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Author Topic: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...  (Read 15290 times)

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DesertHOG

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2018, 09:34:22 AM »

Makes me wonder what the Tech was thinking. Is he disgruntled? Rushed? Under the gun for efficiency numbers?

I gave them plenty of time. They supposedly put the best technician on the job. I think one possible issue is that they did have him work other jobs while doing my upgrade. As I got this bundled with my deal I gave the shop a lot of latitude on the delivery date. Perhaps the back and forth between different jobs resulted in some drop in quality. (Hmm... where did I leave off, did I already put the heavy springs in?).

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J.D.

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2018, 09:42:13 AM »

Today's Harley shops run like any modern repair shop.  Get these jobs done as fast and cheap as possible.  Around here, the really experienced guys have left the dealerships (I suspect replaced by cheaper labor).  Service managers used to be the older top techs but are now mostly just salesmen.  I sympathize with anyone in a position where they have to go through the dealer for repair/warranty work.
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DesertHOG

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2018, 09:59:57 AM »

Today's Harley shops run like any modern repair shop.  Get these jobs done as fast and cheap as possible.  Around here, the really experienced guys have left the dealerships (I suspect replaced by cheaper labor).  Service managers used to be the older top techs but are now mostly just salesmen.  I sympathize with anyone in a position where they have to go through the dealer for repair/warranty work.

A double-edged sword... when chit breaks, "Did you have all your service performed by an HD certified technician?"
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grc

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2018, 10:23:52 AM »

A double-edged sword... when chit breaks, "Did you have all your service performed by an HD certified technician?"

I've met and talked to many "H-D Certified Technicians" over the years, and I can assure you that description in no way shape or form can be assumed to mean a fully qualified and trained individual.  There used to be some very good techs in the dealerships around here, back before Harley forced out the old bike enthusiast dealers and replaced them with used car dealers and marketing types.  Now the really good ones are either retired or working for themselves.  The problem is finding them easily, most don't seem to advertise.

Jerry
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Jerry - 2005 Cherry SEEG  -  Member # 1155

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DesertHOG

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2018, 10:29:11 AM »

I've met and talked to many "H-D Certified Technicians" over the years, and I can assure you that description in no way shape or form can be assumed to mean a fully qualified and trained individual.  There used to be some very good techs in the dealerships around here, back before Harley forced out the old bike enthusiast dealers and replaced them with used car dealers and marketing types.  Now the really good ones are either retired or working for themselves.  The problem is finding them easily, most don't seem to advertise.

Jerry

How do you advertise how good you are? That's marketing aka propaganda. The only way really is through qualified independent reviews. Many online businesses formed around that model. TripAdvisor, Yelp, Angie's List, etc... You don't see many reviews for independent motorcycle shops and so you either roll the dice or end up with a dealership "HD Certified Technician". So, as painful as it might be, you get your warranty and/or extended warranty and let the HD shop do the work unless you KNOW someone better.

DH
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J.D.

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2018, 10:33:07 AM »

Yup, exactly why I started doing my own work years ago.  I could write a book on bad dealer experiences LOL.
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DesertHOG

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2018, 10:45:50 AM »

Yup, exactly why I started doing my own work years ago.  I could write a book on bad dealer experiences LOL.

Much more talented than me if you're doing engine repair and overhauls. That's beyond my depth and level of comfort. I check my oil changes 3x to make sure I didn't mess something up.
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J.D.

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2018, 11:43:47 AM »

You learn as you go, but thanks to shop manuals and online resources most jobs are ultimately not terribly difficult if you have the correct specially tools.  At $100/hr labor rate at most dealers, one can buy a whole bunch of cool tools.
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ultrafxr

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2018, 12:46:29 PM »

I gave them plenty of time. They supposedly put the best technician on the job. I think one possible issue is that they did have him work other jobs while doing my upgrade. As I got this bundled with my deal I gave the shop a lot of latitude on the delivery date. Perhaps the back and forth between different jobs resulted in some drop in quality. (Hmm... where did I leave off, did I already put the heavy springs in?).
Spot on Simon.  I know I've been a victim of this on more than one occasion.  Dread having to take my bike in for anything but the most simple repair . . . one that I can readily tell if it was done properly.
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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2018, 02:43:57 PM »

I gave them plenty of time. They supposedly put the best technician on the job. I think one possible issue is that they did have him work other jobs while doing my upgrade. As I got this bundled with my deal I gave the shop a lot of latitude on the delivery date. Perhaps the back and forth between different jobs resulted in some drop in quality. (Hmm... where did I leave off, did I already put the heavy springs in?).

