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Author Topic: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice  (Read 13756 times)

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serghaven

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Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« on: November 18, 2008, 09:49:35 PM »

So I have been doing a lot of reading on this site sense I am next on a list for a 09 SERG. I have been reading about all the problems that people are having with theirs and I'm wondering if I making the right decision. I read about paint chipping off, overheating and oil leaks. I read about people worried about taking their bikes on long trips as they feel the bike might break down on them etc… With all that being said, why do I want to spend 30k on a bike that has all these problems? 
Also, I read that if you remove the cc (what's a cc anyway) :confused5: it will help with the engine heat issue. I'm new to this site and you guys have a lot more experience at this than I do.  Any input would be appreciated... :orange: :mango: :bananarock:
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sadunbar

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2008, 09:53:21 PM »

So I have been doing a lot of reading on this site sense I am next on a list for a 09 SERG. I have been reading about all the problems that people are having with theirs and I'm wondering if I making the right decision. I read about paint chipping off, overheating and oil leaks. I read about people worried about taking their bikes on long trips as they feel the bike might break down on them etc… With all that being said, why do I want to spend 30k on a bike that has all these problems? 
Also, I read that if you remove the cc (what's a cc anyway) :confused5: it will help with the engine heat issue. I'm new to this site and you guys have a lot more experience at this than I do.  Any input would be appreciated... :orange: :mango: :bananarock:


You have to remember reading every post on a particular issue is like watching a 24 hour news channel on television for 24 hours.  When you have watched the same "news alerts" for 24 hours, things seem worse then they are.  Some have experienced all of what your wrote.  But the vast majority would tell you they absolutely love their rides!   :2vrolijk_21:
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LRebel

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2008, 10:00:14 PM »

So I have been doing a lot of reading on this site sense I am next on a list for a 09 SERG. I have been reading about all the problems that people are having with theirs and I'm wondering if I making the right decision. I read about paint chipping off, overheating and oil leaks. I read about people worried about taking their bikes on long trips as they feel the bike might break down on them etc… With all that being said, why do I want to spend 30k on a bike that has all these problems? 
Also, I read that if you remove the cc (what's a cc anyway) :confused5: it will help with the engine heat issue. I'm new to this site and you guys have a lot more experience at this than I do.  Any input would be appreciated... :orange: :mango: :bananarock:


cc:  catalytic converter

The problems you have read about are just Harley stuff.  It's always been the same... every version of these bikes have had their unique problems.  Some have had less problems than others, but they have all had their problems.  It's just part of owning a Harley (BTW, most other brands of bikes have their unique problems also - maybe not as many as Harley, but they have problems too)

Buy the bike you -- will most likely love it.  Advise:  Spend the $$$ for the extended warranty  ;)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2008, 10:01:56 PM by LRebel »
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Keats

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2008, 10:07:25 PM »

So I have been doing a lot of reading on this site sense I am next on a list for a 09 SERG. I have been reading about all the problems that people are having with theirs and I'm wondering if I making the right decision. I read about paint chipping off, overheating and oil leaks. I read about people worried about taking their bikes on long trips as they feel the bike might break down on them etc… With all that being said, why do I want to spend 30k on a bike that has all these problems? 
Also, I read that if you remove the cc (what's a cc anyway) :confused5: it will help with the engine heat issue. I'm new to this site and you guys have a lot more experience at this than I do.  Any input would be appreciated... :orange: :mango: :bananarock:


Nothing like a Harley (the sound,the respect, the feel and the headaches), but if you do not have the stomach to tinker or make improvements to a less than perfect bike, do yourself a favor and buy a Wing.
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serghaven

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2008, 10:13:42 PM »

A wing, now thats crazy talk... ;D
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2008, 10:22:06 PM »

My affair with H-D has been a love - hate relationship.  Just don't try to take it away from me.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2008, 10:42:18 PM »

You may or may not have issues. What new vehicle doesn't? It's real easy to get caught up in the negs. Be sure to read the threads where we just dig the hell out of our bikes and ride lots of miles worry free. And if something does come up we generally find a way to deal w/ it. The SERG is new this year so there's no long term report yet but lots of us are betting it will be a heck of a lot more grins than frowns.
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PR3VS56

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2008, 01:00:56 AM »

serghaven, I wouldn't back away if I were you.  In fact, I'm not.  Should you decide to pass on your bike, I'll take it (providing you're in California).
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2008, 07:20:56 AM »

I can raise my hand and honestly say this is the only vehicle of all of them I've owned, ten or so cars and six bikes, that has had "issues".  This is also the only one I've had regrets over buying.  I got mine before it was common knowlege that they have an engineering and testing shortfall; that can't be said now.  They've changed some of the minor bits, but the cheap-ass parts basic problems remain.  It's just not cheap to fix them (which is why HD isn't). 

Your money, but caveat emptor fits.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2008, 07:30:57 AM »

serg;

 You may not have any major issues with your bike at all. Definitely get the extended warranty, IF you do not intend to do major modifications. Changing out exhaust, proper A/F ratio, air cleaner do not count as major mods, and most dealers will not frown on honoring the warranty. Once you start replacing cams, pistons, etc. is when it gets "really iffy"...

 the long and short of it is, you may have some problems but you will definitely LOVE the bike.

Here's to many smiling, problem free miles!  :drink:

Flyndyna
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iski

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2008, 08:02:37 AM »

So I have been doing a lot of reading on this site sense I am next on a list for a 09 SERG. I have been reading about all the problems that people are having with theirs and I'm wondering if I making the right decision. I read about paint chipping off, overheating and oil leaks. I read about people worried about taking their bikes on long trips as they feel the bike might break down on them etc… With all that being said, why do I want to spend 30k on a bike that has all these problems? 
Also, I read that if you remove the cc (what's a cc anyway) :confused5: it will help with the engine heat issue. I'm new to this site and you guys have a lot more experience at this than I do.  Any input would be appreciated... :orange: :mango: :bananarock:


A bike is an individual as well as a personal decision & there are a huge number of factors involved.  Riding styles, usability, rideability, etc., etc., etc.   All vehicles - especially motorcycles - have unique problem sets. Other bike manufacturers have problems as well.  Harley is the focus here & this is a VERY demanding board as to expectations & in some areas, HD does very well.  In others, not so well.  We love these CVOs but we see their flaws as well as the areas they shine. 

Not sure about your riding history or bike ownership history - appears you are fairly familiar with Harleys.  Best advice I can give is - if you like the bike, buy the bike.  Life is too short to waste too much time when there are roads to ride & stuff to do & see. 

And welcome to the board. 
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2008, 08:25:44 AM »

serghaven

  I have owned a 07 110, and now I have a 09. Having said that, I believe the 09 is a much better bike, HD has made impovments. I like the way the 09 handles and performs. IMHO you will like the serg.
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BLM777

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2008, 09:48:27 AM »

serghaven ...... I think the majority of the folks on here would tell you to go ahead with your purchase.  After snooping around here a bit, you'll find that there are some who can find fault with anything HD ie motorcycles, dealers, customer service, parts or even corporate attitude.  Pay particular attention to whether it is a stock bike problem or a backyard modification that is the real cause of the complaint.
From time to time there are problems, as there is with any manufactured product, but if you want a motorcycle, enjoy riding and an association with some of the best folks around, an HD bike and this site are hard to beat.  Actually, if any portion of your decision involves maintaining the highest residual value for your dollar invested there is no other real choice in a motorcycle.  It's always a good idea to scan the NADA retained value in direct comparison to the Jap wannabe's and cheap imitations to make yourself feel a whole lot better about the money you are about to spend.  Good luck and looking forward to your impressions.....
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serghaven

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2008, 09:49:35 AM »

Thanks everyone for your input. I do not plan on making any major upgrades to it. Just the l replacing the seat, passenger foot boards and different windshield. Is it recommended that I replace the air cleaner and exhaust to help keep the heat down? That would be the only mechanical changes I think I would make. Don’t need to go any faster than it already goes. However, I’m willing to make changes to enjoy the bike a little more.  

 You guy’s ROCK…
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2008, 09:52:52 AM »

You'll do just fine w/ those mods / changes. Only other suggestion is a race tuner and a good dyno tune.

BTW, you'll end up doing more just to "make it yours."  :)
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JCZ

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2008, 09:55:41 AM »

I ride an 04 SEEG.  If my money wasn't funny, I'd buy a SERG in a heartbeat.

Sure, 04 SEEGs had the peeling chrome issue.  For my bike it was just the wheels and HD replaced them at just under two years old, for free.

Some paint issues along the way.....just look your bike over very closely, when you accept it and have them document any paint issues so that you can have them get the parts ordered and get them replaced.

I've also bought the extended service contract (some refer to it as extended warranty) on my last four bikes and I believe that's a good piece of mind once the factory warranty is up.  I've used it and it's paid for itself on all four bikes.

Lastly, I think the other 09 owners will tell you that they've finally worked the heat issue to where it's at least manageable now.  Heat has always been an issue on big motors....remember, they're air cooled.

