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[willyB]

You know the question will be asked.....

If its only the heads, water pump and radiator lowers when do you think the option will be available on non 2014 models?

[North Georgia Hawg]

You know the question will be asked.....

If its only the heads, water pump and radiator lowers when do you think the option will be available on non 2014 models?

Good question. Maybe it will be offered, and maybe not.

Since the '14 Touring bikes are finally CANBUS now, it might not even be technically possible. CANBUS changes the entire electrical control system. I would assume the ECM is in control of, or at least aware of, the water pump and water temp... but maybe it's a self-contained system that works independently of the ECM through a simple thermostat.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is logic in the CANBUS ECM to use head temp, and perhaps water temp, in the AFV calculations for the Twin-Cooled Models... but who knows?

I doubt the MoCo would go back to update J1850 ECMs to add Stanley Steamer support for older bikes... They don't have a very good track record for doing this sort of thing. They would MUCH rather you just buy a NEW Steamer!

Ken

[DCFIREMANN]

When the twin cam motor was designed it was already set up to be water cooled. It won't take much to twin cool your motor if you want to spend the money. I would not even consider it till all of the bugs are worked out. Second question would be are the new lowers able to mount to the earlier models? Oh and what would it cost to buy the system ( radiators, lowers, water pump and lines fittings ect? The after market may jump on this, but I wouldn't bet on it happening for a while. Sooooo if you are really hell bent on a twin cooled motor I would get in line for a new CVO Ultra.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[North Georgia Hawg]

When the twin cam motor was designed it was already set up to be water cooled. It won't take much to twin cool your motor if you want to spend the money. I would not even consider it till all of the bugs are worked out. Second question would be are the new lowers able to mount to the earlier models? Oh and what would it cost to buy the system ( radiators, lowers, water pump and lines fittings ect? The after market may jump on this, but I wouldn't bet on it happening for a while. Sooooo if you are really hell bent on a twin cooled motor I would get in line for a new CVO Ultra.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Or, for $12K less... a regular Limited! In AMBER WHISKEY and Vivid Black, of course... Very nice!

Ken

[hrdtail78]

The ECM controls the thermostat and fans.  Also adds in filling and burbing the system.  I'm sure there is an easy work around of this.  Heads will fit with no problem if correct gasket is used.  I don't understand the new gasket for water cooled only.

[BigLew55]

The ECM controls the thermostat and fans.  Also adds in filling and burbing the system.  I'm sure there is an easy work around of this.  Heads will fit with no problem if correct gasket is used.  I don't understand the new gasket for water cooled only.

The only thing that came to mind was thinner to bump the CR?

I don't see why it would be that difficult to pull a set of heads and the coolers in the lowers ass'y, along with the pump and hoses and put them on an earlier bike.  The pump would have to be wired and actuated differently, and the oil cooler would be displaced by the water pump, or other arrangements would have to be made.  Someone will do this, and I don't think it will be long.  Unless there's some other incompatibility that we aren't aware of.

[willyB]

Where is the oil cooler located now?

[sadunbar]

The ECM controls the thermostat and fans.  Also adds in filling and burbing the system.  I'm sure there is an easy work around of this.  Heads will fit with no problem if correct gasket is used.  I don't understand the new gasket for water cooled only.

The "Twin Cooled" head gasket has what the MOCO is calling a "metal pad" integrated into it...  I'll stand back and watch while some eager guinea pig beta testers find out how well it works!   

[hrdtail78]

I am also waiting for somebody to try the layered .030.

[sadunbar]

Where is the oil cooler located now?

In front and below the regulator...   

[willyB]

In front and below the regulator...   

Okay. Where's the water pump located?

[sadunbar]

Okay. Where's the water pump located?

A bit of confusion I think.  I don't believe there is an oil cooler on the bikes with water cooled heads.  On the bikes with water cooled heads, the water pump is positioned where the oil cooler is positioned on the bikes with air cooled heads - at least the bikes that get oil coolers!  Crystal clear now?   

[hrdtail78]

[hrdtail78]

[hrdtail78]

Harley says the front crash bar and lower are removed as an assy.  I don't consider this mod any good for bang for the buck type thing.  It would be cheaper to do a nice stage II w/ a good tune.  I would also want to test ride a 2014 before looking into this.  I have seen how HD says it works with radiant heat not blowing on you, but what about sitting in traffic?

