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[OBB]

Everyone like to think they made the best decision, and it seems to have worked out OK for you but, you are 3 for 3 with bikes that had catastrophic breakdowns?  You have to admit this does not accurately reflect what the average guy is to expect, or possibly ever even hear of.

The average CVO owner must have made some good financial decisions in order to get one, not trying to single you out personally, just ESP plans are just not one of them.

Mileage-wise, I have been averaging 14k per year since adding the touring lineup in 2009, and still own my Shovelhead from the 80s which has 100k plus miles on it.   If I combine the cost of all the breakdowns on all my Harleys in all those years, it does not add up to the cost of one ESP plan.  Granted I stay on top of my own equipment as PMs require.

Three of my last four bikes needed some sort of warranty work during the two year factory warranty period, nothing major.  But with each bike the service manager challenged me on honoring the warranty, Factory warranties!  The most ridiculous of which had to do with the Harmon Kardon radio, it stopped working.  Manager said he could deny the warranty based on my replacing slip on mufflers.  He said they were not factory, therefore the harmonics of the whole bike are changed, and if he choose to write that in the repair notes, my warranty would be over.  Why would anyone want to pay to extend that relationship?   The cost of a flat rate Radio exchange at Iron Cross was $150 at that time, a lot less than any ESP! 

Sounds like it's time to find a new dealer.

[YELLOWBIRD]

Sounds like it's time to find a new dealer.

I was thinking the same thing!



 

YB

[FLTRCVO]

journeyman sound like you have a demon of a Service Manager you didn't handle and it's poisoned your outlook. That is as nice as I can put it. A lot of nice people have put their honest opinions up to be digested with real case scenarios; now keep in mind other parts of the board which mention 110 engine longevity and such. But you just want to chew on it.

Now here is a real scenario: My 2009 FLTRSE3 83696 miles, blown engine, D and D 2 into 1 Boss Exhaust, Screamin Eagle Pro Race Tuner towed into the Dealer; Dealer breaks down the motor, calls ESP, ESP inspects it, ESP calls back to approve the work. The work was done Screamin Eagle Cam Plate and S&S Premium Lifters and my cost $87. and some change. Nobody inquiring about my non cat 2 into 1 pipes or the Pro Race Tuner,Total of the Invoice $6300.
So that $2000. you put aside will not be enough, not even if you doubled it or tripled it.

 What do you think journeyman? The damn radio blew the engine, that's what must of happen, what do you think the odds (gamble) the Service Manager was going to intimidate and or bullcrap me and tell me my motor wasn't covered due to the radio being played too loud, thus, destroying the internal components of the motor? Answer: He didn't attempt it he just repaired the motorcycle which brought in revenue to the shop, he did his job.


Eight out of eight that is how many of us in my group here in Las Vegas have Extended Warranties in excess of 16 years and the least net per contact was +$2958. and that person never has a bike more than 3 - 4 years. Keep in mind the first two years are warranty now years ago it was one year warranty for non CVO motorcycles not too long ago.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Everyone like to think they made the best decision, and it seems to have worked out OK for you but, you are 3 for 3 with bikes that had catastrophic breakdowns?  You have to admit this does not accurately reflect what the average guy is to expect, or possibly ever even hear of.

The average CVO owner must have made some good financial decisions in order to get one, not trying to single you out personally, just ESP plans are just not one of them.

Mileage-wise, I have been averaging 14k per year since adding the touring lineup in 2009, and still own my Shovelhead from the 80s which has 100k plus miles on it.   If I combine the cost of all the breakdowns on all my Harleys in all those years, it does not add up to the cost of one ESP plan.  Granted I stay on top of my own equipment as PMs require.

Three of my last four bikes needed some sort of warranty work during the two year factory warranty period, nothing major.  But with each bike the service manager challenged me on honoring the warranty, Factory warranties!  The most ridiculous of which had to do with the Harmon Kardon radio, it stopped working.  Manager said he could deny the warranty based on my replacing slip on mufflers.  He said they were not factory, therefore the harmonics of the whole bike are changed, and if he choose to write that in the repair notes, my warranty would be over.  Why would anyone want to pay to extend that relationship?   The cost of a flat rate Radio exchange at Iron Cross was $150 at that time, a lot less than any ESP!

Let me say, I have never bought and ESP, I'm on my 5th CVO since 2009.  That said, I have considered it very hard.  The CVO 110 has a very poor reliability record, much worse than the 88, 96 and 103 engines.  They are notorious for failed lifter and compensators.

I personally know 5 people, and and 7 bikes that have had lifter failures, obviously of those people have had it happen twice.

