Topic: Gear drive cams (Read 6260 times)

Screamin · « **on:** November 06, 2006, 05:09:20 PM »

I'm pushing 20,000 and it's probably about time to get into the cams. I know lots of us have installed them. How are they holding up? Thanks a lot.

[smiley=cherry.gif]

hd-dude · « **Reply #1 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:13:18 PM »

Much much better than the tensioners at 20k [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]!

Screamin · « **Reply #2 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:14:38 PM »

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Much much better than the tensioners at 20k [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]!

[smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

hd-dude · « **Reply #3 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:21:51 PM »

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[smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

I am sure you were looking for a more technical answer than that but I could not resist...I have installed dozens of gear sets and I have only had 1 issue. On a hot 95" build the customer beat the sh*t out of the bike and ended up twisting the crank (no Timken bearing) which broke several teeth off of the gears. Tried to blame it on the cams until I showed him the runout on the crank shaft. If he had the chain drive he would not have noticed the problem as soon.

Fired00d · « **Reply #4 on:** November 06, 2006, 06:35:53 PM »

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I'm pushing 20,000 and it's probably about time to get into the cams. I know lots of us have installed them. How are they holding up? Thanks a lot.

[smiley=cherry.gif]

Don't have that many miles on mines yet, but for the piece of mind they are priceless. I would say go for it. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]

erniezap · « **Reply #5 on:** November 06, 2006, 07:05:19 PM »

Don't even think twice about going to gear drive, just do it before the engine eats the tensioners. The only decision is which cam...

VANAMAL · « **Reply #6 on:** November 06, 2006, 07:33:02 PM »

I HAD HD -DUDE install the freedom 14 gear drive cams on saturday. big difference on performance. any of you west coast guys be sure to use the dude. hes very qualified and fast. no messin around when hes on the clock. 4 hrs for cams and gears-1.5 hrs for chrome inner and starter. my tensioner shoes did not show much wear only pitting after 16500 miles-ak and ernie showed up to bs and they have also gone with the freedom cams. none of that zipper stuff
[smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=banana.gif]

SBB · « **Reply #7 on:** November 06, 2006, 07:38:46 PM »

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I HAD HD -DUDE install the freedom 14 gear drive cams on saturday. big difference on performance. any of you west coast guys be sure to use the dude. hes very qualified and fast. no messin around when hes on the clock. 4 hrs for cams and gears-1.5 hrs for chrome inner and starter. my tensioner shoes did not show much wear only pitting after 16500 miles-ak and ernie showed up to bs and they have also gone with the freedom cams. [highlight]none of that zipper stuff [/highlight]
[smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=banana.gif]

Is that like?

None of that Zipper stuff you have to pay for upfront then wait painfully to get?
Yeah!
That's it!

[smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

erniezap · « **Reply #8 on:** November 07, 2006, 01:49:10 PM »

I don't have any issue with Zippers or their products. Just persanl preference that I went with the Freedoms. That and the fact that I can ride to Freedoms if I have any issues.

Fired00d · « **Reply #9 on:** November 07, 2006, 01:55:17 PM »

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..... Just persanl preference that I went with the Freedoms. That and the fact that I can ride to Freedoms if I have any issues.

Ernie,
You hit the nail on the head there. I think the reason most of us went with one or the other was for personal preference reasons, location/proximity to supplier, and name recognition. Before joining this board I had heard a lot on Zippers Performance and their products and nothing concerning Freedoms. I attribute that mainly because I'm from the east coast and a couple of hours away from Zippers. Either way I think they are both good products and you couldn't go wrong installing one or the other.

[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]

hd-dude · « **Reply #10 on:** November 07, 2006, 02:11:37 PM »

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Ernie,
You hit the nail on the head there. I think the reason most of us went with one or the other was for personal preference reasons, location/proximity to supplier, and name recognition. Before joining this board I had heard a lot on Zippers Performance and their products and nothing concerning Freedoms. I attribute that mainly because I'm from the east coast and a couple of hours away from Zippers. Either way I think they are both good products and you couldn't go wrong installing one or the other.

[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]

You've got it right too Dood, I have installed 4 different versions of Freedom 103 cams and aslo the Zippers 575's if different 103's. The Butt dyno says they all work well. And we all know how scientific that is!

