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[SFC CVO]

I want to go S4 on my 19 CVORG within the next few weeks to take advantage of the “60 day” full warranty. Do anyone have experience with SE (Pro Street / Pro Auto) tuners while using HD and/or aftermarket headers?

[SDCVO]

I have the S4 on my 19 RG with stock headers and TAB mufflers with Zombie baffles. Bike runs and sounds great. IMO all depends on your riding style. I see many complain about the S4 and how in the revs it runs but for me that is perfect with my riding style. If you don't ride that way you might want to think about doing it. I understand that none HD "stuff" would probably perform better but for me keeping the warranty intake is important as I have had some issues (understatement) inn the past.
Hope this helps

[Para Bellum]

I used the Pro Street tuner when I went stage 3 with stock header on my RGU...but only bc it's required for keeping the warranty.  Couldn't use any other brand of tuner, because the map has to be EPA approved.  Not impressed with the MoCo's S3 map or their tuner.  HD got a big kiss from EPA in the settlement:  HD gets to void the warranty if customers use non-HD performance parts.  That will probably let them make back all the fines they paid.

My original plan was to use the HD Torque cam with the stg 3's increased displacement and compression.  Instead, had to use the cam that comes with the S3 bc HD only has EPA approved maps for S2 (TQ or HP cam), S3, or S4.

[SFC CVO]

I have the S4 on my 19 RG with stock headers and TAB mufflers with Zombie baffles. Bike runs and sounds great. IMO all depends on your riding style. I see many complain about the S4 and how in the revs it runs but for me that is perfect with my riding style. If you don't ride that way you might want to think about doing it. I understand that none HD "stuff" would probably perform better but for me keeping the warranty intake is important as I have had some issues (understatement) inn the past.
Hope this helps

Warranty is important to me too. I had the S4 on my 17SG and was impressed with the power within the 4k-5k, however I used it with a TTS tuner and it voided the warranty. Now I'm wondering what sacrifices would be made using SE tuners vs aftermarket.

[SFC CVO]

I used the Pro Street tuner when I went stage 3 with stock header on my RGU...but only bc it's required for keeping the warranty.  Couldn't use any other brand of tuner, because the map has to be EPA approved.  Not impressed with the MoCo's S3 map or their tuner.  HD got a big kiss from EPA in the settlement:  HD gets to void the warranty if customers use non-HD performance parts.  That will probably let them make back all the fines they paid.

My original plan was to use the HD Torque cam with the stg 3's increased displacement and compression.  Instead, had to use the cam that comes with the S3 bc HD only has EPA approved maps for S2 (TQ or HP cam), S3, or S4.

"Not impressed with the MoCo's S3 map or their tuner" Did you get the Auto-tune with the Pro Street Tuner? My dealer is trying to sell me on both.  I was considering getting the S3, what numbers did you end up with? 

[Para Bellum]

"Not impressed with the MoCo's S3 map or their tuner" Did you get the Auto-tune with the Pro Street Tuner? My dealer is trying to sell me on both.  I was considering getting the S3, what numbers did you end up with?

I did not get the Auto-tuner.  As soon as the cables arrive (next few days) I'm going to do Smart Tune, adjust the Warm-up fuel enrichment, and change the throttle blade control at low rpm.  Warm up setting is giving too much fuel for too long, and bike over-responds to small throttle changes at low rpms.

I haven't had dyno pulls done on the bike; I wanted to do the break-in myself, and the local dyno guy isn't great. Also, the PS Tuner can't make a lot of changes...so kinda stuck with what HD has for the S3.

Overall, the bike runs pretty good, but the change from stock to S3 is not impressive, definitely not worth the money...but the M8 sumping problem convinced me to keep the warranty, so had to give up the good aftermarket approach.

[Mr. Warlock]

I may be wrong but I don't believe the SE tuner makes any timing changes which in my opinion is critical.

