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[porthole]

2009 Approx 4 years, 35,000 miles

Swing arm bearings and tires
2012 52353 miles

Doing some work to the bike and Jim - HD Dude suggested I check my swing arm bushings.

Nothing in the manual for this - so this is the way I checked it.

Light pressure pressing on either end the swing arm causes about .010 to .012" movement.

The swing arm does not move near the pivot, this is the end of the arm, which would be a "twisting" motion.

Something I found out while doing this too, the 36mm Jim's or George's Garage wrench does not bit with Arnott shocks installed, still have to remove the shocks.

[porthole]

.

[porthole]

.

[SneakyPete]

Doing some work to the bike and Jim - HD Dude suggested I check my swing arm bushings.

Nothing in the manual for this - so this is the way I checked it.

Light pressure pressing on either end the swing arm causes about .010 to .012" movement.

The swing arm does not move near the pivot, this is the end of the arm, which would be a "twisting" motion.

Something I found out while doing this too, the 36mm Jim's or George's Garage wrench does not bit with Arnott shocks installed, still have to remove the shocks.

So does this mean your bushings are good or bad?

[grc]

Since the rubber bushings are the rear drivetrain mounts, they should in fact have some "give" to them (I assume you're talking about the rubber bushings and not the bearings).  This thread made me curious, so I hauled out the manuals and sure enough, I can't find any kind of specification for bearing or bushing play either.  Does anyone else find that to be rather strange? 

Duane, now that you've got everything torn down that far do you plan to replace the bearings and bushings anyway?

Jerry

[Boatman]

So does this mean your bushings are good or bad?

Pete, I think that's what Duane is trying  to find out.       I don't know/can't help out either.  I believe Duane has around 35,000 miles on them, hope they aren't worn out yet.  I'd say he is good to go  once the axle and shocks are in place.

[porthole]

When I was speaking with Jim about other stuff, he mentioned checking this. I don't think it is the rubber bushings, as it is a "hard" movement I feel, e.g.- it feels like a stop, not rubber bushing flex.
If Jim didn't mention this to me I would not have found it, it is very small amount.

So does this mean your bushings are good or bad?

Don't Know Pete.

Since the rubber bushings are the rear drive train mounts, they should in fact have some "give" to them (I assume you're talking about the rubber bushings and not the bearings). 

Can't answer that Jerry. I assume the play I can feel is the bearing-bushing. I can make the swing arm move more with more pressure, which I assume is the rubber bushing.
I was using light pressure to get this measurement.

Duane, now that you've got everything torn down that far do you plan to replace the bearings and bushings anyway?

Jerry - I just got a sizable order of tools to do multiple things on the bike. It would depend on how much more we are talking. I have already spent more then planned for this "winter" project. I would guess the bearings and bushings are not that much, and getting them out of the swing arm requires only a press and some sockets.
Re-installing the parts requires more special tools. 

I believe Duane has around 35,000 miles on them, hope they aren't worn out yet.

You are correct Bob, 35K

[porthole]

Jim got back to me via PM.

He says there should be 0 movement.

He also says it can be done with just sockets.

[porthole]

An alternative to HD bushings, bearings and spacers
True Track bearings $298.00

[porthole]

True Track rubber isohlators (their spelling) $90.00

[porthole]

True Track = $387 (retail)

HD parts    = $132 (20% dealer)

Is True Track worth the extra $255?

[hogasm]

True Track = $387 (retail)

HD parts    = $132 (20% dealer)

Is True Track worth the extra $255?

NO

[porthole]

NO

Easy Brian - we're in the same room.

That True Track reference above is not for the plate, rather it is for the swing arm bearings.

[hogasm]

Easy Brian - we're  the same room.

