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CVO Technical => Drive Train => Topic started by: Sklywag on July 25, 2009, 11:47:28 AM
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Helping a friend today who has never done his own oil change.
I heard that the 09 96" takes more oil in the primary. Have heard 1.25 qts & also 1.4 quarts.
Who knows the correct amount for the 09 96".
Thanks
Bill
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38 ounces drain and fill.
45 ounces if outer primary cover removed.
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Thanks Much!
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38 ounces drain and fill.
45 ounces if outer primary cover removed.
Yes Bob, I'm lazy.
How many ounces in a quart?
:nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:
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32oz in a quart. :)
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32oz in a quart. :)
The only reason the MOCO raised the lubricant qty was to sell more primary oil. :soapbox:
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The only reason the MOCO raised the lubricant qty was to sell more primary oil. :soapbox:
I would normally agree with you, but I don't believe the folks at Harley think that far ahead these days. ;)
The part I love is the difference between the drain & fill quantity, and the dry fill quantity. Makes one wonder why they couldn't design it so all the crud drains out. I've removed the primary on the old style and found less than one ounce clinging to little spots in there; now they have a seven ounce difference. What's that in terms of percentage, 16% that doesn't drain?
Need some JB Weld (industrial size) and just fill up some of those nooks and crannies until the capacity is back to the one quart (32 oz.) size.
Jerry
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I would normally agree with you, but I don't believe the folks at Harley think that far ahead these days. ;)
The part I love is the difference between the drain & fill quantity, and the dry fill quantity. Makes one wonder why they couldn't design it so all the crud drains out. I've removed the primary on the old style and found less than one ounce clinging to little spots in there; now they have a seven ounce difference. What's that in terms of percentage, 16% that doesn't drain?
Need some JB Weld (industrial size) and just fill up some of those nooks and crannies until the capacity is back to the one quart (32 oz.) size.
Jerry
Have noticed a tendency for the primary to retain a significant amount of fluid upon draining. Almost not worth it to drain it before removing the outer, since you're gonna make a mess either way..........unless you're on the side stand, I'd wager. Always seems to be a nice size puddle left in mine upon draining for service. Most recent change (Saturday evening) was first since 3.37 upgrade. No fuzz on the plug, so not terribly concerned, but would be ideal to get more of the old stuff out before pouring fresh stuff in.
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Read your owners manual when you got the bike??? It has a chart with all the fluids.
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Read your owners manual when you got the bike??? It has a chart with all the fluids.
Nah. Only do that when all else fails, lol. :huepfenjump3:
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On the subject of primary chaincase oil, its was recomended on my 2006 Street Glide to use Syn3 but now on my 09 CVO the manual recommends Harley-Davidson Formula+ Transmission and Primary Chaincase Lubricant. I'm in the middle of the oil changes and all I have is Syn3 and would like to ride my bike to work in the morning but I sure can wait to get the proper lubricant if it matters. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Sorry I should have added for the transmission as well.
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On the subject of primary chaincase oil, its was recomended on my 2006 Street Glide to use Syn3 but now on my 09 CVO the manual recommends Harley-Davidson Formula+ Transmission and Primary Chaincase Lubricant. I'm in the middle of the oil changes and all I have is Syn3 and would like to ride my bike to work in the morning but I sure can wait to get the proper lubricant if it matters. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I just switched over to Redline fluids for all 3 holes in my '10 SESG and the bike shifts better and the motor is quieter.
Just my $.02
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Thanks for the Redline suggestion, maybe next time. I have 7 litres of SYN3 in the garage. Maybe I'm not thinking tonight because after reading the manual more I couldn't find any mention of SYN3 at all but I think all 3 holes came with it from the factory. I'm going back to the garage to put the oil to her so I will be riding in the morning.
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Have noticed a tendency for the primary to retain a significant amount of fluid upon draining. Almost not worth it to drain it before removing the outer, since you're gonna make a mess either way..........unless you're on the side stand, I'd wager. Always seems to be a nice size puddle left in mine upon draining for service. Most recent change (Saturday evening) was first since 3.37 upgrade. No fuzz on the plug, so not terribly concerned, but would be ideal to get more of the old stuff out before pouring fresh stuff in.
I drained my primary on the side stand and it was also leaning quite a bit because of the slope of the driveway. 46 ounces came out, So I put it on the bike jack on a level surface and put 46 ounces back in. CAHDBIKER
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I have used Formula Plus since I got rid of the Syn 3. Works very good in the Primary and Tranny.
