Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Unbalanced]

Well let's see where do I begin,

The bike is going back into the shop on monday for 4 things now.

1.  rear cylinder leaking again at the base
2.  heated hand grips
3.  pinion is chewed up on the starter
4.  compression releases arent working   230 no relief.   

going to ask for new juggs since this is the 2nd time this has happened.  I figure the juggs can't be level.

[Deuces_Wild]

Harry,

  Thats one of the inherent problems with the 110's.  I have heard many with the rear cylinder problem as you have. From what I have read it's a number of thing that together create the problem.  Harley has been replacing these 110's by the hundreds and have new motors ready to go for replacements.  What color was your orginal head badge.  Silver or Black?

Give me a call and I'll tell you How to fix it!

Tony

[Unbalanced]

Tony,

My badges were silver.

I will try and give ya a call over the weekend Tony.

-harry

[Deuce Bigelow]

what significance is the color of the head badge?

just curious....

[Chief]

Well let's see where do I begin,

The bike is going back into the shop on monday for 4 things now.

1.  rear cylinder leaking again at the base
2.  heated hand grips
3.  pinion is chewed up on the starter
4.  compression releases arent working   230 no relief.   

going to ask for new juggs since this is the 2nd time this has happened.  I figure the juggs can't be level.

Min'es going back in on Monday for problems 1 & 4 above. Rear ACR works, front ACR is non functional.

[skreminegul07]

Harry,

  Thats one of the inherent problems with the 110's.  I have heard many with the rear cylinder problem as you have. From what I have read it's a number of thing that together create the problem.  Harley has been replacing these 110's by the hundreds and have new motors ready to go for replacements.  What color was your orginal head badge.  Silver or Black?

Give me a call and I'll tell you How to fix it!

Tony

Mine is scheduled for the rear cylinder as well.  It had silver badges and was built in August of '06.  The parts just came in.  Can you please include me in the fix?  Can I call you? I'd like a new motor at this point.  And I have a transmission lead as well.
Thanks

PS, my previous bike was a 2000 Deuce with a custome paint job I did and it was called Deuces Wild. Good taste.

[miker]

Gawd dammit, what a pain in the kiwi's!  Mine had silver badges, I changed them to black, will that help?
Sorry for your problems with the bike...What is your backup bike?

Miker

[skreminegul07]

Gawd dammit, what a pain in the kiwi's!  Mine had silver badges, I changed them to black, will that help?
Sorry for your problems with the bike...What is your backup bike?

Miker

Just an indication of an early motor.

[miker]

I was bull chite'en about the badges Gull...I picked up my 07 serk 09.07.

Were the bikes ridden in a stock configuration or modified upon delivery...
Harry, you turned me onto Stormy Hill for mine and so far so good.  Sorry about yours guys.

Miker

[Unbalanced]

Miker,

Mines stock for now HD SE 255 chain cam is in the bike  

The problem isnt that the work has to be done really its not its the hassle associated with it.   This is the 3rd base gasket on the rear cylinder.   Looks like they are going to replace the rear cylinder or order the cylinder on Monday.

The compression releases seems that there may be a tech article about it, the service manager at Stormy (Dave) great guy didn't quite remember off the top of his head how it went.   so I asked Seminole to look it up for me.   It maybe as simple as putting in the base map again and then doing the 4.62 map upgrade to it or maybe it is something else

The ring gear is because the releases arent working its banging back on the ring gear and chewed the pinion up pretty good.   They will have to take off the primary to have a good look at it and to make sure no teeth broke.

The heated handgrips well they are what they are.

Also having them fix the fuel gauge, when the light comes on I am at 2 gallons left in the tank at empty I still have a gallon in the tank /dohhh   It is more of a nuissance than anything else.

All in all the dealer is taking care of it all no hassles no fuss, so while I am away on business first of the week they will tear into it.

Seminole has been great to me, the service manager Tom and Lead tech Jim are easy for me to work with and the bonus is they are only 6 miles away.   

Miker Stormy is 61 miles away, but also great people and easy to deal with as you were able to find out.   Dave the service manager, Darryl the lead tech and Chip the GM all great people.

[miker]

Miker,

Mines stock for now HD SE 255 chain cam is in the bike  

The problem isnt that the work has to be done really its not its the hassle associated with it.   This is the 3rd base gasket on the rear cylinder.   Looks like they are going to replace the rear cylinder or order the cylinder on Monday.