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #11 on:** November 07, 2006, 03:02:25 PM »

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I don't have any issue with Zippers or their products.

Grumpy-jim · « **Reply #12 on:** November 21, 2006, 08:14:10 PM »

I have stock 01 SE Roadglide, which gear driven cam would you guy's recommend?

hd-dude · « **Reply #13 on:** November 21, 2006, 09:14:50 PM »

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I have stock 01 SE Roadglide, which gear driven cam would you guy's recommend?

There are many choices for the 95" motor. Are you planning on any other work? Heads? Intake? exhaust. It really depends on your goals for the motor. If your just looking for a bolt in cam and no other mods the S&S 510G is a great cam for the touring bike withthe 95"er.

nidan · « **Reply #14 on:** November 24, 2006, 08:42:09 AM »

Mine are fine with > 8K on them

Street Stalker · « **Reply #15 on:** November 24, 2006, 05:39:33 PM »

If you go to gear drive be prepared for more engine noise. My gear drive Zippers 575's are quiet when cold but get a little noisy when hot. If your pipes are fairly loud you won't notice much...

BLM777 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 24, 2006, 05:47:45 PM »

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If you go to gear drive be prepared for more engine noise.

Street Stalker · « **Reply #17 on:** December 04, 2006, 04:46:27 PM »

No, does that keep the noise down? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

I did add the Baisley spring though

BLM777 · « **Reply #18 on:** December 04, 2006, 05:13:07 PM »

I think you'll find the whole motor somewhat quieter at high temps with the increased scavage and flow of the Feuling...

CVOMOE!! · « **Reply #19 on:** December 04, 2006, 06:53:41 PM »

I'm thinking of going to gear drive cams next Spring. I notice some of you have the Freedom FCC9 and others have the 14. What is the best set up for my '05 Banana with Freedom pipes etc. Bike has a Power Commander. I don't really want to split the cases to install a Timken bearing. [smiley=banana.gif]

Thanks, Chris

hd-dude · « **Reply #20 on:** December 04, 2006, 10:16:57 PM »

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I'm thinking of going to gear drive cams next Spring.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #21 on:** December 04, 2006, 11:36:47 PM »

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I'm thinking of going to gear drive cams next Spring.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #22 on:** December 04, 2006, 11:41:08 PM »

Hmm, for whatever reason that link pulled a Humpty Dumpty and I was like all the Kings horses and men. So try this instead:

http://www.gpdesigns.net/whatsnew/twin_cam_outer_bearing_support.html

Hoist! · « **Reply #23 on:** December 04, 2006, 11:42:47 PM »

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Chris, if you're concerned about the bottom end at all or just want to ease your own mind on the matter there is a device that (apparently) offers real improvement over stock and does so without having to open the bottom end.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #24 on:** December 04, 2006, 11:44:19 PM »

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Don, this link comes up "Product Not Found" I was curious what it was. Hoist!

It's a different kind of bearing support Hoist. Take a look at the very next post right after the one with the screwed up link.

Hoist! · « **Reply #25 on:** December 04, 2006, 11:53:17 PM »

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[highlight]It's a different kind of bearing support [/highlight]Hoist.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #26 on:** December 05, 2006, 12:02:22 AM »

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Got it Don. Wow, what a great idea. And that thing looks bulletproof too. What about interference with the Primary Chain tensioner or the Hayden Auto Chain Tensioner, any issue you see? Hoist!

Can't speak to bulletproof. But one can certainly hope!

I used this because I was upping the motor a bit, but not a ton. I specifically was not doing enough to make me think I HAD to do the Timken conversion. But I could do this piece and know I was adding a significant degree of insurance; and not have to split the cases to do it.

As to the tensioners; the early iterations of this part did not account for the Harley branded chain tensioner. It wasn't a big deal as you could account for it by relieving a small amount of material from the unit in an area that harmed nothing by doing so. The current version of the part is machined such that it accounts for the tensioner without having to do anything.

Whey I asked them about it they didn't/wouldn't claim experience with the Hayden or other third party tensioners. But the unit does specifically fit around the Harley branded unit now.

