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[Hoist!]

Dawg, I think he's lucky that at least he has someone local like yourself, whom Zippers knows, to help him. Zippers goal is not to make or keep us unhappy. With over 2500 CVO members here, most of which seem to own multiple performance oriented bikes, I would doubt that Zippers will be comfortable with this problem being left unresolved. They also have a lot riding on this (us!). Hell they wouldn't waste their time being a member and participating here if they didn't think that we were not important to their business. People like us ARE their business. Therefore either of 2 things will happen. they'll eventually make him happy or they won't. Unfortunately it will take some time to see which occurs. My money's on the former. I hope it works out for you guys. I know the outcome will effect decisions I make in the future, as I'm sure it will with others as well. Hoist

[DCFIREMANN]

 [smiley=rifle.gif] SERIOUSLY DC! That's like suicide man! Dealin' with us, that is

[DCFIREMANN]

[highlight]Hell after all of this I think I am going to apply for the new position that just opened up at Zippers. CUSTOMER SERVICE AGENT!!!!!!!![/highlight]

Dawg,

Keep your regular job -- it is much safer than a Customer Service Agent for Zippers.

[Ironhorse]

Hoist I think you hit the nail right on the head. Two problems here. Problem one Ironhorse has a early MM conversion that is giving him a problem. This is a problem not even related to the closed loop system or the later model FI systems that most of us have. They have been working with him on this. He is not happy but they are working on it.

Problem 2 they took money for a system and didn't ship it right away. Along with the other problems Don had with his upgrades from other vendors. He has had a rough time. He is a patient person. I feel for him.

I called to talk to Danny today. He is out. I will send him an e mail and try to get some answers on Ironhorses problem. I don't know that I can help but will at least try.

Hell after all of this I think I am going to apply for the new position that just opened up at Zippers. CUSTOMER SERVICE AGENT!!!!!!!!


Be Safe

THE DAWG

Dawg,

No need to, I finally got an answer back from JK. It was the first indepth comprehensive response I ever got. It told me where things were in development and how much more they have to do. He gave me a time frame of 6 weeks, 16 weeks, 16 months, or whenever it gets done.

He offered to buy the system back. I told him I am learning to deal with the malfunctioning speedo and turn signals. I added that 27mpgs in not acceptable. I said that if we could just get my mpgs up to a reasonable range, I would endure all the other issues, keep the system on the bike, and continue to wait for whenever. I told him that on November 1st Dan sent me a new MAP to try and improve my fuel economy. But the MAP Dan sent me was incompatible with the ThunderMax software and corrupted the program. I asked JK if the MAP could be sent again, this time in the correct format for me to try.

The difficult part is, for the FIRST TIME EVER, the bike starts good, runs great, and idles steady. However the mpgs are horrible. If we can get the mpgs to improve, I'll keep the system on the bike. If they cannot improve the mpgs, I'm returning it. I'm not asking them to speed rush R&D and make me an ECM, all I'm asking for are new MAPS to improve my mpgs. I hope that is not an unreasonable request.

Let's see what happens.

[JCZ]

Dawg,

No need to, I finally got an answer back from JK. It was the first indepth comprehensive response I ever got. It told me where things were in development and how much more they have to do. He gave me a time frame of 6 weeks, 16 weeks, 16 months, or whenever it gets done.

He offered to buy the system back.

Let's see what happens.

After all the time, effort, energy and miles you've put down all over Southern Calif. trying to make it right........they should just give you your money back.

[Hoist!]

Ironhorse, Bear in mind, if they're getting you a new closed loop ECM to replace what you have now, the new maps for this ECM might not help your existing conditions. You're choosing to work with them until the new unit is developed for you. That sounds pretty good to me. If you decide to wait this out, try not to get too frustrated in the process. They've told you it'll take some time, but they're not blowing you off. They offered a refund as well. Sounds to me like they're standing behind their product and offering you choices. Hang in there! Hoist!

[Ironhorse]

Ironhorse, Bear in mind, if they're getting you a new closed loop ECM to replace what you have now, the new maps for this ECM might not help your existing conditions. You're choosing to work with them until the new unit is developed for you. That sounds pretty good to me. If you decide to wait this out, try not to get too frustrated in the process. They've told you it'll take some time, but they're not blowing you off. They offered a refund as well. Sounds to me like they're standing behind their product and offering you choices. Hang in there! Hoist!

Hoist,

Your're right, eventually, but I can't say when, I should get a new ECM that solves the speedo/turn signal issues and is closed loop compatible. That one will come with it's own MAP. For now, all I am trying to do is get a MAP from Zippers to work with my current Zippers ECM that will get me better than 27mpgs.