The compression releases seems that there may be a tech article about it, the service manager at Stormy (Dave) great guy didn't quite remember off the top of his head how it went.   so I asked Seminole to look it up for me.   It maybe as simple as putting in the base map again and then doing the 4.62 map upgrade to it or maybe it is something else



The ring gear is because the releases arent working its banging back on the ring gear and chewed the pinion up pretty good.   They will have to take off the primary to have a good look at it and to make sure no teeth broke.

The heated handgrips well they are what they are.

Also having them fix the fuel gauge, when the light comes on I am at 2 gallons left in the tank at empty I still have a gallon in the tank /dohhh   It is more of a nuissance than anything else.

All in all the dealer is taking care of it all no hassles no fuss, so while I am away on business first of the week they will tear into it.

Seminole has been great to me, the service manager Tom and Lead tech Jim are easy for me to work with and the bonus is they are only 6 miles away.   

Miker Stormy is 61 miles away, but also great people and easy to deal with as you were able to find out.   Dave the service manager, Darryl the lead tech and Chip the GM all great people.

Yup they are, around 380 miles round trip for me plus $50 in tolls!  That speaks for my local shop huh?..

[Unbalanced]

Good news the dealer has the starter pieces, and the cylinders are in the distribution warehouse.   Only thing left now is to diagnose the compression releases and check the ring gear.

[Hoist!]

Good news the dealer has the starter pieces, and the cylinders are in the distribution warehouse.   Only thing left now is to diagnose the compression releases and check the ring gear.

They're rebuilding your starter and not getting you a new one. You can't just replace the pinion gear like the earlier ones. You have to take the starter apart to change it, as I've been told it's a 1-piece unit. Why won't they just get you a new one. Or a chrome one for the extra 100 bucks! Hoist!

[Unbalanced]

Howie,

Not sure they say the pieces I need are sold as an assembly and they have them in stock to fix it.   part number 31633-07    While they do that they said they would check the ring gear.   

[djkak]

They're rebuilding your starter and not getting you a new one. You can't just replace the pinion gear like the earlier ones. You have to take the starter apart to change it, as I've been told it's a 1-piece unit. Why won't they just get you a new one. Or a chrome one for the extra 100 bucks! Hoist!

The current starter’s basic design goes back to 1989 and is completely rebuildable. The pinion gear runs $30 and the starter clutch (drive; bendix; whatever you want to call it) can be had for $80; the pinion & clutch assembly (31633-07) runs $113.

It is my sense that if a Dealer were to submit a claim for an entire starter and clutch shell with ring gear, Milwaukee would either deny the starter, or if the claim went through there would be a high possibility of a chargeback when the starter was inspected after callback.

Hoist, I recall you saying that your Dealer gave you credit for a complete starter assembly on a chrome high output unit. I believe that on a still evening if you open your windows and are very quiet, you can hear your Dealer eating what’s left of your original starter; at least that’s what I think that sound is.

That was good of your Dealer to do that; I’ll bet that they were not fully compensated for the starter, if they were paid at all. The Dealer more than likely had to disassemble the starter and submit a claim for the pinion gear and starter drive; JMHO.

djkak

[SBB]

The current starter’s basic design goes back to 1989 and is completely rebuildable. The pinion gear runs $30 and the starter clutch (drive; bendix; whatever you want to call it) can be had for $80; the pinion & clutch assembly (31633-07) runs $113.

It is my sense that if a Dealer were to submit a claim for an entire starter and clutch shell with ring gear, Milwaukee would either deny the starter, or if the claim went through there would be a high possibility of a chargeback when the starter was inspected after callback.

Hoist, I recall you saying that your Dealer gave you credit for a complete starter assembly on a chrome high output unit. I believe that on a still evening if you open your windows and are very quiet, you can hear your Dealer eating what’s left of your original starter; at least that’s what I think that sound is.

That was good of your Dealer to do that; I’ll bet that they were not fully compensated for the starter, if they were paid at all. The Dealer more than likely had to disassemble the starter and submit a claim for the pinion gear and starter drive; JMHO.

djkak

Hoist

Kinda hard to argue with the above logic!
BUT I'm sure you will!

 

[evilroadking]

Just curious, is anyone having problems after the MoCo install's new 110" replacements?

[skreminegul07]

my FLHRSE3 is going in for the third fix on base gasket on rear cylinder in 1k miles.

i first noticed it on the left rear ....but has appeared in other places since then.0


TN


i have a street glide for a week.

They will no doubt replace the rear cylinder.  THe cylinders are not the right shape (round) and or flat when torqued.  They may plane the rear head.  Have them do both.