That True Track reference above is not for the plate, rather it is for the swing arm bearings.

no

bearings and bushings wear out....

what makes you think that theirs won't.....their word

Preventive maintenance......replace the bearings and rubber bushings every 25-30k and align and all will be well

[hd-dude]

Having looked at all of the replacement axles and bushings on the market I am of the opinion that the best way to go on these is with the OEM spherical bearings and the Sta-Bo bushings. The Sta-bo's reduce or elimite the lateral movement in the swingarm so the OEM bearing should last longer. Also the drive train alignment tools will not work most of the aftermarket axles. I was told by one of the manufactures that there is no need to align when you use thier kit . "it centers itself"

[AXIL]

  and it installs in minutes with simple hand tools.       axil

[porthole]

  and it installs in minutes with simple hand tools.       axil

What does?

[SneakyPete]

no

bearings and bushings wear out....

what makes you think that theirs won't.....their word

Preventive maintenance......replace the bearings and rubber bushings every 25-30k and align and all will be well

I'm with Brian on this one.  I changed out my swingarm bearings at 20K, had visible play. Now have 48K on bike and had a wobble in MV.  Gonna make the change at next rear tire change shortly

[REGGAB]

About that 36mm situation.  With Bitubos, the only thing I can use is a socket or open end.  Nothing else will fit due to the larger size of the lower eyelet.

[porthole]

About that 36mm situation.  With Bitubos, the only thing I can use is a socket or open end.  Nothing else will fit due to the larger size of the lower eyelet.

The Arnott's are even bigger! I have the Bitubos sitting on a shelf, curious, sure enough - smaller then the Arnott's.

I can't use a socket without removing the lower bolt. The special wrench .........................................

[porthole]

Well - any decision about whether to remove the swing arm and replace the bushings was decided last night.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=34600.msg555647#msg555647

[RJ749]

Well - any decision about whether to remove the swing arm and replace the bushings was decided last night.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=34600.0;all

Saw the other thread, bummer, hope it all works out.

On the Tracula though, when we were all doing Traxxions and 440's I did the True Trak and went for the whole deal including Tracula.

The 06 SEUC is rock solid now, however I can't attribute how much each upgrade contributed as all were done at the same time with 3,000 miles or so on the bike.

I can tell you the Tracula made the swing arm pretty stiff but handling is great and rear steer is definitely not an issue.

What the hell is a few bucks with all we put in these machines anyway?  I would do the Tracula again and still may on the Nanner.

[porthole]

I think Howie did the bronze bushing and bearing thing, but I never heard the results

[Talon]

I think Howie did the bronze bushing and bearing thing, but I never heard the results

Yea he did, don't remember his thoughts, I think he got caught up in the motor rebuilds.

Craig

[hogasm]

Yea he did, don't remember his thoughts, I think he got caught up in the motor rebuilds.

Craig

Don;t you remember......best thing since NYC pizza...only thing better is Traxxion

[porthole]

Don;t you remember......best thing since NYC pizza...only thing better is Traxxion

Only thing special about NYC pizza is the price   

[Talon]

I always liked NJ pizza, and Philly may have invented the Philly cheese steak but NJ perfected it! That's the two things I miss the most from NJ since moving to Colorado. They are starting to get good pizza, guys from NJ. But cheese steaks are still a joke!

Craig

[porthole]

My swing is out and on the bench.

I checked the play again like below - about.015"

[porthole]

So, I have no parts yet - decided to take out the bushings without a press. Fairly simple. With stuff I had either laying around or in the toolbox I was able to remove the bushings without a press.
I have a press available at my buddies shop, but it is a 13 mile ride one way and then I would have to hang out for awhile..........

[porthole]

Couple of sockets, nuts, washers, one Nice bearing and a piece of stainless all thread.

[porthole]

So, anyone know the diameter of the swing arm shaft?

Can't find the spec anywhere.

[porthole]

I'll post pics later of what I used to install the bearings, simple tools.

But - new bearings - same play.
There go those hopes of an improvment.

Only thing I didn't change is the pivot shaft, but there is no measurable wear on the shaft - any one have the specs for the shaft?