[OBB]

Harley says the front crash bar and lower are removed as an assy.  I don't consider this mod any good for bang for the buck type thing.  It would be cheaper to do a nice stage II w/ a good tune.  I would also want to test ride a 2014 before looking into this.  I have seen how HD says it works with radiant heat not blowing on you, but what about sitting in traffic?

Looking at the new lowers, there's a vent on the outside edge of them that is supposed to channel the heat out away from your legs.

[grc]

Looking at the new lowers, there's a vent on the outside edge of them that is supposed to channel the heat out away from your legs.

How far out do you suppose that hot air will flow before it is blown back at you?  Sitting perfectly still perhaps the bulk of the hot air will be directed far enough outward to avoid roasting your legs, but once the bike is moving normal air flow will likely direct that hot air right back at your legs, or at least your passenger's legs.  I guess time will tell as people get some seat time with these bikes, but I can assure you after owning and riding water cooled bikes that the water cooling doesn't eliminate rider comfort issues.  Anyone who thinks this water cooling of the heads was intended to improve their comfort needs to dig a bit deeper into the real reasons for water cooling versus air cooling.

Jerry

[North Georgia Hawg]

How far out do you suppose that hot air will flow before it is blown back at you?  Sitting perfectly still perhaps the bulk of the hot air will be directed far enough outward to avoid roasting your legs, but once the bike is moving normal air flow will likely direct that hot air right back at your legs, or at least your passenger's legs.  I guess time will tell as people get some seat time with these bikes, but I can assure you after owning and riding water cooled bikes that the water cooling doesn't eliminate rider comfort issues.  Anyone who thinks this water cooling of the heads was intended to improve their comfort needs to dig a bit deeper into the real reasons for water cooling versus air cooling.

Jerry

To me, those reasons are to remove enough heat from the heads - specifically from the very hot exhaust valve area - in order to meet the increasingly-stringent EPA regs without having to detune the engine and run any more lean than it already does, without pinging like mad.

But all that heat has to go somewhere... and as you said, those vents will blow it out into the wind stream, which will in turn blow it right onto the rider's and passenger's legs!

Ken

[ridefar]

Is there any practical advantage to this for Joe average bike buyer that just wants to buy the bike and not have to screw with the motor in order to make it run to its potential?

[tazmun]

"But all that heat has to go somewhere... and as you said, those vents will blow it out into the wind stream, which will in turn blow it right onto the rider's and passenger's legs!"

Ken, have you taken a 14 out for a test ride in hot weather already? Me, I'd have to ride one first
before I would agree with that statement!

Taz

[Boatman]

Is there any practical advantage to this for Joe average bike buyer that just wants to buy the bike and not have to screw with the motor in order to make it run to its potential?

I'm not an engineer but I believe Harley did the water cooled heads to meet EPA requirements.  I don't believe they did the water cooling for our comfort or for the bike.

If you look at the first dyno run of a water cooled 2014 with water cooled heads, the 103 still makes no power stock from what I see.

Even if you could put water cooled heads on our older 110's, you are still sitting on top of an engine.  Raise the hood of your water cooled car engine when it is 90 degrees out and feel the heat come off.


 

[FLTRI]

I should be seeing one of these Water Buffalos in a week or so.
If history repeats I'm guessing a 10-15 HP/TQ improvement after stage 1 and good tune.
Bob

[hrdtail78]

Maybe GMR Steve will post his graph from a 2014 on this site.  Doesn't look any different from any other stock 103.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

here are cam specs on new engine.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

air flow.. at hwy speeds

[hogasm]

Had the opportunity to talk to one of HD's engineers at the AMA flat track race at Colonial Downs on Saturday. Extra compression was added to the motors and after much coaxing he said the twin cooling was needed to meet EPA regulations to keep the heat down on the exhaust valves and help keep the combustion temps cooler reducing detonation.  After I called it a wet head and a little laughing from the group that had gathered round, he opened up some on the new design. It is as assisted cooling to the main air cooling. The air is to be directed outward from the lowers so even in heavy traffic conditions when the fans are running the hot air effect on the rider will be noticed but not fully. HD, in his words took every effort to direct the air from the rider and keep with the traditional HD look that its consumers want.

[gvoxx]

Geez, you guys are funny. Your crunching numbers and talking "performance" while talking about a Harley Davidson? Limited? What?

