Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5  All

Author Topic: RIP Victory Motorcycles  (Read 11603 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

2smoke

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 246

    • CVO1: 2010 Softail Convertible
    • CVO2: 2012 Softail Convertible
Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2017, 03:10:14 PM »

I know exactly how the Victory owners feel. I felt the the same way when HD shuttered Buell. I eventually sold the Buell. Nice bike. I had hopes Victory was going to become the High-performance brand. It seems big, heavy, and slow are what the U.S. manufacturers are sticking with. Marketing the same stuff over and over to a shrinking pool of buyers.
Logged

RGlideKid

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2306
  • Riding Since 1972
    • AR


    • CVO1: 2011 CVO RGU...sold
    • CVO2: 2015 CVO RGU
    • Bull Shoals Photography
Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2017, 03:40:50 PM »

My wife and I test drove a new Vision back in like '09 or '10.  She didn't want any part of it being a die-hard Harley chick, but I wanted to see what it was all about. 
My positive impressions were these:
Slow speed handling was very good, bordering on awesome. 
The center of balance at any speed felt very good, but was especially noticeable at low speeds.
Felt acceleration was very nice, with nice torque.
Feedback through the handlebars was nice, maybe better than most big bikes at that time.
The lack of vibration and the overall smoothness of the ride was nice.

But that's where the good ended.

On the negative side, this is what we felt/thought:
The bike felt and looked very plastic, to the point of feeling and looking cheap.  It made creaking noises as the plastic was torqued while riding.
The looks.  I just didn't care for the ultra clean, spaceship look.  This is a personal taste thing, as I prefer a little "heritage" feel and look to my bikes.  I'm sure some found the looks awesome, though.
The seat was comfy enough for me (considering I put maybe 10 miles on the bike), but my wife disliked the BSR position, especially for the rear-speaker armrests.  She said there was just no way to get comfortable, and I could see that.
I remember thinking that the quality of the plastic/fiberglass wasn't anywhere near up to par with Harley's stuff, and for sure the paint wasn't either.
The sound of the bike, both engine and exhaust was weird, and disappointing.  It sounded...well...kind of cheap.  I've heard Visions since then with aftermarket pipes, and it seems you can't totally get rid of that factory sound.
The stereo was not up to par with the cost of the bike.  (But then neither are the CVO touring bikes either, IMO).

I came away impressed with the handling and engine performance, but the dislikes were way too many for my tastes, but again this is my opinion.  If the other bikes in the V lineup were similar, I can understand poor sales.

Like many of you, I wanted them to do well, if for no other reason than as competition for HD, but now it looks like that torch will be passed along to Indian.  I hope they're up for the challenge.
Logged
Harry
2017 Eureka Springs MITM Ride Chairman
Check out my photo gallery at:  RGlideKid's Galleries at Bull Shoals Photography




2015 CVO RGU with V&H Power Pro Headers & 4" Monster Rounds & HD-SEPST
2007 Bushtec Turbo+2 Trailer

bigsixman

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 165
  • 2003 CVO Deuce FXSTDSE
Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2017, 07:58:53 PM »

I credit Victory with pushing HD to upgrade some of the features that Victory initiated. We might still have 88" twin cam motors with 5 speed transmissions if Victory didn't push the upgraded power trains.
Logged
2003 fxstdse CVO Deuce, 3,700 miles
2007 fxstd Deuce, 18,500 miles
2017 flhx Street Glide, 6,700 miles
Four 60s & 70s Japanese bikes

mark

  • Guest
Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2017, 08:08:01 PM »

Reading some of these comments, such as the demise of Victory will negatively impact Indian, etc., makes me think history should be the lesson here.  Harley wasn't negatively impacted by Buell's death, Chevy didn't suffer when Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Saturn, & Hummer were shuttered.  Same for Chrysler and its loss of Plymouth and Ford's cancellation of Mercury.  If anything, Indian will be stronger, being the only motorcycle line at Polaris.  I'd expect Polaris to use the former Victory factory space for more models, a CVO-like Indian, etc.