My local dealers do not have one in stock to measure. Come to think of it - they haven't had much in stock lately.

[Boatman]

Sorry there is no improvement Duane.  Anything I get has to be ordered by my dealer.  Get about everything on line.  It would be great if they had one to compare.  They (swingarms) probably all have that much play.   At least you know what was done and it will help the rest of us in the future.

[HogBreath]

I've been watching this thread Duane. I had the Black NightRod special. It rode great most of the time, but, then, for no reason it would feel like the rear tire wasn't following the front. At first I shrugged it off as the wide rear tire gripping the road differently than the front rear tire. One day it was on the rack in the garage and someone happened to push on the rear tire sideways. It moved. I never gauged the movement, but, I'd guess it to be movement similar to your's. The movement was coming from the swing arm bearing on the right side. The bike was new and still under waranty, so I carried it back to the dealer. They didn't fnd anything wrong. I brought it home, put it on the rack..same thing. Sold the bike soon after, so never fixed the problem.

I'm curious, do you feel the rear tire feeling as if it's not following the front?? Or did you just simply check the bearings to be checking?

[porthole]

One day it was on the rack in the garage and someone happened to push on the rear tire sideways. It moved. I never gauged the movement, but, I'd guess it to be movement similar to yours.

Ken - the only way I felt any play with my swing arm was because the rear tire was off and it was suggested that I check it. Moving the tire while in the frame I seriously doubt I would have been able to feel any play.

I'm curious, do you feel the rear tire feeling as if it's not following the front??
Or did you just simply check the bearings to be checking?

Never felt anything like you or others have described with the "feels like it is not on track"

I have had the wobble, but that is different. So the second question would be it's own answer.

[porthole]

Sorry there is no improvement Duane.  Anything I get has to be ordered by my dealer.  Get about everything on line.  It would be great if they had one to compare.  They (swingarms) probably all have that much play.   At least you know what was done and it will help the rest of us in the future.

Hey Bob,
 
As far as the swing arm pivot shaft is concerned - there should not be any wear. The shaft is bolted in the frame, the inner swing arm bearing's inner race fits on this shaft.
Shaft goes in, nuts torqued on each side,  inner bearings "bearing" ride on the inner race which is stationary .

As long as all the parts are good the inner doesn't move on the shaft.

[porthole]

Correction
***********************************************************

Need to point out something here, the "no improvement" I mentioned above is the measurement from old bearings to new bearings with the swing arm on the bench - not installed on the bike and the pivot shaft torqued to specs.

Sorry for any confusion 

[SneakyPete]

I'm with Brian on this one.  I changed out my swingarm bearings at 20K, had visible play. Now have 48K on bike and had a wobble in MV.  Gonna make the change at next rear tire change shortly

Changed out the spherical bearings in the swingarm as well as the rubber spacers while changing the rear tire.  Bike rides like on rails again.  My recommendation is to change these parts out every 25-30K miles using stock HD parts.  Along with proper alignment, high speed wobble is no issue.  JMHO.

[porthole]

OK, done with the swing arm.

This is the "special" press I used to push the inner spacer into the bearing. Hi tech, eh?

[porthole]

Does a fine job

[porthole]

I used my "all thread", couple of nuts, washers, a nice bearing and the old bushings along with one of the trans tool drivers.

This easily pressed the bearings into the swing arm.

[porthole]

pieces and parts

[porthole]

After getting the bearings seated I tried slipping the swing arm onto the trans (still sitting on the bench). Didn't fit, so I used a bolt and the same spacers, washers etc to move the bearing out just a bit on both sides.

[porthole]

I checked the play in the shaft after the bearing were installed, was about the same as prior to replacing.

This is not critical (swing arm not mounted).

I had .008-.010" play depending on how hard I pushed.