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I drained my primary on the side stand and it was also leaning quite a bit because of the slope of the driveway. 46 ounces came out, So I put it on the bike jack on a level surface and put 46 ounces back in. CAHDBIKER
something is odd with this, never seen any primary take 46 oz. my SERG manual says 38oz, 96's say 32oz.
too much is not good.
rule of thumb is fill enough to cover the bottom of the clutch basket
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something is odd with this, never seen any primary take 46 oz. my SERG manual says 38oz, 96's say 32oz.
too much is not good.
rule of thumb is fill enough to cover the bottom of the clutch basket
That is what I thought also, but since my bike was leaning quite a bit on the side stand I figured I would replace what came out since the last time it was changed was at the Harley Dealer. When I put in the 46 ounces the bike was level in both directions and upright. When I was filling it I kept checking to see how far up the fluid level was and when I was done it was just covering the bottom of the clutch basket. I think maybe that since it was leaning so much when I drained it that all of it came out instead of just the normal 38 ounces. I haven't ridden it yet, but if it works good I am not going to worry about it. Maybe leaning the bike like I did is a way of getting all of the fluid out instead of doing the service in an upright position and getting only about 38 ounces out. Thanks for your input. CAHDBIKER
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I use a qt in the primary (Redline), a qt in the trans (Redline), and 4 qts in the motor-I have a Plus 1 oil pan (good ole dinosaur oil)! Nice round numbers and ya never have to remember how much you need! ;)
Hoist! :coolblue:
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I thought you could fill to the bottom of the inspection cover just so it is ready to run over the edge of it when level?? I really didn't want to have to find something to measure the additional few ounces precisely? Any thoughts here?
Thanks
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No. rule of thumb is fill till it covers the bottom of the clutch basket, you'll need a flash light to do this. If you drained the fluid well, on the jiffy stand. put 38 oz in. close it up and ride
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Thanks....am picking up a wallyworld small measuring cup for the shop today for the extra oil. Switching to all Redline products. Will see how I like them.
212
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Try this:
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=106&pcid=19
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I use a QT and call it a day. You really think there's any difference between 32OZ and 38OZ. Not one that your clutch and chain will notice! ;)
Hoist! :coolblue:
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I use 32 oz. like Hoist said and call it a day, it's been working fine.
Marty
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I use a QT and call it a day. You really think there's any difference between 32OZ and 38OZ. Not one that your clutch and chain will notice! ;)
Hoist! :coolblue:
38 oz
- 32 oz
6 oz
However, if you drained it on the jiffy stand or are starting with a dry primary, it becomes:
45 oz
- 32 oz
13 oz
Now you're nearly a pint low. And yes, at that point it does make a difference.
What's so tough about filling until the oil just touches the bottom of the clutch spring? Now that there isn't an inspection cover anymore, you have to pull the clutch (derby) cover anyway to fill the primary, and the clutch spring is sitting right there. Sit the bike up level, fill until the oil just touches the bottom edge of the spring, and button it all back up. Then it will be right no matter if you managed to drain all the old oil, half the old oil, or some other variation. Before you start the oil change, just make sure you have at least 1.5 quarts of fluid on hand instead of the 1.0 quart of the older models.
I can't believe it takes two pages to tell someone how to fill the primary. As another member is fond of saying, "it ain't rocket science". ;)
Jerry
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32 oz. does fill the bottom edge of the spring !!! or at least it does on my bike :nixweiss:
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32 oz. does fill the bottom edge of the spring !!! or at least it does on my bike :nixweiss:
I don't disagree, if you only drain out 32 ounces then one quart will fill it. However, H-D's own specs call for 45 ounces dry, 38 ounces for a normal change. All I'm saying is that telling everyone that they can just use a quart without actually checking the level is not a good idea. If they happen to be one of those who can get most of the oil to actually drain, one quart is not going to fill it to the proper level. IMHO, it is much better to just tell them to fill it to the bottom edge of the spring with the bike level. Then no matter how much or how little they drained out, when they get done the level will be correct. To me it's no different than telling folks to add 3.0 quarts of oil for an engine oil change, run the engine to fill the system, then use the dipstick to measure and adjust the final oil level. Sure, you could just dump in 4 quarts and call it a day, but if that turns out to be .5 quarts too much you'll just wind up with it blown out on your leg and the side of the bike.
Yes, I realize I'm being anal and probably a little ridiculous, but I'm trying to make a point that when someone asks for the spec for the amount of oil to use, it would be best to stick to what the manual actually says and then perhaps mention that due to variations in the amount that drains, they should verify the correct level before buttoning everything up. If I wanted "close enough for government work", I'd keep my hands clean and just have the dealer change the fluids.
Jerry
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I don't disagree, if you only drain out 32 ounces then one quart will fill it. However, H-D's own specs call for 45 ounces dry, 38 ounces for a normal change. All I'm saying is that telling everyone that they can just use a quart without actually checking the level is not a good idea. If they happen to be one of those who can get most of the oil to actually drain, one quart is not going to fill it to the proper level. IMHO, it is much better to just tell them to fill it to the bottom edge of the spring with the bike level. Then no matter how much or how little they drained out, when they get done the level will be correct. To me it's no different than telling folks to add 3.0 quarts of oil for an engine oil change, run the engine to fill the system, then use the dipstick to measure and adjust the final oil level. Sure, you could just dump in 4 quarts and call it a day, but if that turns out to be .5 quarts too much you'll just wind up with it blown out on your leg and the side of the bike.