Logged

muddypaws

  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5280
  • 2012 FLHTCUS7

    • CVO1: 2005 CVO
    • CVO2: 2009 CVO SEUC
    • CVO3: 2017 CVO LIMITED
    • Re/Max
Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2017, 07:41:30 AM »

Good point Mark...
Logged
Bill

Jbbrown73

  • Elite CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 881
    • IL


    • CVO1: 2015 CVO RG Ultra
    • CVO2: 2002 FLHRSEI (Brandywine)
Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2017, 09:56:20 AM »

I'm saddened by the loss of Victory.  Not that I own one, however I feel competition to Harley is needed.  I believe that Victory and Indians stronger base motor's pushed Harley to develop the M8, which has the edge on the competition now.

I think the nice paint on the Victory Magnums for the past couple years forced HD to offer 3 different flame paint schemes on the Road Glide Special, Street glide special and the King.  The sound system on the Magnum beats HD offerings.

I think Victory folding will hurt Indian.  People well worry it will happen to Indian too.  Indian is also a very good product.  The Head unit on the Chief is really nice.

We need those two companies to make Harley improve their product.  The other brands are not real big competition to HD.

Now I am pushing harder than ever for Indian to become successful. 

I agree completely! Competition drives innovation and value. The Harley brand without Indian, Victory, etc. will result in the same models, features and paint schemes being offered for a decade or longer at a time. The only thing HD will improve is their margin by raising prices year over year. I really hate to see Victory shutting down. I think Victory was on the right track. I really like the new white Magnum X that is out for 2017, and was seriously considering one. I may still be since prices should be getting really right on them. Really just a sad situation for the motorcycle industry as a whole.
Logged
Carterville, (Southern) Illinois (that would be 350 miles south of Chicago)

FXDFSE

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2017, 09:55:13 PM »

I am not surprised with Victory going away.  The motorcycle market is shrinking rapidly.  HD is suffering the same as Polaris.  The baby boomers are not buying bikes anymore and the younger crowd has other choices to spend their descretionary money.  They are also more safety focused than baby boomers, so motorcycling is not high on their bucket list.
Logged

iski

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10252
  • EBCM 007
    • FL


    • CVO1: 2007 FLHTCUSE2 Screamin' Eagle Ultra - Light Candy Cherry and Black Ice - Traded
    • CVO2: 2010 FLHTCUSE5 Screamin' Eagle Ultra - Crimson Mist Black/Dark Slate - Traded
    • CVO3: 2017 FLHTKSE CVO Limited - Black Garnet & Electric Red Pearl w/Carbon Dust
Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2017, 11:36:14 PM »

I am not surprised with Victory going away.  The motorcycle market is shrinking rapidly.  HD is suffering the same as Polaris.  The baby boomers are not buying bikes anymore and the younger crowd has other choices to spend their descretionary money.  They are also more safety focused than baby boomers, so motorcycling is not high on their bucket list.

Yep. The current generation does not have an "Easy Rider" or "Wild Angels" mindset, and those type movies are very dated except to folks old enough to remember like the Boomers. "We wanna’ be free! We wanna’ be free to do what we wanna’ do. We wanna’ be free to ride. We wanna’ be free to ride our machines without being hassled by The Man!" created a generation of wannabe bikers that became real bikers. Bikes had an image of the Free Spirit of the Open Road for a lot of people.  Still lots of riders today with that mindset, more or less, but they are getting older fast.  "Ghost Rider" ain't the same thing, not even close.  Most of the guys I started riding with dreamed of jumping fences on a bike like Steve McQueen. Some of us tried it, with varied results. Tough to try to convey a feeling like that using just advertising. They don't make movies like they used to.

Victory failing is similar to the brands that failed in Mark's post above.  Polaris sees Indian as the future and was obvious they were not putting resources into the Victory line a good while ago. Doubt there will be nostalgia for the old Victorys in future years like there is for some of the old  Pontiacs though.