I just bought a 2015 Peace Officer Limited, I have always been a Harley hater. The years of sticking to a naturally aspirated, air cooled engine? That to me has always been for lawn mowers. I have owned, Honda, Yamaha, KTM, Suzuki and now a Harley. I didn't buy it for performance. I still have my 2006 Suzuki M109R that will eat Harleys all day long, bone stock it cant be touched by any of the guys I short ride with. If I want performance or want to ride sport and short, that's what I will take.

My Limited is for 1 thing only, getting me, my girl and my gear 1000+ miles in comfort while still being on 2 wheels. If I want too, I can still even do that at over 100+ miles per hour. This is NOT a performance motorcycle, was never meant to be. Your conversation here is like someone on a Cadillac website scratching their heads at the their 1/4 mile numbers, and dumping tons of cash in their car trying to keep up with stock Corvettes. No logic at all. No one goes out to buy or build a performance mini van. Its more of a special use vehicle. Mine is a comfy, cushy cruiser with kick ass tunes, it knows how to get me where Im going, gets 42 MPG, keeps the lady happy and we even stay comfortable in rain, snow and cold. Its fantastic at a lot of things but if your looking for power to weight ratios that are great, you will be on a Suzuki. I love my 109 for getting out of my system what you guys are retro-ejaculating on this forum.
Love you guys anyway because in the end, Im a motorcycle enthusiast, not a die hard to any brand.

[SBB]

Geez, you guys are funny. Your crunching numbers and talking "performance" while talking about a Harley Davidson? Limited? What?

I just bought a 2015 Peace Officer Limited, I have always been a Harley hater. The years of sticking to a naturally aspirated, air cooled engine? That to me has always been for lawn mowers. I have owned, Honda, Yamaha, KTM, Suzuki and now a Harley. I didn't buy it for performance. I still have my 2006 Suzuki M109R that will eat Harley's all day long, bone stock it cant be touched by any of the guys I short ride with. If I want performance or want to ride sport and short, that's what I will take.

My Limited is for 1 thing only, getting me, my girl and my gear 1000+ miles in comfort while still being on 2 wheels. If I want too, I can still even do that at over 100+ miles per hour. This is NOT a performance motorcycle, was never meant to be. Your conversation here is like someone on a Cadillac website scratching their heads at the their 1/4 mile numbers, and dumping tons of cash in their car trying to keep up with stock Corvettes. No logic at all. No one goes out to buy or build a performance mini van. Its more of a special use vehicle. Mine is a comfy, cushy cruiser with kick ass tunes, it knows how to get me where Im going, gets 42 MPG, keeps the lady happy and we even stay comfortable in rain, snow and cold. Its fantastic at a lot of things but if your looking for power to weight ratios that are great, you will be on a Suzuki. I love my 109 for getting out of my system what you guys are retro-ejaculating on this forum.
Love you guys anyway because in the end, Im a motorcycle enthusiast, not a die hard to any brand.

Awwww newbies, If it appears we are funny, think how we feel when a newbie tells us how his jap bike is so hot. Yup we laughing also. To dissect your comments let me list a few.

1)

I still have my 2006 Suzuki M109R that will eat Harleys all day long, bone stock it cant be touched by any of the guys I short ride with.

Cooool, you say that like it's a revelation that a jap bike can outrun a Harley. Do you really think people here don't know that?
Of course they do. They also know of many other brands Triumph, KTM, EBR's, Ducati's and most other Jap bike manufacturers  build bikes that can eat a M109 for breakfast.
2) 

This is NOT a performance motorcycle, was never meant to be.

Refer back to item #1. Just because people here can afford to purchase the finest bike Harley produces it doesn't mean they are oblivious to the capabilities (or lack there of) of their CVO.

So with that said it's clear that you enjoy a little romp on the throttle. Don't we all. What I predict is that as you put more miles on that new 2015 Peace Officer Special you will be riding a lot with friends on other Harley's. Then you will have a bad day. One of your friends will dust that stock Peace Officer Special like you were sitting still. Then it will happen again and again. As soon as the friends realize the bike is stock they will treat you just like you do others when you are on that M109.  Boom, out run again, even without your wife on there, easy pickins.