Having said all that, I also subscribe to Motocycle Consumer News and I see the letters of complaint from all the other makes.....yes, Honda even BMW.  Speaking of BMWs.....if this were a car site, I'd share my experience and frustration there, too. :nixweiss:  I'm betting in short order you'll be very happy with your choice of motorcycle. :2vrolijk_21:

BLM's post above makes some very good points to consider! :2vrolijk_21:
« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 09:57:38 AM by JCZ »
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2008, 09:58:05 AM »

Since you're looking at a SERG without lowers, I'd ride the bike some and see if heat is any issue for you.  If you decide that heat is a problem getting rid of the cat, installing free flowing exhaust and a good tune to enrich the mixture will accomplish what I think you are looking for.  There's lot's of threads on here to give you some excellent ideas on various exhaust setups.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 09:59:44 AM by BLM777 »
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Guilty

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2008, 12:21:28 PM »

Thanks everyone for your input. I do not plan on making any major upgrades to it. Just the l replacing the seat, passenger foot boards and different windshield. Is it recommended that I replace the air cleaner and exhaust to help keep the heat down? That would be the only mechanical changes I think I would make. Don’t need to go any faster than it already goes. However, I’m willing to make changes to enjoy the bike a little more.  

 You guy’s ROCK…


Famous last words...It sounds like you are feeling more secure about the purchase after the first few replies. Even if you end up running into problems, the CVO bikes provide great satisfaction. They look great, have plenty of power, not everybody has one and the CVO bikes provide a special pride of ownership.
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skreminegul07

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2008, 12:22:59 PM »

serg;

 You may not have any major issues with your bike at all. Definitely get the extended warranty, IF you do not intend to do major modifications. Changing out exhaust, proper A/F ratio, air cleaner do not count as major mods, and most dealers will not frown on honoring the warranty. Once you start replacing cams, pistons, etc. is when it gets "really iffy"...

 the long and short of it is, you may have some problems but you will definitely LOVE the bike.

Here's to many smiling, problem free miles!  :drink:

Flyndyna

Yes they do and I have it in writing from HD's legal department.  Their exact words were "major modifications"  "exhaust changes and high flow air cleaner (which is 100% factory)"  Motor is 100% stock.  Dealer installed SERT and tune.  They basically said those unauthorized modifications caused the issues on all 24,000 110" motors. Its ironic that what we do lowers temps and actually helps a poor design.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 12:25:48 PM by skreminegul07 »
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PR3VS56

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2008, 12:27:55 PM »

They basically said those unauthorized modifications caused the issues on all 24,000 110" motors. Its ironic that what we do lowers temps and actually helps a poor design.

Clearly, it's not about right or wrong.  It's about saving $$$$.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2008, 12:29:21 PM »

I guess I've been fortunate.  Besides bad paint, the only challenges I've experienced with my motorcycle have been self-induced. 
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2008, 12:31:37 PM »

I guess I've been fortunate.  Besides bad paint, the only challenges I've experienced with my motorcycle have been self-induced.  

No paint issues here but you nailed it Henry on the rest!

 ::)      ::)       ::)       ::)       ::)






edited to add
crack don't smoke itself!
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2008, 12:36:58 PM »

No paint issues here but you nailed it Henry on the rest!

 ::)      ::)       ::)       ::)       ::)

Yessir.  I have no problems claiming ownership of a challenge for which I'm responsible for causing.  Despite those challenges, I'm having a great time getting them fixed.  I think one of the most fun parts of fixing them is the anticipation of what the bike will be like when it is fixed...................and when I do finally get it fixed and back home...........then what?

Oh yeah...........that's right.............the FLHR needs some self-induced challenges.   :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:

Break 'em.  Fix 'em.  Repeat.  Stay happy.   :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2008, 12:41:53 PM »

edited to add
crack don't smoke itself!

Like any other addiction, that's true.  Gotta have it.   :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2008, 12:53:20 PM »

Like any other addiction, that's true.  Gotta have it.   :2vrolijk_21:

Horsepower!
Now there's a powerful drug!

 ;)
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2008, 01:27:23 PM »

Horsepower!
Now there's a powerful drug!

 ;)

Torque is also a good one!   :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2008, 01:59:56 PM »

Yes they do and I have it in writing from HD's legal department.  Their exact words were "major modifications"  "exhaust changes and high flow air cleaner (which is 100% factory)"  Motor is 100% stock.  Dealer installed SERT and tune.  They basically said those unauthorized modifications caused the issues on all 24,000 110" motors. Its ironic that what we do lowers temps and actually helps a poor design.

I think you're confusing a corporate legal position, which, by the way is entirely necessary to protect against self induced claims, with the likelihood that a responsible dealer would provide warranty work on mods that they approved and installed.  As many threads have mentioned, there are good, average and poor dealerships when it comes to providing warranty service.  I've had exceptional service with regard to warranty work over the years and have never had a question raised when installing the mods that you describe as well as SE pistons, cams and heads.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2008, 08:48:20 PM »

 I think you have to figure that most people on this forum are "over the top" when it comes to their passion about their rides; be it good or bad.  Having said that, I think you would find that the majority of folks love their rides, and would love to just have everything perfect. Fact of the matter is that no matter what manufacturer, they all have issues.  I have owned several different types of bikes and can say without a doubt, there is nothing like a Harley, not only because of the bike, but also because what is behind it.  The HOG chapters offer a great ability to ride with others and there is a real commraderie within Harley Owners.  I's say, go for it..you'll love it.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2008, 08:58:50 PM »

I think you have to figure that most people on this forum are "over the top" when it comes to their passion about their rides; be it good or bad.  Having said that, I think you would find that the majority of folks love their rides, and would love to just have everything perfect. Fact of the matter is that no matter what manufacturer, they all have issues.  I have owned several different types of bikes and can say without a doubt, there is nothing like a Harley, not only because of the bike, but also because what is behind it.  The HOG chapters offer a great ability to ride with others and there is a real commraderie within Harley Owners.  I's say, go for it..you'll love it.

Very well put.........except for the next to the last sentence.

I'm just sayin'.   :huepfenlol2:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2008, 09:06:19 PM »

I've had my SEUC for two great years now and the only issue I've had is one set of leaking head gaskets.  She's in for her "product enhancement" right now.  I would buy another CVO with a 110 in a micro second.  The enjoyment I've had on that motorcycle far outweighs any frustrations that the 110 may have caused me.  Which is actually none, because when the SEUC is in the shop, the few times she's been in, I have the Street Glide to ride, so I'm still good to go.   :2vrolijk_21:  Anyway, if you don't think owning a CVO isn't special, then go up with CVO owners group and tour the York factory and CVO facility, then when all those blinged up versions of Harley's finest get lined up to leave and the factory employees come out to take a picture of you...now that's special.  8)

   :devil:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2008, 09:12:22 PM »

I've had my SEUC for two great years now and the only issue I've had is one set of leaking head gaskets.  She's in for her "product enhancement" right now.  I would buy another CVO with a 110 in a micro second.  The enjoyment I've had on that motorcycle far outweighs any frustrations that the 110 may have caused me.  Which is actually none, because when the SEUC is in the shop, the few times she's been in, I have the Street Glide to ride, so I'm still good to go.   :2vrolijk_21:  Anyway, if you don't think owning a CVO isn't special, then go up with CVO owners group and tour the York factory and CVO facility, then when all those blinged up versions of Harley's finest get lined up to leave and the factory employees come out to take a picture of you...now that's special.  8)

   :devil:

Always a good thing to have a backup ride.   :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2008, 09:31:02 PM »

Always a good thing to have a backup ride.   :2vrolijk_21:

Yessir it is Henry.   ;)  :2vrolijk_21:

   :devil:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2008, 09:38:35 PM »

Yessir it is Henry.   ;)  :2vrolijk_21:

   :devil:

I couldn't imagine the jones from which I'd be suffering without a second bike right about now, Charlie.............keeps me on an even keel while the green bike is undergoing surgery.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2008, 09:41:59 PM »

I couldn't imagine the jones from which I'd be suffering without a second bike right about now, Charlie.............keeps me on an even keel while the green bike is undergoing surgery.

You got that right.  I used to get depressed when I just had the one and it'd be in the shop. Not anymore.  I guess if it ever happens that both are in the shop at the same time, I'll just have to get a third one, or be like my hero Chip, and have a whole stable-full of them and a couple of scooters to run to the 7-11 and back.   :2vrolijk_21:

  :devil:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2008, 09:52:26 PM »

Just do it. Ive had mine since 02 and no problems due to mfg. defects. i have done major mods to the engine without worries. rode 4200mi. in 11 days this year (sturgis) and never gave it a second thought. BUY IT, RIDE IT AND LOVE IT. you will swell with pride every time you look at it. :huepfenjump3:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2008, 09:54:53 PM »

You got that right.  I used to get depressed when I just had the one and it'd be in the shop. Not anymore.  I guess if it ever happens that both are in the shop at the same time, I'll just have to get a third one, or be like my hero Chip, and have a whole stable-full of them and a couple of scooters to run to the 7-11 and back.   :2vrolijk_21:

  :devil:

A third one has crossed my mind...........but I want an EVO.........a 1998 95th Anniversary Edition FLTR.........carbureted, of course.  Unfortunately, all it's gonna do (for a little while) is cross my mind, since I can't get it to pass muster via Renea the Household Finance Committee.
So until then, I need to keep at least one bike FMC.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2008, 10:39:21 PM »

A third one has crossed my mind...........but I want an EVO.........a 1998 95th Anniversary Edition FLTR.........carbureted, of course.  Unfortunately, all it's gonna do (for a little while) is cross my mind, since I can't get it to pass muster via Renea the Household Finance Committee.
So until then, I need to keep at least one bike FMC.