When ordering mine I was assuming that it was another of those pieces we do whose price is significantly accounted for by what it does or that we'll pay for it every bit as much as what it is. When you get this in hand, however, it is an impressive part. Anyone who has ever spent any time with machine tools will be immediately impressed. It is a beautifully made set of components that goes together like music. Really really sweet.

Hoist! · « **Reply #27 on:** December 05, 2006, 12:21:48 AM »

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Can't speak to bulletproof.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #28 on:** December 05, 2006, 12:39:05 AM »

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That's what I thought when I saw it and called it "bulletproof". Between that and the Feuling, you got a lot tied up in bearing support plates! Ithink it's money well spent though. For what you did to that motor, a little insurance can go a long way toward peace of mind. Especially if you're still concerned about those heat marks. I think that was from the forging process, not your engine. I would definitely consider this if I was doing a hot-rod top end job. BTW, I didn't check, are they only for TCs or do they have them for EVO's as well? Hoist!

Hoist, if memory serves they didn't offer an EVO product. And as much as I'm pleased to have added the Feuling plate when I was working mine I would have been satisfied with the OE part were it not for a smoking deal on eBay. Someone had a Feuling plate listed awhile back while I was still in "wait" mode for all the parts to get in. But the seller spelled Feuling considerably wrong and apparently no one but me found the listing. Seller had started it at $110.00 (I think that's what it was, darn close anyhow) and it never went up from there.

I agree that I think what we saw on my rods was never a problem within the engine. Enough so that while I was willing to jaw about it I never seriously considered doing anymore than that. And if I was really concerned there was something going on I'd not have not taken care of while I was already that far in. But hopefully the believed lack of problem there, along with the extras like the Feuling oiling parts and the bearing support will make this a motor that can hum away for a long time to come.

Hoist! · « **Reply #29 on:** December 05, 2006, 12:51:10 AM »

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Hoist, if memory serves they didn't offer an EVO product.

CVOMOE!! · « **Reply #30 on:** December 05, 2006, 12:54:21 AM »

Thanks for the info Don and HD-DUDE. Makes a lot of sense and it is something I will be looking at in the Spring for sure. I did the cams on my 95" Ultra a couple of years ago and the tensioner shoes were (inside one) was totally shot and almost down to the spring at 20,000 miles. Makes me a little nervous now.

Cheers, Moe [smiley=banana.gif]

Twolanerider · « **Reply #31 on:** December 05, 2006, 01:08:48 AM »

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After following your stuff, Iwould have never expected anything less. And you now have these 2 extra strong parts to help insure that. That motor's gonna run sweet. Can't wait to see what kind of numbers it runs after break-in and dyno tuning. Are you going to dyno tune even though you have the AutoTune? Hoist!

Sometime in the spring I'll get it spun on a dyno just to satisfy my own curiousity. Will be interested to see what it reports. Won't have any further tuning done though. Quite frankly even were I so inclined it's not really an option. No one I know within any kind of riding distance who is equipped or trained to tune the Thundermax.

The huge benefit to the T-Max and it's attendant autotune components are that we can swap parts (within reason) and not have to extend the price of those changes with a dyno tune everytime. Another is that the system apparently should get you awfully darned good on its own. The one downside though is that it is relatively proprietary.

Reading the system won't be a big deal. Tuning it is just about a Zippers-only task (with but a few exceptions). So if one were so inclinded to just wring every possible .10th out of it doing this isn't really an option. However...... given the variability that comes from even a relatively competent tuner using a SERT or PC I'm inclined to think that a bike specific system that is constantly monitoring and "learning" the bike it's on is likely to be as or more effective as the efforts of most tuners we accept.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #32 on:** December 05, 2006, 01:10:43 AM »

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Thanks for the info Don and HD-DUDE.

Hoist! · « **Reply #33 on:** December 05, 2006, 01:40:39 AM »

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Sometime in the spring I'll get it spun on a dyno just to satisfy my own curiousity.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #34 on:** December 05, 2006, 03:15:21 AM »

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Speaking of which.....I heard of a new system today called Terminal Velocity, I believe. It's an add-on to the stock ECM (not a replacement). By adding this, you convert your stock system to a constant sampling closed loop system, similar to the TMax .