JCZ, you are right, they should. Right now I really don't want to reflect on all the additional expenses I have shelled out for just to take me this far in the process. All I want for now is better mpgs. I'll "live" with the rest of it. Let's see if they can come up with a better MAP. In the mean time keep checking the corner gas stations, 'cause that's where you'll find me,...... filling up. LOL!

[DCFIREMANN]

Well I am glad to some progress today at least.

Back on topic. Since JK said they were shipping has anyone got one as of yet??? Who is going to be the frist to have theirs installed?

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Rhino]

Well I am glad to some progress today at least.
 
Back on topic. Since JK said they were shipping has anyone got one as of yet??? Who is going to be the frist to have theirs installed?
 
Be Safe
 
THE DAWG


Hey Guys, even if everyone with a 110 received the closed loop and module, there still needs to be a base map, or you can try to work with one that doesnt exactly match the bike and componenets from the Zippers Library.  Me personally, I want to wait until the true matching map is ready before I tweak around with it.  If you start without at least a base line guide for your component mix, it can go either way, off course, too rich, too lean etc, and not have info enough to compensate.

I think Ironhorse may be experiencing some of this, for example, if his bike mods do not EXACTLY match one that Zippers created a base map for, from a twin brother bike, then some of the tuning issues he has may require a tuner/programmer to get it right. I think that would take a call to Thunderheart or Zippers, whoever has the responsibility for actually making the base software map and giving them the bike specifications, pipes, cams etc... Once a base map was created, tweaking it out is the fun part.  Just my 02 ....again.

So I think that some performance mods that I may do will be based on what ZIppers mix has already created.  

Rhino

[Twolanerider]

Speaking to Dawg's question on delivery and Rhino's accurate portrayal of the question on base maps I know I'm likely halfway home but still only assuming I am ok on the other.  There was UPS delivery notice here when I got back this evening. A box from Zippers is in town.  Assuming nothing unexpected in the package that should answer the delivery question.

The base map question, however, is still somewhat in the asked but unanswered category that characterizes much of what we've been discussing here lately.  More than a month ago I sent Kitzmiller a message that discussed base maps, described the exhaust I'd be hanging on the parts they were sending me and asking if the base map would be satisfactory to start with.  It was a question I never got an answer to.

So while I am willing to assume that the control range of the system can handle the variances attributable to something as minimal as different exhaust systems, and I am willing to assume they wouldn't send a system out without an adequate base map to start from within it; I can't say what's really there or absolutely know what to expect because they never told me.

I will, of course, know before it gets hung on the bike.  But this instance as has been others was one where a question's answer went missing.

[DCFIREMANN]

Ok to anwser the last 2 post. Don I am 99.99% sure that the Map for your package was done some time ago. I saw the bike with the 103 muscle kit on the dyno. It was not mine as mine did all of the early testing and my motor was being gone through. So I am sure you are more than OK in regards to the map.

I am not sure about the 110 maps. All I need to do is make a call to find out the status on the 110 motor.

Rhino getting back to Ironhorse. He has a different application then anyone else on this board. He has a conversion for MM to Delphi. There are some maps for those packages but when you start changing things that there is no map for it is tough to dial it in with out a dyno and sniffer. They are working on a closed loop system for that application but there is no time frame for completion. When it is done then the auto tune (with a close map) will take care of tuning issues.

As far as Thunderheart Industries goes. They manufacture the unit. Zippers designed the unit. So placing a call to Thunderheart will do you no good. Hell I don't even think there is a completed map for Punkin's build as of yet.
 

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Twolanerider]

Ok to anwser the last 2 post. Don I am 99.99% sure that the Map for your package was done some time ago. I saw the bike with the 103 muscle kit on the dyno. It was not mine as mine did all of the early testing and my motor was being gone through. So I am sure you are more than OK in regards to the map.

THE DAWG

Thanks Mike.  Good to know you've seen a project in house there that should supply the product in question.  I always figured if nothing else I'd plug the unit in, hook up a laptop and see what kind of tell tales came from the unit itself.  One way or another an answer needed  rounded up.  Glad you saw the work being done for the map needed here.

[Rhino]

Yup. Ditto what he said!!

Rhino

[Texas 103]

Well I am glad to some progress today at least.

Back on topic. Since JK said they were shipping has anyone got one as of yet??? Who is going to be the frist to have theirs installed?

Be Safe

THE DAWG

I should get mine Friday , If they in fact shipped Tuesday 11/7/..It will be on Friday night>>>>>>Greg

[jdk20723]

Please see our Vendor site for some Q&A about ThunderMax AutoTune.  

Greg, your unit did ship Tuesday, thanks for your trust in us,  JK