Yes, I realize I'm being anal and probably a little ridiculous, but I'm trying to make a point that when someone asks for the spec for the amount of oil to use, it would be best to stick to what the manual actually says and then perhaps mention that due to variations in the amount that drains, they should verify the correct level before buttoning everything up. If I wanted "close enough for government work", I'd keep my hands clean and just have the dealer change the fluids.
Jerry
Yep, you're by the book Jerry. But I told folks what I do. And I drain it when fully vertical and put 1 QT in. Been doing that for YEARS with no issues over oil or primary oil temps at all. Just sayin! You are correct, it ain't rocket science! ;)
And I drain the engine oil and put 4 QTs in (I have a 5-Qt pan) and don't check that either!
Hoist!
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Thanks for all the opinions....but a bit confused when the manual says put it on the jiffy stand , drain it and add back 38 oz. Where is the 45 oz. coming from??? I didn't pull the primary cover (probably should have to put Redline in after using Syn 3??).
212
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Thanks for all the opinions....but a bit confused when the manual says put it on the jiffy stand , drain it and add back 38 oz. Where is the 45 oz. coming from??? I didn't pull the primary cover (probably should have to put Redline in after using Syn 3??).
212
45 oz is when you open the primary and drain it all, thats a max amount. just stick with fill till it touch the bottom of the basket, you'll be fine. another spot where too much is no good
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..."my SERG manual says 38oz, 96's say 32oz."
Strange. The late model Touring 96 inch manuals that I have show 38 oz. also.
Should this spec be another one added to the CVO myths category?
Here's two more that quickly come to mind:
DBW CVO bikes come with larger throttle bodies vs. their 96 inch counterparts....not.
DBW CVO bikes come with larger fuel injectors vs. their 96 inch counterparts....not.
FWIW. Primary Fluid change here also: 32 oz. and go. CVO or 96 incn bike.
Cheers.
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Thanks for the info from all. I ran into a bit of trouble getting the oil filter off , then back on tightly enough with the sensor and oil cooler lines in the way, and my diminished grip strength of the last couple years. So question is: can you take out the sensor that is in the engine block right in front of the oil filter so I can get an end type oil filter wrench on it for removal and tightening? I know only 1/2 to 3/4 turn, but I can't do it by hand anymore.
Thanks,
212
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Thanks for the info from all. I ran into a bit of trouble getting the oil filter off , then back on tightly enough with the sensor and oil cooler lines in the way, and my diminished grip strength of the last couple years. So question is: can you take out the sensor that is in the engine block right in front of the oil filter so I can get an end type oil filter wrench on it for removal and tightening? I know only 1/2 to 3/4 turn, but I can't do it by hand anymore.
Thanks,
212
I wouldn't make a habit of removing the crank position sensor, and you really shouldn't have to if you get the right filter wrench. H-D sells one that is notched out to clear the sensor. Or you could do like I do and buy K&N filters with the 17mm nut welded on the end. Makes loosening or tightening filters a breeze. Correct part number for a Twin Cam is KN-171C for chrome, KN-171B for black.
http://www.knfilters.com/oilfilter.htm
Jerry
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You guys need to listen to GRC vs all the other opinions. Someone, several pages ago asked for how much oil to use in primary, apparently he couldn't read the owners manual so he asked folks he trusted. Then he gets a bunch of responses that are mostly wag's. GRC answered him with the same info that was in his owners manual he couldn't read, which is what he asked for. Someone made the comment "been doing it for years" but how can you use that statement on a question regarding a 09?
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Right or wrong I put (1) qt Redline MTL in the 2010 primary last night at 650 miles. On the side stand, it is at the bottom of the clutch basket. Left it that. 1qt of MTL is a lot better than 38-45 ounces of Syn3 I figured.
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Right or wrong I put (1) qt Redline MTL in the 2010 primary last night at 650 miles. On the side stand, it is at the bottom of the clutch basket. Left it that. 1qt of MTL is a lot better than 38-45 ounces of Syn3 I figured.
HeHe!!! Yep, not Rocket Science folks!!! :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21: ;)
Hoist! :coolblue:
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I know we are talking about stock but if you are using Rivera's clutch they said their plates are bigger than stock so use less fluid than the 38oz so I just use 32.
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I know we are talking about stock but if you are using Rivera's clutch they said their plates are bigger than stock so use less fluid than the 38oz so I just use 32.
Hehe!!! Yep, and the new style Pro Clutch hydro uses ATF. So it's 1qt ATF in Cybil! ;)
Hoist! :coolblue: