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[Ironhorse]

Ironhorse, I'd be bummed too. Can you put it back to stock or semi-stock in the meantime easily enough? For what it's worth, I've known Zippers to stand behind their stuff. I think this AutoTune thing needs time to get everything right. After all it's still trials and errors. Someone else is doing it all and putting it on a disc. That's gotta take time. Maybe it shouldn't have been offered to you yet. All new stuff has bugs, but stand-up companies stand behind their stuff and I think Zippers will come through. Hang in there. Hoist!

Hoist,

Actually, the Auto-Tune is not really the base issue. I bought their highly touted Magnetti-Marelli conversion kit, to convert my bike over to Delphi. John Williams the sales guy did a whiz-bang job in selling it to me as the next best thing to buying a new bike. Said it would take care of ALL of my issues. So I bought it and installed it.

After a few install and tuning issues, they got me a close map and sent me to a local tuner. All the while my speedo was acting funny and the turn signals were not operating correctly. The tuner did the best he could, but the bike got poor mpgs. All Zippers could tell me is that it was all due to my heads, exhaust, and cam package. As for the speedo, I was told it was a rare issue with bikes like mine. I WISH TO HELL JOHN WILLIAMS HAD TOLD ME THIS UP FRONT BEFORE I SUNK ALL THIS MONEY INTO THEIR KIT!!! But his job is a salesman, and sell he did!

So I felt my options to get the bike to run good and get decent mpgs were to buy all the Zippers stuff, their heads, their cams, and their exhaust. As for the speedo turn signal issues, well their "working on it". Last week I spoke to Dan about my issues and mpgs. He said they had a working ECM for my bike that would resolve these problems, and be compatible with the closed loop. He said I would never get my bike to run right and get decent mpgs without the closed loop.

[DCFIREMANN]

Great news on the closed loop system being shipped?
Who do I call to check on my order?

DC Fireman,

Didja get a chance to speak to Dan yet? He has not reponded to my e-mails. I tried calling Dan again today but he was not taking calls, at least from me anyway. So I spoke to Randy. I told him what Dan told me on Monday Oct 30th, that there is a working ECM for my bike, and that it is closed loop compatible. Randy said he didn't know about that and would check with Dan and get back to me.

Mike I'm kind of getting frusrated here. I know they are working on my new ECM, but the frustration comes from the dark hole of information I get when I try to speak to them and get a straight answer. They may see me as impatient, and that may be partly true. But I AM A PAYING CUSTOMER. I bought and paid for their expensive system and it does not work properly. My speedo and turn signals do not function correctly, and I am getting 27mpgs. Whenever I try to address this with them, all I get is the "we're working on it" reply. This has been going on since September. How much longer should I put up with this? Is this the normal operating procedure for Zippers, to take money, and then leave a customer hanging with an improperly operating bike, and never contact him with an update?

What is a reasonable time frame for trying to get a straight answer from Zippers? I don't think I am out of line for trying to find out. I find it hard to believe, that I will never get a straight answer from Zippers for an indefinete amount of time, and that an improperly functioning bike and 27 mpgs is resonable and acceptable return for a $2,000.00 investment. You keep saying that they will stand behind the product and bend over backwards to help, but I just don't see it here with me. If anyone is getting bent over I think it's me. All I want from them is a straight answer.

Mike, answer me this question, how would you feel if you were in my boots?

The ThunderMax is produced by Thunder Heart Industries and is sold BY ZIPPERS ONLY. When a problem shows up there are a few people that straigthen it out. It is a computer glitch that needs to be found and then a solution needs to be found. This may be out of Dans hands and Thunder Heart is working on the problem. I have not had the time to go down there as of yet. I need to go down there to talk to Dan myself in person. It is not that he is not taking your call and Lisa doesn't screen his calls. If he is tied up on a project he stays focused on what he is doing. When I have been down there and working on THE CVO project I have seen him get 20 calls in a very short time. If he takes all of his calls when they are having a POW WOW on a certain problem it would never get solved.

ZIPPERS WILL NOT LEAVE YOU HANGING. I have told you that in the past. If they can't find a soloution then they will tell you. I know they have some other MM conversions out there with no problems. If you are getting nervous then return it, if you like it keep it and wait it out.

I really can't wait till I get the closed loop installed on my bike. It has been a pleasure to drive but the MPG's are much lower now. I guess after the breakin it is hard to stay out of the throttle.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Ironhorse]

The ThunderMax is produced by Thunder Heart Industries and is sold BY ZIPPERS ONLY. When a problem shows up there are a few people that straigthen it out. It is a computer glitch that needs to be found and then a solution needs to be found. This may be out of Dans hands and Thunder Heart is working on the problem. I have not had the time to go down there as of yet. I need to go down there to talk to Dan myself in person. It is not that he is not taking your call and Lisa doesn't screen his calls. If he is tied up on a project he stays focused on what he is doing. When I have been down there and working on THE CVO project I have seen him get 20 calls in a very short time. If he takes all of his calls when they are having a POW WOW on a certain problem it would never get solved.

