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[Jim Kerr]

I'm out in the West Suburbs, maybe we can meet some where for a burger and beer some day.

Hawk, I'm always looking for someone to ride with.  I live in the City and there are not many people with bikes downtown.  If you or anyone in the area wants to ride let me know.  I'm happy to ride out of town and meet you. 

[planenut]

thanks jim for the updates on the exhaust project and the great info

[..Hawk]

It figures that the weather just took a dump for awhile.  I'll keep in touch Jim and try and get a ride in before the seasons over.

[Jim Kerr]

Here's a video of my pipe changes.  The video steps through the stock pipes, the stock pipes without the catalytic converter and finally the beautiful sound of the v-twin and fullsac 1 3/4" baffles.  You need good speakers to listen to this, but it's night and day difference from stock. 

Here's my Radio Shack sound meter details:

Idle with cat: 93db - w/o cat: 96db - w/fullsac baffles: 100db
2K RPM with cat: 102db - w/o cat: 100db - w/fullsac baffles: 103db
3K RPM with cat: 96db - w/o cat: 101db - w/fullsac baffles: 107db
4K RPM with cat: 104db - w/o cat: 105db - w/fullsac baffles: 110db
5K RPM with cat: 102db - w/o cat: 106db - w/fullsac baffles: 109db

The pipes now have a lot more base, but the volume is not intrusive at all.  I can still hear the radio and it doesn't set off car alarms when I drive by.  I'm going to Dyno next week.  We'll soon see what difference the pipe changes have actually made. 

[sadunbar]

Here's a video of my pipe changes.  The video steps through the stock pipes, the stock pipes without the catalytic converter and finally the beautiful sound of the v-twin and fullsac 1 3/4" baffles.  You need good speakers to listen to this, but it's night and day difference from stock. 

Here's my Radio Shack sound meter details:

Idle with cat: 93db - w/o cat: 96db - w/fullsac baffles: 100db
2K RPM with cat: 102db - w/o cat: 100db - w/fullsac baffles: 103db
3K RPM with cat: 96db - w/o cat: 101db - w/fullsac baffles: 107db
4K RPM with cat: 104db - w/o cat: 105db - w/fullsac baffles: 110db
5K RPM with cat: 102db - w/o cat: 106db - w/fullsac baffles: 109db

The pipes now have a lot more base, but the volume is not intrusive at all.  I can still hear the radio and it doesn't set off car alarms when I drive by.  I'm going to Dyno next week.  We'll soon see what difference the pipe changes have actually made. 

Jim,

Where are you having your dyno tune done?

Scott

[Robmay]

Thanks Jim. Well done as always!

[Jim Kerr]

Where are you having your dyno tune done?

I'm going to IL Harley Davidson on Harlem.  They have an awesome engine guy that knows his way around the Dyno and Harley fuel injection systems.  I've met with most of the dealers in the area and this guy seems to know what he's doing better than most.  The proof, of course, is in the outcome.  I'll let you know how it goes when I get the bike back. 

[911Hawk]

How will this effect the PCM? To my understanding a Power Commander program is not available for the 09 at this time.
Thanks for the great info as these are the changes I will make.

911 Hawk
09 SERG
NC

[Jim Kerr]

How will this effect the PCM? To my understanding a Power Commander program is not available for the 09 at this time.

I'm using the Super Race Tuner, not Power Commander.  You would use one or the other.  There are advantages to both.  Super SERT's advantage is that they have maps for the new models and they allow much more control over the computer (Throttle by wire control is a good example).  Power commander can be removed without anyone knowing it was there and it is a lot easier to use.   

[911Hawk]

If I make the changes you made, What effects would I have without some type of tuner ?
Thanks,

[Jim Kerr]

The O2 sensor on the bikes is designed to handle exhaust changes.  The bike was running fine without a race tuner.  The key issue for me is that stock bikes run way too lean in order to meet EPA standards.  To get the most power out of the bike and cool the engine down you need a tuner and enrichen the mixture. 

There are other options to put more fuel in the bike, but they aren't available for the 09's yet.  The cheapest I've found was sent to me by Iglide.  The company is called Nightrider (www.nightrider.com).  They sell a product called XiED that will trick the O2 sensor in thinking the bike is leaner than it actually is.  This causes the computer to add fuel.  Great product.  Can't wait to see how it works when they get it to work with the 09's. 

[911Hawk]

The wait for a Power Commander program is killing me. Can't wait to get started.

Thanks, for all your help

[Jim Kerr]

The wait for a Power Commander program is killing me. Can't wait to get started.

Thanks, for all your help

They will eventually get it working.  moco changed the bikes big time in 09.  The O2 sensors work differently, the ECM protocol is different, we have throttle by wire, we have a new exhaust design, they put the cat's in the headers, etc.  Power Commander connects between the ECM in order to fool it into thinking the bike is running stock when it isn't.  moco doesn't like it when they don't make money off of us and/or when we try to trick their computer.  moco's strategy is the same as when they went to the Twin Cam from the Evolution engines.  They change things around enough to make it difficult for competitors to compete with them.  If you want to make an ECM change now you're going to need the Super SERT.  Otherwise hang in there for awhile.  The market will catch up. 

[bribe36]

Hey Jim

I greatly appreciate everthing you have been doing, the write ups, pics and videos are great and helpfull. This is my first CVO and I'm a little concerned about the effect of these changes on the warranty, especially the extended warranty. What is your thought on the moco giving a fellow grief for a claim on a bike that has these things done. Also are you planning on keeping this bike for a long time and did you purchase the extended warranty?

[Jim Kerr]

I greatly appreciate everthing you have been doing, the write ups, pics and videos are great and helpfull. This is my first CVO and I'm a little concerned about the effect of these changes on the warranty, especially the extended warranty. What is your thought on the moco giving a fellow grief for a claim on a bike that has these things done. Also are you planning on keeping this bike for a long time and did you purchase the extended warranty?

Guys have been modifying their bikes since day one.  How many bikes have you seen that have stock pipes and air cleaners?  Taking a hard line on warranty for items damaged that have nothing to do with the mods that were made would have a serious impact on their bottom line.  This would have even more of an impact if a moco after market mod failed causing the problem and they didn't cover it.  This stuff is not cheap.  MoCo makes much more money on after market parts than they do selling new bikes and they build in a good profit margin on new bikes that cover warranty repairs.  Dealers make money off of parts sales, dnyo's and service.  Warranty claims are certainly expensive, but many of us do other things while we are there that helps them offset the cost of the repairs.

I'm not a warranty expert and not providing you with legal direction, but in my opinion I believe MoCo knows their entire network would crash if they forced everyone to stay stock.  No one would buy the extended warranty that couldn't be used, we would all be out here talking about how to install parts from third-party's that MoCo doesn't know about, dealers would loose a large portion of sales because we'd be afraid to have them order or install the mods in case we had an issue we needed them to cover, etc.  From what I've seen, moco generally fix warranty items no questions asked.  In most cases, MoCo relys on the dealer to make the determiniation.  Build a good relationship with a couple of dealers by spending money with them.  Get to know them and make sure they know you.   Dealers are the ones that will help you when you need it.