Understand that.  CinCHouse stated that I have ran out of room on "my side" of the garage with the two motorcycles there and she is not giving up her side of the garage for more motorcycles.  Maybe, just have to sell the house and get a new on with a three four-car garage.  :nixweiss:

   :devil:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2008, 04:11:26 AM »

Go to the forums for any make or model bike and you will see problems listed.  This site would be pretty boring if everyone just logged on and wrote " My bike is great and I have never had a problem with it".  Obviously, not everything on the forum is a problem either.  It's just the fact that none of us is capable of leaving well enough alone and we share ways to modify our bikes, or better ways to do the same task, or provide guidance to where things are available, and so forth.  Some of it is just plain old communication between people with a common interest, and that interest(the CVO's) is just one arm of the greater Harley family, for which we are all a part and I am proud to be a part of that family.  I have had zero problems with my new CVO and I had no problems with my last Harley.  I expect that if I tinker enough, eventually I'll have a problem to solve and what a great place this is to find the solution.  So, if you are worried about buying that new Harley, git'r'done.  Your family is awaiting you.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2008, 04:27:54 AM »


It's just the fact that none of us is capable of leaving well enough alone and we share ways to modify our bikes, or better ways to do the same task, or provide guidance to where things are available, and so forth. 


Bullchit.  Mine are stock and they're staying that way.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2008, 04:37:01 AM »

You mean you haven't changed anything on your bikes?  Is that tan seat stock?  If you haven't changed anything on the 2 bikes you have, you have much more willpower than I will ever have.  Power to you.  I just can't seem to quit coming up with more things to add and change.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2008, 04:45:25 AM »

You mean you haven't changed anything on your bikes?  Is that tan seat stock?  If you haven't changed anything on the 2 bikes you have, you have much more willpower than I will ever have.  Power to you.  I just can't seem to quit coming up with more things to add and change.



Nope.  They're stock.  Both of them.  Really. 

Not only never changed anything myself never was so mean as to offer up ideas that caused others to spend money either.  Stock is what it's all about.  Harley nails everything about them to begin with. 

Anything tan must be an optical illusion in the photo.  Here's a closeup to show it better.  See, nothing tan at all!
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2008, 04:49:54 AM »

That's a 2 into 1 exhaust.  That isn't stock, is it?  Tinkering includes having someone else put upgrades on.  LOL.  I'm hitting the hay here.  It's almost 5am and I haven't been to sleep yet.
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REGGAB

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2008, 06:14:48 AM »

Understand that.  CinCHouse stated that I have ran out of room on "my side" of the garage with the two motorcycles there and she is not giving up her side of the garage for more motorcycles.  Maybe, just have to sell the house and get a new on with a three four-car garage.  :nixweiss:

   :devil:

Checkbook 06 says we need a detached garage and a pool BEFORE we get another bike.  I sorta, kinda, get my way when it comes to the garage, so I'm not in any real hurry to bid out the detached garage job.  It is one of two rooms in the house that are mine............Man caves...........No Girls Allowed.
The 06 element is really more concerned about a pool, so I'll have to address that one first and see what happens.  Might be able to sneak a third machine between the pool and the garage if I do it during the summer when she's occupied with her pool.   :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2008, 06:51:46 AM »

That's a 2 into 1 exhaust.  That isn't stock, is it?  Tinkering includes having someone else put upgrades on.  LOL.  I'm hitting the hay here.  It's almost 5am and I haven't been to sleep yet.

It'll be OK, my friend.  Keep right on scrolling.  Yer doin' fine.   :2vrolijk_21:
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skreminegul07

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2008, 07:46:19 AM »

I think you're confusing a corporate legal position, which, by the way is entirely necessary to protect against self induced claims, with the likelihood that a responsible dealer would provide warranty work on mods that they approved and installed.  As many threads have mentioned, there are good, average and poor dealerships when it comes to providing warranty service.  I've had exceptional service with regard to warranty work over the years and have never had a question raised when installing the mods that you describe as well as SE pistons, cams and heads.

Denial is effective, unless it happens to you.  They always have an out, because nobody keeps their bikes stock. 
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2008, 09:34:19 AM »



Nope.  They're stock.  Both of them.  Really. 

Not only never changed anything myself never was so mean as to offer up ideas that caused others to spend money either.  Stock is what it's all about.  Harley nails everything about them to begin with. 

Anything tan must be an optical illusion in the photo.  Here's a closeup to show it better.  See, nothing tan at all!

Soooooooo...... that's why your other nickname is "Bonestock"?
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2008, 10:30:43 AM »

I am going through with the purchase… I thank all of you for your knowledge on this subject.  They tell me that it will be here late February or March.  I will be making a few additions to it. Seat, windshield, passenger foot boards for sure. I hope the pipes sound good so I do not have to replace them right away. I do not plan on making any engine modifications unless I need to.  I will post some pictures when I get it. I might have to take it south for a few days and get the break in done before riding season starts up here.  If anyone thinks I should do anything else I’m always willing to listen…. Thanks again
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2008, 10:36:29 AM »

Congrats on the decision.  It will be a great moment when you ride away from the dealer on your new bike.  If you are going to change seats, wait to get the windshield until after you see where the new seat positions you and then get a windshield based on your final positioning.
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PR3VS56

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2008, 10:37:57 AM »

Congrats on the decision.  It will be a great moment when you ride away from the dealer on your new bike.  If you are going to change seats, wait to get the windshield until after you see where the new seat positions you and then get a windshield based on your final positioning.

I haven't heard any comments on the bars.  With earlier RG's the bars were the first thing to go.  They must be a decent shape on the new ones...?
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2008, 10:48:00 AM »

That's a 2 into 1 exhaust.  That isn't stock, is it?  Tinkering includes having someone else put upgrades on.  LOL.  I'm hitting the hay here.  It's almost 5am and I haven't been to sleep yet.

No.  Really.  Anything that isn't stock is just an optical illusion.  A trick of flash photography.  I would never be so insane as to do all to a motorcycle that the illusions suggest to mine.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2008, 11:27:08 AM »

No.  Really.  Anything that isn't stock is just an optical illusion.  A trick of flash photography.  I would never be so insane as to do all to a motorcycle that the illusions suggest to mine.

Y'know...no one modifies their bikes, yet the darned cameras these days just aren't what they should be! Whenever someone takes a picture of me, it looks like I am only 5'4" tall, and weigh 210 lbs...wtf? I know for a fact your bikes ARE bone-stock...

 :worthless:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2008, 01:46:32 PM »


 I know for a fact your bikes ARE bone-stock...



Thank you.  Thank you very much.  The trust of friends.  It's the best. ::)
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2008, 06:01:43 PM »

No.  Really.  Anything that isn't stock is just an optical illusion.  A trick of flash photography.  I would never be so insane as to do all to a motorcycle that the illusions suggest to mine.
Errr, ummm.... what flavor is that Kool-Aid you are drinking today? :nixweiss: :P ;D

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2008, 06:11:15 PM »

Errr, ummm.... what flavor is that Kool-Aid you are drinking today? :nixweiss: :P ;D

 :pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
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Virtual Delight!

It even comes orange flavored!

 :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2008, 06:45:00 PM »

Virtual Delight!

It even comes orange flavored!

 :2vrolijk_21:
:bigok:

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2008, 06:46:10 PM »


Thank you.  Thank you very much.  The trust of friends.  It's the best. ::)

Hey Don, how much have you invested now to keep those bikes stock?   :huepfenlol2:

   :devil:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2008, 07:03:53 PM »

Errr, ummm.... what flavor is that Kool-Aid you are drinking today? :nixweiss: :P ;D

 :pumpkin:
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Et tu my twin.  Et tu.  (we need an icon of one of the little emotiguys with a toga and a knife in his chest--if anyone can find you I'll give you Brian's FXR)
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2008, 07:04:50 PM »

Hey Don, how much have you invested now to keep those bikes stock?   :huepfenlol2:

   :devil:

Finally someone understands how much work it is to keep a bike as stock as mine are.  This chit ain't easy.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2008, 07:05:34 PM »

Et tu my twin.  Et tu.  (we need an icon of one of the little emotiguys with a toga and a knife in his chest--if anyone can find you I'll give you Brian's FXR)
:oops: :innocent: :huepfenlol2:

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2008, 05:34:17 PM »

I too wondered if I may have made a mistake, The day after I put the down pymt on my SERG I read the AI article, and like you I came here to get the straight scoop! I am now REALLY  looking forward to March And I am only having sleep problems due to excitement, not worry! I say go for it! I am!! Thanks to all that responded to my "worried" post!
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #60 on: November 21, 2008, 05:52:09 PM »

Clearly, it's not about right or wrong.  It's about saving $$$$.

