Topic: anyone have a clutch issue? (Read 8257 times)

bbowler · « **on:** October 06, 2009, 10:32:04 PM »

I just got my cvo sg 2010 and i do love it, however I just had them take it to the shop because it was very tight in down shifting from 3-2, 2-1. Way beyond being "new" tight. I also with the clutch pulled all the way in had the bike creep on me and no matter what it kept pilling till I killed it, neutral was almost impossible to get into unless i was rolling. I figure there might be air in the hydraulic clutch line or resevoir, who knows. Anyone else have any clutch issues?

sportygordy · « **Reply #1 on:** October 06, 2009, 11:29:05 PM »

Quote from: bbowler on October 06, 2009, 10:32:04 PM

I just got my cvo sg 2010 and i do love it, however I just had them take it to the shop because it was very tight in down shifting from 3-2, 2-1. Way beyond being "new" tight. I also with the clutch pulled all the way in had the bike creep on me and no matter what it kept pilling till I killed it, neutral was almost impossible to get into unless i was rolling. I figure there might be air in the hydraulic clutch line or resevoir, who knows. Anyone else have any clutch issues?

You needs some clutch adjustments. How much gap do you have between the back clutch level handle and clutch level housing when not engaged.

hondo · « **Reply #2 on:** October 07, 2009, 01:19:41 AM »

Yes from what I see this is a very common problem on these bikes, my cvosg did the same thing and I also dropped a line on this forum, bleed the clutch which made things work better could actualy find N on about 3 tries, Then with feedback from the great minds on this forum I was convinced into changing the trans fluid to Spectro vtwin trans 75-140 and let me tell you,
what a difference, much easier shifting and a lot quieter. (since then I also changed the crankcase to Royal Purple syn 20-50 another big improvment)
You will find that as you put some miles on your new bike most of the rattles and clunks etc seem to work themselves out, I have 900 miles now and every time I ride, it seems more enjoyable. Maybe the MoCo should break these in for us! it would settle a few nerves...
Oh ya, I had to have my battery changed under warr already, so don't be surprised!

mjb765 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 07, 2009, 06:49:17 AM »

Had the same issues and changed to Redline Shockproof in the trans and Redline vtwin primary fluid and the problems went away!!! Good Stuff

grc · « **Reply #4 on:** October 07, 2009, 08:50:31 AM »

If the clutch is dragging enough to affect shifting and force you to kill the engine when stopping in gear, that's not going to be fixed by a change of trans fluid. You're on the right track with the air in the line comment, that's the first thing to check and it has been a fairly common issue since H-D started installing hydraulic clutches. There have also been instances of defective actuators (the part under the trans side cover) that wouldn't provide full travel of the clutch release rod, but those are relatively rare. If a thorough bleeding of the system doesn't help, the dealer needs to measure the travel of the release rod against the specification.

Jerry

hd-dude · « **Reply #5 on:** October 07, 2009, 10:03:07 AM »

Ditto what Jerry said

mjb765 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 07, 2009, 10:40:01 AM »

Quote from: grc on October 07, 2009, 08:50:31 AM

If the clutch is dragging enough to affect shifting and force you to kill the engine when stopping in gear, that's not going to be fixed by a change of trans fluid. You're on the right track with the air in the line comment, that's the first thing to check and it has been a fairly common issue since H-D started installing hydraulic clutches. There have also been instances of defective actuators (the part under the trans side cover) that wouldn't provide full travel of the clutch release rod, but those are relatively rare. If a thorough bleeding of the system doesn't help, the dealer needs to measure the travel of the release rod against the specification.

Jerry

Just mentioning what had happend to me. If he has extreme symptoms, then I agree, a fluid change will not fix it. With mine the clutch was dragging a bit and it was tough to find neutral and the switch in fluids took care of that.

Ultra2010 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 07, 2009, 12:10:35 PM »

My new (300 miles) CUSE is also VERY hard to hit neutral. See my post "Transmission Whine in 1st Gear" in this section. Also she "clunks" like I've never seen or heard before when going into first from neutral. Dealer pulling the transmission next Wednesday......

grc · « **Reply #8 on:** October 07, 2009, 02:35:32 PM »

Quote from: Ultra2010 on October 07, 2009, 12:10:35 PM

My new (300 miles) CUSE is also VERY hard to hit neutral. See my post "Transmission Whine in 1st Gear" in this section. Also she "clunks" like I've never seen or heard before when going into first from neutral. Dealer pulling the transmission next Wednesday......

Try this and see if your neutral to first clunk gets better. Pull in the clutch fully, quickly "blip" the throttle to 2000-2500 and immediately let it return to idle, wait at least 5 seconds with the clutch still held in and then try to engage first gear. This will eliminate the clunk on most bikes I've tried it on, and it's a good indication of how much the Harley clutch drags. When you hold the clutch lever in and quickly rev the engine, it helps break the clutch plates loose. The input shaft stops spinning (the 5 seconds is to let the shaft and gears slow down or come to a stop), and now there is no clunk. In fact, with the gears sitting still you might find it hard to engage first until you start to release the clutch.