[grc]

The Street tuner is just a way for Harley to try to recoup the profits they lost when they were no longer able to sell the illegal tuner.  Back before such tuners were available, Harley just had simple downloads your dealer could install to match their various kits, and they cost about a hundred bucks.  Now you basically get the same thing except you pay anywhere from $350 to $750 depending on whether you fall for the "auto tune" feature or not.

Don't forget, the stock ECM already self adjusts by constantly comparing sensor readings to the calibration file (map) settings, creating an offset table for each cylinder.  Adding wide band sensors may be a bit more precise, but it is not and never has been the magical system sellers have claimed. 

Jerry

[bdv77]

;) :drummer:

I want to go S4 on my 19 CVORG within the next few weeks to take advantage of the “60 day” full warranty. Do anyone have experience with SE (Pro Street / Pro Auto) tuners while using HD and/or aftermarket headers?

I have a stage II on my 19 with a fuel moto 2/1/2 head pipe, fuel moto street outlaw slip ons and the SE pro street tuner (to save my warranty), after 2 dyno's they cant tune the bike properly because the tuner holds it with in EPA guidelines. it sounds and performs great until I get on the interstate then it heats up unbearably and gets sluggish. I have bought a power vision and am contemplating voiding my power train warranty all together. Harley sold there sole to the EPA Devil!!

[skratch]

technically, you already have voided the warranty with the installation of the fuelmoto head pipe and slip ons.  now, whether the dealer looks the other way if/when you have a problem, that's a chance that you take.  your local dealer may not have an issue with it, but a dealer on the road might.  then of course, if they have to get an inspector involved, then all bets are off.

[FLSTFI Dave]

If you have the Harley EPA legal tuner you can use the power vision or TTS.  If the bike has to be hooked to a computer at the dealership, flash it back to the Harley tuner EPA tune.  Harley can only tell if it has been flashed.  If you have the HD EPA tuner they will believe that is what flashed the ECM.

Now if you just have power vision or TTS and tune the bike, and put it back to stock, they know its been flashed, and you do not have the only legal tuner your warranty is void. 

[havenolife]

If you have the Harley EPA legal tuner you can use the power vision or TTS.  If the bike has to be hooked to a computer at the dealership, flash it back to the Harley tuner EPA tune.  Harley can only tell if it has been flashed.  If you have the HD EPA tuner they will believe that is what flashed the ECM.

Now if you just have power vision or TTS and tune the bike, and put it back to stock, they know its been flashed, and you do not have the only legal tuner your warranty is void.

I thought the tts master tune was undetectable am I wrong

[CVOStreetglide]

I thought the tts master tune was undetectable am I wrong

My understanding is YES you are wrong UNLESS you reflashed the ECM back to the Harley/EPA compliant factory tune.

Now where it need some clarification is that MY understanding is that the new Harley’s with the Can Bus actually have another place that the ECM records if it has been flashed or reflashed.

If that flag has been set, due to any OEM tuner your warranty is essentially “toast.”

[havenolife]

My understanding is YES you are wrong UNLESS you reflashed the ECM back to the Harley/EPA compliant factory tune.

Now where it need some clarification is that MY understanding is that the new Harley’s with the Can Bus actually have another place that the ECM records if it has been flashed or reflashed.

If that flag has been set, due to any OEM tuner your warranty is essentially “toast.”

I will rephrase I thought that the TTS Master Tune bragged about being the one and only one that you can put the factory map and time stamp back in and no one would ever now in fact I rember a member or 2 here on this site that said that they did it     

[grc]

I will rephrase I thought that the TTS Master Tune bragged about being the one and only one that you can put the factory map and time stamp back in and no one would ever now in fact I rember a member or 2 here on this site that said that they did it     

Steve Cole (TTS) would be the one you might want to ask.  I know it was undetectable if you reverted back to the stock map with the TTS on the older bikes, but I don't remember anyone actually proving one way or another that it still works on the CAN bus models.  I remember asking that question on this forum some time back but no one had a definitive answer at the time.

Jerry