ZIPPERS WILL NOT LEAVE YOU HANGING. I have told you that in the past. If they can't find a soloution then they will tell you. I know they have some other MM conversions out there with no problems. If you are getting nervous then return it, if you like it keep it and wait it out.

I really can't wait till I get the closed loop installed on my bike. It has been a pleasure to drive but the MPG's are much lower now. I guess after the breakin it is hard to stay out of the throttle.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Dawg,

Thanks for your response, I learned something new. That Zippers sometimes can't fix these issues and farms them back to ThunderHeart. That could explain why they can't answer my questions, because they don't know what is going on themselves. Could be they are as in the dark as I am. Perhaps I should consider contacting ThunderHeart directly about this.

When you get down there, would you be able to find out if my issues are being handled by Zippers or ThunderHeart? Dan said there is a working ECM for me. See if they have it or ThunderHeart does. See if you can get a time frame on it. Also see if Dan has a new MAP to help my mpgs get out of the mid 20s. The last one he sent me was in a different format, it corrupted the software and crashed the program. Randy helped me get that straightend out, and told me to delete and reload the software again. But I am still waiting on another MAP from Dan. Let me know if he says writing another MAP is useless because of my engine build. Let me know if he needs afr readings to write the MAP. If he does I'll have to buy the Daytona Twin-Tec WEGOII from them to get the afr reading. If he says that won't help, then my only options are to live with mpgs in the mid 20s, or buy their heads, cams, exhaust, and everything else.

[erniezap]

ZIPPERS WILL NOT LEAVE YOU HANGING. I have told you that in the past. If they can't find a soloution then they will tell you. I know they have some other MM conversions out there with no problems. If you are getting nervous then return it, if you like it keep it and wait it out.

I really can't wait till I get the closed loop installed on my bike. It has been a pleasure to drive but the MPG's are much lower now. I guess after the breakin it is hard to stay out of the throttle.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

I have never bought anything from Zippers and from what I've read they make some great products.  That being said, between this thread, Twolane's issues, and everyone else being told "soon" whenever there's a problem, [highlight]there is no F'ing way that I would deal with this company![/highlight]  If/when they ever decide to start acting like a company who cares about their customers, I might change my mind.  Until then, my $s will not be spent on their products or in their shop.

[Hoist!]

I don't know why, but it seems like a "East Coast-West Coast" thing. Most people I know on this ocean's side have pretty good luck with them. Good Luck Ironhorse! Too bad you weren't closer, it might've helped if you could bring your bike into them. Personally, I'll wait until all the bugs are worked out in the AutoTune before installing it. I'll leave it stock as long as I have to. It seems I'll be able to find out right here when that day comes. Just my $.02 not my $2K. Regards, Hoist!

[Fired00d]

..... Personally, I'll wait until all the bugs are worked out in the AutoTune before installing it. I'll leave it stock as long as I have to. It seems I'll be able to find out right here when that day comes. Just my $.02 not my $2K. Regards, Hoist!

Excellent decision. Since the 110ci along w/a lot of the features are new it's best (IMHO) to give all (MoCo & aftermarket) time to work out bugs and get things working/adjusted. Remember good things come to those who wait, and patience is a virtue.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Twolanerider]

I have never bought anything from Zippers and from what I've read they make some great products.

[Hoist!]

That's exactly why I'm asking so many questions about the different available ECM mod options. Nobody wants to be a Guniea Pig. You just don't know you're being one. Unfortunately, corporations today have grown accustomed to testing/proving their products in the field rather than taking the time to perfect them, before releasing them to the public. Gotta get it out the door! We'll Fix it under warranty, learn and fix the problems, and call it a newer generation product. This isn't just Zippers. It's become the new American corporate way. In all fields! That's why I fully agree with dOOd. Gotta wait til it's right! I feel for you guys with these problems. It's extremely frustrating. Hang in there. At least Zippers will be there to deal with. Other companies will just fold in the face of problems/warranty issues. Hoist

[Ironhorse]

wait until all the bugs are worked out in the AutoTune before installing it. I'll leave it stock as long as I have to.

I wish I could, I seem to be struggling on two fronts that are all related to the ECM. The Speedo/turn signals are all controlled by the ECM. The 27mpgs comes from an afr mixture that cannot seem to be properly adjusted due to my current build. All the MAPs Zippers has are for their heads, cam, etc... They gave me a "close MAP" to get it running. I tweaked the MAP, and had others help me tweak it. The bike runs and idles better than ever, but the mpgs are just horrible. Dan himself said that the best way to deal with the poor mpgs is through the closed loop system. And since all of this has dragged on beyond their 30 day return policy, I can't return the stuff anymore.