Will be interesting to see what Indian's future sales numbers do, if they will be more than Indian + Victory. Victory going away is an advantage to the MoCo as I see it.
Logged
"I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability." ~ RW

Harley Guy

  • Elite CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 747
  • RIDE ON ...............
    • OH


    • CVO1: 2009 CVO Ultra Classic.... Ruby - sold
    • CVO2: 2015 CVO Limited........... Dirty Blonde
Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2017, 11:54:16 PM »

I have seen these for $17,000 prior to yesterday's announcement certainly cheaper than a street glide.
d

Good looking bike
Logged

porthole

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10767
  • Welcome to the Machine

    • CVO1: 2005.3217-45 FLHTCSE2
    • Porthole II
Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2017, 07:57:10 AM »

Somehow I don't see Indians getting red and blue lights, radios, sirens and saddlebag mounted M4's  :nixweiss:
Logged
:fireman: Duane  :fireman:


MV 2013

1982 LowRider * 1974 XLCH * 1972 Adnoh
You can't control the weather, only how you deal with it

porthole

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10767
  • Welcome to the Machine

    • CVO1: 2005.3217-45 FLHTCSE2
    • Porthole II
Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2017, 08:38:49 AM »

.
Logged
:fireman: Duane  :fireman:


MV 2013

1982 LowRider * 1974 XLCH * 1972 Adnoh
You can't control the weather, only how you deal with it

iski

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10252
  • EBCM 007
    • FL


    • CVO1: 2007 FLHTCUSE2 Screamin' Eagle Ultra - Light Candy Cherry and Black Ice - Traded
    • CVO2: 2010 FLHTCUSE5 Screamin' Eagle Ultra - Crimson Mist Black/Dark Slate - Traded
    • CVO3: 2017 FLHTKSE CVO Limited - Black Garnet & Electric Red Pearl w/Carbon Dust
Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2017, 08:48:29 AM »

Somehow I don't see Indians getting red and blue lights, radios, sirens and saddlebag mounted M4's  :nixweiss:

It has been more than a few years.

Logged
"I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability." ~ RW

iski

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10252
  • EBCM 007
    • FL


    • CVO1: 2007 FLHTCUSE2 Screamin' Eagle Ultra - Light Candy Cherry and Black Ice - Traded
    • CVO2: 2010 FLHTCUSE5 Screamin' Eagle Ultra - Crimson Mist Black/Dark Slate - Traded
    • CVO3: 2017 FLHTKSE CVO Limited - Black Garnet & Electric Red Pearl w/Carbon Dust
Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2017, 09:00:22 AM »

http://m.startribune.com/lee-schafer-indian-shows-the-power-of-a-brand/410334875/

"Polaris told investors who it was going after with its Indian Motorcycle acquisition in April 2011, flashing up a simple pie chart that showed those 39 percent of heavyweight motorcycle buyers that Polaris simply called “the die hards.”

That opportunity dwarfed the “performance enthusiast” segment it was targeting with its home-brewed Victory brand, first sold in 1998. Well, those Victory customers are on their own, as Polaris said this week it will wind down its Victory brand and put all of its attention on Indian.

So Indian Motorcycles are a big success after six years in the hands of Medina-based Polaris even as Victory goes out of business — and both were designed and built by the same company. So maybe what’s turned out to be a die hard is the Indian brand itself.

There may be no better example here in the Twin Cities of why shrewd executives breathe life into a brand that has proved to be impossible to kill rather than risk launching a new one.

There was a time when marketers didn’t quite grasp how brands could have value apart from the products themselves or the companies that produced them, according to George John, marketing professor at the Carlson School of Management at the University of Minnesota.

Some of that brand value comes from nostalgia, often leading to products getting relaunched, John said. Yet it also can work to introduce an older brand in a new market segment if consumers hear it and think cutting-edge technology or some other desirable attribute.

“The third thing, which we kind of underplay, is sheer name recognition,” John said. “Name recognition has a huge impact, on not only our knowledge of it, but our willingness to buy the story they are selling.”

And it matters how the consumer learned the name too, said Dan Wallace, a Twin Cities speaker and co-author of “The Physics of Brand.” Before Polaris acquired the business it had been nearly 60 years since the Indian name had last been associated with a significant motorcycle manufacturer, yet Wallace keeps an Indian Motorcycle magnet on his refrigerator.

He has never even been on an Indian Motorcycle, but his grandfather in 1917 rode an Indian motorcycle out of a rural backwater in Michigan and parked it in front of the Ypsilanti house of a young woman who later married him. “That’s a powerful story,” Wallace said. “I didn’t learn about [Indian] through an ad.”

