Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2  All

Author Topic: Why is gas so HIGH?  (Read 3300 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

HWYMAN1

  • Basic 103
  • Elite CVO Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 906
  • FLHRSEI.ORG
Why is gas so HIGH?
« on: July 10, 2008, 07:43:51 AM »

Some interesting possbilities of gas increases: http://www.stopoilspeculators.com/
Logged
Rinehart TD
103 with zipper 575 GD cams
Bitubo rear shocks
Baker DD6 transmission
Traxxion dynamics front end
Stage 1 SE AC

WaSEEG

  • Senior CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 373
Re: Why is gas so HIGH?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2008, 08:37:19 AM »

Well, it sure doesn't look like a supply problem.  My wife and I recently did a 7300 mile road trip and gasoline was plentiful, but expensive.  Same can be said for a lack of refining capacity; I can buy as much $5.00 a gallon diesel for my boat as I want and my Visa card can handle.  It's interesting that we ran up against our gas credit card limits for the first time ever this year on our roadtrip.  We have low limits ($300-$500), have had the cards for over 30 years and always pay them off at the beginning of the month and don't carry any balances.  It doesn't take many $40-$50 gas stops (2 bikes) to exceed those limits. 

If it's not supply or refining capacity one wonders exactly what's driving this.  I know all about the emerging economies in India and China.  Still, no apparent shortage on the supply side.  I believe someone somewhere is manipulating the market.  Unfortunately, with no regulatory oversight we get $140.00 per barrel oil.  Look what happened to the mortgage market when regulatory rules were eased.  Now we get to bail out the banks and the mortgage holders that bought more house than they could afford.  I see a bleak future for my grand children and I'm not sure I can do a damn thing about it.
Logged
'05 SEEG
PC III usb
SE Air Filter
Freedom Pipes
Freedom Cam
SE 6-speed
VPC
Wild -1 575's
Garmin Zumo 660
Traxxion AK-20's
300mm Bitubo's

'06 Tiara S/4300

mr_magoo

  • 5k CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7109

    • CVO1: 04 SEEG Orange & Black All Attitude
    • CVO2: 08 CUSE Copper Canyon & Stardust Silver the Cruiser
Re: Why is gas so HIGH?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2008, 09:04:13 AM »

Well said Waseeg. :2vrolijk_21: little guy pays for it all the time.
Logged
2008FLHTCUSE3 Copper Canyon & Stardust Silver
Freedom Gear drive cams, Elite D Exhaust.

2004 SEEG Pumpkin
freedom exhaust
power commander
W/ American legend trailer<br

harleyteam

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1524
  • RED BIKES RULE

    • CVO1: 07 SERK - Razor Red
    • CVO2: 90 Heritage Classic (non cvo)
    • CVO3: 75 XLCH (non cvo)
Re: Why is gas so HIGH?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2008, 11:08:49 AM »

Thought you might find this interesting. A little lengthy, but well worth the time for this thought starter.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill Phillips spent nearly 50 years in the US oil and gas industry; most of his career was with the Phillips Petroleum Company. Bill is a descendant of Frank Phillips. Frank Phillips, along with his brother Lee Eldas (L.E.) Phillips, Sr., founded the original Phillips Petroleum Company in 1917 in Bartlesville, OK. Do you remember Phillips 66 gas stations? Phillips Petroleum Company merged with Conoco, Inc. in 2002 to form the current ConocoPhillips oil company.
So, when Bill talks about oil and gas issues, listen - very closely. You will find Bill's thoughts and facts very revealing, very compelling and very difficult to argue with. He writes:
-----------
As you prepare to cast your crucial ballots this Fall, please think long and hard about the far-reaching, cumulative effects of the US political philosophies, policies and legislation that have contributed to the current and future US oil supply situation.

 
Did you know that the United States does NOT have any big oil companies. It's true: the largest American oil company, Exxon Mobil, is only the 14th largest in the world, and is dwarfed by the really big oil companies -- all owned by foreign governments or government-sponsored monopolies -- that dominate the world's oil supply.