More about meeting EPA with these large air-cooled engines. Soon they won't even be able to meet the requirements at all. That day will be the end of HD air-cooled bikes, and subsequently will all be water-cooled from then on IMO. ;)

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #61 on: November 21, 2008, 05:59:06 PM »

More about meeting EPA with these large air-cooled engines. Soon they won't even be able to meet the requirements at all. That day will be the end of HD air-cooled bikes, and subsequently will all be water-cooled from then on IMO. ;)

Hoist! 8)

Sorry buddy, I don't agree. So long as H-D can meet EPA regs by bolting up a catalytic converter or whatever, they're not going to veer off course from what has gotten them to where they're at. All you need to do is track V-Rod model sales to see that the H-D buying public as a whole is not ready for a radiator only model line-up. I fully expect to see the current TC motors to reach 124 CID at some point in the not too distant future. What I don't expect is a water cooled Electra-Glide anytime soon.

B B
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #62 on: November 21, 2008, 06:03:10 PM »

Sorry buddy, I don't agree. So long as H-D can meet EPA regs by bolting up a catalytic converter or whatever, they're not going to veer off course from what has gotten them to where they're at. All you need to do is track V-Rod model sales to see that the H-D buying public as a whole is not ready for a radiator only model line-up. I fully expect to see the current TC motors to reach 124 CID at some point in the not too distant future. What I don't expect is a water cooled Electra-Glide anytime soon.

B B

Carnac says we shall wait and see now! ;D ;)

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #63 on: November 21, 2008, 06:22:51 PM »


I'd say both of you are headed in the right direction.

BB, your point about the Vroad is a good one but what about a Vrod motor (or some variation) in a bagger.

You can't buy a water cooled bagger from Harley for one reason, They don't make one!
Hoist is right about meeting requirements. It is getting tougher each year. Water cooled is the only answer.

After a few years of W/C dressers we all will be riding antiques.

And for me, that will be fine.

SERG, SEEG, SEUC any of those will get me where I want to go till my 2013 Anniversary Screaming Eagle w/c dresser gets here!

JMHO

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #64 on: November 21, 2008, 06:25:38 PM »

Sorry buddy, I don't agree. So long as H-D can meet EPA regs by bolting up a catalytic converter or whatever, they're not going to veer off course from what has gotten them to where they're at. All you need to do is track V-Rod model sales to see that the H-D buying public as a whole is not ready for a radiator only model line-up. I fully expect to see the current TC motors to reach 124 CID at some point in the not too distant future. What I don't expect is a water cooled Electra-Glide anytime soon.

B B
I agree and disagree with you on this one BB.  I agree that the air-cooled aren't going away anytime soon, but disagree that we're not going to see a water-cooled bagger anytime soon.  The reason the V-Rod line is not the big seller yet is they have no diversity in the line up.  They're all sport cruisers designed to capture the younger buyer.  Harley knows where their bread and butter is, or at least was before the recession; the touring line.  What I think will happen is they will phase more water-cooled models into the line-up including baggers.  I don't think we'll see a V-Rod type bagger, but a more traditional-framed water-cooled one.  I see HD phasing in a full line of water-cooled bikes that will co-exist with the air-cooled ones for as long as HD can keep up with the EPA.   JMO

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timo482

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #65 on: November 21, 2008, 07:37:15 PM »

at 110 inch the piston skirts start having issues - 124's have huge cutouts in the skirts between the cylinders..

there is NO WAY to get much bigger for bikes intended to be ridden every day - at least in 45 deg twins.

the water cooled bikes are putting out 124 size hp numbers with sportster size displacement.

the day will come where they are oil or water cooled - the only question is when - 2 years, 5 years - when.

the domestic competitors are oil cooled already, but look like they are air cooled.

to
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2008, 06:39:17 AM »

This may have been noted elsewhere on the board - the MoCo is stating "Air-cooled, Twin Cam 110™" & "Air-cooled, Twin Cam 96®" in their specs.  Not sure why one is "™" & the other is "®"? 

Indicates a possible change in engine cooling when you notice "air" as a descriptor.  Figure HD will do what it can to keep air cooled bikes in the lineup - at least some models.  The oil or air cooled motor seems inevitable for some HD models with ever increasing engine cu inch displacements.
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VaEagle

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2008, 09:36:54 PM »

I think many have mentioned the changes in the future and only a few know what will be the reality.
I can see the idea of "dual versions" of certain classes of bikes, If Harley has both standard air cooled bikes they can sell to the traditional but aging customer base. Then they could sell the water cooled bikes to those who don't mind change or to younger customers who are used to more horsepower and dependability.
If the air cooled bikes get harder to run due to EPA regulations and have problems like the 110s then many customers will look at a water cooled bike as a "necessary" move to get a dependable long distance bike. This could be one way to get the older more traditional owners to move to a new design.
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serghaven

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2008, 11:53:42 AM »

Just got the call that my SERG will be here sometime in early February.  :bananarock:  Now for the sleepless nights waiting for it to arrive.
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GregKhougaz

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #69 on: November 24, 2008, 02:16:15 PM »

Just got the call that my SERG will be here sometime in early February.  :bananarock:  Now for the sleepless nights waiting for it to arrive.

Congratultions, serghaven !   Saw a silver SERG last night (only the second I've seen).  You certainly have more patience than I.  Of course, the snow up there in Circle Pines, MN probably curtails your riding until at least Feb.  I once jogged across Lake Minnetonka (sp?).  Just think of how much time you can plan your mods & order parts.  The fun has just begun!!

GK
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #70 on: November 25, 2008, 09:36:15 AM »

you are not alone serghaven!! there is a bunch of us that are red eyed and sleepy waiting on the new scooter.  :-X
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navdav51

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #71 on: November 25, 2008, 04:58:20 PM »

Well my silver serg wont be here till March! I know I made the right choice, my signif. other however is starting to have her doubts! Started when I showed her the scream'n eagle shift linkage I saw on here and told her to hand me the credit card!
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #72 on: November 25, 2008, 05:49:06 PM »

Well my silver serg wont be here till March! I know I made the right choice, my signif. other however is starting to have her doubts! Started when I showed her the scream'n eagle shift linkage I saw on here and told her to hand me the credit card!

 :D :D :D :D :D.... That's funny!... If only she knew

The shift linkage is only the beginning.  Everyone here will help you spend $$$ on a regular basis :D
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1abastarsmda

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #73 on: November 25, 2008, 08:21:26 PM »

I don't think that you are supposed to let her know when you get parts for the bike.  When she notices the new parts (which she won't), then you have to think quickly on your feet to come up with just the right answer.  Remember, every time you spend money on the bike, she sees money that could have been spent on a new pair of shoes or a big tricked out name tag. (I'm assuming you saw the commercial...if not, I'm not explaining).
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #74 on: November 25, 2008, 09:26:25 PM »

I don't think that you are supposed to let her know when you get parts for the bike.  When she notices the new parts (which she won't), then you have to think quickly on your feet to come up with just the right answer.  Remember, every time you spend money on the bike, she sees money that could have been spent on a new pair of shoes or a big tricked out name tag. (I'm assuming you saw the commercial...if not, I'm not explaining).

Binx knows everything I do to all of the bikes! Everything I do to the bikes is for HER comfort and safety! Even on the solo seat ones!!! ::) ;D ;D ;D ;) :2vrolijk_21:

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #75 on: November 26, 2008, 04:49:49 AM »

Since my wife rides her own, 05 softail deluxe, adding parts is easy for me as long as I add some to her bike. As I/we buy parts we put them on the bottom shelf of the shop cart. When it's full enough it's time to wrench it. And right now it's full so a turkey day in the garage, except for when the Titans game is on.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #76 on: November 26, 2008, 08:13:13 PM »

so it falls in the lines of its easier to get the parts and then ask for forgiveness than to let her know from the get go??  Sure hope we can change some plans around so we can be in AR in may so I can meet some of you that dispense your wisdom to the new guys on here! lamo
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littlejohn480

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #77 on: November 29, 2008, 10:37:05 PM »

I just purchased two Harley Screamin Eagles...  the 2008 105th / S.T. Springer and the   DYNA !!! 


NO REGRETS ABOUT OWNING A HOG,, EVER....    What ever has a lot of soul , has a lot of problems...  Hogs are built with a lot of love and need to be loved.

