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Author Topic: Traction Dynamics?  (Read 13653 times)

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Twolanerider

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Re: Traction Dynamics?
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2007, 05:20:33 PM »

Decisions, temptations, decisions.  Hopefully a good first hand "feel" this Sunday.  Keep your fingers crossed and pray to the weather gods.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Traction Dynamics?
« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2007, 11:56:27 PM »

The buddy's Road King got worked on today.  He lived closer to the stretches of road I wanted to try it out on so carried some tools over there.  In so doing grabbed tools and forgot the camera.  So no pics of what little you can see of the differences from the outside.

First observations is that the adjustability can make a real difference.  At least it could on the Road King or other bikes where it would be relatively readily accessible.  On the Glides you're likely going to get it where you like it, or at least where it seems ok, and leave it there.  Won't be worth chasing if you're satisfied it feels good.

Simple enough installation.  Just change the forks.  So nothing special to report there.  They'll come to you ready for installation.  No work on the units necessary once they come back from the company.  This only leaves the important part.....

Stop and go/city riding.  Here was paying more attention to how it lifted on acceleration and, more importantly, how it felt on hard braking.  Comparison has to be to the red bike with it's heavy SE fork oil as that's the feel I'm currently used to.

The red bike went from bottoming out under hard braking to being firm and solid with the change to the heavy oil.  It was a very necessary change.  It has, however, very little "give" to it.  I tend to prefer the firm feel so never really cared.  The difference here is that it is still as firm as you wish to make it but it is no longer as abrupt.  Hitting as speed bump a little too quickly, or a pot hole, for examples, won't feel as jarring.  It's honestly not a hugely important improvement (unless you regularly hit a lot of stuff), but it is an improvement nonetheless.

There was a short-ish couple miles stretch of decent twisties not far from where we worked.  I was so used to the red bike anymore that I automatically accustomed to how it "feels" on such things.  It doesn't surprise me so it doesn't worry me.  Again, the heavier fork oil made it "better" in such environments though it was still obviously always a big bike whose primary mission was an environment slightly straighter.  It would handle it ok, enough to carve floorboard brackets at will on those rare days I might be so inclined.  But it's obviously not a sport bike.

A pass through this stretch of road with the Road King before the work also gave me a bit of before and after comparison with it.  It didn't feel much different than the red bike.  The difference before and after was not quite what I might described as "dramatic" but it was definite.  And it was an improvement.  Staging in to a turn is better.  This is the biggest area of improvement actually.  There was a bit of wallowing in the red bike and the Road King that I was so used to I really didn't realize it was there anymore.  It happens at that point of being off power entering the curve and stays with you until geometry grabs the bike further through the turn and pushes down on it a bit.  That wallowing effect was there, mildly, in the Road King to begin with.  It was gone afterwards.

I did not push the bike terribly hard.  There is still ice and snow at the edges of the road.  Ice, debris and gravel mess from graders and traffic protruding beyond the edge on to the surface.  And no shoulders.  The road was clear so it was ok to play a bit.  But I wasn't going to screw with anything that might seem me slip a wheel out to the edge of the road.  So while the Road King was ridden to the point of just barely touching a board bracket a couple times that was all.  Can't say how the entry in to turns or other radii might be different if one were riding it more aggressively.  I also really felt no difference at all from that point in a turn when one would start to accelerate again and drive on through it.  That all felt the same.

The last comparison the Road King was put through was on an old messed up stretch of road that is almost washboarded.  It has the visual effect of black top laid over some oversized cattle guard that had slowly deflated between the rails over time.  Might also think of it as uber rain strips that happen to across the road rather than longitudinally.

It lasts about an 1/8 of a mile on a stretch of a road that is actually a drive back to a farm house rather than a public road.  At least I guess that's what it is as the old house is the only thing at the end of the road about two miles back there.  If you hit these bumps unexpectedly at too high a speed they can ruin your whole day.

The Road King could be ridden over this and still be controlled without shaking your hands and arms apart of off the grips up to just less than 25 mph.  That was it.  At that point the bike was ready to hop out from underneath you in any particular direction.

After the work was done it could be ridden over the same stretch at about 35 and the front end was still manageable.  Where before really both ends were getting away from you now obviously the back end was the weak link.

So, all tolled, the bike was more comfortable and better handling.  The harder you ride it the more dramatic will be the difference.  There is a difference that anyone should be able to feel in just about any riding type though (with the exception of cruise locked on, feet up on the super slab).  In town it's better, two lanes playing it's better, rougher road it's much better. 