Indian got its iconic status through the original Indian Motorcycle Manufacturing Co., which created enduringly popular products like its Scout and Chief cycles at its home in Massachusetts. Indian at one time was a rival of the likes of Harley-Davidson, yet a series of missteps brought the company down. It last built bikes in 1953.

Right away entrepreneurs thought of making money with the Indian brand. What followed was what one writer called a nearly 60-year period of “dreamers, money-grubbers and bad-luckers that … attempted stewardship of the Indian name.”

One of the entrepreneurs selling the dream of reviving Indian was Philip Zanghi II, whom law enforcement authorities later concluded had collected more than $800,000 from investors only to sell a few Indian T-shirts. “Maybe I’m a con man,” Zanghi told the jury in his closing arguments at his 1997 trial for fraud, acting as his own attorney. “Maybe I’m a promoter. But I brought the Indian trademark back.” The jury spent less than three hours concluding he was, indeed, a con man.

cont.
 
 
 
 
Logged
"I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability." ~ RW

iski

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10252
  • EBCM 007
    • FL


    • CVO1: 2007 FLHTCUSE2 Screamin' Eagle Ultra - Light Candy Cherry and Black Ice - Traded
    • CVO2: 2010 FLHTCUSE5 Screamin' Eagle Ultra - Crimson Mist Black/Dark Slate - Traded
    • CVO3: 2017 FLHTKSE CVO Limited - Black Garnet & Electric Red Pearl w/Carbon Dust
Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2017, 09:01:34 AM »

There was later a legitimate effort to build Indian cycles in California, and after yet another failure, in 2006 private equity investors decided to give it a try in North Carolina. That was the operation Polaris acquired, although it didn’t take long for Polaris to move assembly operations to Polaris facilities in Iowa.

The business Polaris acquired had booked about $11 million in annual revenue, and Polaris said from the beginning that it would take time to design and launch new products and only then would sales grow.

Polaris had a better chance to succeed reviving Indian than the other companies that had tried and failed because it wasn’t anything like them. They had barriers to entry Polaris could easily manage, with a big and sophisticated organization to efficiently design and build off-road vehicles and relationships with dealers who could sell them. That’s also what set Polaris apart from another Minnesota effort to relaunch an old motorcycle brand, the short-lived Excelsior-Henderson Motorcycle Manufacturing Co. of the 1990s.

What Polaris did not have in the 1990s, when it wanted to jump into the motorcycle market, was a proven motorcycle brand. That was a barrier, too, and it decided to risk creating its own. Sales of Victory came to not quite $10 million the year it launched, in 1998.

It’s not fair to call Victory a flop for Polaris, because its products generated good reviews. Yet even at the time of the Indian acquisition in 2011, then more than a dozen years into the Victory venture, Polaris CEO Scott Wine complained to investors that Polaris didn’t have nearly enough motorcycle dealer representation in the biggest metro areas. In fact he was hoping the Indian brand would help attract more and better dealers.

Now, nearly six years later, the Indian relaunch has gone so well that Harley-Davidson investors consider Indian a real threat. The surging popularity of Indian boosted sales of motorcycles and related accessories from about 7 percent of Polaris’ revenue in 2013 to 18 percent for the first three quarters of 2016.

There weren’t enough Victory cycles sold to produce a profit in three out of the last five years, according to a company spokesperson. Of about $700 million in motorcycle segment sales for 2015, only about $140 million were Victory models.

Polaris will incur costs winding down Victory, yet a spokesperson indicated there will be no job losses other than a cutback of temporary workers and some unfilled vacancies, as other staff will be reassigned to the growing Indian business. All of which suggests that while the Victory motorcycle quietly dies, the iconic American brand of Indian Motorcycle is more alive than ever."

___________________________________________________________________________________

Interesting read on why Polaris dropped Victory to concentrate on Indian.  In a way is similar to the old 80/20 rule of business.  Concentrate your strengths, minimize your weaknesses.
Logged
"I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability." ~ RW

Rooster

  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5180
  • FLhtcuse2.ORG
Re: RIP Victory Motorcycles
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2017, 02:02:50 PM »

The young kids want high tech and fast driftin import cars with all the technical gadgets in them,and jacked up powerplants. They don't care much bout Motorcycles except super fast crotch rockets.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5  All
 

Page created in 0.204 seconds with 21 queries.