Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[amigo Jorge]

Why the 110 kit is only availbale for '07 Fatboy & Deuce? The whole Softail & Dyna series comes with the same 96 Twin engine and why the kit only fits two models...... [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

Screamin' Eagle

[grc]

There is a kit for touring models: http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_product.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524448769832&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302319503&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302319503&bmUID=1163873732053&bmLocale=en_US
And for Dyna's: http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_product.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524448769832&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374309040816&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374309040816&bmUID=1163873962925&bmLocale=en_US

Jerry

[SPIDERMAN]

I am no where near as knowledgeable on twin cam performance issues as are about a dozen members on this site, so when I read a thread like this I look at it from the standpoint of basic information shared. I know this is statin the obvious to the two folks who have posted on this thread so far, but to anyone else reading this who MIGHT not be aware, the 110 kit involves pullin your motor from the frame, disassembling the motor, boring the cases for the larger cylinders (hoping they get all the machined aluminum debris out of all the oil passages) Assembling the motor and reinstalling the motor, reinstalling the primary, starter and exhaust FYI, H-D flat rate labor has just removing the primary at 4 hrs. Major labor involved in this upgrade. I would guess somewhere around $2,500 at most shops. Add to that the cost of a PC or SERT and dyno time and you're looking close to $6,000 in the face to do this upgrade. A Stage II 1690 kit involves no engine removal hence no primary,starter disassembly and reassembly AND the kit without mufflers can be had for $899 list. Add in a set of nice heads and you're still below the cost of the 110 kit. OR if you read the different threads on performance issue, buy individual parts and put together your own HiPo 103 for 1/2 the cost of a 110.

Again, this is for someone who MIGHT not know. The 2007 model H-D's are 96" motors with the same stroke (4-3/8") as the 03-06 103's and the 07 110's so you don't need to do flywheels etc to get to 103. If you have an 06 or older twin cam 88, you need flywheel etc etc . be cheaper to buy a crate 103 and drop in in your frame than build up an 88. IMO

B B

 

[Unbalanced]

Big B,

3 different ways to look at this not just 2.

First the 110 ... 24 hour labor on the build up x 60 - 80 dollars depending on your shop.  300 to 400 in milling costs and the cost of the kits, but why would you right now?

Right NOW the problem is why in the hell would you do it to put a cam in with no overlap the 255.   Until more cams become available sit back on you butt enjoy the 96 and wait.

Now you say this is about a 6000 cost.   Well why touch the motor at all then.   For a little bit more go to the Jim's 120 and be happy   500 bucks or so to do the engine swap and your good to go and have many choices stock or down the road.

Now lets look at the 1690 hop up.  Problem again is NO CAM for your engine.

Thus the end result right now is be patient grass hopper all will be clear in time.

Sorry not wanting to squash the idea I love the idea, were just not to a feasable point to really delve very far into a reasonable resolve.

-harry

[DCFIREMANN]

Big B,

3 different ways to look at this not just 2.

First the 110 ... 24 hour labor on the build up x 60 - 80 dollars depending on your shop.

[Unbalanced]

Dawg,

There arent many of the new style cams available yet.

[SPIDERMAN]

Harry,
          I was talking about other folks not me Dude. I am reading and listening and asking questions before I do anything. My efforts on my Road Glide have been concentrated on Seat, Handlebars, Windshield and rear facing lighting ( so I don't get my ass rear ended) At the moment, my only desire on the motor is a decent set of Screamin Eagle mufflers, a Stage I breather and a SERT to get rid of the insanely rediculous lean condition of the stock download in my ECM. Like I told my parts guy, " why would I buy a one use only chip for $129 " The SERT will be there if I decided to do anything else down the road. We'll see what shakes out for the 07 models on exhaust, cams and the whole enchilada. Thanks for lookin out for me buddy  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

B B

[crshnbrn]

Why the 110 kit is only availbale for '07 Fatboy & Deuce? The whole Softail & Dyna series comes with the same 96 Twin engine and why the kit only fits two models...... [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

Screamin' Eagle

[r440]

I know bob woods has cams on the shelf and also doug from headquarters has some, both for the 07 model year so things are gettin better

[Unbalanced]

R440,

I will call Bobby at Woods the last time I was on the site it wasn't updated as it is now.   I want to find out what the minor mods are to the cam that have to be done.   He has almost all of his cam's converted for the new system which you are right is great.  Andrews has nothing posted yet.   I havent run any of the cams from HeadQuarters, so I can't speak to them, but Woods is definately ahead of the curve and makes good torque cams for these heavy monsters only draw back to his stuff has been a lot of it is tough on the valve train.  Go fast has a cost its just a matter of knowing what they are before you do it.

I am curious what he is suggesting for the 103 / 110 for 07.  It used to be the 400w / 6hg I will have to take some time and compare / convert the naming convention with his old cams and see if it is one for one.

Thanks for the update,

-harry  

[SPIDERMAN]

harry,
         Please explain what you guys mean when you talk about setting your SERT at 12, or 13 or whatever. What's a good setting for my 96" with Stage 1 breather and SE Slip-ons.  I don't know squat about tuning. I realize this is probably on the wrong thread

Thanks
          B B

[Unbalanced]

Brian,

Ok here goes.

The SERT what I do when I want to dyno tune a bike and get the bike setup right you must tune the bike by Volumetric Efficiencies ...  so what I do is set the bike all fuel tables to 13 to 1.

Then I to get the A/F line flat at 13 to 1 I play with the Volumetrics and use those to get the line flat for each cylinder.   Once you have each cylinder flat you can then change your A/F tables and the A/F line on the dyno graph should be very close representation that you have the motor tuned correctly.   Yes there are some tweaks with timing and fuel pump, but that is the basics of how to get there with a dyno.   If you would like give me a call and I can walk you through the process in a little more depth if your so inclined.

Generally the higher the rpm the richer or more fuel I want to add even if it is gradual but that is not how you get the bike tuned to start with you need to do it as a constant to begin with otherwise you will never get it just right.

Does that help you understand it a bit better ?

-harry

[SPIDERMAN]

Yes that does help a lot Harry, thanks !  So what is considered too lean ? 14, 15-1  ?

B B

[Unbalanced]

Brian,

Depends on the riding your doing.

If you were saying wide open throttle then yes 15 to 1 is too lean.  If your talking about low rpm's around town while not prefered 15 to 1 is typical of something you would see from Harley.   Generally if your looking for gas mileage as generality you would look at 14 to 1.   If your looking at torque and power your looking 12.5 to 1 to about 13.4 to 1 depending on what your after.   Generally 13 to 1 is used as a standard and its listed on almost all dyno's as the target A/F, but again this is subjective to say the least.   13 to 1 generally gives you most of the power you will want and at the same time gives you some gas mileage and your not worrying about blowing the motor up because you ran it to lean at any rpm.   Once I get a bike tuned for Volumetric Efficiency  and timing I adjust the A/F  lean out the lower rpms / lower percentage of throttle and richen up as I go across the throttle percentages with the race tuner.  That way when I am at the higher end RPM's I have fuel there.   Too Little Fuel at the top end = bad things can happen.

[r440]

I am curious what he is suggesting for the 103 / 110 for 07.  It used to be the 400w / 6hg I will have to take some time and compare / convert the naming convention with his old cams and see if it is one for one.
 
when I spoke with him about a 107 build for my 07 e-glide he suggested the tw7,which is a kinda cross between the tw5 and 6hg might be a good choice,but I am now thinking an HQ build he seems to have his stuff together