You will never see a yamaguchi blog with any thing to talk about, because they are boooooring...... yawn ,,( excuse me ) rides.  I am new to this site. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to express my feelings about my bikes. It is true that the 110 CVO Engine has some issues. I believe that the warranty and recalls will address the issues. The E.P.A. Lean mix requirements are causing some of the problem, it causes the bike to run hotter... I understand that the head gaskets are failing, because they used an inferior gasket. Don't worry Harley will take care of you.
Some people have modded their bike with racing cams etc. Harley does not like to honor warranty's under these circumstances. That is unfortunate. This bike does not need to be modified it is a work of art . Change the pipes and dyno tune. thats all.
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Godeater

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #78 on: November 30, 2008, 12:10:18 AM »

Problem isn't so much the gaskets, its more the sleeve moving slightly.  I believe there are some older post under 110 issues that have pics.  A gasket alone will never be a permant fix for this.  Gaskets are old tech been around for long time, hard to think that if they don't leak on every other Harley motor made, why in the world would they leak on the 110 alone?  Don't let them fool you.
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serghaven

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #79 on: November 30, 2008, 01:31:28 AM »

Well the parts list has started. Removing the CC (lucky for me my dealer just did a BB kit on a different bike and I am getting the pipe off that one)  :bananarock: I also ordered a SERT, Hog Tunes, Adjustable passenger boards, and a few extra chrome pieces. I am going to replace the seat (probably with a Corbin). I have a couple other things to figure out after I get the bike in February. I need to see how the bars feel. On my Road King I removed the stock ones right away so, I assume I will remove these as well. I also need to figure out what size clear view shield to order. If all goes well, I hope to head south shortly after I get it for some riding.  :bananarock: :bananarock:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #80 on: November 30, 2008, 09:50:03 AM »

Well, it doesn't sound like you're wondering anymore....if you're making the right decision.  Sounds like you're running with your decision WFO :2vrolijk_21:
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serghaven

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #81 on: November 30, 2008, 01:18:16 PM »

Yes, I'm going full speed ahead. After hearing from some of the guys on here saying that most of the problems are "self induced" I decided to go with it. Yes, I am buying the extended warranty too.
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skreminegul07

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #82 on: November 30, 2008, 04:50:24 PM »

I just purchased two Harley Screamin Eagles...  the 2008 105th / S.T. Springer and the   DYNA !!! 


NO REGRETS ABOUT OWNING A HOG,, EVER....    What ever has a lot of soul , has a lot of problems...  Hogs are built with a lot of love and need to be loved.

You will never see a yamaguchi blog with any thing to talk about, because they are boooooring...... yawn ,,( excuse me ) rides.  I am new to this site. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to express my feelings about my bikes. It is true that the 110 CVO Engine has some issues. I believe that the warranty and recalls will address the issues. The E.P.A. Lean mix requirements are causing some of the problem, it causes the bike to run hotter... I understand that the head gaskets are failing, because they used an inferior gasket. Don't worry Harley will take care of you.
Some people have modded their bike with racing cams etc. Harley does not like to honor warranty's under these circumstances. That is unfortunate. This bike does not need to be modified it is a work of art . Change the pipes and dyno tune. thats all.

Changing the pipes can and will void the warranty when you go toe to toe with HD (have it in writing to me personally, not in some brochure).   Welcome to the site.  I had the same attitude 2 years and two motors ago.
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littlejohn480

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #83 on: December 01, 2008, 08:24:51 AM »

I am , of course in the honey moon stage.... I am sure, you are correct about what will be very frustrating a few k miles down the road. Seems everybody has a bone to pick with Harley about CVO 11OCi Engine.

I choose to remain faithful to the notion , that Harley actually cares about which side it's bread has butter....  I. E.  THE CUSTOMER... YOU KNOW,, THE PERSON WHO FILLS OUT THAT CHECK EVERY MONTH TO PAY

FOR THE HOG THATS ALWAYS IN THE SHOP FOR LEAKS AND PROBLEMS THAT OTHERWISE SHOULD BE RESOLVED.   Thank you for the reality check skreminegulo7  Hopeful that things will work out with Harley in the

near future.     
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RedDevil

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #84 on: December 01, 2008, 09:51:14 AM »

I am , of course in the honey moon stage.... I am sure, you are correct about what will be very frustrating a few k miles down the road. Seems everybody has a bone to pick with Harley about CVO 11OCi Engine.

I choose to remain faithful to the notion , that Harley actually cares about which side it's bread has butter....  I. E.  THE CUSTOMER... YOU KNOW,, THE PERSON WHO FILLS OUT THAT CHECK EVERY MONTH TO PAY

FOR THE HOG THATS ALWAYS IN THE SHOP FOR LEAKS AND PROBLEMS THAT OTHERWISE SHOULD BE RESOLVED.   Thank you for the reality check skreminegulo7  Hopeful that things will work out with Harley in the

near future.     
Littlejohn,
Don't let the nay-sayers get to you.  Everyone has a beef with something.  It seems corporate bashing is the rage today.  Like someone said earlier, most of the issues people have with HD were brought on by themselves.  That's not to say that there wasn't a QC issue with the first batch of 110 engines.  I think Harley, in their inevitable way, without admitting guilt, did what they did, and are taking care of their customers.  It took a long time, in some people's books, and maybe not to everyone's satisfaction, but they came through.  I don't regret for a minute buying my SEUC, and I'd buy it again if I had to do it all over again.  I've had the product enhancement done and it's been in the shop two times for the heads, but so what? It all goes away everytime I fire up that 110 and hear the rumble of those V&H ovals, throw a leg over the saddle and get my face in the wind.  No company's perfect and I've had my beef with them too, bet there are some folks that wouldn't be happy unless they're b*tchin about the MoCo.  JMO.

   :devil:
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iski

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #85 on: December 01, 2008, 09:58:38 AM »

Littlejohn,
Don't let the nay-sayers get to you.  Everyone has a beef with something.  It seems corporate bashing is the rage today.  Like someone said earlier, most of the issues people have with HD were brought on by themselves.  That's not to say that there wasn't a QC issue with the first batch of 110 engines.  I think Harley, in their inevitable way, without admitting guilt, did what they did, and are taking care of their customers.  It took a long time, in some people's books, and maybe not to everyone's satisfaction, but they came through.  I don't regret for a minute buying my SEUC, and I'd buy it again if I had to do it all over again.  I've had the product enhancement done and it's been in the shop two times for the heads, but so what? It all goes away everytime I fire up that 110 and hear the rumble of those V&H ovals, throw a leg over the saddle and get my face in the wind.  No company's perfect and I've had my beef with them too, bet there are some folks that wouldn't be happy unless they're b*tchin about the MoCo.  JMO.

   :devil:


Very well said, RD.  LJ, my bike has has 2 engine "repairs" & would I buy it again?  You betcha, in a New York minute.  It's a great bike, a great ride, and on Saturday as I was riding home I thought to myself - 20 years ago if somebody had told me I would be riding a 110 cu inch HD @ 1?? mph with an electric butt warmer seat, electric hand warmer grips, and tunes cranked up to "11" I woulda laughed at 'em.  But they would have been right.  Still trying to wipe that smile off my face.  Enjoy your new ride, when you get the chance!

Mike
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #86 on: December 01, 2008, 10:31:29 AM »

Littlejohn,
Don't let the nay-sayers get to you.  Everyone has a beef with something.  It seems corporate bashing is the rage today.  Like someone said earlier, most of the issues people have with HD were brought on by themselves.  That's not to say that there wasn't a QC issue with the first batch of 110 engines.  I think Harley, in their inevitable way, without admitting guilt, did what they did, and are taking care of their customers.  It took a long time, in some people's books, and maybe not to everyone's satisfaction, but they came through.  I don't regret for a minute buying my SEUC, and I'd buy it again if I had to do it all over again.  I've had the product enhancement done and it's been in the shop two times for the heads, but so what? It all goes away everytime I fire up that 110 and hear the rumble of those V&H ovals, throw a leg over the saddle and get my face in the wind.  No company's perfect and I've had my beef with them too, bet there are some folks that wouldn't be happy unless they're b*tchin about the MoCo.   JMO.

   :devil:

Charlie, as Mike said "Well said".
We all have our issues but we get them taken care of and move on ride on!

SBB

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #87 on: December 01, 2008, 06:44:14 PM »

Littlejohn,
Don't let the nay-sayers get to you.  Everyone has a beef with something.  It seems corporate bashing is the rage today.  Like someone said earlier, most of the issues people have with HD were brought on by themselves.  That's not to say that there wasn't a QC issue with the first batch of 110 engines.  I think Harley, in their inevitable way, without admitting guilt, did what they did, and are taking care of their customers.  It took a long time, in some people's books, and maybe not to everyone's satisfaction, but they came through.  I don't regret for a minute buying my SEUC, and I'd buy it again if I had to do it all over again.  I've had the product enhancement done and it's been in the shop two times for the heads, but so what? It all goes away everytime I fire up that 110 and hear the rumble of those V&H ovals, throw a leg over the saddle and get my face in the wind.  No company's perfect and I've had my beef with them too, bet there are some folks that wouldn't be happy unless they're b*tchin about the MoCo.  JMO.