[Chief]

my FLHRSE3 is going in for the third fix on base gasket on rear cylinder in 1k miles.

i first noticed it on the left rear ....but has appeared in other places since then.0


TN


i have a street glide for a week.

TNFB,

Please keep us posted on what they do for the base leak. Mine is in for fix #2 for base o-ring today. Also getting the front compression release fixed.

[Chief]

I just spoke to the SM regarding my bike in for one non-functioning ACR and cylinder base oil leak. He told me that both ACRs are out and his DT is locking up when he runs the ACR diagnostics. He's calling HD to see what they say. I wonder if they'll point their finger at the PC and say that is what is causing the problem?

He will also speak with them to see about replacing the cylinder as an attempt to correct the cylinder base oil leak.

More to come later, I'm sure.

[Hoist!]

I just spoke to the SM regarding my bike in for one non-functioning ACR and cylinder base oil leak. He told me that both ACRs are out and his DT is locking up when he runs the ACR diagnostics. He's calling HD to see what they say. I wonder if they'll point their finger at the PC and say that is what is causing the problem?

He will also speak with them to see about replacing the cylinder as an attempt to correct the cylinder base oil leak.

More to come later, I'm sure.

The DT went wireless this year, and is plagued with problems. It connects to the bike and starts reading your info, shows codes, and seems to work. But when you try the diagnostic mode, it crashes the computer and you need to reboot everything. Until they get their issues fixed, they should go back to the plug-in. Right now, the dealers can't diagnose things with the DT. They might not even know this is a system problem yet! Hoist!

[miker]

The DT went wireless this year, and is plagued with problems. It connects to the bike and starts reading your info, shows codes, and seems to work. But when you try the diagnostic mode, it crashes the computer and you need to reboot everything. Until they get their issues fixed, they should go back to the plug-in. Right now, the dealers can't diagnose things with the DT. They might not even know this is a system problem yet! Hoist!

Great googly moogly!  I sure would like to hear about something gettin done right by someone, anyone.....


Miker

[Chief]

The DT went wireless this year, and is plagued with problems. It connects to the bike and starts reading your info, shows codes, and seems to work. But when you try the diagnostic mode, it crashes the computer and you need to reboot everything. Until they get their issues fixed, they should go back to the plug-in. Right now, the dealers can't diagnose things with the DT. They might not even know this is a system problem yet! Hoist!

Interesting. I don't know which one they're using.

[blowncobra]

Technology sure has it's price HUH? seems more and more us consumers end up being the final test bed for the engineering department, both in product and in service???



I find that the manufacturers are quick to blame modifications and aftermarket stuff with no basis or facts to back it up, usually someone will take them to the carpet on it and get there attention.

Good luck

[Chief]

UPDATE:

Bike is at dealer waiting on new rear cylinder. The problem with the non-functioning ACRs could not be adequately diagnosed with the DT, so that's on hold. We'll be out of town Thurs thru Sun, so leaving the bike is no problem. SM is really working with me and is so pissed, he's fit to be tied. He has three bikes in the shop right now with ACR problems. Evidently, troubleshooting them is a pita.

I'll know more next week when we return.

[Unbalanced]

Chief,

My bike is in the same quandary as your bike.   They have been looking at the ACR's since last night and have no definitive answer yet.   They have been talking to tech services, but there is a flow chart they must follow to get any help from Harley and it is quite frustrating.

They will be replacing the rear cylinder, the starter pinion assembly, the clutch basket / ring gear.

All the work is being held up by the ACR as they don't want to replace this stuff and then have to worry about it ruining the pinion / ring gear all over.

Hopefully they will have an answer by the end of the day.

[Chief]

Chief,

My bike is in the same quandary as your bike.   They have been looking at the ACR's since last night and have no definitive answer yet.   They have been talking to tech services, but there is a flow chart they must follow to get any help from Harley and it is quite frustrating.

They will be replacing the rear cylinder, the starter pinion assembly, the clutch basket / ring gear.

All the work is being held up by the ACR as they don't want to replace this stuff and then have to worry about it ruining the pinion / ring gear all over.

Hopefully they will have an answer by the end of the day.

Harry,

Post the results. Since there are three bikes in with ACR probs, my bike is waiting until they can get the whole ACR system logic figured out. Since I'm waiting on a cylinder, they're not working my ACR problem. Hopefully they'll learn the system on the other bikes and then use that knowledge to fix mine.

I don't expect to hear anything until next week which is OK for me as I won't need the bike before then.

[Gunn Runner]

same thing here....#3,901 April 27th....received bike May 25th......June 11th Rinehardts, BAK, Race Tuner and Dyno....now have slight oil leak on back cylinder.  HD replacing the jugs under warranty?

