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[spook120]

So decided to build my 17 CVO into a stage 4 motor...but will install a stage 3 cam!  I seldom ride above the 4500 RPM range with an occasional run up to 5500.  Can't remember when a HD of mine has seen anything past that.  So with some consultation with the wrench doing the build we are going to experiment a bit and see if we can increase the torque between 2000-4500.  If it doesn't pan out, then the stage 4 cam will be substituted as I will have adjustable tapered pushrods in this build. Exhaust will be Fullsac 2.5 cores in the original mufflers with either a jackpot or fullsac head pipe... depending on availability.  I will let the board know how it works out in the next few weeks.  Any thoughts??

[FLSTFI Dave]

I think it may be better for how I ride then the stage 4 cam.  I just do not like moving the torque curve so far to the right like the full stage 4 does.

I like torque curve that comes on earlier and is flatter.  It will be very interesting to see your results.

[SDCVO]

Make sure you discuss with your dealer keeping it under full warranty if you change the stage 4. Might want to get something in writing from them if they say they will cover in case whoever tells you that is not there down the road when you might need it.

[spook120]

Thanks for the reply.  Already discussed, we will be using all HD internals, just stepping down a cam size to maximize torque in the RPM range that I ride.  It would void warranty at this dealer if I used an after market cam.  Exhaust is ok, aftermarket can is not. 

[CVOSGJoe]

What tune are you going to use?  Screamin Eagle Street Tuner does not have that combo nor are there any plans to build a map for it.  Myself and my local dealer called HD and told that using this cam with the Stage IV build is not recommended by HD and the bike will not run correctly.

[spook120]

Going to be using the TTS tuner. Believe me the bike won't leave the dealership unless it is running the way I want it.  Worse case scenario I go to the Stage 4 cam, that is why I am using adjustable pushrods so a cam swap is not that big of a deal.  The mechanic who is building the bike knows his stuff, and I trust his abilities.  So I guess we will see where this adventure takes me.  The wrench, when questioned about the relationship between heads, cam, throttle body, was confident that this combination would bring the torque curve to where I want it and that the throttle response with the 64mm throttle body should be great....(sound like Trump...ugh) Anyway, time will tell.  Thanks for your input.

[SDCVO]

Going to be using the TTS tuner. Believe me the bike won't leave the dealership unless it is running the way I want it.  Worse case scenario I go to the Stage 4 cam, that is why I am using adjustable pushrods so a cam swap is not that big of a deal.  The mechanic who is building the bike knows his stuff, and I trust his abilities.  So I guess we will see where this adventure takes me.  The wrench, when questioned about the relationship between heads, cam, throttle body, was confident that this combination would bring the torque curve to where I want it and that the throttle response with the 64mm throttle body should be great....(sound like Trump...ugh) Anyway, time will tell.  Thanks for your input.

Sounds like you got this all dialed in, look forward to reading your report once you get some miles on it.

[spook120]

Ok guys, got the preliminary results from my stage 4 build using a stage 3 cam.  I have the heavy breather (which barely fits with the lowers!), jack pot head pipe,  2 inch fullsac baffles.  The bike turned a 125.6 HP and a 128.6 torque.  At 2200 RPM it has 100.6 FT Lbs with a torque peak at 3800 of 128.6 and carries over a 120 ft.lbs from 3000 to 5300 RPM. The torque curve is smooth with no dip.  I have no clue how to post dyno sheets and such...sorry. The bike was tuned with a TTS system.  The bike sounds good, haven't really had time to ride it yet but will let you know what I think when I do so.  All results are from a superflow dyno and are SAE corrected at the rear wheel.  Not sure what that means but sounds good....Anyway, just an update for now.  Thanks.

[JCZ]

Look forward to seeing the dyno sheet on this build as well as your report over the next year or two (longevity).  Thanks a bunch for stepping out there and taking the risk.  If it's not a successful build, you can always change the cam and retune.

For those of us that had the performance motors built for the past few decades, we all know that for a Harley, the higher rpms, the greater the chances of weeps, seeps and leaks.  Just kind of goes with the territory. 

Do you do much touring riding?  Just wondering how this kind of build will last when riding hundreds of miles in a day.....day after day.

[FlaHeatWave]

Wondering if 1.75 Baffels would bring in more TQ earlier???

[spook120]

Not sure about the baffle size, just went with what Steve suggested.  As far as touring, this is my local run around bike as I tour on my GSA BMW.... go figure.  I just feel more comfortable having an "ugly" GSA sitting around at night than a 40K HD!  Anyway, as I said I have no idea how to post anything.  The dyno sheet is rather blah, just a couple of lines on the paper which to me mean sqwat.  As far as longevity...hey its a Harley...and most likely will be traded or sold long before the odometer reaches 15K.  So as soon as the weather cooperates in the great white north I will put on some miles and let the board know what I think.  I suspect it will be ok, nothing great or earth shattering but will work for the kind of riding I do on this type of bike.  Will it be as fun as my 120 T-man build...probably not, but hopefully it will have enough reliability to get me home the majority of the times I take it out.  Something I couldn't say about the 120..as that bike I started in the garage and turned off in the garage after it left me sit 5 different times merrily eating starters...ugh.  Thanks for the replies.

[skratch]

Thanks for the reply.  Already discussed, we will be using all HD internals, just stepping down a cam size to maximize torque in the RPM range that I ride.  It would void warranty at this dealer if I used an after market cam.  Exhaust is ok, aftermarket can is not.

not sure why you're worried about using hd internals iot keep warranty intact.  by tuning with the tts, you just voided it anyways.

your dyno results sound like a ton of fun.  enjoy   

[spook120]

MY dealer will still warranty his work no matter what tuner is used. But they won't if any non HD internals are used.

[Fullsac Performance]

not sure why you're worried about using hd internals iot keep warranty intact.  by tuning with the tts, you just voided it anyways.

your dyno results sound like a ton of fun.  enjoy   

The dealer who got the money in his pocket will not void the warranty. They know how to play the warranty game better than anybody, they have doing it the longest. Worse case scenario, the engine crunches up some parts. It takes about 5 minutes to remove the TTS tune and return the ECM to stock with out leaving a trace. The non cat headpipe about an hour. Non compliant internal parts? You would have a better chance covering up Rosey O'Donell.

Steve@fullsac.com

[spook120]

What he said!