   :devil:

You're kidding right?  How did we cause cylinder liners to slip and cause head gasket leaks, or the crank to shift on motors that were 100% stock in under 5000 miles?  Get your head out of the clouds and stop drinking the orange and black kool aid.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #88 on: December 01, 2008, 07:00:30 PM »

You're kidding right?  How did we cause cylinder liners to slip and cause head gasket leaks, or the crank to shift on motors that were 100% stock in under 5000 miles?  Get your head out of the clouds and stop drinking the orange and black kool aid.
Nope, not kidding at all.  I challenge you to give me the numbers of 100% STOCK 110's that had problems...remember I said 100% STOCK, like you said.  That means narry a pipe, A/C or tuner...100% off the assembly line stock.  I never said the MoCo didn't have QC problems on the early 110's...read my post completely.  Some people just have to have something to B*tch about or they ain't happy.  By the way, I like Orange and Black cool aid.   :P

  :devil:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #89 on: December 01, 2008, 08:03:47 PM »

Nope, not kidding at all.  I challenge you to give me the numbers of 100% STOCK 110's that had problems...remember I said 100% STOCK, like you said.  That means narry a pipe, A/C or tuner...100% off the assembly line stock.  I never said the MoCo didn't have QC problems on the early 110's...read my post completely.  Some people just have to have something to B*tch about or they ain't happy.  By the way, I like Orange and Black cool aid.   :P

  :devil:

The crank was bad on mine 100% stock.  I'd still like to know how an air cleaner and exhaust cause a crank to scissor, and a cylinder liner to slip?  Are you a mechanical engineer?

How come only the 110" motors are having issues with these "major modifications" that have been added for years on the 80", 88", 95", 103" without needing a product improvement program to replace heads, ACRs, head gaskets, lower base gaskets, rocker boxes?  The main reason people richen the bikes up is to make them last longer.  This is a bad design with poor quality control, and a bad case of denial, period.

blaming the owners is just plain B/S.  Some motors leaked at under 1000 miles, one had no oil return passage in the head, and we only see a limited number of owners on this site.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #90 on: December 01, 2008, 08:21:53 PM »

The crank was bad on mine 100% stock.  I'd still like to know how an air cleaner and exhaust cause a crank to scissor, and a cylinder liner to slip?  Are you a mechanical engineer?

How come only the 110" motors are having issues with these "major modifications" that have been added for years on the 80", 88", 95", 103" without needing a product improvement program to replace heads, ACRs, head gaskets, lower base gaskets, rocker boxes?  The main reason people richen the bikes up is to make them last longer.  This is a bad design with poor quality control, and a bad case of denial, period.

blaming the owners is just plain B/S.  Some motors leaked at under 1000 miles, one had no oil return passage in the head, and we only see a limited number of owners on this site.

Like I said Screamin...QC was not their strong point on the early 110s...Go over to the other HD related forums and you'll see other owners having problems with their non-110 engines.  I don't think there's been an HD motor designed that hasn't had some sort of problem...I had a drive shaft go bad on a Gold Wing, guess that makes all driveshafts bad on Goldwings.  Don't need to be a mechanical engineer to know that everything mechanical is susceptable to failure.  So you've had more than others.  Sorry you had a crankshaft scissors on you, but you know what, chit happens.    If you read my post again, I stated that most of the issues people have with their bikes, all inclusive, not just 110s, are brought on by themselves and that's not BS, whether you want to agree with that or not.  The 110 has had it's share of problems, and they're being worked out.  Ride your bike and enjoy it, or sell it, makes no nevermind to me.  Life rolls on for me. 

  :devil:
« Last Edit: December 01, 2008, 08:24:16 PM by RedDevil »
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #91 on: December 02, 2008, 09:07:47 AM »

Like I said Screamin...QC was not their strong point on the early 110s...Go over to the other HD related forums and you'll see other owners having problems with their non-110 engines.  I don't think there's been an HD motor designed that hasn't had some sort of problem...I had a drive shaft go bad on a Gold Wing, guess that makes all driveshafts bad on Goldwings.  Don't need to be a mechanical engineer to know that everything mechanical is susceptable to failure.  So you've had more than others.  Sorry you had a crankshaft scissors on you, but you know what, chit happens.    If you read my post again, I stated that most of the issues people have with their bikes, all inclusive, not just 110s, are brought on by themselves and that's not BS, whether you want to agree with that or not.  The 110 has had it's share of problems, and they're being worked out.  Ride your bike and enjoy it, or sell it, makes no nevermind to me.  Life rolls on for me. 

  :devil:

Agree NOT.  As I stated earlier, these numerous problems are part of the 110 only, without owner intervention.  Go back look at the posts in Twin Cam, the threads on the 110 dwarf any other engine model.  Apparently no owners of 80, 88,95,103, or 96 do any mods to their engines, we're talking air filters and mufflers here, not cams.

Goog luck, hope Santa Claus is good to you.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #92 on: December 02, 2008, 10:46:24 AM »

That may be because for the last 3 years, the CVO's have had a 110 engine.  Hello!  This is the CVO forum.  Seriously, how many members were there when the 2006 came out back in 2005?  A mere fraction of today's membership.  I have no figures to support this, but I think it's a pretty good bet that there are more members on here with 110 engines on their CVO's than any other engine size, and at this point probably followed by a very distant second for 103".  Again, this is the CVO forum.  How many posts were you expecting for 80" motors on here?

Everyone is aware of the problem with head gaskets, which the MOCO has issued the recall on, and have corrected on further production.  I don't care what type of car you own, when you take it in for service, that's one of the things the dealer should be checking for on every visit...any new recalls for your vehicle.

I grew up in the auto parts business, and I am thankful that cars broke down, or I may not have had such an advantaged life.  Yes, there were some items that you could pretty much count on going wrong on a certain vehicle, and then there were the items that were anyone's guess as far as when the next person might need that part.  It seems to me that the 110 engine is very similar.  You could anticipate that pretty much everyone was going to experience the problem with head gaskets at some point and the MOCO has stepped in.  Other failures don't seem to be so predictable.  Of course, someone out there is going to have everything possible happen to them on one bike and that could cause a pretty bitter attitude.  That's what it would do to me. 

As far as where this post has come from, I tend to also agree that a lot of the problems are caused by the owners of the bikes.  I was always told to just leave these bikes alone before ever messing with anything that changes the compression.  I was always told that once you do that, forget ever getting one of these bikes to run properly again.  Well, we all know that this is not necessarily true, but think where that logic came from.  Lots of backyard mechanics, much like many of us, that tinkered without really having the proper sophistication to attempt the modification at hand.  Then being too stubborn to take the bike somewhere to resolve the issue properly, or just the plain unavailability of someone knowing how to reverse what was done wrong.  Anyway, to make a long story short here, I really think that if I could just leave my bike alone, completely stock, with no changes to anything, I would feel extremely confident that I could ride for many many years on my 110 engine and have no problems.  Once I start tinkering with just the exhaust and intake, and then tweaking the ECM, I have already lowered my confidence level of whether I will ever have any problems with my bike.  I'm not one that could ever let a bike go stock, so I'll always expect the unexpected, since I made changes to the way the bike came.  Well, I have things to go get done, so I have to end my little rant here.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #93 on: December 02, 2008, 10:56:40 AM »

That may be because for the last 3 years, the CVO's have had a 110 engine.  Hello!  This is the CVO forum.  Seriously, how many members were there when the 2006 came out back in 2005?  A mere fraction of today's membership.  I have no figures to support this, but I think it's a pretty good bet that there are more members on here with 110 engines on their CVO's than any other engine size, and at this point probably followed by a very distant second for 103".  Again, this is the CVO forum.  How many posts were you expecting for 80" motors on here?

Everyone is aware of the problem with head gaskets, which the MOCO has issued the recall on, and have corrected on further production.  I don't care what type of car you own, when you take it in for service, that's one of the things the dealer should be checking for on every visit...any new recalls for your vehicle.

I grew up in the auto parts business, and I am thankful that cars broke down, or I may not have had such an advantaged life.  Yes, there were some items that you could pretty much count on going wrong on a certain vehicle, and then there were the items that were anyone's guess as far as when the next person might need that part.  It seems to me that the 110 engine is very similar.  You could anticipate that pretty much everyone was going to experience the problem with head gaskets at some point and the MOCO has stepped in.  Other failures don't seem to be so predictable.  Of course, someone out there is going to have everything possible happen to them on one bike and that could cause a pretty bitter attitude.  That's what it would do to me. 

As far as where this post has come from, I tend to also agree that a lot of the problems are caused by the owners of the bikes.  I was always told to just leave these bikes alone before ever messing with anything that changes the compression.  I was always told that once you do that, forget ever getting one of these bikes to run properly again.  Well, we all know that this is not necessarily true, but think where that logic came from.  Lots of backyard mechanics, much like many of us, that tinkered without really having the proper sophistication to attempt the modification at hand.  Then being too stubborn to take the bike somewhere to resolve the issue properly, or just the plain unavailability of someone knowing how to reverse what was done wrong.  Anyway, to make a long story short here, I really think that if I could just leave my bike alone, completely stock, with no changes to anything, I would feel extremely confident that I could ride for many many years on my 110 engine and have no problems.  Once I start tinkering with just the exhaust and intake, and then tweaking the ECM, I have already lowered my confidence level of whether I will ever have any problems with my bike.  I'm not one that could ever let a bike go stock, so I'll always expect the unexpected, since I made changes to the way the bike came.  Well, I have things to go get done, so I have to end my little rant here.

I love reading naive posts! ::) ;D ;D ;D

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #94 on: December 02, 2008, 11:06:38 AM »

That may be because for the last 3 years, the CVO's have had a 110 engine.  Hello!  This is the CVO forum.  Seriously, how many members were there when the 2006 came out back in 2005?  A mere fraction of today's membership.  I have no figures to support this, but I think it's a pretty good bet that there are more members on here with 110 engines on their CVO's than any other engine size, and at this point probably followed by a very distant second for 103".  Again, this is the CVO forum.  How many posts were you expecting for 80" motors on here?