I've looked at the specs on that before. It's an Alpha N type unit from a company called Terry Components. They even had a version that worked on the old M&M bikes. But personally I'd not be interested in using it. The installation method is enough to keep me from doing so.

At least when I last looked at them it only sniffed one cylinder rather than two; but that wasn't the biggest drawback for me. To install it you had to open up the ECM plug and you also had to solder in to several of the wires to the ECM. It's a cut and splice install done at the ECM.

Granted, I'm pretty handy with the tools and dexterity to do that kind of chore. But I still don't want to. And just the thought of it is going to freak a lot of people out. The device needs to advance a generation with the mftrs developing an interconnect harness (or something). They also need (if they haven't done so already) to sniff both cylinders since the OE and aftermarket standards both now do just that.

Hoist! · « **Reply #35 on:** December 05, 2006, 11:29:29 AM »

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I've looked at the specs on that before.

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #36 on:** December 05, 2006, 11:43:58 AM »

HOIST the one thing about the Thunder Max auto tune is it has WIDE BAND O2 sensors not narrow band like most of the other systems on the market. What that means is it is constantly tuning the ECM. The narrow band units only tune when the sensor reaches a certain temp. Meaning it will open and cloe the loop at various times. I would much preder this over the SERT. Not to mention the adjustment points the T max has over the Sert. The Tmax has over 1900 adjustment points as oposed the less than 200 for the Sert. That will give you better driveability and better tuning.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Hoist! · « **Reply #37 on:** December 05, 2006, 11:55:03 AM »

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HOIST the one thing about the Thunder Max auto tune is it has WIDE BAND O2 sensors not narrow band like most of the other systems on the market. What that means is it is constantly tuning the ECM. The narrow band units only tune when the sensor reaches a certain temp. Meaning it will open and cloe the loop at various times. I would much preder this over the SERT. Not to mention the adjustment points the T max has over the Sert. The Tmax has over 1900 adjustment points as oposed the less than 200 for the Sert. That will give you better driveability and better tuning.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

I agree with you Mike. After warranty, I'll do what I want to the bike. Until then, I just want it to run properly. My thinking is that the SERT will offer the best and easiest way to deal with MoCo, while having the bike run decently in the meantime. The wide band closed loop with continuous monitoring, tuning and adjustment seems like the only real way to properly control the bike. You need to convince me that it will make it easier to maintain my warranty with the TMax vs. the SERT. I'm hoping you can. Waiting two years for it is not so bad as an alternative though. Thanks Mike.

syclone · « **Reply #38 on:** December 05, 2006, 07:05:33 PM »

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HOIST the one thing about the Thunder Max auto tune is it has WIDE BAND O2 sensors not narrow band like most of the other systems on the market. What that means is it is constantly tuning the ECM. The narrow band units only tune when the sensor reaches a certain temp. Meaning it will open and cloe the loop at various times. I would much preder this over the SERT. Not to mention the adjustment points the T max has over the Sert. The Tmax has over 1900 adjustment points as oposed the less than 200 for the Sert. That will give you better driveability and better tuning.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

narrow band o2 sensors start to and continue to work once they reach a temp of 200 degrees "C". but they are "narrow " band because they can only tell the ECM if the fuel ratio is above or below 14.7:1. they are an "on" - "off" sensor. The fuel ratio is never static when they are being used to make adjustments....rather , it's always rich-lean-rich-lean, just above and below the 14.7:1 target...its a continous average so to speak. Each time the ratio goes just above or below the 14.7;1 target...is called a "cross count" The ECM is programmed to monitor the sensors for fuel control only during idle and periods of steady state cruise conditions...other times it just ignores them and delivers fuel based on the internal map..but they are always delivering the "yes"-"no" signal. The motor is then in closed loop only when the ECM wants and uses their input...since it "knows" that under a load or an acceleration event the sensor will be fixed on the rich side above 14.7:1....but cant tell by how much.
5 or 7 wire heated wide band o2 sensors know the amount of oxygen left in the exhaust stream at all times, under all conditions so an engine controller can use their input from idle to wide open throttle and every place in between.
The T-max is a good system...for sure... but it has to have 1,900 points of adjustment,because it is not load based (ignores the MAP Sensor) and has to constantly compute engine load ,off of the T.P.S. and RPM rate of change.
If it were to use the MAP signal....it would have 200 some odd cells like the SERT.
Then we are talking a closed loop controller that would be much more expensive....different technology.