So what do you do? You have three choices, stay stock and stay last. Go home and get the M109 and outrun those Harleys. (now that would be funny) Or finally, do a little work on the lawn mower motor. No one expects their Harley to be a racer but like you no one wants to be left behind with those they ride with. Or maybe when you ride that Harley you like being last not because you want to be but because you have to be. So before you laugh at others remember your time is coming. Good luck a stock 103 riding with a stock CVO 110 will amuse everyone.
We love newbies here, mostly because they know so much and are so entertaining.

 

SBB

[twinotter]

 Harley Davidson does NOT build their bikes for performance. They must be commended for using a 100 year old design and making it meet the stringent EMISSIONS of today!!
We've all seen how relatively easy it is to upgrade the stock performance of a Harley, even to the point of eating up Suzuki M109's (sorry, couldn't help myself)
Of course this hot rod Harley will in NO way meet any type of emission standard, and as such could never be made by HD. Harley is struggling to keep the ancient v-twin in your rides from becoming same as everybody elses.
 To most people it must seem rather ridiculous that HD doesn't offer a V twin with more power, but they must meet the silly government requirements.
If you want more, its there, the right cams, some headwork, a proper exhaust and now a professional tune, and bob's you uncle (or aunt now).  Its rather remarkable just how far this old Vtwin can go when done up right!!!!  jm2cw  fwiw Buffalo

[FLTRI]

Harley Davidson does NOT build their bikes for performance...  jm2cw  fwiw Buffalo

But they sure have a nice performance parts catalogue. I believe Harley provides more performance parts for their motorcycles than any other bike mfg?
Just saying,
Bob

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

I am also waiting for somebody to try the layered .030.

Been there with that.

[DCFIREMANN]

Awwww newbies, If it appears we are funny, think how we feel when a newbie tells us how his jap bike is so hot. Yup we laughing also. To dissect your comments let me list a few.

1)  Cooool, you say that like it's a revelation that a jap bike can outrun a Harley. Do you really think people here don't know that?
Of course they do. They also know of many other brands Triumph, KTM, EBR's, Ducati's and most other Jap bike manufacturers  build bikes that can eat a M109 for breakfast.
2)   Refer back to item #1. Just because people here can afford to purchase the finest bike Harley produces it doesn't mean they are oblivious to the capabilities (or lack there of) of their CVO.

So with that said it's clear that you enjoy a little romp on the throttle. Don't we all. What I predict is that as you put more miles on that new 2015 Peace Officer Special you will be riding a lot with friends on other Harley's. Then you will have a bad day. One of your friends will dust that stock Peace Officer Special like you were sitting still. Then it will happen again and again. As soon as the friends realize the bike is stock they will treat you just like you do others when you are on that M109.  Boom, out run again, even without your wife on there, easy pickins.

So what do you do? You have three choices, stay stock and stay last. Go home and get the M109 and outrun those Harleys. (now that would be funny) Or finally, do a little work on the lawn mower motor. No one expects their Harley to be a racer but like you no one wants to be left behind with those they ride with. Or maybe when you ride that Harley you like being last not because you want to be but because you have to be. So before you laugh at others remember your time is coming. Good luck a stock 103 riding with a stock CVO 110 will amuse everyone.
We love newbies here, mostly because they know so much and are so entertaining.

 

SBB

Been laying low or a while. Glad to see nothing has changed around here!!!

The Newbie will find out that he will have more fun on his Harley. He will also find out that it won't stay stock for long. Well anyway welcome to the site. Peace Officer Limited??? Nice bike I saw one yesterday sitting on the floor at the local Dealership. Hell if you could have passed the test you would have been able to buy a FIREFIGHTER EDITION LIMITED!!!! LMAO!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Fired00d]

Been laying low or a while. Glad to see nothing has changed around here!!!

The Newbie will find out that he will have more fun on his Harley. He will also find out that it won't stay stock for long. Well anyway welcome to the site. Peace Officer Limited??? Nice bike I saw one yesterday sitting on the floor at the local Dealership. Hell if you could have passed the test you would have been able to buy a FIREFIGHTER EDITION LIMITED!!!! LMAO!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Nothing has changed here and I see you haven't changed either.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[hrdtail78]

Been there with that.

I made that post Aug 21 2013.  Thanks for the informative post.

[DCFIREMANN]

Nothing has changed here and I see you haven't changed either.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Dood I'm a Firefighter. Would you expect anything less??

Be Safe

THE DAWG