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[SBB]

Does four out of five make me a "Fat Cat"?
 

Send me another bottle of Glare and I'll call you whatever you like!

                  

SBB

[16HD117]

Send me another bottle of Glare and I'll call you whatever you like!

                  

SBB

On the way!

[SBB]

On the way!

You are da man!

 

SBB

[sadunbar]

I generally try to stay out of "Buy American" conversations, but I will make this brief exception...

Go into any Japanese powertrain or assembly plant, and you will find virtually 100% Japanese supplied machine tools and automation.  Go into any German powertrain or assembly plant and you will find virtually 100% German supplied machine tools and automation.  Same with Korean powertrain and assembly plants - they are full of Korean supplied manufacturing equipment.  And this is regardless of what country the plants are located in...  Japanese or German assembly plants located in the US are full of Japanese and German industrial manufactured equipment - just the same as their assembly plants located in Japan or Germany.

But - go into a GM, Ford, Chrysler plant located in the US or Canada - and try to find American or Canadian manufactured machine tools or automation.  You will find virtually none.  American car companies play the "Buy American" card with the American public at every opportunity.  But to a great extent, the American manufacturing economy - expecially the machine tool industry - has all but disappeared due to the American automotive suppliers abandonment of American made machine tools and American made automation.  In there opinion - it's ok for the American car companies to buy equipment globally, but it is not ok for the American automotive buyer to buy globally - because it is "Un-American".  "Buy American" only applies to their customers - it doesn't apply to their own buying habits.  I am not sure where they think there customers are going to come from once industrial manufacturing no longer exists in the US.

**disclaimer**  Every car or truck I have ever owned has been purchased from an American owned car company - either GM or Ford....

[VaEagle]

I wonder how much EPA laws for pollution as well as public desire NOT to have a heavy industrial plant near populated areas has affected the ability for the U.S. to make it's own tools and Basic parts? I also don't know how much raw material North America has vs. other countries when it comes to those things that need to mined for our products. Have our products become dependant on exotic elements and computer parts not just steel/ iron ore etc.?

I do find it strange that Toyota at this time is telling people to keep driving when there has been fatal accidents due to this issue. I would think this would open up lots of room for lawsuits if something happens after the problem has been documented.

I have NOT had the "bad quality American car" experience the media claims since I have owned GM vehicles for most of my life and have never had major issues. I drove Suburbans for 16 years and they were made in Michigan or Canada, my last two trucks have been the Chevy Avalanche that is made in Mexico and I think they have been the best trucks I have ever owned.

[flhse]

I have NOT had the "bad quality American car" experience the media claims since I have owned GM vehicles for most of my life and have never had major issues. I drove Suburbans for 16 years and they were made in Michigan or Canada, my last two trucks have been the Chevy Avalanche that is made in Mexico and I think they have been the best trucks I have ever owned.

 

Totally agree

Brad

[kraut]

it may be a mayor mistake to write anything in this thread - but I will anyway.

As a German citizen riding an american bike and writing this on a korean computer, transmitted to you via a taiwanese UMTS-modem: I regard "buy american" no less repulsive as "buy german" or "don't buy from the Jews".

I buy whatever fits my needs best and I don't care where it's produced.

Fair and unhibited trade used to be one of the highest principles of the free nations, formerly in the first line promoted by the US of A - in the times when american exporters and investors were out to conquer the world and feared nothing and nobody - except perhaps god and the IRS 

If everybody adopted this policy "buy only local products" we were on our way back to stone-age.

I had a Totota J 73 for some years for hunting - believe it or not this car was the toughest and most reliable off-roader I ever had - and I had a Willy's, a Mercedes G-Model and a Landrover as well - they all were nice cars but didn't do the rough jobs as the Toyota did. Go to Africa and yo will see what I mean.

The american automotive industry beeing no longer competitive is not the Japanese's fault. It's home-made and every day somebody cries "buy american" will just prolongue the agony.

Will the american tax-payer ever learn? You payed billions to compensate for the mismanagement of GM & Co - what did you achieve? You spared some companies from "survival of the fittest" for some month ...

Ok, I'll stop it now 

[ultrafxr]

Kraut, you have some valid points.  My intention never was to say 'buy American' and all else be damned.  Sure American auto manufacturers have made some tremendous blunders just as others have also.  When they were the only game in town they thought they were invincible and in my opinion gave too much to the unions to keep them happy and production running and management also squandered much of their assets (and goodwill) on themselves.  Let's hope they have all learned a lesson.  The Japanese auto makers gave them a well deserved 'wake up call' for sure but they are not perfect and the domestic ones are not totally without merit.  Let's just let all compete on equal footing.

[grc]

Kraut, you have some valid points.  My intention never was to say 'buy American' and all else be damned.  Sure American auto manufacturers have made some tremendous blunders just as others have also.  When they were the only game in town they thought they were invincible and in my opinion gave too much to the unions to keep them happy and production running and management also squandered much of their assets (and goodwill) on themselves.  Let's hope they have all learned a lesson.  The Japanese auto makers gave them a well deserved 'wake up call' for sure but they are not perfect and the domestic ones are not totally without merit.  Let's just let all compete on equal footing.

That's the crux of the matter right there, equal footing.  For all too long, there has been nothing close to equal footing.  Japan manipulated currencies for decades and heavily subsidized industries that exported products to the US.  At the same time they maintained high import duties disguised as inspection fees that caused an American car to double in price in Japan, effectively eliminating any chance of our companies competing in Japan.  Strangely enough, this same type of manipulation and disregard for trade laws is now the modus operandi of the Chinese.  And once again the US government is sitting on it's hands while they steal jobs from our people.  Case in point, the proven dumping of Chinese subsidized steel products in this country which has put thousands of steelworkers out of work, in violation of international trade laws and treaties.