I've been on a couple of touring bikes that had emulators installed.  They were better than stock, not quite as good as this, but probably a little more than half way there.  The company's cost for this job isn't just a few bucks.  So hopefully this little comparison will offer some insight if anyone is considering it.
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Midnight Rider

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Re: Traction Dynamics?
« Reply #47 on: February 05, 2007, 12:35:07 AM »

Thanks for this report, Don.  And really, it's about what I expected to hear...something between where it was before and what anybody who has pride in what they produce is going to tell you.  There's a couple of places I ride to with regularity on the weekends if I'm not really taking a ride..about 25 miles each way, along a road here we locally refer to as "The Copperhead", going out to 29 Dreams.  It's not The Dragon, but a lot of people go down on it every year.  There are a couple of places on this road, just before entering a 90 degree or better right hander, going downhill, and the road has been patched several times (poorly).  It's one of those deals where you just got through accelerating out of a left hander that's more sweeping in nature, then you have to set up for this sharp right with this patched up pavement right before the turn.  If you are a little hot, the suspension on the big bike will jar you pretty good when setting up...some people have lost it there because the tires just can't stay on the pavement from the chattering of the suspension, as the front end is all but collapsed.  Sounds a lot like a shorter duration of what you're describing, only with a pretty damn sharp curve at the end of the "rubboard".  Sounds to me like this front end would help in a situation like that.  Getting rid of the diving and the raising of the suspension is also something worthwhile, IMO.  Of course, my basis for comparison is a bit foggy because of the extremes of the bikes I'm comparing.

Sounds like it's definitely worth doing some more thinking about...
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Twolanerider

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Re: Traction Dynamics?
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2007, 01:01:43 AM »

Thanks for this report, Don.  And really, it's about what I expected to hear...

Sounds like it's definitely worth doing some more thinking about...



Agreed completely Terry.  It is an improvement.  And a noticable and obvious one.  For the way most of us ride most of these bikes most of the time, however, I'm just not sure it's 1000-1200 dollars worth of improvement.  Definitely needs some thought. 

Quite frankly at this point their half-way option of a fully installed set of emulators and new good springs seems a fair option also.  Half the money or therabouts and fair amount of the gain.

The harder you ride it as a thrasher the more you'd be interested in full upgrade.  Anyone could be more easily access the adjustability could also find it easier to justify as they could take more advantage of the ability to tailer the system to different days, roads and moods.  That's not a practical option for us though.  Yet another reason the emulators installation might be an honest alternative.
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Woop De Doo

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Re: Traction Dynamics?
« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2007, 08:51:22 AM »

Twolane
   Appreciate your feedback on this setup. I'm an old motocosser and front break a lot. I do not like the way the front end sinks on my bike when front wheel braking. I actually believe that the front suspension needs more help than the rear suspension. You have provided some valuable feedback and it is appreciated.

   Don S
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Twolanerider

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Re: Traction Dynamics?
« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2007, 03:49:45 PM »

Twolane
   Appreciate your feedback on this setup. I'm an old motocosser and front break a lot. I do not like the way the front end sinks on my bike when front wheel braking. I actually believe that the front suspension needs more help than the rear suspension. You have provided some valuable feedback and it is appreciated.

   Don S

Don, my SEEG was that way (badly) right out of the box.  It would actually bottom out under moderate to heavy braking.  Going to the heavy SE fork oil made a big difference.  Might be worth trying just for the hell of it.  If it got things to a satisfactory point it'd be a heluva lot cheaper than rebuilding a front end.   Just an option to consider.....
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Woop De Doo

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Re: Traction Dynamics?
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2007, 10:18:04 AM »

Twolane
  Thanks again for the input. I'll give the heavy fork oil a try on my next service.

   Thanks
   Don S
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RJ749

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Re: Traction Dynamics?
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2007, 06:00:14 PM »

Great comparison, thanks for the effort.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 06:48:52 PM by Rjob749 »
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Twolanerider

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Re: Traction Dynamics?
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2007, 06:39:41 PM »


compaison


That would be like the Italian guy standing next to you, right  :nixweiss: ?   :huepfenlol2:
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RJ749

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Re: Traction Dynamics?
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2007, 06:48:38 PM »

That would be like the Italian guy standing next to you, right  :nixweiss: ?   :huepfenlol2:

Aw chit and we have spell check if I'd use it.
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DavidB

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Re: Traction Dynamics?
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2007, 07:04:08 PM »

I removed the fork and the top caps on them. I then dropped in a front wheel spacer down both tubes and filled the forks with 15 wt oil, about one more oz than stock. This preloads the frontend and takes up a little more of the compressable air space above the valves.
The bike drives into curves now instead of doing the wallowing thing it liked from the factory.

Now if I could figure out how to get the kickstand up high enough to get it out of the pavement.
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