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[Hoist!]

Obviously there seems to be some confusion about what chains we are talking about here.  Cam drive chains, or primary drive chains.  Personally I think the MoCo wouldn't change from the old style trouble prone spring loaded cam gear tensioners to the new style hydraulic tensioners without reason.  This type of system has been used for many years in automobiles without problems.  As far as primary tensioners, I have used the spring loaded Hayden M6 for a few years in my "01 Heritage Softail Classic with zero problems.  The mechanic who helped me install it has been a machinist and HD mechanic for over 30 years.  He's installed dozens of these things in both his bikes and customers bikes.  He says he's never experienced a failure.  (I normally do most of my own mechanic work, but I wanted someone who has previous experience with these to make sure the initial tension was correct.  He said some people adjust them too tight or too lose.)  If there haven't been problems, why search for a fix to something that works?

Shortly after I bought my '06 USE I had the local HD shop install the Harley automatic primary chain tensioner.  -Worked like a charm.

Because with all the apparent problems with the new stuff they have in the '07's, the only real solution to fixing things is to rip all the stock HD stuff out and substitute with better parts and designs. Just because we haven't seen a problem yet, doesn't mean there won't be one, they won't hold up over time, or that there isn't a better product avaliable.

Hoist!

[Midnight Rider]

I've had the auto primary tensioner (HD version) on my bike since day one.  19K on the bike with zero problems, other than the time the dumb ass HD tech tried to "adjust" the auto tensioner as if it was a manual adjusting version.  THAT caused a problem, but I fixed it myself.

The chain feels really tight with the auto adjuster, but if installed properly, it's got enough play to allow the chain to do what it needs to do.

[vagabond6542]

Actually, the Hayden M6 tensioner is spring loaded, not hydraulically actuated.  Tom Hayden was the first to come out with an automatic tensioner. The HB-125 hydraulic tensioner is a more recent take-off on the Hayden unit, and now you also have the H-D version which is spring loaded.  The '07 and later bikes (plus '06 Dyna's) have the H-D version as standard equipment.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to remove the stock unit and install the M6 or HB-125; is there something going on with the H-D parts?   And as 2lane noted, I don't think the M6 or HB-125 will fit the new style primary anyway.  It would surprise me to see either manufacturer spend the money to come out with another part number to fit bikes that already have an automatic tensioner. 

Jerry

Yes, I had the Primary chain and adjuster replaced recently. 6171 miles on "07" CUSE2

[Fired00d]

Obviously there seems to be some confusion about what chains we are talking about here.  Cam drive chains, or primary drive chains.  Personally I think the MoCo wouldn't change from the old style trouble prone spring loaded cam gear tensioners to the new style hydraulic tensioners without reason.  This type of system has been used for many years in automobiles without problems.  As far as primary tensioners, I have used the spring loaded Hayden M6 for a few years in my "01 Heritage Softail Classic with zero problems.  The mechanic who helped me install it has been a machinist and HD mechanic for over 30 years.  He's installed dozens of these things in both his bikes and customers bikes.  He says he's never experienced a failure.  (I normally do most of my own mechanic work, but I wanted someone who has previous experience with these to make sure the initial tension was correct.  He said some people adjust them too tight or too lose.)  If there haven't been problems, why search for a fix to something that works?

Shortly after I bought my '06 USE I had the local HD shop install the Harley automatic primary chain tensioner.  -Worked like a charm.

No confusion I was commenting concerning the question about "cam chain tensioners"....

Speaking of which, Can you use the new cam chain tensioners in a 103 motor to replace old tensioners?    Just wondering.  har! spyder

Go with gear drives no doubt about them, the new tensioners that H-D has come out w/haven't stood the test of time yet.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

I believe the reason the MoCo changed from the old style tensioners to the new is because of the failures we've seen. Even though these have been used for years as you state in other applications doesn't mean they (MoCo) will get it right with their version/application. Until there is time and miles under this new system I'll rather go with something/recommend what I know is proven.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[spydglide]

Yes, I had the Primary chain and adjuster replaced recently. 6171 miles on "07" CUSE2

Hey Vagabond, what was the reason for replacing your primary chain?   spyder

[grc]

The description says that it (Hayden M6) is hydraulic.  Is that not true?  How could the manufacturer say it is hydraulic and uses primary oil to make it function as a hydraulic lifter?

I'm not sure where you saw that description, but it definitely isn't for the M6.  The description you quoted is the one for the HB-125, which isn't a Hayden part.  Possibly the catalog your quote came from had them mixed up. 