Sure I could strip all the Zippers stuff off, and reinstall the OEM stuff. But then I would be back where I started, with a bike that had a working speedo and turn signals, gets decent mpgs, but runs and idles like crap. I've tried to contact them and get a time frame on all of this, but they are so busy, so over worked, so overloaded, that they don't have time to respond to e-mails, return calls, or take calls. All I get is "we're working on it".

So I'm really at their mercy. It's won't run right, and it's too late to return it. It would be nice if I lived close and could visit them like Mike. I have thought about shipping my bike the them, but all that does is leave me without a bike for an indefinite length of time. I've considered flying out there and visiting them face to face. After all the time and money I have spent with Zippers, what's another few thousand? But then I think that maybe that money is better spent buying their engine package and hope it brings my mpgs up.

I just have to wait for however long it takes them to figure this one out and send me a working ECM.
I guess I better get use to a funky speedo, malfunctioning turn signals, and 27mpgs.

[Twolanerider]

And since all of this has dragged on beyond their 30 day return policy, I can't return the stuff anymore.

That can not be an acceptable response when nearly every day of all the time waiting has been spent waiting for answers from the supplier.  They were made aware of significant issues from almost day 1 (weren't they?).  They then asked you to "try this and do that" thus by their direction they were extending your efforts.  To do that and then, when all thier efforts and directions still prove to be failing, not step up is not the customer service and support we've been told to expect.

Have you in fact recently asked them, "Hey guys, at your direction I have tried X, X, Y, Z, and all these other things.  I have done these things, at my time and expense, at your direction rather than just sending it back within the 30 days.  The bike is still basically unrideable.  It's time to punt.  Can I have my money back?"

[Hoist!]

Ironhorse, I can't believe the 30 day policy will apply if you've never been satisfied and they're telling you to wait while they're working on it. Have you tried another ECM program in the meantime? I know you won't like this (devil's advocate here) but the right combination of parts, not just performance parts themselves, are the only way to insure that the bike runs right as well as performs. Another program with the same rusults would indicate improperly matched components. Dan had indicated that to you. He still might be right. I don't know your stuff and I'm not saying that's your situation, just some other things to look at. The electronic glitches have nothing to do with your components (signals, speedo) and they should be addressing/correcting that or returning your $$$. The poor MPG might be due to component selection/mismatch and all the maps in the world won't help that, if this is the case. I'm not trying to be the bad guy here, just make you aware of all the possibilities/realities. Hoist!

[DCFIREMANN]

Dawg,

Thanks for your response, I learned something new. [highlight]That Zippers sometimes can't fix these issues and farms them back to ThunderHeart.[/highlight] That could explain why they can't answer my questions, because they don't know what is going on themselves. Could be they are as in the dark as I am. Perhaps I should consider contacting ThunderHeart directly about this.

When you get down there, would you be able to find out if my issues are being handled by Zippers or ThunderHeart? Dan said there is a working ECM for me. See if they have it or ThunderHeart does. See if you can get a time frame on it. Also see if Dan has a new MAP to help my mpgs get out of the mid 20s. The last one he sent me was in a different format, it corrupted the software and crashed the program. Randy helped me get that straightend out, and told me to delete and reload the software again. But I am still waiting on another MAP from Dan. Let me know if he says writing another MAP is useless because of my engine build. Let me know if he needs afr readings to write the MAP. If he does I'll have to buy the Daytona Twin-Tec WEGOII from them to get the afr reading. If he says that won't help, then my only options are to live with mpgs in the mid 20s, or buy their heads, cams, exhaust, and everything else.

Mark it is not that they FARM them back to Thunder Heart. THUNDER HEART BUILDS THE UNITS! It would do you no good to call them. Zippers is the distributer for the unit and all questions will have to go through them. I will ask when I get down there. I can tell you unless they think they have ut right they are not going to send you anything.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Twolanerider]

The poor MPG might be due to component selection/mismatch and all the maps in the world won't help that, if this is the case. I'm not trying to be the bad guy here, just make you aware of all the possibilities/realities. Hoist!

That "match/mismatch" is a relative thing though.

[DCFIREMANN]

I have never bought anything from Zippers and from what I've read they make some great products.

[DCFIREMANN]

I don't know why, but it seems like a "East Coast-West Coast" thing. Most people I know on this ocean's side have pretty good luck with them. Good Luck Ironhorse! Too bad you weren't closer, it might've helped if you could bring your bike into them. Personally, I'll wait until all the bugs are worked out in the AutoTune before installing it. I'll leave it stock as long as I have to. It seems I'll be able to find out right here when that day comes. Just my $.02 not my $2K. Regards, Hoist!

Hoist for the most part the bugs are worked out. I can't wait till I can get it installed on Punkin.

Be Safe

THE DAWG