[Unbalanced]

Well the reasoning differs on the cylinder replacement depending on who seems to tell the story.   I am trying to get a clear and consice answer.   In some cases it is porosity and in others its related to the spicket.   I will try and get a better answer when they are done with the bike.   I asked the tech if it could be because the juggs were not sitting flush and he said that support said this was not the case.  /shrug I will try and find out more when they are done with mine.

[Chief]

same thing here....#3,901 April 27th....received bike May 25th......June 11th Rinehardts, BAK, Race Tuner and Dyno....now have slight oil leak on back cylinder.  HD replacing the jugs under warranty?

There are two different places owners have been experiencing leaks. One is at the head gasket and that problem seems to be well controlled by installing a revised gasket. The other leadk is at the base of the cylinder. The first fix will most likely be new o-rings. If that doesn't stop it, as in my case, the dealer decided to order a new cylinder.

As Unbalanced said, nothing official has come out of Milwaukee addressing these issues and it seems it is being left up to the dealers to devise their own plan of atack. Hopefully, something will come from Milwaukee, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Unbalanced]

an update on the rear cylinder woes,

Ok here is what they found.   The base gasket is not the issue, the head gasket is the issue even though the leak shows itself at the base of the rear cylinder.   The head gasket is not stopping the oil from going down the cylinder stud holes which is where the oil is going and then leaking out on the back side of the motor.  When they removed my rear head the oil went EVERYWHERE.   As well when they moved the cylinder the remaining oil came out there as well.   I have a nice pool of oil infront of the chrome trans cover.

Rear head will need to cleaned up, the combustion area had a lot of oil baked / burned in there leaving a wonderful crust.   I am going to try and get pictures tomorrow if at all possible.

Harley is replacing only the rear cylinder, and the dealer says I need new rings again.   The rings 22285-07 are on national back order  until Aug 31 and they will not pull them off the assembly line.   Luckily I found a set and had them red labeled to the dealer.   The ACR for the front cylinder, and the rear replacement cylinder are also being red labeled to the dealer.   

My front compression release is bad.   They have the parts necessary to rebuild the starter / pinion.

Hopefully everything gets here tomorrow and they can get it back together by the end of the day /fingers crossed.

Cranking compression was 230 with the rear ACR working it was 170

Ring gear was not damaged / marred at all.

If your getting a new rear cylinder I recommend that you quickly find rings.   

[SBB]

an update on the rear cylinder woes,

Ok here is what they found.   The base gasket is not the issue, the head gasket is the issue even though the leak shows itself at the base of the rear cylinder.   The head gasket is not stopping the oil from going down the cylinder stud holes which is where the oil is going and then leaking out on the back side of the motor.  When they removed my rear head the oil went EVERYWHERE.   As well when they moved the cylinder the remaining oil came out there as well.   I have a nice pool of oil infront of the chrome trans cover.

Rear head will need to cleaned up, the combustion area had a lot of oil baked / burned in there leaving a wonderful crust.   I am going to try and get pictures tomorrow if at all possible.

Harley is replacing only the rear cylinder, and the dealer says I need new rings again.   The rings 22285-07 are on national back order  until Aug 31 and they will not pull them off the assembly line.   Luckily I found a set and had them red labeled to the dealer.   The ACR for the front cylinder, and the rear replacement cylinder are also being red labeled to the dealer.   

My front compression release is bad.   They have the parts necessary to rebuild the starter / pinion.

Hopefully everything gets here tomorrow and they can get it back together by the end of the day /fingers crossed.

Cranking compression was 230 with the rear ACR working it was 170

Ring gear was not damaged / marred at all.

If your getting a new rear cylinder I recommend that you quickly find rings.   

I quickly recommend that you take those cams you been hording and buy those 95" jugs and put together a bike that doesn't spend 1/2 it's time in the shop.
Get Rhino to tune it and sell the 110.
Unless your going the Hoist route any other botched fix is just another joke in the 110 comedy!


IMHO

[Unbalanced]

Hopefully the 4th time is a charm.   It is sad that it has become worse than a comedy.   More like going for a root canal.

[bobaroni]

Very disheartening to read about the ACR and oil leak issues. At 1100 miles I feel it's just a matter of time for my 110.
At least you guys help eliminate the element of surprise for the impending issues.
The service info should be very valuable.

[Unbalanced]

some pictures for those that may not have seen the heads torn down.  Lots of burned oil on this head

[Unbalanced]

Where my finger is, is where the oil was draining down through the stud hole.