I would now say .008 - .010" is normal

[porthole]

Once the swing arm was mounted, torqued and the Sta Bo's installed I checked again for play. There was no play that could be "felt" now, but I could still see movement on the dial indicator. This may have been just me pushing harder then before.

The swing arm feels good in the frame now.

I would suggest, should you be doing this yourself , that in addition to replacing all the parts involved that you have on hand 2 extra 1/2" fine thread nuts. These are used as jam nuts on one end of the pivot shaft while you torque the opposite end.

I would also suggest you have two non-impact 3/8 drive 6 point deep sockets to torque and hold the pivot shaft nuts. My rubber bushings were snug enough that I had a difficult time getting the sockets in.

The sockets are less then $5 at Sears and it makes the job easier.

[SneakyPete]

pieces and parts

Duane, great tutorial and photos.  You said you were going with the Sta-bos too.  Have you used them before?  If not, curious to know if they make a difference and if they induce vibration to the frame.  My feeling is that you need to replace the stock rubber spacers which will have the same effect.

That's a fine tool you invented, maybe we can get a group of site members to contribute covering the cost and send it around for them to use, just like the alignment tool!  I'm in for $1.     

[porthole]

going with the Sta-bos too.  Have you used them before?  If not, curious to know if they make a difference and if they induce vibration to the frame.  My feeling is that you need to replace the stock rubber spacers which will have the same effect.

Pete - first time for the Sta-Bo's. It has been long enough since I last rode teh bike that unless the vibration was bad I might not notice it.
I did replace the rubber bushings

That's a fine tool you invented, maybe we can get a group of site members to contribute covering the cost and send it around for them to use, just like the alignment tool!  I'm in for $1. 

You big spender  you 

[porthole]

OK, got the 100 mile road test in.

Aside from replacing all the related swing arm wear parts I added a set of Sta-Bo bushings and removed the Ride Str-8 stabilizer. It will not work with my current oil pan.

I also aligned the drive train using the "alignment tools" we group purchased.

I don't know if the alignment helped. The front engine mount was dead on and the upper link was about 1/8" off (just a guess).

The bike does handle better and the rear suspension feels "tighter" - more in control.

Doing four things at once means i don't know if it was a single item or a collective change.

Either way, it is good.

[Ironhorse]

Well I'm right behind you. I'm in the process of swapping out the swing arm on my '01 to the later style swingarm. I'm having the polyurethane bushings installed as well. It already has a Ride Str8 on it now. It should all stiffen the rear end up.

[porthole]

The one road that use to make me nervous I haven't been able to test yet. Was on it yesterday but was "following"  ........................

Nothing special just an uphill, decreasing radius, highway entrance with a bit of a washboard thrown in for good measure with a real nice twist the throttle and go highway entrance.

[Ironhorse]

Well I got mine back a few weeks ago and finally have something to report here.

Like I said I changed out the old "Box Style" swing arm for a '02 and later style. Instead of reaming out the tranny case, I used a conversion kit from "Motorcycle Metal". It's just like the Sta-Bo in that it is a poly bushing set up that allows the use of the OEM pivot shaft. The shop had to modify and cut down the Ride Str8 bracket to make it clear the newer swing arm. The bike feels real tight and stable. Today I had it out doing 85 and there were breezes and gusts. Even on the uneven crappy roads of LA the bike was firm with no movement. My ONLY complaint is that the floorboards feel "buzzy" at times, but that is supposed to break in after 500 miles. Either that or you get used to it by then.

Mark

[Twolanerider]

Well I got mine back a few weeks ago and finally have something to report here.

Like I said I changed out the old "Box Style" swing arm for a '02 and later style. Instead of reaming out the tranny case, I used a conversion kit from "Motorcycle Metal". It's just like the Sta-Bo in that it is a poly bushing set up that allows the use of the OEM pivot shaft. The shop had to modify and cut down the Ride Str8 bracket to make it clear the newer swing arm. The bike feels real tight and stable. Today I had it out doing 85 and there were breezes and gusts. Even on the uneven crappy roads of LA the bike was firm with no movement. My ONLY complaint is that the floorboards feel "buzzy" at times, but that is supposed to break in after 500 miles. Either that or you get used to it by then.