Everyone is aware of the problem with head gaskets, which the MOCO has issued the recall on, and have corrected on further production.  I don't care what type of car you own, when you take it in for service, that's one of the things the dealer should be checking for on every visit...any new recalls for your vehicle.

I grew up in the auto parts business, and I am thankful that cars broke down, or I may not have had such an advantaged life.  Yes, there were some items that you could pretty much count on going wrong on a certain vehicle, and then there were the items that were anyone's guess as far as when the next person might need that part.  It seems to me that the 110 engine is very similar.  You could anticipate that pretty much everyone was going to experience the problem with head gaskets at some point and the MOCO has stepped in.  Other failures don't seem to be so predictable.  Of course, someone out there is going to have everything possible happen to them on one bike and that could cause a pretty bitter attitude.   That's what it would do to me. 

As far as where this post has come from, I tend to also agree that a lot of the problems are caused by the owners of the bikes.  I was always told to just leave these bikes alone before ever messing with anything that changes the compression.  I was always told that once you do that, forget ever getting one of these bikes to run properly again.  Well, we all know that this is not necessarily true, but think where that logic came from.  Lots of backyard mechanics, much like many of us, that tinkered without really having the proper sophistication to attempt the modification at hand.  Then being too stubborn to take the bike somewhere to resolve the issue properly, or just the plain unavailability of someone knowing how to reverse what was done wrong.  Anyway, to make a long story short here, I really think that if I could just leave my bike alone, completely stock, with no changes to anything, I would feel extremely confident that I could ride for many many years on my 110 engine and have no problems.  Once I start tinkering with just the exhaust and intake, and then tweaking the ECM, I have already lowered my confidence level of whether I will ever have any problems with my bike.  I'm not one that could ever let a bike go stock, so I'll always expect the unexpected, since I made changes to the way the bike came.  Well, I have things to go get done, so I have to end my little rant here.


ABA

I have already reported you to the Mo Co.
They wanted to know what you did that justified having your vin blocked and your warranty not honored.
I told them the truth.
"He removed the reflector on his rear fender!"
They were appalled.
Devastated.
Total disbelief.
You better find you a good independent, your toast at the Mo Co now.


 :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #95 on: December 02, 2008, 11:08:41 AM »

And I almost took that reflector off last night except hot wings, beer and football distracted me...Still stock..I am adding an Ipod holder.... :'(
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #96 on: December 02, 2008, 11:09:59 AM »

I love reading naive posts! ::) ;D ;D ;D

Hoist! 8)

Hoist

Everybody has to start somewhere!
If I recall there was a few post from you about the "two year warranty"
Did I say a few?

 :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:

He will learn!
Give him time.
He's picking up on all this stuff very quick!

 :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #97 on: December 02, 2008, 11:11:33 AM »

And I almost took that reflector off last night except hot wings, beer and football distracted me...Still stock..I am adding an Ipod holder.... :'(


Your safe for now!
Just make sure the Ipod has Harley Davidson Road Songs on it and all is fine!

 :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #98 on: December 02, 2008, 11:15:31 AM »


Your safe for now!
Just make sure the Ipod has Harley Davidson Road Songs on it and all is fine!

 :2vrolijk_21:

Oh no, I don't have them!  Gaaaa!  Woe is me, a pox, a pox! 

But it is metallic silver and matches the bike nicely...

So I have that going for me at least.... :P
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #99 on: December 02, 2008, 11:22:08 AM »

Hoist

Everybody has to start somewhere!
If I recall there was a few post from you about the "two year warranty"
Did I say a few?

 :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:

He will learn!
Give him time.
He's picking up on all this stuff very quick!

 :2vrolijk_21:

Exactly where I'm coming from! We learn from experience and hope to save the next batch from repeating history!!! ;)

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #100 on: December 02, 2008, 11:23:00 AM »

Exactly where I'm coming from! We learn from experience and hope to save the next batch from repeating history!!! ;)

Hoist! 8)



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1abastarsmda

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #101 on: December 02, 2008, 11:35:24 AM »


ABA

I have already reported you to the Mo Co.
They wanted to know what you did that justified having your vin blocked and your warranty not honored.
I told them the truth.
"He removed the reflector on his rear fender!"
They were appalled.
Devastated.
Total disbelief.
You better find you a good independent, your toast at the Mo Co now.
 :2vrolijk_21:

Chuckle, Chuckle!  Last night when I was speaking to the sales manager at the dealer, I told him that I needed to get a license bracket with a red reflector in it right away.  When he questioned the urgency, I told him that my bike didn't come with a rear reflector at all.  I told him not to worry about it, since the license frame will cover me.  Just keeping one step ahead of them and hoping they don't read this.  As far as Hoist's comment, I'm just going to ignore that and pretend I never saw it.  I think this thread has already seen enough of a pissing contest going on.
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skreminegul07

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #102 on: December 02, 2008, 12:23:35 PM »

That may be because for the last 3 years, the CVO's have had a 110 engine.  Hello!  This is the CVO forum.  Seriously, how many members were there when the 2006 came out back in 2005?  A mere fraction of today's membership.  I have no figures to support this, but I think it's a pretty good bet that there are more members on here with 110 engines on their CVO's than any other engine size, and at this point probably followed by a very distant second for 103".  Again, this is the CVO forum.  How many posts were you expecting for 80" motors on here?

Everyone is aware of the problem with head gaskets, which the MOCO has issued the recall on, and have corrected on further production.  I don't care what type of car you own, when you take it in for service, that's one of the things the dealer should be checking for on every visit...any new recalls for your vehicle.

I grew up in the auto parts business, and I am thankful that cars broke down, or I may not have had such an advantaged life.  Yes, there were some items that you could pretty much count on going wrong on a certain vehicle, and then there were the items that were anyone's guess as far as when the next person might need that part.  It seems to me that the 110 engine is very similar.  You could anticipate that pretty much everyone was going to experience the problem with head gaskets at some point and the MOCO has stepped in.  Other failures don't seem to be so predictable.  Of course, someone out there is going to have everything possible happen to them on one bike and that could cause a pretty bitter attitude.  That's what it would do to me. 

As far as where this post has come from, I tend to also agree that a lot of the problems are caused by the owners of the bikes.  I was always told to just leave these bikes alone before ever messing with anything that changes the compression.  I was always told that once you do that, forget ever getting one of these bikes to run properly again.  Well, we all know that this is not necessarily true, but think where that logic came from.  Lots of backyard mechanics, much like many of us, that tinkered without really having the proper sophistication to attempt the modification at hand.  Then being too stubborn to take the bike somewhere to resolve the issue properly, or just the plain unavailability of someone knowing how to reverse what was done wrong.  Anyway, to make a long story short here, I really think that if I could just leave my bike alone, completely stock, with no changes to anything, I would feel extremely confident that I could ride for many many years on my 110 engine and have no problems.  Once I start tinkering with just the exhaust and intake, and then tweaking the ECM, I have already lowered my confidence level of whether I will ever have any problems with my bike.  I'm not one that could ever let a bike go stock, so I'll always expect the unexpected, since I made changes to the way the bike came.  Well, I have things to go get done, so I have to end my little rant here.

It wasn't bad gaskets, the gaskets were revised (4 times) to hide the cylinder slipping issues.  You need to catch up on your reading. It wasn't a recall either.  It was a Product Improvement Progaram. 
How many other motors had specs changed to allow poor quality after one year of production? 
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skreminegul07

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #103 on: December 02, 2008, 12:25:45 PM »

I love reading naive posts! ::) ;D ;D ;D

Hoist! 8)

I'm too easily baited by this type of comment I guess, especially from someone that hasn't had any issues...yet!
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #104 on: December 02, 2008, 12:27:42 PM »

It wasn't bad gaskets, the gaskets were revised (4 times) to hide the cylinder slipping issues.  You need to catch up on your reading. It wasn't a recall either.  It was a Product Improvement Progaram. 
How many other motors had specs changed to allow poor quality after one year of production? 

And crank runout extended from 0.003" to 0.012" since the 110 was first introduced! Yes, it's on the 96's also. But these big inch motors needed extra care when being designed, which these engines did not receive until they were failing left and right! :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #105 on: December 02, 2008, 04:26:41 PM »

host what exactly is crank run out? my mechanic has used this term a few times and i would like to understand. he also has said something about pins in the crank shearing after the motor has been built, so he has been welding them so they don't break. (all the new motors not just 110's).thanks  :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #106 on: December 02, 2008, 04:44:11 PM »

  Exactly my point.  ITS NOT A GASKET ISSUE, DON'T BE FOOL OR FOOLED.  The cyl liners move.  This is the very basic thing on a harley motor, and yet they are bad.  Nothing to do with gaskets Nothing!!
There is a interlockng bore in the cylinder before the liner is instered.  If done right no problem, if done wrong have a Screamin Eagle 110/leaker.  Its amazing, the folks I know that replace there stock jugs with after markets 110's have NEVER had another issue. 

Crank run out is like well have a high speed drill with a bent shaft.  Just try and hold it straight and feel how much it shakes your whole body around.  Now imagine having a oil pump on one end and your stator and pri drive on the other while that is running out of tru at 1000-6000+ rpm.  Sooner or later something will break do to extra pressure on the weaker roller they replaced the timkin with or your cam plate/oil pump will go.  They are making them cheaper by charging us more.  Then putting a 50 cent bandaid on a gaping hole of an issue and selling it to you as a fix.  I love my Harley but doesn't mean I will bend over for the MOCO.  Some like it that way I guess.  Never believe they don't know hwat the issue is with the 110's.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #107 on: December 02, 2008, 04:45:28 PM »

Sorry about the bad grammer and spelling, typed out on a black berry while doing 10 other things.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #108 on: December 02, 2008, 04:50:47 PM »

  Exactly my point.  ITS NOT A GASKET ISSUE, DON'T BE FOOL OR FOOLED.  The cyl liners move.  This is the very basic thing on a harley motor, and yet they are bad.  Nothing to do with gaskets Nothing!!
There is a interlockng bore in the cylinder before the liner is instered.  If done right no problem, if done wrong have a Screamin Eagle 110/leaker.  Its amazing, the folks I know that replace there stock jugs with after markets 110's have NEVER had another issue. 

Crank run out is like well have a high speed drill with a bent shaft.  Just try and hold it straight and feel how much it shakes your whole body around.  Now imagine having a oil pump on one end and your stator and pri drive on the other while that is running out of tru at 1000-6000+ rpm.  Sooner or later something will break do to extra pressure on the weaker roller they replaced the timkin with or your cam plate/oil pump will go.  They are making them cheaper by charging us more.  Then putting a 50 cent bandaid on a gaping hole of an issue and selling it to you as a fix.  I love my Harley but doesn't mean I will bend over for the MOCO.  Some like it that way I guess.  Never believe they don't know hwat the issue is with the 110's.

My new hero!!! Thanks for explaining it for me! Couldn't have said it ALL better myself! I was starting to think that somehow the B & O Cool Aid got mysteriously dumped in the CVOHarley water supply! :nixweiss: ;D ;)

Hoist! 8)
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Black Diamond

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #109 on: December 02, 2008, 05:07:08 PM »

Unfortunately the lessons of life are generally learned when they happen to you. Until then it's just stuff you read on the internet...and we know you can't believe that!  ;D





Oh BTW...Axtell cylinder liners don't seem to move!

JW
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #110 on: December 02, 2008, 05:33:53 PM »

And crank runout extended from 0.003" to 0.012" since the 110 was first introduced! Yes, it's on the 96's also. But these big inch motors needed extra care when being designed, which these engines did not receive until they were failing left and right! :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:

Hoist! 8)

So, is crank runout still a problem or not?  I remember having someone mention that I should have that checked before.  Does extending from .003" to .012" solve the problem or is this still an issue?
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miker

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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #111 on: December 02, 2008, 05:54:50 PM »

Old long shaft stock will be used up and is allowed to 12thou according to HD ....
There is a tech bulletin for the 09's on my other computer, I'll post it tomorrow unless someone here has it.  So yes 12thou is still allowable even on "early" 09's... ???
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #112 on: December 02, 2008, 06:09:16 PM »

Old long shaft stock will be used up and is allowed to 12thou according to HD ....
There is a tech bulletin for the 09's on my other computer, I'll post it tomorrow unless someone here has it.  So yes 12thou is still allowable even on "early" 09's... ???

So, is crank runout still a problem or not?  I remember having someone mention that I should have that checked before.  Does extending from .003" to .012" solve the problem or is this still an issue?

And that does not mean it's not, or won't become an issue. No builder in their right mind will build a motor at 0.012" crank runout. Just cause their new cam tensioner system might be able to withstand that much wobble, doesn't mean the oil pump and stator can take that kinda abuse! And you'll really feel that kinda runout in the form of vibration too! So according to HD your safe. But in real life..... :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:

STF!!! ;)

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #113 on: December 02, 2008, 06:28:29 PM »

So, is there a fix for the runout?  I'm now understanding that what they have done is actually increase the tolerance to allow for worse runout as acceptable, when the ideal would obviously then be zero runout.  They then modified the camshaft tensioner to deal with the less than ideal runout that they are putting out in these engines, but haven't taken into account that there are other parts involved that probably can't take the extra wobble.  I think the drill bit example explained this concept pretty well, and now I am seeing what the numbers represent.  I'm assuming that there is some sort of gauge that can measure the runout.  Is there some sort of adjustment that can be made to bring it to approaching zero and is this something that a dealer can work with?  It is difficult to find a competent shop when you don't have a real good understanding of how everything in the engine works, and thus don't know the right questions to ask in order to judge their competency.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #114 on: December 02, 2008, 06:42:36 PM »

So, is there a fix for the runout?  I'm now understanding that what they have done is actually increase the tolerance to allow for worse runout as acceptable, when the ideal would obviously then be zero runout.  They then modified the camshaft tensioner to deal with the less than ideal runout that they are putting out in these engines, but haven't taken into account that there are other parts involved that probably can't take the extra wobble.  I think the drill bit example explained this concept pretty well, and now I am seeing what the numbers represent.  I'm assuming that there is some sort of gauge that can measure the runout.  Is there some sort of adjustment that can be made to bring it to approaching zero and is this something that a dealer can work with?  It is difficult to find a competent shop when you don't have a real good understanding of how everything in the engine works, and thus don't know the right questions to ask in order to judge their competency.

You've got the concept. But fixing it isn't simple. The crank is inside the bottom of the engine cases. The engine must be removed and completely disassembled to repair/replace a crank. Usually taken care of by replacing it with proven parts like an S&S crank, or having the stocker removed and sent out for trueing & balancing then having it welded. Either way, you're looking at an entire engine rebuild to correct this issue.

Runout is measured at the end of the pinion shaft on the cam chest side, and on the engine drive side. The entire cam chest gets removed for the pinion side check, and the ENTIRE Primary side gets remove to check crank drive side runout. A dial indicator setup on some type of jig, allows you to measure the runout on these shafts. But that only tells ya what you have. It can not be corrected from these locations. You also have to pay them to check it for you. Only if it's out of spec will you then not have to pay for that. They owe ya a new engine then!

And no, the design has not changed as of current that I'm aware of. Cheapo roller bearing instead of Timken bearings, and cheapo pressed Chinese crank that can and has scissored and taken out engine parts and locked up entire engines, with nothing to lock it in w/o the Timken! Leave it at stock HP, you're prolly OK, if it's good to start with. But these cranks can't take some of the mods that get done around here though! ;)

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #115 on: December 02, 2008, 06:50:34 PM »

I ran my crank out once,  :carrot: and I'll tell you, not something you want to do with too much frequency.  :pepper: Find it serves one better to either ease it out, or space out the running. Good thing is that at my age, I still have the crank to run out. :pineapple:  :drink:
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #116 on: December 02, 2008, 08:06:18 PM »

thanks for the explaination. i understand now.
as far as you go larryB you know all that crankin comes out of a pill bottle !! :P
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #117 on: December 02, 2008, 08:41:46 PM »

Hoist, Thanks for the lesson. When you say "leave it stock and you probably be ok" does this include just removing the the cc,changing the exhaust adding a sert, do you think that will be ok?
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #118 on: December 02, 2008, 08:58:42 PM »

Hoist, Thanks for the lesson. When you say "leave it stock and you probably be ok" does this include just removing the the cc,changing the exhaust adding a sert, do you think that will be ok?

Stop it or you'll confuse Howie.....That is stock to him!  ;D

JW
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #119 on: December 02, 2008, 10:00:20 PM »

Stop it or you'll confuse Howie.....That is stock to him!  ;D

JW

Hoist, Thanks for the lesson. When you say "leave it stock and you probably be ok" does this include just removing the the cc,changing the exhaust adding a sert, do you think that will be ok?

HeHe!!! Yeap, that's stock to me. If these 110's are really fixed now, I'd do exhaust, intake, and a good tune, and ride the chit out of it. Either it'll hold up or won't. If you have to open the motor for any reason, I'd do the changes then. Why not see if it'll last or not first! If it seems OK, you can throw a set of cams in later. I wouldn't even check the runout right now, or take the motor apart in any way. Stage I and ride it. If these 110's are fixed, you should be OK. Time will tell! ;)

Hoist! 8)
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #120 on: December 02, 2008, 11:09:23 PM »

I can't see any reason to mess with it at all then.  I doubt that I will go further than the pipes, cc removed, intake, and SERT.  If something goes wrong, I've got a warranty for enough years that should take care of that problem, and hopefully something would go so I can have a new engine in 5 years.  Who am I kidding?  I can't seem to keep a bike a year and a half before trading on a new one anyway...but I'm hoping that I can control myself and keep this one longer.
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Re: Starting to get wonder if I’m making the right choice
« Reply #121 on: December 09, 2008, 01:57:43 PM »

So there have been no improvements to the 09s to addrsss these issues?   What a crock!

Flash
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