I put high miles on my bikes in a short time.  My 09 CVO with 46K on it when I traded it had the lifters fail on the first demo after the dealer owned it.  It had two compensators while I owned it.  My 12 had a failed regulator and compensator before I traded it.  My 13 CVO has had zero issues, but I replaced the lifters with 5K on the bike.  My 15 CVO Road Glide Ultra lifters failed with 43800 miles on the bike, at 2 years and 10 days old, Motor had to be replaced.

So I also know 3 2015 CVO Road Glide Ultras that have had the motor replaced counting mine.

Other than my 13 CVO which with a help of a friend the motor was built right, if I am going to keep the bike over two years on a 110 motor, it will have an ESP.

I am hope that my 114 M8 has a better track record than the 110. That said, I have no ESP on it. 

I do understand people with an ESP on a 110 bike.  I do not on a 103 bike or a 96 bike.

[skratch]

Three of my last four bikes needed some sort of warranty work during the two year factory warranty period, nothing major.  But with each bike the service manager challenged me on honoring the warranty, Factory warranties!  The most ridiculous of which had to do with the Harmon Kardon radio, it stopped working.  Manager said he could deny the warranty based on my replacing slip on mufflers.  He said they were not factory, therefore the harmonics of the whole bike are changed, and if he choose to write that in the repair notes, my warranty would be over.  Why would anyone want to pay to extend that relationship?   The cost of a flat rate Radio exchange at Iron Cross was $150 at that time, a lot less than any ESP!

my question would be, why would anyone pay to buy anything from a dealership like that?  i would travel further to avoid a dealer like that, even if it was just to buy an oil filter.

eta:  others said the same thing before i posted... sorry.

but just to add, i bought the esp for my wife's bike.  not because she puts a lot of miles on it, but because we do like to take some road trips and 'peace of mind' while on the road was more than worth the amount i spent.  turned out, she had the abs module go out.  new abs module, new rear master cylinder, with bleeding and labor bill came out over $1000.  still have 4 years left on the esp, more than half paid for.

my problem is that if i hadn't bought the esp, i wouldn't have had the money to fix her bike.  the $1800 i spent on the esp is gone.  if i hadn't bought the esp, i would have spent it on something else.  when her bike broke down, it was a whole lot easier to come up with $50, then what the repair bill would have been.

[journeyman]

Maybe you missed:
Mileage-wise, I have been averaging 14k per year since adding the touring lineup in 2009, and still own my Shovelhead from the 80s which has 100k plus miles on it.   If I combine the cost of all the breakdowns on all my Harleys in all those years, it does not add up to the cost of one ESP plan.  Granted I stay on top of my own equipment as PMs require.

[skratch]

no, didn't miss that.  but I didn't see how long you've had a 110.  the 88s, 96s, 103s are pretty stout platforms, while the 110 is known to be fairly problematic.  and most of the issues are not things that would be noticed during routine pm.

[FLTRCVO]

Maybe you missed:
Mileage-wise, I have been averaging 14k per year since adding the touring lineup in 2009, and still own my Shovelhead from the 80s which has 100k plus miles on it.   If I combine the cost of all the breakdowns on all my Harleys in all those years, it does not add up to the cost of one ESP plan.  Granted I stay on top of my own equipment as PMs require.

  You were blessed my son, consider you self extremely fortunate. There are many wrenches / members on this site that have made a hell of a lot more than $2000. per episode on repairing the 110 motors that suffered a premature catastrophic failures. However, it appears more individuals are in the affirmative with regard to the Extended Warranty being a positive thing; yet you continue to wear like burlap.

My distrust for the Motor Company came with the release of the Evolution motor, (I see you didn't list that motor) infamous for leaking oil, from that point on it was Extended Warranty all the way because all the repairs by the dealers seemed to be experimental during the EVO days. As previously stated, it has been a true investment, if fact it is the only investment I made that wasn't affected by the recession.

 

[FLSTFI Dave]

Maybe you missed:
Mileage-wise, I have been averaging 14k per year since adding the touring lineup in 2009, and still own my Shovelhead from the 80s which has 100k plus miles on it.   If I combine the cost of all the breakdowns on all my Harleys in all those years, it does not add up to the cost of one ESP plan.  Granted I stay on top of my own equipment as PMs require.

Maybe you missed a my two year, ten day old CVO that the lifters had catastrophic failure and the motor had to be replaced, 43,800 miles on the bike, or my friends 15 CVO Road Glide ultra that also had to have the motor replaced with 35K on it, luckily his was still under factory warranty.  Or my 09 that with 46K on it had the lifters fail taking out the cam.

