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[Yellow09SERG]

Going to have to run back across the river again and take a look at some pistons...

Ed were your 110 jugs bored already?

David

[INDEPENDENT_1]

I just started using the coatings in the last few months and nothing Ive used them on has come back to the shop yet. I have a 98" build in the works right now that has the pistons, combustion chambers, valve faces and exhaust port coated. The owner is a local that I see regularly and he does a lot of parade and competition riding so it will be interesting to get his feedback on whether he notices a real difference with the coatings and I'll bore scope it after its been ran a year or so and see how they're holding up. The place I send them to says the coatings have proven to make considerable more power and allow more advance on the timing curve but I have not done any testing that would prove one way or the other yet. The cost for the thermal barrier coating for a pair of pistons runs about $50.00. The cylinder heads done as described runs about $100.00 for the pair. See attachment to check out the coated heads.

Dave, c'mon back! The pistons I posted above will be getting installed hopefully by this time next week as well as another set of CP's I just had the crowns coated on that are going on a 98". If you'd like a set of those you know where to find me... or you can always go for the 124" in granite I was telling you about and enjoy that and the warranty that comes with that. I just finished installing a new set of S&S 585G's and a Feuling pump/plate on the 98" yesterday and Im waiting on a new clutch for it that should be here Monday morning. After these two builds are buttoned up I'll be pulling 2 more down and sending those SE 103+ heads and the factory SE 95" heads I showed you down to Sachs. He'll be doing the heads for my T124 also. In the meantime I have a set of heads on the way back from Bean for another motor I tore down since you were here. Im pretty well slammed but you're welcome to swing by and check these pistons out. You'll like em and I've got more on the way!

[INDEPENDENT_1]

Exhaust port

[Yellow09SERG]

James, if work treats me well next week maybe I can run by one afternoon.

Ed is the T man 625 the direction on the cam still?

[Snakebyte]

Intresting.
I would say it works better than polishing the combustion chamber. Seems like a good idea for these air cooled motors.
Who do we send to and what's turn around time.

[INDEPENDENT_1]

These were done by Polymer Dynamics. Them being in Texas works well for me since Im located in Oklahoma. With race season just around the corner, they are very busy but as a dealer for them and because I have sent them quite a bit of stuff recently, they are getting things done pretty quick for me. Usually within a weeks time. There are other companies that offer these services also but I dont have any experience with them. Another coating they offer besides the thermal barriers and the dry film coatings is the oil shedding coating. An example of where you'd have that done is to the underside of pistons, your cam chest area and possibly the flywheels and con rods?? I think they also coat intake ports with it to aid in fuel suspension. Swain Tech, Nitro Plate and other companies offer these type coatings as well. 

[FlaHeatWave]

Going to have to run back across the river again and take a look at some pistons...

Ed were your 110 jugs bored already?

David

David,
'Would think that the (new)110 Jugs were bored to the supplied pistons, for a piston / wall clearance of .002, which I believe was validated by the manufacturer? (the nicasils are .001)  The ring end gap of the 2nd ring (on 4 sets) was >spec (we all know it's easier to subtract than add, when it comes to rings lol)
From what I gather, the jugs / pistons are good to go, just that the Manufacturer was ok with the 2nd ring size , and Oasis ("Building a Piano") was not

If you and your brother could come up with a set of (2nd) rings that you would be happy with, I think these (jugs / pistons) are good to go...

We spec'd out the 625s originally with TR, and he knows about the additional cubes, c/r still at 10.4, the heads were supposed to ship yesterday, so I guess we are going to give 'em a go... 'Just hope that he put enough in the heads to accommodate the losses (that TR told me) I will incur with the DD7

The 625s pull towards 6k, when we get the 117 sorted, it should carry well from 2800 to the limiter, in any gear 

 

[Snakebyte]

Here's a set of CP's at 4.075" bore. This piston is made with a 6cc dome that was whittled down to a flat top and then thermal barrier coatings were applied to the crowns and dry film to the skirts. Just got them finished up a couple days ago but thought you guys might like to check them out.