[Unbalanced]

Where the compression release is notice all the carbon / burned oil

[Unbalanced]

What the inside of the rockerboxes look like with the rockers in place laying there

[Unbalanced]

Where the compression release comes out of the front head on the backside.  Notice the little bit of burned sheathing on the compression release wires.

[Unbalanced]

This is the oil that was behind the rear cylinder when I brought it in for the issue

[Unbalanced]

I think this is a better picture of the build up inside the chamber.

[skreminegul07]

Where the compression release comes out of the front head on the backside.  Notice the little bit of burned sheathing on the compression release wires.

Does the burning oil have anything to do with the ACR wires and the failure of the ACR on your 110?

Thanks for the PICS, very helpful.

BTW, my dealer ordered the kit for mine and is holding it.  The part number is 17458-07 which includes piston, jug and rings.

[Unbalanced]

Parts didn't make in today.  The rings did, but the rear replacement jugg and front ACR did not due to someone slacking at the dealership.  They are expected in tomorrow morning, so hopefully the whole weekend is not blown before I head Cupertino on Monday.

[Unbalanced]

Does the burning oil have anything to do with the ACR wires and the failure of the ACR on your 110?

Thanks for the PICS, very helpful.

BTW, my dealer ordered the kit for mine and is holding it.  The part number is 17458-07 which includes piston, jug and rings.

Can't answer that as the rear is still working, the front is not and they have not taken that rockerbox off yet.   My dealer will not replace both cylinders even at my request as there are no issues other than the ACR not working.   I am really afraid the front looks like the rear, but they say Harley won't warranty it.   Thus when they take the front rockerbox off they will only remove the ACR and replace it and then I hope it will work.   The rear is firing, but the front is not.

The burn has nothing to do with what is inside it did not make it all the way through, but I have asked them to rewrap them with a 2nd layer to ensure the wires don't get melted.   Hopefully this will fix it and I can ride worry free for a while.   Seems to happen around 5000 to 6000 miles after each fix.   approx mileage for fixes were 5k, 10k, 16,8.   

First fix was original head gasket/base gasket.  2nd fix was new headgasket / base gasket / new rings / ball hone cylinders.   3rd fix is new rear jugg, new rings, new headgasket, and front ACR, and starter pinion assembly.

[skreminegul07]

Can't answer that as the rear is still working, the front is not and they have not taken that rockerbox off yet.   My dealer will not replace both cylinders even at my request as there are no issues other than the ACR not working.   I am really afraid the front looks like the rear, but they say Harley won't warranty it.   Thus when they take the front rockerbox off they will only remove the ACR and replace it and then I hope it will work.   The rear is firing, but the front is not.

The burn has nothing to do with what is inside it did not make it all the way through, but I have asked them to rewrap them with a 2nd layer to ensure the wires don't get melted.   Hopefully this will fix it and I can ride worry free for a while.   Seems to happen around 5000 to 6000 miles after each fix.   approx mileage for fixes were 5k, 10k, 16,8.    First fix was original head gasket/base gasket.  2nd fix was new headgasket / base gasket / new rings / ball hone cylinders.   3rd fix is new rear jugg, new rings, new headgasket, and front ACR, and starter pinion assembly.

I am amazed by the consistency in mileage that causes the failure.  My leak was at 3800.  I think it was there earlier but I did not notice it.  Actually I brought it in for the tranny leak and they found the HG leak and said it caused both!

[Unbalanced]

skreminegul07,

Actually I brought it in for the tranny leak and they found the HG leak and said it caused both!

If you can get them to explain to you how a head gasket leak caused a Tranny Leak I would be quite interested in hearing this wonderful tale. 

[Deuces_Wild]

I really feel bad for all you guys.  I personally know of 3, 07 SE Ultra's that have had complete motor changes, one of them is on his third motor and secound bike, since the first motor, locked up, causing him to crash.  Harley replace the bike and now it's on the secound motor.  I personally think Harley should be sued for expecting the customer to pay 30 + grand for a Beta engine and components. In the last few years we have seen many problems due to Harley trying to keep pace with the EPA, some of which have been completely and unmistakably "DANGEROUS" and possibly life threatening. I understand as I know all of you do, the love for your ride, "BUT" continueing to take this kind of disrespect and abuse from Harley only justifies there BS.

[Unbalanced]

Hoping tomorrow solves the issue, if not this was the 3rd time and i have a little over a year left on the bike to possible cry lemon lemon lemon law.