Anyhow, I can agree with kraut that ideally we would buy products that best meet our needs, regardless of origin.  As soon as all countries actually play by the rules, I'll support that idea.  In the meantime, I'll support those in my country who are struggling to survive as their jobs are exported to the lowest cost sweat shops in the third world.  The ultimate result of the "globalization" of manufacturing will be to lower wages to the lowest common denominator.  First we exported jobs to Mexico, the land of $1 per hour and no environmental rules.  Then we found even cheaper sources in places like Sri Lanka, India, etc.  And now we have the ultimate source, slave and child labor in China with absolutely no regard for safety, environment, or anything else.  For those who make their living in something other than manufacturing, maybe this doesn't bother them.  But just remember all those computer jobs that were supposed to replace the manufacturing jobs, only they got outsourced to India.  It can happen to pretty much any job.  Think you're immune to globalization because you're a doctor, for instance?  Check out the growing number of people who are traveling to India for procedures, because even with travel costs the doctors and hospitals there will do it cheaper.  At this point, I can't think of many jobs that aren't exportable, other than President of the United States (still requires a natural born citizen).

Jerry

[16HD117]

it may be a mayor mistake to write anything in this thread - but I will anyway.

As a German citizen riding an american bike and writing this on a korean computer, transmitted to you via a taiwanese UMTS-modem: I regard "buy american" no less repulsive as "buy german" or "don't buy from the Jews".

I buy whatever fits my needs best and I don't care where it's produced.

Fair and unhibited trade used to be one of the highest principles of the free nations, formerly in the first line promoted by the US of A - in the times when american exporters and investors were out to conquer the world and feared nothing and nobody - except perhaps god and the IRS 

If everybody adopted this policy "buy only local products" we were on our way back to stone-age.

I had a Totota J 73 for some years for hunting - believe it or not this car was the toughest and most reliable off-roader I ever had - and I had a Willy's, a Mercedes G-Model and a Landrover as well - they all were nice cars but didn't do the rough jobs as the Toyota did. Go to Africa and yo will see what I mean.

The american automotive industry beeing no longer competitive is not the Japanese's fault. It's home-made and every day somebody cries "buy american" will just prolongue the agony.

Will the american tax-payer ever learn? You payed billions to compensate for the mismanagement of GM & Co - what did you achieve? You spared some companies from "survival of the fittest" for some month ...

Ok, I'll stop it now 

 

[Gettinold]

  We watch !!

[grc]

Back to the original subject of the thread.  Toyota dealers have become very vocal about Toyota shipping new parts to the assembly plants first rather than the dealers, while still not communicating definite fixes and timetables to the dealers.  I'm totally amazed at how the management of Toyota, who used to control public perception so well, have basically committed one blunder after another.  Even if there was a valid reason for shipping parts to assembly plants first, it gives the appearance that they are more interested in cranking up those assembly lines than they are interested in the current owners of suspect cars and trucks.  I'm thinking that the stress of trying to rapidly grow the business and crush the competition has finally caught up with the vaunted "Japan, Inc.".  Funny how in business just as in sports or in real life, getting to the top is often more easy than staying on top.

BTW, they still refuse to say whether they will "fix" the current pedal assemblies in the cars, or just replace them with new redesigned parts.  Let me see, which would I prefer on my car, some modification of an existing poorly designed part performed by just any ol' dealer tech, or a complete replacement which any semi-competent tech can perform easily?  Folks who had their Harley 110's butchered during the oil leak fiasco might have a response to that one.

Jerry

[SBB]

Back to the original subject of the thread.  Toyota dealers have become very vocal about Toyota shipping new parts to the assembly plants first rather than the dealers, while still not communicating definite fixes and timetables to the dealers.  I'm totally amazed at how the management of Toyota, who used to control public perception so well, have basically committed one blunder after another.  Even if there was a valid reason for shipping parts to assembly plants first, it gives the appearance that they are more interested in cranking up those assembly lines than they are interested in the current owners of suspect cars and trucks.  I'm thinking that the stress of trying to rapidly grow the business and crush the competition has finally caught up with the vaunted "Japan, Inc.".  Funny how in business just as in sports or in real life, getting to the top is often more easy than staying on top.

BTW, they still refuse to say whether they will "fix" the current pedal assemblies in the cars, or just replace them with new redesigned parts.  Let me see, which would I prefer on my car, some modification of an existing poorly designed part performed by just any ol' dealer tech, or a complete replacement which any semi-competent tech can perform easily?  Folks who had their Harley 110's butchered during the oil leak fiasco might have a response to that one.

Jerry

Does anyone see the parallel to Harley in this?

 

SBB

[kb]

Buy AMERICAN

[VI48]

And I too will step into this one.
I am also a Toyota sales mgr, and I have a few things to say about this.

First and foremost - the media does a real good job of blowing every thing out of perportion.
 
    The Denso made accelerator in Toyotas works just fine.
    It is the average guy such as employees that get hurt the most.
    The affected cars do not accelerate on there own.
    Toyota plants have shut down in order to get parts to current
    owners first.
   
As far as North American Auto makers go, rich executives that run these companies screwed the American and Canadian consumers a long time ago. Individual private jets and multimillion dollar salaries
go along way to paying people to work in the factories.

So is buying a "domestic" made in Mexico domestic, or is buying a Toyota Tundra made in Texas an Import.

My H.D. is from U.S.A., my Corolla is from Canada. Take a look around hour house or your yard and tell me it is not a world economy
I also vacation in the States, is that wrong or should I spend my money in my own back yard.

Lance