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[johnsachs]

I personally try to stay away from beehive springs of any brand. If a beehive spring breaks ,usually the sh*t hits the fan. I've seen just about every brand of beehive fail/break.
Over-revs, poor riding habits, etc. can lead to catastrophic failure even on properly set up spring pacs.
John
This was from a low mileage 2014 103" engine. Want more, I got therm.

[grc]

Ok guys, I'm all questions on this one.

How do you know if the lifters are about to fail?  Can you inspect them somehow?  Do they start making some sort of noise?  How did the dealer determine they are needing to be replaced?  I wonder if replacement would be covered under Cornerstone ESP before they fail or if they won't do anything until catastrophe strikes?

My 15 has some miles on it and I'm starting to worry....

Unfortunately, you won't always get much if any advance warning before a roller fails.  A chirping or squealing sound due to a roller sliding rather than rolling may be your only clue, shortly before total failure.  Many people with Twin Cam 110's have just chosen to proactively change lifters on a set schedule, say 10k or 20k miles.  As for ESP, none that I'm aware of pay to replace components that haven't actually failed.  While it may seem shortsighted to not pay to change a $200 set of lifters in an engine that has a serious history of roller failures until they fail, resulting in thousands of dollars in repair costs, that's the way Harley handles these things under warranty and how the ESP folks handle it as well.  Common sense seldom enters into the equation.

Jerry

[csgohn]

My are squealing and was getting louder. All the dealer did was listen they said they hear this all the time on 110s. It sounds like a a/c belt loose on a 84 buick.

[bad00serg]

Is this squealing evident at idle?  Or only at higher RPMs while riding?

[hd-dude]

When the lifter rollers fail they skate across the cam shaft and develop flat spots. They will typically chirp while skating then make a clank when the rollers eventually turn from the friction. The noise they make is typically erratic and random. It's hard to describe but very easy to diagnose to a compentant mechanic. I knew Marty's had failed with 30 seconds of listening to his motor.

[ultrafxr]

When the lifter rollers fail they skate across the cam shaft and develop flat spots. They will typically chirp while skating then make a clank when the rollers eventually turn from the friction. The noise they make is typically erratic and random. It's hard to describe but very easy to diagnose to a compentant mechanic. I knew Marty's had failed with 30 seconds of listening to his motor.

What Jim said.  Having lost three 110 motors due to failed lifters I'll add this:  the first sign I had that a lifter was failing was what I thought at the time was an intermittent misfire.  What was happening is that the roller's flat spot was on the cam it was enough to cause the valve to not open completely.  Hence a I thought was a misfire.  As Jim said when the roller began rolling again then all was OK for a while.

[csgohn]

Yes the sqealing is very loud at low idle when its hot. It goes away after 2500 rpms.

[grc]

Yes the sqealing is very loud at low idle when its hot. It goes away after 2500 rpms.

Either shut it down and leave it off until it's diagnosed properly and repaired, or be prepared to do some walking in the near future.  If you just keep waiting until it fails completely, you will be in for a rude surprise at how much it costs to repair the damage. 

JMHO - Jerry

[TNCarters]

My 2015 CVO RGU just turned over 22k as it was going out of factory warranty.  I decided to make a proactive strike and replaced lifters with S&S premiums.  Cant say valve train is any quieter but I feel better about one less component that could soon fail and take out the engine.  BTW the lifters and what could be seen of the cam lobe looked fine.  Some very minor surface wear that could not be felt.

I bought the S&S lifters through my HD dealer and thought it was interesting the parts counter person just smiled as they placed the order without making any comment about the HD lifters.  It was obvious they did not care for the HD lifters either.

[hd-dude]

Yes the sqealing is very loud at low idle when its hot. It goes away after 2500 rpms.

If its making that much noise its already too late. In the latest case there is metal throughout the engine. A total rebuild is in order as all the bearings are compromised.

[zigzag930]

I wonder if anyone has approached the ESP companies with this issue.  I understand how they work, but it's crazy to think they wouldn't want to approve an inspection (at minimum) if not replacement on motors that are known to have this issue - particularly those that have some milage on them.

To me, it would be good "insurance" on their part to just pay for replacement (at $300) now, rather than full engine rebuild @ what 3K+? when the motor self destructs.

I have over 4 years left on my ESP, so as long as it's a covered failure - I'll just wait and see.  Seems like the options comes down to 1) me paying for the replacement now at my cost and still having all the mileage on my engine or 2) waiting for them to fail and getting the entire motor rebuilt, having 0 miles SMOH and probably getting a bunch of upgraded components for no extra cost.

Glad I'm not the insurance company on this one.

[J.D.]

Unless the MoCo has "replace lifters every 10,000 miles" in the original owners manual maintenance schedule it isn't happening.

[mark]

I wonder if anyone has approached the ESP companies with this issue.  I understand how they work, but it's crazy to think they wouldn't want to approve an inspection (at minimum) if not replacement on motors that are known to have this issue - particularly those that have some milage on them.

To me, it would be good "insurance" on their part to just pay for replacement (at $300) now, rather than full engine rebuild @ what 3K+? when the motor self destructs.

I have over 4 years left on my ESP, so as long as it's a covered failure - I'll just wait and see.  Seems like the options comes down to 1) me paying for the replacement now at my cost and still having all the mileage on my engine or 2) waiting for them to fail and getting the entire motor rebuilt, having 0 miles SMOH and probably getting a bunch of upgraded components for no extra cost.

Glad I'm not the insurance company on this one.

Trust me, the ESP folks have worked the math on this and they've taken the route that's the most financially advantageous to them.  Replacing every 110 lifter that hasn't failed, as a preventative measure, would cost much more than repairing the bikes that experience failed lifters.

[ultrafxr]

Photos of some failed lifters:

2007 CVO Ultra with about 45k on it's second motor:



2012 CVO Ultra with about 22k on it's original motor:



Second motor or the 2012 failed at about 46k on it.  Kinda like Marty's (110 mofo) above.  Lifter was damaged but nothing broken.  It was making a heck of a chirpping noise though.  I shut it down immediately but as Jim said enough metal had gotten into the lubricating system that the bearings were compromised.  ESP did a total rebuild including flywheel but I never got it back.  Traded it on my 2017 CVO Limited after ESP approved the repairs.  Darn shame that these problems seem to be inherent in the TCs - most especially the 110" variety.  Hoping the M8s are more durable.  Time will tell.

[decafian]

My 2015 st/glyde lifter has failed just 10 weeks out of warranty with HD refusing any good will gesture.Has this become a common fault?