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[Dan_Lockwood]

I thought that the "beehive" type spring being wound with oval wire versus round wire and the tapered upper end, was supposed to cut down on the harmonics that dual and triple springs exhibit???

Also with the lighter weight of just the one spring and the smaller keeper at the top, the valve float was supposed to also be reduced...

Assuming that the spring rate correct, and I'm sure they come in different rates, isn't the beehive a good thing to be using?

Just thought I would pose some positive aspects of the beehive and why it was designed originally.

Any thoughts?

[HD Street Performance]

Dan I agree. The beehives are a good product when used and speced properly. They don't work in all applications however.

[Ridgerunr]

Dan I agree. The beehives are a good product when used and speced properly. They don't work in all applications however.

Let me ask this: if the behives in 103'ers are ok for .570 lift, anyone know why the use of the high seat pressure springs in the 110"?

[Steve Cole]

Let me ask this: if the behives in 103'ers are ok for .570 lift, anyone know why the use of the high seat pressure springs in the 110"?

Just because people run them at higher lifts doesn't make it right. Also the 110 has larger valves that weigh more. Who knows the real answer, lots of opinions and lots of people say this is better than that. Funny thing is the opinions are on both sides of the fence! Both types of springs when used properly work great.

[flyin-r]

I can't help but believe that the high seat pressure of the stock springs in my 110 contributed to the worn out lifter bores I have in 69,000 miles. The excessive wear is on the thrust sides. ESP warranty will cover the cost of replacing the cases, but I'm on the hook for everything else.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

all things equal you can run less seat pressure with a beehive. As there is a reduction in mass .  Does that mean the beehive is the best not really.

[Ridgerunr]

all things equal you can run less seat pressure with a beehive. As there is a reduction in mass .  Does that mean the beehive is the best not really.

Best for what? The failures these guys are seeing are not with .640" lift cams, and stock 110" motors are not on the ragged edge. I don't think anyone is saying beehives are the best, but easier on the whole valve train than the heavy springs that come in them.
 .550" lift (255) work fine with springs that are in the 103" heads. Know of several 103"/255 cam'd, 1 with 50,000+ miles and another with 70,000+ miles, no lifter failures or other problems.   

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

I am not dis agreeing . I feel the stock 110 head has more spring pressure that is needed. You cannot however compare a stock HD head to the CVO head either.  A beehive is not going to be any easier or harder on anything.. Example look at the SE CNC head with a beehive spring, it just one more example of too much pressure.  Lift also have nothing to do with it,  A S&S 640 is super easy on the valve train, then look at say a short duration 590 lift stick that is good for nothing more than chewing up parts.. Just got to repair one of those set ups .. I know the crew on the right coast has it all figured out. Yep seat pressure at 200 and it was a rattling bucket of bolts. Tossed all the "super stuff" ran a basic 570 lift cam basic spring pack and it made more hp had the same tq curve and had zero valve train noise. ( we did have to replace rockers as they where ate up) but I just read where a shop stated that spring pressure was a internet myth.. Dunno just keep doing what we do 

[Steve Cole]

I can't help but believe that the high seat pressure of the stock springs in my 110 contributed to the worn out lifter bores I have in 69,000 miles. The excessive wear is on the thrust sides. ESP warranty will cover the cost of replacing the cases, but I'm on the hook for everything else.

Is this with a stock camshaft? Thrust side wear is NOT typically caused by valve spring pressure. That is typically the sign of an aggressive opening ramp on a camshaft. Most think of a lifter moving up and down but a camshaft has no way to do that. So it starts by pushing sideways on the lifter and the side load reduces as it climbs up the ramp of the camshaft. This side loading is very well known by any engine builder that has been around the block a time or two. With a camshaft we can gain better performance by getting aggressive on the ramps but there is a price to pay for doing it! Typically you gain noise and lifter wear at the same time. So use some aggressive ramp speeds and your going to hurt the lifter bore but if power is what your after it will win. With camshaft design you have to balance how much wear and noise your willing to life with as that will limit just what you can do.

[Ridgerunr]

Steve I agree that pressure is pressure wether double wound or beehive. Reason I talk about beehive is HD is already putting them in the smaller cu in motor so I just question (to myself mainly) why not the 110? After all HD has usually been about saving $$, iventory control, etc. etc. Any way in my old HTCC CNC heads I got rid of the OE 195# after a lifter failed and installed S&S 175# springs, with several .625" cams no valve float @ 6200 rpms, quiet and no lifter failures. 

[flyin-r]

Steve,
Yes, I'm running the stock 110 (#255 cam). Do I have any reasonable hope of getting more miles out of the new cases? I still plan to go with the beehive springs.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

flyin ,....install a set of 600 avv beehive springs. They will work fine with a direct bolt in for that set up. 

[flyin-r]

flyin ,....install a set of 600 avv beehive springs. They will work fine with a direct bolt in for that set up.

Thanks GMR. Will do.

[HD Street Performance]

Well I use the Beehives on the 110 heads. I do use the stock springs too on the low dollar jobs too with an explanation.
My spring dejour is the AV-6500s however which enables higher RPM control and room for upward growth with the proper valve protrusion.
Have had a set of heads back here that were hammered, rider hits 80-90 all day long and this one had 30K, pressure was within 5 lbs of new.
Never had a set break.

[PanHeadRed]

#175 lbs are not considered heavy springs.

.56" lift in 211 deg of crank rotation can be considered aggressive for a cam.