Jerry

[grc]

Speaking of which, Can you use the new cam chain tensioners in a 103 motor to replace old tensioners?    Just wondering.  har! spyder

spyder,

You can, but you have to replace a bunch of parts.  New cam plate, new cams, new oil pump, new hydraulic tensioner assemblies, roller chain, etc..  Andrews actually markets a kit to make the change (it uses special Andrews cams along with the various H-D parts).
http://www.andrews-products.com/motorcycle/cams/T88_99-2006_Conv_cams.htm
http://www.andrews-products.com/motorcycle/cams/T88_99_Conv_install_Kit.htm

Jerry

[spydglide]

spyder,

You can, but you have to replace a bunch of parts.  New cam plate, new cams, new oil pump, new hydraulic tensioner assemblies, roller chain, etc..  Andrews actually markets a kit to make the change (it uses special Andrews cams along with the various H-D parts).
http://www.andrews-products.com/motorcycle/cams/T88_99-2006_Conv_cams.htm
http://www.andrews-products.com/motorcycle/cams/T88_99_Conv_install_Kit.htm

Jerry

Hey Jerry, thanks a bunch for the info.......do you know if Andrews makes a cam specifically for the 103 that came in the SEEG's?  Didn't see one listed in the info you referenced... ....thanks, spyder

[vagabond6542]

Hey Vagabond, what was the reason for replacing your primary chain?   spyder

At the 5k check up, the tensioner was too tight by a tooth.  There was a loud Hum coming from the Primary area when found.
When the engine "smoked" and was put into the shop for diagnosis at 6171 miles, the bottom end noises were the primary chain.  So the SM and SOAR seem to agree. I had just gotten the CUSE2 back on Sept 22, I can't tell you if it was really fixed yet. Only put 37 miles on the bike.
FYI not related. Get the 09 03 PRD Torque Cal. It makes a difference on the engine.

[spydglide]

At the 5k check up, the tensioner was too tight by a tooth.  There was a loud Hum coming from the Primary area when found.
When the engine "smoked" and was put into the shop for diagnosis at 6171 miles, the bottom end noises were the primary chain.  So the SM and SOAR seem to agree. I had just gotten the CUSE2 back on Sept 22, I can't tell you if it was really fixed yet. Only put 37 miles on the bike.
FYI not related. Get the 09 03 PRD Torque Cal. It makes a difference on the engine.

Waz zat? 

[vagabond6542]

Waz zat? 

If you have a 07 CUSE2 the ecm can be upgraded with the Torque Cal.

[UglyJohn]

Thanks for all the info. I haven't had any problems so far with the stock HD tensioners, although I hear it keeps the chain too tight. I don't know this first hand though.

I will try it on my 110" RevTech w/new 6-speed on my FXWG overhaul.

It seems that you can more precisely control chain tension hydraulicly than you can with springs, ala the new cam chain tensioners.

Ugly John, would you mind checking with them out there about plans for the '07's? Thanks.

Hoist!

I'll check with Roger and get any future plans for the new '07's. 
Ugly John

[Texas 103]

Howie;
i have installed several of these, they have been araound for quite a while. They are in my opinion the best one out there. Not sure if they will work in the 07 an up primary's as they have a different setup (hydro) than previous years.

Just Put one on MY'06 Haze especially after I talked to HD dude about  why he won't put the Harley one on any more. Shifts like butter,works great,well engineered.   Happy Camper>>>> Greg

[skreminegul07]

I'm not sure where you saw that description, but it definitely isn't for the M6.  The description you quoted is the one for the HB-125, which isn't a Hayden part.  Possibly the catalog your quote came from had them mixed up. 

Jerry

You are correct.  THe JP catalog is where I got that description.

[Eqcons]

Check this out! Anyone ever see this or use it before? It seems like a great idea. If the hydraulic cam chain tensioners work wonders, wouldn't these do the same for the primary chain? I'm liking the idea and am thinking of trying it. Anyone have any experience with it?


From the CCI Catalog, P. 12.24, P/N 60119 http://download.customchrome.com/2007pdfs/12_cc07.pdf
H-B 125 Hydraulic Automatic Primary Chain
Tensioner by Oregon Hot Bike
Designed to withstand the punishment that 100+ cubic inch engines
deliver to the primary drive. Unlike the standard chain tensioner that
works off of a spring pressure, this unit operates off of primary fluid
and works similar to the hydraulic lifter in an engine. It is completely
self-contained. Once installed, there is no need to adjust the primary
chain again.
• Reduces vibration
• Reduces chain wear
• Reduces chain rebound
• Designed for high-horsepower engines
• Smoother shifting
• Prevents chain from scoring inner parts of primary (a main cause of
primary fluid contamination)

60119 Fits Big Twins with wet primary

Hoist!

Yup, I had one on my 03 FLHTCUI, Howie.  Still going strong with the current owner, seems to work fine and an easy fit.

Jim