[Unbalanced]

ok so here is the update the bike is still at the dealer.   They replaced all the parts, got it running sorta.   With the factory download in my ECM the compression releases now work.   We went ahead and loaded my race tuner map that we created on the dealers dyno.   Boom no compression releases.   We go back in load map 84 for giggles, still no compression releases.

I note this only because it dawned on me after leaving the dealership tonight.   on their desktop they have version 4.50 and version 4.62 icons.   Version 4.50 the compression releases didnt work so that is why they released version 4.62.   I am wondering if the problem is because they did not uninstall 4.50 and installed 4.62 over the top that is causing the issue.   Any time I have ever installed the Race Tuner software it has asked me to uninstall the previous version.  If you were to uninstall and do a clean install you would not have both icons on the desktop, because the uninstall would remove them.  /hrmph  frustrating

Tomorrow I am bringing my laptop down there that only has 4.62 on it and I am going to try it.

I am also going to create a new map with the base from 4.62 incase it is a legacy issue with the map and try that one as well if those dont work I guess I will give up and figure out what harley says about it and go from there.

[Unbalanced]

new compression release

[MJZ]

I really feel bad for all you guys.  I personally know of 3, 07 SE Ultra's that have had complete motor changes, one of them is on his third motor and secound bike, since the first motor, locked up, causing him to crash.  Harley replace the bike and now it's on the secound motor.  I personally think Harley should be sued for expecting the customer to pay 30 + grand for a Beta engine and components. In the last few years we have seen many problems due to Harley trying to keep pace with the EPA, some of which have been completely and unmistakably "DANGEROUS" and possibly life threatening. I understand as I know all of you do, the love for your ride, "BUT" continueing to take this kind of disrespect and abuse from Harley only justifies there BS.

I have three friends that have had their rear jugs replaced on their 07 110's and everyone else I know is expecting to have the same problem. The sadest part is the ones that have had theirs replaced don't have any confidence the replacement will be any better than the original. I am seriously considering taking my deposit back and waiting for MoCo to get their chit together. Without this site and others similar on the web, nobody would know anything about these problems with the 110's. You're sure not going to hear it from the stealerships.

[Unbalanced]

MJZ,

I do not believe that this is going to be resolved by a new rear jugg.  Let me try to explain my thinking on this.

I believe that were not seeing this in the front due to it gets more air there and keeps the engine within tolerances.   I believe that the motor is expanding to the point that things end up moving a tiny bit and harley hopes that the new Thicker gasket will make up for the differences in tolerances.   So far in 2 tries it hasn't, but they say replace the jugg, they didnt say exactly why this is their course of action.   Wondering if replacing the studs with race studs would stop some of the expansion and help 

Again this is my thinking, that the cylinder studs are expanding and contracting too and with that the movement comes.  I believe these juggs are thinner do to the larger bore than the 103" and they are not handling the heat and over X period of time for me about 5000 miles the jugg / gasket finally have enough wiggle room that the oil under pressure is being forced byt he gasket into the bolt holes and then out the bottom of the jugg.   

I think harley is counting on the people that dont ride a lot to only see this one time maybe a 2nd time over their 2 year warranty and then its off to extended and harley is safe.   The people that get out and ride a lot more like myself are seeing this over and over and well this hopefully fixes it, but I don't think it will. 

With the on going issues I am forced to start considering going to the 113" motor upgrade as they are not seeing this problem, the juggs are bigger, the heads are different and well all I have to do is bore the cases and pay some money.   The other consideration is to just use the millenium / axtel juggs and new pistons and go to the 124 and get some head work done and not have this problem.   

Thinking out loud to hire an attorney is about 2500 dollars to start then whatever else from there.   A forensic mechanic another 2500 - 5000.   that is 5000-7500 and no guaranteed outcome.   Might have to consider paying 6k and just get it done right.  /shrug frustrating to say the least.

Back of my mind I keep saying to myself I should have just replaced my 05 that i totaled with another 05 / 06.   

[Midnight Rider]

I have three friends that have had their rear jugs replaced on their 07 110's and everyone else I know is expecting to have the same problem. The sadest part is the ones that have had theirs replaced don't have any confidence the replacement will be any better than the original. I am seriously considering taking my deposit back and waiting for MoCo to get their chit together. Without this site and others similar on the web, nobody would know anything about these problems with the 110's. You're sure not going to hear it from the stealerships.

Mark...same thing in talking to the SM here the other day.  One bike in with rocker box clearance issues so bad that it destroyed the valve spring keeper (if that's the correct term) and caused big problems with that head/cylinder.  Motor had been so hot that BOTH badges (old style badges) had turned completely yellow/gold.  On the positive side of the new management philosophy here at this dealer, they tore the whole top end down and checked/replaced all parts that were not in spec, got it back together for the guy by staying 'till 9PM the night before he headed out to Canada on vacation.  I'd be really nervous if I had a 110 and was about to embark on a lengthy trip.  And to top it off, we don't even know yet what, if any, options are going to be available to get the bike tuned properly and cooled down because of the changes to the ECM in 08. The MOCO has really screwed up on this whole deal.  I don't envy your position of having to make a decision on the purchase of the new scoot at this point in time.  They've had a friggin' year to get these motor issues diagnosed and find a PERMANENT solution to the problem.  It makes you wonder if there IS a permanent solution, or if they are buying time on the 07's till they run out of warranty...  If I had one, I'd damn sure have the extended warranty to go with it.

If they would just step up to the plate and admit the motors have problems and offer at least some consoling words letting people know they are working feverishly on a fix, it would at least make people feel better.  Of course, the average Joe out there, who's not a member of some kind of forum where these issues are being brought to the surface, will be none the wiser about getting one stuck in him/her.  Damn shame...

[skreminegul07]

MJZ,

I do not believe that this is going to be resolved by a new rear jugg.  Let me try to explain my thinking on this.

I believe that were not seeing this in the front due to it gets more air there and keeps the engine within tolerances.   I believe that the motor is expanding to the point that things end up moving a tiny bit and harley hopes that the new Thicker gasket will make up for the differences in tolerances.   So far in 2 tries it hasn't, but they say replace the jugg, they didn't say exactly why this is their course of action.   Wondering if replacing the studs with race studs would stop some of the expansion and help 

Again this is my thinking, that the cylinder studs are expanding and contracting too and with that the movement comes.  I believe these juggs are thinner do to the larger bore than the 103" and they are not handling the heat and over X period of time for me about 5000 miles the jugg / gasket finally have enough wiggle room that the oil under pressure is being forced byt he gasket into the bolt holes and then out the bottom of the jugg.   

I think harley is counting on the people that dont ride a lot to only see this one time maybe a 2nd time over their 2 year warranty and then its off to extended and harley is safe.   The people that get out and ride a lot more like myself are seeing this over and over and well this hopefully fixes it, but I don't think it will. 

With the on going issues I am forced to start considering going to the 113" motor upgrade as they are not seeing this problem, the juggs are bigger, the heads are different and well all I have to do is bore the cases and pay some money.   The other consideration is to just use the millenium / axtel juggs and new pistons and go to the 124 and get some head work done and not have this problem.   

Thinking out loud to hire an attorney is about 2500 dollars to start then whatever else from there.   A forensic mechanic another 2500 - 5000.   that is 5000-7500 and no guaranteed outcome.    Might have to consider paying 6k and just get it done right.  /shrug frustrating to say the least.

Back of my mind I keep saying to myself I should have just replaced my 05 that i totaled with another 05 / 06.   

This is what I have been saying all along.  They assume that this issue will not be seen while under warranty.

As far as legal fees, the cost could be lessened by joining forces in a class action suit.  Have you discussed this with an attorney willing to take on the MOCO?

I'm game at this point.

[Unbalanced]

Class Action while a good idea really only makes the lawyers money and really doesnt necessarily do much for us as the victims.

I would be inclined to join up for the sake of making them do right, but doubt it will be in a time fashion worth while to the problems we have today.

[MJZ]

Your theory sadly is exactly the same as a friend told me this afternoon. He has a 07 SERK w/ 4k miles which is now having the rear jugg replaced. He is the one I was speaking of above that had absolutely no faith that the fix was permanent at all. Today the dealer said he had no idea when I could expect to see my new bike and I'm kidding myself into thinking good, they should have the problem fixed by the time mine is assembled. My excitement over the new bike is clouding my judgement toward the wrong direction. Big mistake, especially since I have no intention of parting with my 05 SEEG and was going to use it to replace my SED for local riding, while using the new bike for longer trips. I need to rethink this situation with a more informed and less emotional view. Caveat Emptor keeps rolling through my mind.

[Twolanerider]

Your theory sadly is exactly the same as a friend told me this afternoon. He has a 07 SERK w/ 4k miles which is now having the rear jugg replaced. He is the one I was speaking of above that had absolutely no faith that the fix was permanent at all. Today the dealer said he had no idea when I could expect to see my new bike and I'm kidding myself into thinking good, they should have the problem fixed by the time mine is assembled. My excitement over the new bike is clouding my judgement toward the wrong direction. Big mistake, especially since I have no intention of parting with my 05 SEEG and was going to use it to replace my SED for local riding, while using the new bike for longer trips. I need to rethink this situation with a more informed and less emotional view. Caveat Emptor keeps rolling through my mind.

Mark, strictly in the FWIW department I saw a red one in Springfield, MO this afternoon.  The paint was terrible.  Orange peel on every surface except for the tank and saddlebag lids.  It was incredibly bad on the tour pak, most of the tank and outer fairing.  Paint also had some dull spots beneath the clear.  Looked like it was dirty when it got clear coated or something.  Just a strikingly poor paint job.

Almost fortunately I never saw the owner to the bike.  So didn't have to face pointing it all out to him.  Never know how those conversations might be taken.

[miker]

MJZ,

I do not believe that this is going to be resolved by a new rear jugg.  Let me try to explain my thinking on this.

I believe that were not seeing this in the front due to it gets more air there and keeps the engine within tolerances.   I believe that the motor is expanding to the point that things end up moving a tiny bit and harley hopes that the new Thicker gasket will make up for the differences in tolerances.   So far in 2 tries it hasn't, but they say replace the jugg, they didnt say exactly why this is their course of action.   Wondering if replacing the studs with race studs would stop some of the expansion and help 

Again this is my thinking, that the cylinder studs are expanding and contracting too and with that the movement comes.  I believe these juggs are thinner do to the larger bore than the 103" and they are not handling the heat and over X period of time for me about 5000 miles the jugg / gasket finally have enough wiggle room that the oil under pressure is being forced byt he gasket into the bolt holes and then out the bottom of the jugg.   

I think harley is counting on the people that dont ride a lot to only see this one time maybe a 2nd time over their 2 year warranty and then its off to extended and harley is safe.   The people that get out and ride a lot more like myself are seeing this over and over and well this hopefully fixes it, but I don't think it will. 

With the on going issues I am forced to start considering going to the 113" motor upgrade as they are not seeing this problem, the juggs are bigger, the heads are different and well all I have to do is bore the cases and pay some money.   The other consideration is to just use the millenium / axtel juggs and new pistons and go to the 124 and get some head work done and not have this problem.   

Thinking out loud to hire an attorney is about 2500 dollars to start then whatever else from there.   A forensic mechanic another 2500 - 5000.   that is 5000-7500 and no guaranteed outcome.   Might have to consider paying 6k and just get it done right.  /shrug frustrating to say the least.

Back of my mind I keep saying to myself I should have just replaced my 05 that i totaled with another 05 / 06.   

Do you think the frame can handle the bigger motor?...I am getting fully prepared for this motor to grenade itself and I don't do extended warranty stuff...3K miles and counting...I have heated the bejeezus out of it several time, today, it was the Collins Ave craawl in South Beach...At least I didn't crash or hurt my neck looking at "sites".  Good luck.

[MJZ]

Just went by the dealer and asked if there was any possibility, since my bike has not been assembled if I could get a 113 installed instead. First they said no but they could easily do the work once the bike came in. Then we had a little talk about the problem with the 110's, which they said they had never heard anything about any problems with the 110, even though I know of at least 3 07 SERK's that have had rear jugs replaced in the last few weeks by them. Anyway, they are calling MoCo in the morning and checking to see if what I am requesting is possible.

[Unbalanced]

MJZ,

Great idea, I hope it works out in your favor.   I wonder if extended covers the 113 if you have it installed at time of purchase before you take delivery.   Isn't that how it works with 6 speeds and other accessories if installed by dealer?

Best of luck with that,

[SOKOOLJ]

Just went by the dealer and asked if there was any possibility, since my bike has not been assembled if I could get a 113 installed instead. First they said no but they could easily do the work once the bike came in. Then we had a little talk about the problem with the 110's, which they said they had never heard anything about any problems with the 110, even though I know of at least 3 07 SERK's that have had rear jugs replaced in the last few weeks by them. Anyway, they are calling MoCo in the morning and checking to see if what I am requesting is possible.

Good luck, hope it all works out for the best.

[miker]

Just went by the dealer and asked if there was any possibility, since my bike has not been assembled if I could get a 113 installed instead. First they said no but they could easily do the work once the bike came in. Then we had a little talk about the problem with the 110's, which they said they had never heard anything about any problems with the 110, even though I know of at least 3 07 SERK's that have had rear jugs replaced in the last few weeks by them. Anyway, they are calling MoCo in the morning and checking to see if what I am requesting is possible.

Didja call em out on lying to you?  Effers, It don't seem to matter where or who, they all be thievin liars...What else are they lyin about.