I know CP puts a lot of effort into building there pistons taking into consideration heat and expansion..
What do you think the protective coating does to the expansion rate? It would seem to me that the top of the piston wil not alow it to expand like it should and expose the top ring more. Possibly allowing the piston to rock more in the bore.
Are you going to go with a tighter bore clearance for the pistons?

[Yellow09SERG]

Ed do you happen to know what the ring sizes were for the pistons? I have no idea if they would be compatible or not but maybe a call to Total Seal or one of the other auto ring manufactures would supply a ring set.  4.060 would be a .060 Chevy 350??? Wonder if they would interchange? 

[HD Street Performance]

Cp ring packs are
Top .048
Second .048
Oil Ring .119

[INDEPENDENT_1]

I know CP puts a lot of effort into building there pistons taking into consideration heat and expansion..
What do you think the protective coating does to the expansion rate? It would seem to me that the top of the piston wil not alow it to expand like it should and expose the top ring more. Possibly allowing the piston to rock more in the bore.
Are you going to go with a tighter bore clearance for the pistons?

I've thought about that also and to be honest, I don't know the exact answer but I believe CP will do the coatings if you ask them to and pay for it. I also talked to Randy at Hyperformance and he didn't think it was a bad idea. That's not exactly a detailed and specific answer to suggest a yes it's ok or a no, don't do it but it's all I have for now. If you turned up more info about it I would be interested in your findings. That being said, I set these up on the tight side of the spectrum anyhow. With the SE pistons at least, I have found that setting up in the middle or loose side they will run good and not burn oil but they can be a little noisy. I know this isn't a "I know everything" response but it's an honest response.

[TorqueInc]

I know CP puts a lot of effort into building there pistons taking into consideration heat and expansion..
What do you think the protective coating does to the expansion rate? It would seem to me that the top of the piston wil not alow it to expand like it should and expose the top ring more. Possibly allowing the piston to rock more in the bore.
Are you going to go with a tighter bore clearance for the pistons?

  Warm the engine up before dropping the hammer=no problems

[FlaHeatWave]

Ed do you happen to know what the ring sizes were for the pistons? I have no idea if they would be compatible or not but maybe a call to Total Seal or one of the other auto ring manufactures would supply a ring set.  4.060 would be a .060 Chevy 350??? Wonder if they would interchange?

David,
I don't have a clue? The rings were one of the last things that I thought would be an issue on this Build. 'Figured that the shop that I selected for the machine work (Oasis) would be best to spec and source the piston kits? Oasis has done tons of these and they assure me that they have never seen this issue before.
Just like your other question about if the nicasils required 'special' rings (both great questions btw! 'got my curiosity up too, I'm sure we will know the answers before we get to the end of this road lol)

You might find this comical~I do... One of the biggest reasons that I decided on 113 vs 110, was that while the original pistons and bores (at 9+k miles) looked brand new except for a little carbon on the piston tops, my Tech had to do an aggressive honing (w/torque plates) to get the 10.5 (std) pistons from the SE Stage III Kit to fit, and on this go-around, since we don't have any competent machine shops around here, I figured that I would have to send the cylinders out for boring anyway, to insure a proper fit, and 113 looked to be a proven combination...  Since we are going to the 4.125 nicasils, I haven't thought much more about it?

If the sizing is the same, and the ring material is the same (air vs water cooling?) 'don't see why they wouldn't interchange 'Never even though to ask if Wiseco makes their own rings or if they source them? Seems like it would be easy enough to get 4.060 + .005 rings and file them to fit? 'Just glad at this point, that I'm not doing this Build to put food on the table...

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

I know CP puts a lot of effort into building there pistons taking into consideration heat and expansion..
What do you think the protective coating does to the expansion rate? It would seem to me that the top of the piston wil not alow it to expand like it should and expose the top ring more. Possibly allowing the piston to rock more in the bore.
Are you going to go with a tighter bore clearance for the pistons?

I believe that your reading more into it, than is there.....
Scott

[HD Street Performance]

What do you think the protective coating does to the expansion rate?

Nothing
The coating gives insurance that's it. A few oopsies and the coating is gone then the next one and the piston scuffs.
What Torque said, warm it up first.