Mark

Doing it this way you need the new bushings (Sta-Bo or other) to mate the newer swing arm to the old smaller shaft, the swingarm itself, axle and axle hardware and wheel bearings.  Anything else?  Do you know of a particular difference between the Sta-Bo bushings and the parts you chose that made the decision between the two?

[Ironhorse]

Doing it this way you need the new bushings (Sta-Bo or other) to mate the newer swing arm to the old smaller shaft, the swingarm itself, axle and axle hardware and wheel bearings.  Anything else?  Do you know of a particular difference between the Sta-Bo bushings and the parts you chose that made the decision between the two?

Twolane,

That was about it. You can either purchase a new rear caliper or have your other one bored out which is what I did. The axle hole in rear wheel may also need enlargening and a spacer. I think the Motorcycle Metal and Sta-Bo bushings are pretty much the same. Some folks have posted that they are indeed the same but I can't say for sure not having seen the Sta-Bo set up. The only reason I went with these is becasue I found them at a good price.

Mark

[Twolanerider]

The only reason I went with these is becasue I found them at a good price.

Mark

Thanks Mark.  I've got a swingarm, axle, caliper and wheel bearings here already that will sometime this spring go on the old 2000 Road Glide.  Just realized still need to pick up a newer set of spacers.  Had forgot about those until right now.  Something else to add to the pile.

I'd only seen the Sta-bo parts to make that transition.  Good to know the only difference between the options was just a good price.  Would've been disappointed to have purchased the others and then find there's some significantly better option.

[Ironhorse]

TwoLane,

I picked up the ones from Motorcycle Metal from a rider in another forum. He bought them and then decided to ream out his tranny case instead. He said it was a BAD decision as he butchered up the hole even with a quality boring tool. So he sold me his set for $150.00.

On a separate note, are you still running the M&M FI on your 2000 SERG?

[Twolanerider]

On a separate note, are you still running the M&M FI on your 2000 SERG?

Sure am Mark.  Had a couple of M&M bikes in years past and a few friends over the years that I've helped tinker on their own have had Marelli bikes also.  So I'm decently familiar and don't mind it.  Relatively simple system realy and nothing special to maintain.  Having an excellent tuner close by that does a great job of tuning M&M with a Power Commander helps too.

[Ironhorse]

Update.

After finishing up the Solvang GTG Ride I do believe the Poly-Bushings are breaking in. The floorboards and seat are less "buzzy". It was pretty pronounced for a while, so much so that I could barely keep my feet on the highway pegs at freeway speeds. However now a slight buzz is only noticeable at about 40mph and that should work out over time too. The rear is firm and held well in the corners. Greg and I hit some pretty soft tar snakes on our way to Ojai for lunch. I had the bike leaned over in a curve and both tires hit tar snakes at the same time. The whole bike "hopped" a bit but I do not think I experienced any lateral swing arm movement. I'd say the new swing arm, poly-bushings and modified RideStr8 bracket are doing their job.

Mark

[moscooter]

 
While I did not read every entry here,  I am aware and appreciate the concerns about stability with the Tour models and that some have had serious problems.  I had no such problems with my 2001 RK Classic,  but if I had updated prior to the (new frame design),  I would have opted for one of those after-market devices to help eliminate the "sway" that can become lethal in some situations.

I will say that so far with the new 2009 Ultra classic SE that I now have..........the front end seems lighter than my RK was and it's about 170 pounds heavier.  Haven't really rung it out yet,  but I think they (HD) made great strides in correcting those problems with the new design.

[grc]

Original frame design, 1979.  Finally got it right, 2009.  Yup, sounds about right for the MoCo.

Jerry