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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: strokerjlk on November 06, 2011, 11:11:52 PM
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Tore my 120 r down to install a diff. set of cams.
this what I found @ 15,000 miles.these are the
SE lifters that come stock in the 120 r crate motor.
I ran these with the stock +.030 SE pushrods.
(http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr327/strokerjlk/120R%20pics/SE20Lifters.jpg)
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Can you give us some more details....
They don't look seized yet but the wear on the cam looks like they aren't rolling to good.
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Tore my 120 r down to install a diff. set of cams.
this what I found @ 15,000 miles.these are the
SE lifters that come stock in the 120 r crate motor.
I ran these with the stock +.030 SE pushrods.
(http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr327/strokerjlk/120R%20pics/SE20Lifters.jpg)
Not related to your problem but I'm thinking about getting a 120R. Why are you changing the cams. Power or drivability?
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Jim,
What is the measured seat pressure, and nose pressure on those springs, with that cam?
Scott
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Jim,
What is the measured seat pressure, and nose pressure on those springs, with that cam?
Scott
200 lbs spring pressure.
to be honest I dont remember the nose pressure
Not related to your problem but I'm thinking about getting a 120R. Why are you changing the cams. Power or drivability?
I am ate up. :nixweiss: just wanted to try them before winter hits. everyone keeps talking about how they would do.?
so i had to see. LOL
Can you give us some more details....They don't look seized yet but the wear on the cam looks like they aren't rolling to good
actually the cams are not hurt. looks like the case harding flaked off the lifter rollers.
there was no sign ..i just happen to open it up.
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I am ate up. :nixweiss: just wanted to try them before winter hits. everyone keeps talking about how they would do.?
so i had to see. LOL
Did the TR-662-2's calling out from the shelf finally get to you?
JW
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at 12,000. miles. Had to do a complete engine overhaul.
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Certainly there are enough cases of issues with these lifters to just change them out preemptively before commissioning a 120r. I would use Wood lifters. I typically run 175# seat with those heads and at .65 they run about 415#
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Did the TR-662-2's calling out from the shelf finally get to you?
JW
yes sir they did. :huepfenlol2:
I got my main desktop down so I dont have the sheets and pics all down loaded.
basically moved everything left of 4000 rpms. 8-10 hp/tq at WOT.
throttle response feels better.
Scott/Don
I cant remember that great place I put my paper work (so I wouldn't forget where it was at)
the SE springs are advertised @ 200 in the MVA heads. I think Larry said that was a little heavy rating and they are a little lighter than that.
I also think he said the 500 nose at max lift was a little lower than advertised.don't hold me too it as I am going off memory .
I had my doubts about these lifters, but thought they would surely make a season.
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Well 200-500 would be too high but nonetheless guys with stock 110s and B lifters are loosing lifters with relatively low miles and 175# seat SE255 cams.
No high ground to be found really for the lifters, SE or stock HD, but no need to run the pressure that high either as it just exaggerates the matter.
I have done some of these heads with the Wood 188# springs de-rated to 175# with Ti retainers and Wood lifters, corrected geometry, Baisley Roller rockers, coupled to a jackhammer of cams the TW408 and they have run rather quiet and have not broken lifters , one has in excess of 15K miles. Time will tell.
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at 12,000. miles. Had to do a complete engine overhaul.
Did an extended warranty repair this summer, with the EXACT picture, though it was a 110"er.
His local dealer alerted him, that he was hearing engine noise, because the fairing was pulling the noises up to him. :D
Scott
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Well 200-500 would be too high but nonetheless guys with stock 110s and B lifters are loosing lifters with relatively low miles and 175# seat SE255 cams.
No high ground to be found really for the lifters, SE or stock HD, but no need to run the pressure that high either as it just exaggerates the matter.
I have done some of these heads with the Wood 188# springs de-rated to 175# with Ti retainers and Wood lifters, corrected geometry, Baisley Roller rockers, coupled to a jackhammer of cams the TW408 and they have run rather quiet and have not broken lifters , one has in excess of 15K miles. Time will tell.
FYI, I have 20k miles on my 110 with the Woods 408 cams, Woods springs, Hillside headwork and SE roller rockers. I definitely wouldn't call the setup "quiet" but it has performed admirably and so far without incident (knock on "wood"!)
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cams tested at rockwell 62
lifters at 58
my bad for mentioning case hardening. these rollers are not CASE hardened.
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Now comes the $64,000.00 question?
What oil, Jim?
Scott
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Jim
I cannot see the side of the lifter are they stock lifters or the SE version lifters? The last 120R we just got in had some new items in it. Like the lifters, coated crank race, to mention a few.
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Along with what oil, what oil pressure at warm idle speed and what type of oil cooler. Not saying the lifter was not bad but I've seen the same thing happen to lifters and it was due to poor oiling. HD engines have low enough oil pressure at idle to start with and it doesn't take much to send them over the edge on a performance build. I like to raise the pressure when doing any performance type build.
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Now comes the $64,000.00 question?
What oil, Jim?
Scott
brad penn for the first 10,000. miles
then mobil 1 syn for 3000,
then valvoline for maybe 500 miles.
Then Rev/tech for the last couple thousand.
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Only one that would make me raise my eyebrow, would be the CCI stuff, but that's just me.
Almost looks like a lube issue, in that raw friction environment, in spite of the roller, being a roller, as the only thing between the lobe and lifter wheel, is oil. Very odd.
Scott
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Brinelling
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There was another 120r lifter issue.
500 miles on a untouched crate motor,started showing the same wear as mine had at 15,000.
so I guess that rules out a few theorys :nixweiss:
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What could be causing that?
Hardening process from the Moco? ???
Scott
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What could be causing that?
Hardening process from the Moco? ???
Scott
whoever makes Jims lifters for them? same lifter from what I can tell?
this is out of wurk truk's new 120r 500 miles.
(http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr327/strokerjlk/120R%20pics/DPP_2849.jpg)
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Cam(s) look the same?
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I don't think the cams are hurt.he is only talking about swapping
lifters,springs and pushrods
as bad a my cams looked .......a little orange scotch brite,and they look brand new.
I think with the cams being harder than the lifter rollers,the cams win out.LOL
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Keep this thread alive guys, I am thinking of waking up my 2010 FLHXSE next winter and am trying to decide if I want to rebuild the 110 or bite the bullet and upgrade to the 120R.
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Doing my annual cam chest inspection on my 120r today, along with a few other winter modification projects. The 120r has about 10K on it. Top end is stock. Cams are T Man 662-1. Pushrods are SE tapered. I make it a habit on all my twin cam motors to replace the lifters at 10K, no matter what....
That being said, these are the lifters I pulled today... They look good. Needle bearings feel good. Cams look like new... Slight wear signs on the outside diameter of the lifters on the lower land, but it is not measurable wear. All in all, I'm very pleased with the condition of everything...
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Front Cylinder
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Rear Cylinder
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.
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.
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What oil you using Scott?
SBB
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What oil you using Scott?
SBB
Red Line 20W60HD Motorcycle Oil
I get it here....
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/RedLineMotorcycleOil20W60HD/Motorcycle_Oils
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Looks like that oil has been hot. ???
We've never witnessed that color to the lifter wheel.
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You're seeing assembly lube on them... I'll store them away lubed... There is no heat discoloration.
I'm running a Jagg 10 row cooler... On a hot day, it runs 210 oil temp.
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That explains that.