Pretty good reasons for an ESP if your keeping the bike.  3 of my 4 CVO's have and major issues.  If I kept them longer than two years I sure would look hard at an ESP.  Most do not have 40K on their bike in 2 years.  All of my issues have been between 30 and 46K lucky for me all covered under warranty, but if I put 10 or 15K a year on those bikes, all would have been out of pocket.

The bike with no issues, the motor was built with only 2500 miles on the bike with higher quality parts.

[bad00serg]

I will just add that while I don't doubt that there are occasional problems with the 110, the fact is that if the ESP companies were losing on insuring 110s (they have had 10 years worth of claims now to determine if that is the case), you can bet they would correct the problem via a ridiculous price increase on 110 ESPs.  Like it or not, the ESP companies WIN overall, or they would not be in business to pay for the occasional large repair.  They employ very smart number crunchers who determine the price to charge for their product to ensure that they win.

On forums like this people post all their problems - for each, there are hundreds or thousands of others that will never experience the seemingly "huge issues" that the minority continually bring up. I don't think anyone is "blessed or extremely fortunate" because they have not had 110 issues - that just can't be the case!

[journeyman]

I will just add that while I don't doubt that there are occasional problems with the 110, the fact is that if the ESP companies were losing on insuring 110s (they have had 10 years worth of claims now to determine if that is the case), you can bet they would correct the problem via a ridiculous price increase on 110 ESPs.  Like it or not, the ESP companies WIN overall, or they would not be in business to pay for the occasional large repair.  They employ very smart number crunchers who determine the price to charge for their product to ensure that they win.

On forums like this people post all their problems - for each, there are hundreds or thousands of others that will never experience the seemingly "huge issues" that the minority continually bring up. I don't think anyone is "blessed or extremely fortunate" because they have not had 110 issues - that just can't be the case!

Finally some common sense!  The guys with the exploding engines are killing me : )

The exploding engine guys are starting to sound like cases of neglect.    I'm actually surprised those things aren't getting challenged.   A little TLC goes a long way!  Reminds me of how my mom would drive her car without oil until it broke down.

When my 2011sg started pinging at 12k, I addressed it, tuned it to retard the timing.    When the engine started getting loud it 40k,  I addressed it, replaced the lifters, traded it 10k later.   No exploding engine.  No ESP.  Just some attention to details and PM.

[iski]

Go ahead & delete it, but dammit it fits.

[OBB]

Go ahead & delete it, but dammit it fits.

[FLTRCVO]

I will just add that while I don't doubt that there are occasional problems with the 110, the fact is that if the ESP companies were losing on insuring 110s (they have had 10 years worth of claims now to determine if that is the case), you can bet they would correct the problem via a ridiculous price increase on 110 ESPs.  Like it or not, the ESP companies WIN overall, or they would not be in business to pay for the occasional large repair.  They employ very smart number crunchers who determine the price to charge for their product to ensure that they win.

On forums like this people post all their problems - for each, there are hundreds or thousands of others that will never experience the seemingly "huge issues" that the minority continually bring up. I don't think anyone is "blessed or extremely fortunate" because they have not had 110 issues - that just can't be the case!

True, the average miles driven by a Harley owner is less than 4,000 miles per year; the same ones that want to just say they own a Harley, paid more than MSRP, and only ride to the Dealerships on weekends wearing their brand new just released Harley garb to pose. 

[FLTRCVO]

journeyman, your statement "The exploding engine guys are starting to sound like cases of neglect", I had a lifter implode in engine case, should I have swapped out the lifter while I was performing my 2500 mile P.M., if so, the Service Manual is missing that section; Was there oil in it? Yes; Was the oil up to almost filled? Yes; Did I bring this bike to the Dealer and inform them of a lifter issue in advance? Yes; Did the Service Adviser tell me according to the tech the noise I am calling a lifter noise is actually pinging due to ambient temperature? Yes; Did I go home, dump the oil, pull the oil filter saw it in half and find a pile of metal in the filter and oil plug? Yes; Did I call the Service Manager and inform him of the aforementioned situation? You bet I did, and I told him to record our conversation on the invoice. I went down to see the General Manager to informed him of the situation, the Service Manager came out and stood by his techs diagnosis. I stated, the lifter is making noise the next time it will be getting towed in. I have been riding this bike since 2009 every summer in Las Vegas and my bike don't ping.
So I know your not referring to my so-called exploding engine, or accusing me of neglecting motorcycle maintenance, because this was chronicled in the proper thread after you joined but I guess you missed it or read it and didn't comprehend it or your barb simply wasn't directed at me. If so I am so sincerely sorry for this miniature bash to a Newbie.