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #39 on:** December 05, 2006, 07:13:12 PM »

Thanks syclone. When I said they are off and on I should have been a little clearer. You were very clear on the operation of the sensors though. Thanks

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Hoist! · « **Reply #40 on:** December 05, 2006, 08:42:20 PM »

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narrow band o2 sensors start to and continue to work once they reach a temp of 200 degrees "C".

syclone · « **Reply #41 on:** December 05, 2006, 08:42:54 PM »

Unfortunately it comes naturally...been dealing with engine control systems...BROKEN ONES mostly......ever since 1982. Mostly GM (Delphi) some Ford and the cager drag race stuff like F.A.S.T.
(Fuel-Air-Spark-Technologies) their wide band race controllers with 2-3-4 bar map sensors(lots of boost !!) data recording, nitrous control etc....run over $2000.00
And ..the current Delphi system used on the '06-'07 bikes , is pretty crude actually, when compared with what's running around today on 4 wheels.

DCFIREMANN · « **Reply #42 on:** December 06, 2006, 12:31:11 PM »

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Unfortunately it comes naturally...been dealing with engine control systems...BROKEN ONES mostly......ever since 1982. Mostly GM (Delphi) some Ford and the cager drag race stuff like F.A.S.T.
(Fuel-Air-Spark-Technologies)

Boatman · « **Reply #43 on:** December 06, 2006, 02:29:11 PM »

The MOCO won't spend any more money than it has to.. It might take a few years, but eventually the bikes will run right from the factory. (We can always hope).

Hoist! · « **Reply #44 on:** December 06, 2006, 03:50:33 PM »

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The MOCO won't spend any more money than it has to..

Unbalanced · « **Reply #45 on:** December 06, 2006, 04:49:11 PM »

Hoist,

I think your going to be really surprised what additional bikes from Harley will be released sooner than you think with water cooled systems.

look towards an 08 bike in addition to the VRods.

Hoist! · « **Reply #46 on:** December 06, 2006, 05:18:51 PM »

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Hoist,

I think your going to be really surprised what additional bikes from Harley will be released sooner than you think with water cooled systems.

look towards an 08 bike in addition to the VRods.

I hope you're right Harry. I saw the intrduction of the Revo as the first step towards eventually going completely WC. The Feds have been letting them get away things for a long time now. I sure hope they will always offer a 45deg Air-Cooled, V-Twin with common crank pin (can you spell potato, potato). There's nothing like it! Hoist!

syclone · « **Reply #47 on:** December 06, 2006, 06:55:44 PM »

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I hope you're right Harry. I saw the intrduction of the Revo as the first step towards eventually going completely WC. The Feds have been letting them get away things for a long time now. I sure hope they will always offer a 45deg Air-Cooled, V-Twin with common crank pin (can you spell potato, potato). There's nothing like it! Hoist!

Lets hope so..!!! I would bet there are some twin-cams with water cooled ...possibly even 4 valve heads running somewhere right now. If they can keep the heads cool, they can raise the compression, keep the big bore for cubic inches ,and lots of the Harley low end "grunt".
The 4 valves only makes sense..more flow at all lifts..more Hp up top.
Draw a perfect circle...then draw two of the largest,equal, perfect circles that will fit inside the first circle. see how much area is left over. Now draw the same circle, but this time draw 4 of the largest equal sized circles that will fit in the circle....and see how much less area is left over...4 valve heads will flow more air given the same sized chamber. And with a rocker arm re- design, they can do it without overhead cams....a 45 degree V-twin , 4 valve Twin Cam with water cooled heads...that will go "potato,potato" and make power top to bottom....I bet one's a runnin somewhere in back room marked "Do not enter" just sayin..................

Unbalanced · « **Reply #48 on:** December 06, 2006, 08:35:10 PM »

Biggest problem I foresee is the making of torque not horsepower. Once you get past the dyna, softail the bikes get pretty heavy. Its going to be interesting to see.

Hoist! · « **Reply #49 on:** December 06, 2006, 08:56:06 PM »

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Lets hope so..!!!

syclone · « **Reply #50 on:** December 06, 2006, 10:12:13 PM »

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syclone, I don't think its about the top-end. It's all about the bottom-end. I don't think there are single-crankpin/flywheel water-cooled engines (asking not stating). These engines use crankshafts instead. The single-crankpin 45deg design, is what makes the sound, and allows the stroke required to make the torque that you can't get out of high revving engines, as Harry states below. That's why I'm concerned about this type of engine being around much longer. This design is not very efficient and eventually, they're gonna hit the wall with EPA and kaboom, it's over. [highlight]However, I think Harry knows something he's not telling us![/highlight] [smiley=confused5.gif]
Hoist!

Its not efficient in present EPA form...not because of the common crankpin..but because the compression has to be kept down (8.9-9.2:1) because of the combustion chamber temps ,and the resulting NO and NOX emissions that result...HC's may have to be controlled with a catalyst, but lean mixtures and high temps send the NOX through the roof.
A combustion chamber and piston dont care what they're pushing down on.
Now drop the head temps 100 degrees... 1) you can raise the compression ..and the corresponding cam specs....and the specific output goes to 1.25 hp/cubic inch lets say..and the Hp cant go up without a torque rise...so you have a 96" motor now making 120 hp , or a 110 making close to 140. 2) The timing curves now allowed along with the lower chamber temps means NO and NOX emissions can be controlled....and it will still go "potato=potato"
Hell..two valve ZO6 Corvettes ,,running at over 11.0:1 compression..are on the street right now. A water cooled aluminum head is the only way it can be done..an iron head wouldnt cut it.
the Mother Company's biggest challenge through all this will always be....the SOUND. It's what makes a Harley a Harley,,,it's the soul of the bike...it whats lusted after by so many...it's what enables you to know it's a Harley from a block away....."IT" is what sells the bike to 95% of the customers( who will never visit a site like this)....... its the common crankpin. I wish them the best of luck.

Hoist! · « **Reply #51 on:** December 07, 2006, 06:59:59 AM »

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Its not efficient in present EPA form...not because of the common crankpin..but because the compression has to be kept down (8.9-9.2:1) because of the combustion chamber temps ,and the resulting NO and NOX emissions that result...HC's may have to be controlled with a catalyst,

SBB · « **Reply #52 on:** December 07, 2006, 07:13:42 AM »

At this rate I'm thinking Hoist will catch up with Twolane by Christmas.

hogasm · « **Reply #53 on:** December 07, 2006, 09:00:02 AM »

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At this rate I'm thinking Hoist will catch up with Twolane by Christmas. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

Chip, I believe he might even pass Twolane. He did jump on with both feet [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
Might need to have a poll on this.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #54 on:** December 07, 2006, 11:40:53 AM »

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At this rate I'm thinking Hoist will catch up with Twolane by Christmas.

Hoist! · « **Reply #55 on:** December 07, 2006, 12:13:57 PM »

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At this rate I'm thinking Hoist will catch up with Twolane by Christmas.

Hoist! · « **Reply #56 on:** December 07, 2006, 12:18:34 PM »

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[highlight]I vote for Hoist for President in 2008!![/highlight]

I have huge plans to bring this country forward should I be elected. Didn't you know that I've started my campaign here in the form of an HD enthusiast?

Fired00d · « **Reply #57 on:** December 07, 2006, 03:39:40 PM »

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I have huge plans to bring this country forward should I be elected. Didn't you know that I've started my campaign here in the form of an HD enthusiast?

djkak · « **Reply #58 on:** December 07, 2006, 03:51:37 PM »

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...a 45 degree V-twin , 4 valve Twin Cam with water cooled heads...that will go "potato,potato" and make power top to bottom....I bet one's a runnin somewhere in back room marked "Do not enter"

Hoist! · « **Reply #59 on:** December 07, 2006, 04:02:35 PM »

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You forgot the other platform...... "Owners can do anything they want to their bike within the two year warranty and be covered under the warranty". [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]

[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]

Are you kidding d00d, It's been moved right to the top of my campaign!

Hoist! · « **Reply #60 on:** December 07, 2006, 04:04:12 PM »

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I

Author Topic: Gear drive cams (Read 6260 times)

hogasm