Spot on Simon.  I know I've been a victim of this on more than one occasion.  Dread having to take my bike in for anything but the most simple repair . . . one that I can readily tell if it was done properly.

I think that's being too generous.  Many of us worked in shop environments in our lives.  Of some kind.  I grew up in a gas station then a garage then a garage/machine shop from the time I was 11 until 24.  Still play in such places to this day.

Even as a kid, with all the distractions of being a teen aged boy (other guys, girls that thought they could flirt for freebies, girls, girls, ballgame on the radio, whatever) I never didn't make sure I knew where I was at when I came back to a task.  Might find lost track of where something was while doing that inventory.  Still do that today.  More than once have bought a replacement of something when I knew it "had to be here somewhere."  The job didn't move forward without the mental and physical inventory though. 

This doesn't take long.  A good review is not a tens of minutes of proposition.  A tech working in a $60-$80-$100 hour shop should be working in a place where such basic care and caution is the expectation.  He should be working in a shop where when the expectation is not met he quickly discovers it was the requirement.
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Trapperdog

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2018, 07:48:55 PM »

It happens on the manufacturing level as well. I bought my first new HD at 17, an AMF 1000 XLCH. It vibrated excessively and used oil but HD kept saying that was normal so I disassembled it myself and found all four wrist pin clips missing and four large scores on each cylinder wall. HD denied warranty as I had done the disassembly. Good ole AMF days.
Bored and stroked it and it ran like a banshee but was a bear to kickstart.
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DesertHOG

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2018, 07:02:57 PM »

 I stopped by the Harley dealer today to see how my repair was going. Turns out they are still waiting on some parts. So I got to talking with the technician working on my bike. And he shows me the pistons, or a piston and the damage to the piston. And the damage is just as bad on the cylinder.

So now it becomes very clear as to why they are completely re-installing the 114 stage III kit.
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grc

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2018, 07:40:24 PM »

I stopped by the Harley dealer today to see how my repair was going. Turns out they are still waiting on some parts. So I got to talking with the technician working on my bike. And he shows me the pistons, or a piston and the damage to the piston. And the damage is just as bad on the cylinder.

So now it becomes very clear as to why they are completely re-installing the 114 stage III kit.

OK, so here's the important question.  Do they know what caused that damage, or are they just going to replace the pistons and jugs and hope for the best? 

Jerry
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Jerry - 2005 Cherry SEEG  -  Member # 1155

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DesertHOG

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2018, 09:06:43 PM »

OK, so here's the important question.  Do they know what caused that damage, or are they just going to replace the pistons and jugs and hope for the best? 

Jerry

Latter.

They had questions about the break-in and they suspect the rings didn’t seat properly. I am no expert but can rings have same seating problem at the same time. I still suspect an assembly issue but , again, I’m a novice. 
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grc

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Re: ...and so it starts. Knock, knock, knock ...
« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2018, 09:39:29 PM »


If I remember correctly they found extensive damage in the cam chest first, now severe damage to the pistons and cylinders.  Have they bothered to look at the heads,rockers, and valves?  I'm wondering if the entire engine either suffered a lubrication failure, or large amounts of trash circulated throughout the engine.  And the bottom end needs to be inspected as well, since all that metal from the pistons and jugs went straight down into the crank. 

JMHO - Jerry
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H-D and me  -  a classic love / hate relationship.  Current score:  love 40, hate 50, bewildered 10.
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