Of course, the above "solution" isn't really a solution, it just helps show where the problem is really coming from. I use that technique on the first shift into first on a cold start, but once the bike is warmed up it isn't necessary. Until your clutch plates get worn in a bit, you may find the clunk will even be there when warmed up. Assuming no air in the system or other problem with the hydraulics, you should see improved shifting as the clutch plates wear in.

Jerry

bbowler · « **Reply #9 on:** October 07, 2009, 08:50:56 PM »

Thanks all. I called the dealer and they said first thing was the clutch spring needed to be replaced. Once they fix that he will test it and see if all is well or if it is something more serious. I'll keep ya posted.

motor1 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 08, 2009, 11:33:27 PM »

Logged on tonight to start a thread regarding THE EXACT SAME CLUTCH ISSUE, actuator was changed, due to a leak, and that is when my troubles began. It is so bad I have to shut bike off at traffic lights to stop it from walking thru the intersection. It has been bleed 5 times by the dealer, and once by an independant shop; it will be ok for a day or two and presto the problem returns.

JDOFLHRIDER · « **Reply #11 on:** October 09, 2009, 08:45:07 AM »

Well on my 07 the clutch was slipping ,and when I looked for a better one Harleys best wasn't rated for the tq our bikes make after a few improvements.My engine guy that races said he has used energy one ,I installed theirs with a heavy spring and loved that clutch.The tech at energy one said to use type f,b+m trickshift,or primary oils except syn3 they have had problems for the syn3. http://energyoneclutches.com/ good luck jdo

Hoist! · « **Reply #12 on:** October 09, 2009, 08:59:26 AM »

This is what I use now after the stock one wore out. The Rivera Pro Clutch is now made for hydraulic actuator on '07's and up. Rivera says to use ATF in the primary with this clutch.

Hoist!

guppytrash · « **Reply #13 on:** October 09, 2009, 10:47:02 AM »

Check the fluid level in your clutch reservoir. My buddy had the same problem with his 09 USE4, clutch would not release and bike would creep forward.
In his case there was not enough fluid to fully disengage the clutch.

Rooster · « **Reply #14 on:** October 09, 2009, 10:59:14 AM »

I used the Rivera clutch in mine with the Jim's 131. It shifts smoother than stock and feels better. The folks at Rivera say to use ATF and less than factory because their plates are bigger and they also said running synthetic with thier clutch may slip at 90 and above.

Now if I could just get the comp assembly and bearings to last maybe I could keep the bike out of the shop.

grc · « **Reply #15 on:** October 09, 2009, 05:02:50 PM »

Quote from: motor1 on October 08, 2009, 11:33:27 PM

Logged on tonight to start a thread regarding THE EXACT SAME CLUTCH ISSUE, actuator was changed, due to a leak, and that is when my troubles began. It is so bad I have to shut bike off at traffic lights to stop it from walking thru the intersection. It has been bleed 5 times by the dealer, and once by an independant shop; it will be ok for a day or two and presto the problem returns.

Until someone finds and fixes the leak, the problem will continue to return. It shouldn't be that tough, there are only 3 basic components to verify: master cylinder, lines and fittings, slave cylinder (actuator). If air is repeatedly getting into the system, there has to be a leak. Best bet, go back to where the problem started (actuator).

Jerry

bbowler · « **Reply #16 on:** October 10, 2009, 12:12:16 PM »

The dealer called the harley service techs to see if there were more issues. They are replacing the spring and re-filled and bled the resevoir. Lets hope this does it, riding it once in 3 weeks is killing me.

bbowler · « **Reply #17 on:** October 14, 2009, 10:30:29 PM »

Well, I am getting the bike back tomorrow. The problem as told to me by the mech and to him by the MoCo is that they are thinking that the springs in the 2010 cvos tend to be too stiff and too strong for the clutch to fully disengage. He replaced it with a spring that is 1 step down and says the problem is solved now. If I get any other issues with it i'll give them a bit of hell.

WFP · « **Reply #18 on:** October 15, 2009, 06:45:17 AM »

Noticed this happening on my new SESG last night...I am at about 800 miles.

Creeping when I returned to the garage
Stalled at a light upon take-off

It has been "close" since delivery, with the tranny engaging right as the clutch lever lifts away from the grip but now it has gotten worse. It was a cold ride to dinner last night, in the low to mid 40's and maybe that affected the feel for me.

Will have it worked on as part of the 1K service.

