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[TorqueInc]

It's interesting to me that the GM at my Dealer mentioned yesterday about properly installing the HT studs w/ red Loctite, and setting the depth as they have no "shoulders".

What caused the case repairs that you are referring to?

Is there any certain amount of times that head studs can be re-torqued (like a '1' -use bolt)

On your recommendation, I will get some replacement studs.

  I cannot tell you what the actual cause is,over torque/bad case material/???

   What I can tell you is that the studs generally just rip right out ,I have welded them up and fixed them but generally I use either a timesert or Bigsert and have never had one fail.

   The one indy that I do heads for uses the Colony studs in his rebuilds and says he likes the way they torque up better than the HD ones

[Yellow09SERG]

Oasis built an open check book plus 113 / DD7 for my good friend's Skunk last year, and it is a rocket (almost 40k miles already), but since he has a black motor, he has a S&S 124 on the shelf (no kidding).

Was that motor built with the factory cyl's or was it built off the Revolution platform.
The 117 would actually be my choice of builds and probably have more fear of the base gasket on the o-ring 110 case than I do the Nikasil cyl's.

[CVO2FIXUP]

   If you are going with a nice ( zero run out ) crank, why dont you go with the gear driven cams? Get rid of those chains and tensioners and the wear and tear of that hole little contraption in there.  

   And just out of curiosity (I know it's a rude question, and you can tell me to jump in the lake if you want ) what is this costing you? I did pretty much the same build and it ran me around $6000.00  That is what it costs to get rid of that valve train noise LOL.  

After a lot of help from the CVO Forum and some of the Indies here, we decided to go this route for a "Sport Touring" '09 SERG with dependability / longevity as the primary focus;
(If S&S made a 124 in Granite, I'd already have one!)

HD Cases, Line Honed, Timken, Hefty Lefty

HD High Tensile Cylinder Studs

S&S Crank w/ non-tapered rods

Wiseco / SE 4.060 Forged Flat-top Pistons

HD Cylinders bored +.060 to Pistons

HD new style Oil Pump

HD cam plate w/ Zippers Dual Piston Hydraulic Tensioners, Axtell Oil Bypass Valve

S&S Premium Lifters

T-Man 625 Cams

SE Adjustable Pushrods

T-Man CVO Street Performer Heads, 10.4-1 c/r (going to use the head gaskets that T.R. tells us to use)

SE Forged Rocker Arm Supports

S&S Roller Rockers

SE 58mm Throttle Body (Port Matched) 5.3 Injectors

V&H PowerDuals, Roland Sands Design Tracker Slip-ons

Power Commander V / Autotune

Will go to the latest style compensator or sprocket when this (new)one wears out

SE High Performance Clutch Spring (looking for suggestions if the spring doesn't hold it ?)

Baker DD7 (Oasis Cycles has unbeatable pricing on Baker Products )

Cases / Cylinders on the way to Oasis Cycle in Brandon, MS for Machining / Bearings

Heads / Throttle Body on the way to T-Man Performance


What am I forgetting?

Any suggestions / comments are appreciated

[johnsachs]

Factory studs are certainly NOT a weak link. More harm is done by removing, and then re-installing new ones. You're dealing with a CAST aluminum case, and threads. But as usual "tinkeritis" will win every time.  
John

[TorqueInc]

And I would take that advise

[FlaHeatWave]

  If you are going with a nice ( zero run out ) crank, why dont you go with the gear driven cams? Get rid of those chains and tensioners and the wear and tear of that hole little contraption in there.  

   And just out of curiosity (I know it's a rude question, and you can tell me to jump in the lake if you want ) what is this costing you? I did pretty much the same build and it ran me around $6000.00  That is what it costs to get rid of that valve train noise LOL.

'Was really considering the gear drives, even asked about them here. http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=91310.0
Since we are working the cases and going with the S&S Crank, I believe the gear drives are a viable option.
(here's where the 'but' comes in lol) After speaking with Builders on both sides of The Mississippi, the consensus seems to be that the gear drives are ok, BUT if you have any kind of failure, it is prone to be catastrophic, whereas the chains might be a little more forgiving in that respect...

The available selection of cams was a factor also.

The Red Shift Dual Piston Tensioners definitely seem to be a better mouse trap.
A good friend of mine had 25k mi. on them when he put the Hurricane Heads on his 113 / DD7 Skunk, and was impressed with the way that everything looked.

All that being said, I hope that I never kick myself in the ass for not going S&S 585 Gear Drive EZ starts  

(you Canuks are too polite anyway  lol)
When you figure all the allowances on existing parts, discounts, "free" labor, and cashing in the remainder of the ESP, I will be in right at $2k, including the DD7! 

'Might have to drop some more $$ if the SE Heavy Duty Clutch Spring doesn't hold    

[Yellow09SERG]

Not to wish that you spend more money, but hope that the torque comes in so hard that the SE clutch doesn't hold.....

[dlaws01]

It's interesting to me that the GM at my Dealer mentioned yesterday about properly installing the HT studs w/ red Loctite, and setting the depth as they have no "shoulders".

What caused the case repairs that you are referring to?

Is there any certain amount of times that head studs can be re-torqued (like a '1' -use bolt)

On your recommendation, I will get some replacement studs.

That's a very interesting point to bring up.  I don't know about this particular application but I have seen instances where studs required a length measurement prior to torquing and after torquing to determine if they were still considered serviceable for reuse.  Once "stretched" past a predetermined amount, they would require replacement.  Once again, this is probably not the case on this engine but an interesting point anyway. 

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Of all the engines we have done even in boosted applications ( 15 PSI) never have had a stock stud fail. Now I have had issue with the non shouldered studs and I feel that they can create more issues than they will ever correct. This is a not a SBC engine you are dealing with soft cast case's.  If a stock stud can handle 15 PSI of boost I feel that the stock unit will handle just about anything the avg guy can throw at it.

[HD Street Performance]

Steve
What is your take on the Zippers tensioners?

[FlaHeatWave]

Not to wish that you spend more money, but hope that the torque comes in so hard that the SE clutch doesn't hold.....

That would make me cry...

[johnsachs]

Re: Studs,
It might surprise many that S&S uses STOCK studs in many of their engines.
Likewise, I've never had a stud failure in boosted engines pulling as much as 28 lbs. of boost (Detonated a piston), when the rear wheel spun on the drum.  
John

[FlaHeatWave]

Re: Studs,
It might surprise many that S&S uses STOCK studs in many of their engines.
Likewise, I've never had a stud failure in boosted engines pulling as much as 28 lbs. of boost (Detonated a piston), when the rear wheel spun on the drum.  
John

My primary concern is the rear head gasket..

[johnsachs]

My primary concern is the rear head gasket..

Why ? What is that based on ?
Oil the head bolts, & underneath the head of the bolts, use Cometic torque values, and everything is flat, you should have no issues.
John

[FlaHeatWave]

Why ? What is that based on ?
Oil the head bolts, & underneath the head of the bolts, use Cometic torque values, and everything is flat, you should have no issues.
John

John,
'Just thought that, if I was to blow a head gasket, it would be the rear one...

Question; Does the person doing the headwork and setting the compression ratio select the head gasket, or do I select it and tell them???

'Going w/ Cometic, what thickness do you think would be suitable for this build?
10.4 w/ worked CVO heads

'Just out of curiosity; In the boosted applications, do y'all o-ring the heads or anything, or just go with the standard setup?

Thanks,
Ed