/Bill

grc · « **Reply #19 on:** October 15, 2009, 04:36:29 PM »

Quote from: bbowler on October 14, 2009, 10:30:29 PM

Well, I am getting the bike back tomorrow. The problem as told to me by the mech and to him by the MoCo is that they are thinking that the springs in the 2010 cvos tend to be too stiff and too strong for the clutch to fully disengage. He replaced it with a spring that is 1 step down and says the problem is solved now. If I get any other issues with it i'll give them a bit of hell.

This explanation doesn't make sense to me. Since hydraulic fluid doesn't compress, if the clutch lever is pulled to the grip and there is no air in the system, the release rod should travel the normal amount no matter if there is a light spring or a heavy spring. If the spring was "too stiff", you would feel extra effort to pull the lever but the amount of travel should remain the same.

If anyone has a parts manual for the 2010 CVO it would be interesting to see what part number they are using for the clutch spring, and to also see if it is different from previous year CVO's. The SE catalog doesn't list a new 2010 only SE spring. IF the 2010 spring is different (and stiffer) than the previous spring, I would question why all the other 2010 CVO's don't have this same problem.

I would want to know a lot more before I would accept having a dealer install a lower rated clutch spring. The CVO's get a higher rated spring for a good reason, to reduce slippage and premature wear due to the higher torque of the CVO engine.

Jerry

sadunbar · « **Reply #20 on:** October 15, 2009, 06:32:46 PM »

Quote from: grc on October 15, 2009, 04:36:29 PM

This explanation doesn't make sense to me. Since hydraulic fluid doesn't compress, if the clutch lever is pulled to the grip and there is no air in the system, the release rod should travel the normal amount no matter if there is a light spring or a heavy spring. If the spring was "too stiff", you would feel extra effort to pull the lever but the amount of travel should remain the same.

If anyone has a parts manual for the 2010 CVO it would be interesting to see what part number they are using for the clutch spring, and to also see if it is different from previous year CVO's. The SE catalog doesn't list a new 2010 only SE spring. IF the 2010 spring is different (and stiffer) than the previous spring, I would question why all the other 2010 CVO's don't have this same problem.

I would want to know a lot more before I would accept having a dealer install a lower rated clutch spring. The CVO's get a higher rated spring for a good reason, to reduce slippage and premature wear due to the higher torque of the CVO engine.

Jerry

Of course you are right, Jerry. The explanation makes no sense what-so-ever... The spring stiffness has no effect on the travel distance.... Unless it is magic hydraulic fluid - or magic clutch springs....

bbowler · « **Reply #21 on:** October 16, 2009, 12:12:01 AM »

well, i thought of all that myself. I will put it through the paces and if I get any slippage anytime at all i'll be spouting off again. I dont understand it all but the dealer has only done right by me until now so I'll give the benefit of the doubt for now.

h82lose · « **Reply #22 on:** October 16, 2009, 09:44:44 AM »

had same problem with green 05 seeg and took to independent shop and was told they had to level and raise bars. told them they were NUTS,but guess what,no more clutch issues. go figure that out. shop is owned and operated by ex HD service manager. he told me when HARLEY told him that 4 years ago that he laughed and told them BS,but it worked so go figure.

bbowler · « **Reply #23 on:** October 17, 2009, 12:59:12 PM »

Well I got it back and so far no issues. It is noticibly a softer grab that the original spring but i guess i can get okay with that as long as no slippage. I will watch very close and if i feel anything i'll be on them again to better it.

tattoo · « **Reply #24 on:** October 19, 2009, 07:00:51 AM »

we have had a few problems with the "creeping" and every time we ended up replacing the Slave cylinder. so far it cured the problems , but Im sure now that I posted this they will all be back this week with the same problem.

bbowler · « **Reply #25 on:** October 19, 2009, 09:10:47 PM »

I rode it another 200 miles and so far i say its good. But for sure you better have the clutch stck to your grip all the way in because if its a 1/16 of an inch out it will start to grab. I kinda liked the slight bit of play in the cable clutches better.

hd-dude · « **Reply #26 on:** October 20, 2009, 09:48:06 PM »

The issue here is air in the hydraulic clutch system. Bleed it properly and the issues will be resolved unless there is an issue with the master or slave cylinder, which is unlikely.

WFP · « **Reply #27 on:** October 21, 2009, 06:44:14 AM »

Quote from: hd-dude on October 20, 2009, 09:48:06 PM

The issue here is air in the hydraulic clutch system. Bleed it properly and the issues will be resolved unless there is an issue with the master or slave cylinder, which is unlikely.

Thanks Jim, I Bled mine at the actuator and it did improve the issue and all creep stopped. I have to admit, my 1/4" wrench could not turn the valve so I had to use a socket after removing the hose...and then loosened it too far and it started to release fluid before I was ready. Doh!

/Bill

Author Topic: anyone have a clutch issue? (Read 8257 times)

Ultra2010