 
With 94% of the world's oil supply locked up by foreign governments, most of which are hostile to the United States, the relatively puny American oil companies do not have access to enough crude oil to significantly affect the market and help bring prices down. Thus, ExxonMobil, a "small" oil company, buys 90% of the crude oil that it refines for the U.S. market from the big players, i.e, mostly-hostile foreign governments. The price at the U.S. pump is rising because the price the big oil companies charge ExxonMobil and the other small American companies for crude oil is going up as the value of the American dollar goes down. They will eventually bleed this country into printing even more money and we will go into runway inflation once again as we did under the Carter Democratic reign.

 
This is obviously a tough situation for the American consumer. The irony is that it doesn't have to be that way. The United States--unlike, say, France--actually has vast petroleum reserves. It would be possible for American oil companies to develop those reserves, play a far bigger role in international markets, and deliver gas at the pump to American consumers at a much lower price, while creating many thousands of jobs for Americans. This would be infinitely preferable to shipping endless billions of dollars to Saudi Arabia, Russia and Venezuela to be used in propping up their economies.
So, why doesn't it happen?  Because the Democrats -- aided, sadly, by a handful of Republicans --deliberately keep gas prices high and our domestic oil companies small by putting most of our reserves off limits to development. China is now drilling in the Caribbean, off Cuba but our own companies are barred by law from developing large oil fields off the coasts of Florida and California. Enormous oil-shale deposits in the Rocky Mountain states could go a long way toward supplying American consumers' needs, but the Democratic Congress won't allow those resources to be developed. ANWR contains vast petroleum reserves, but we don't know how vast, because Congress, not wanting the American people to know how badly its policies are hurting our economy, has made it illegal to explore and map those reserves, let alone develop them.

 
In short, all Americans are paying a terrible price for the Democrat's perverse energy policies. I own some small interests in tiny, 4 barrel-per-day oil wells in Wyoming. We have 14 agencies that have iron-hand jurisdiction over us. If we drop any oil on the ground when the refinery truck comes to pick up oil from our holding tanks, we are fined. Yet down the road the state will spray thousands of gallons of used oil on a dirt road to control dirt. When it rains that oil runs into rivers and creeks. Yet a cup of oil on the ground at our wellhead is a $50,000 EPA fine plus additional fines from state regulating agencies. They treat oil as if it were plutonium that has the potential to leak into the environment. We are fined if our dirt burms are not high enough around a holding tank, yet the truck that picks up our oil runs down the road at 60 mph with no burm around it. People wonder why there is no more exploration in this country. It's because of the regulators; those people who have lived their whole lives doing nothing but imposing fines on small operators like us for doing mostly nothing.

 
So, America enjoy your $4.00 per gallon gasoline. Your dollar is now worth 0.62 Euro-Cents. The lack of American production of GNP, the massive trade deficit (as labor markets have moved overseas to fight insanely high union imposed labor costs in America) and the run away printing of money (backed by nothing of value here in America) has caused the dollar to become more worthless on the international market. And that's where our oil comes from. It's paid for with dollars that become more worthless everyday. If we had just kept par with the Euro we'd be paying $62 dollars per barrel for oil (42 gallons) or about $1.50 instead of $2.50 a gallon for crude oil.

 continued next post:
Logged



HA, HA, HA,  ,,,,, I LIKE IT !!!!!!!


life member - National HOG - NRA - NY Abate
member -CVOHarley - Nia. Falls Chapter HOG
              Red Knights NY21 - PGR

harleyteam

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1524
  • RED BIKES RULE

    • CVO1: 07 SERK - Razor Red
    • CVO2: 90 Heritage Classic (non cvo)
    • CVO3: 75 XLCH (non cvo)
Re: Why is gas so HIGH?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2008, 11:09:24 AM »


heres the rest



What the US government also does not tell you is that it is the leaseholder and royalty recipient of most oil production and receives 25% of the gross oil sales before we pay for electricity to lift the oil, propane to keep the oil-water separators from freezing in the winters. We pay a pumper to visit each well everyday plus we have equipment failures all the time. We pay for that out of our 75% of gross sales. The government does not share in any expenses to run any production well. So, if the Big Oil Companies are making record profits, then so is the federal government from it's 25% tax on every molecule of oil sold to a refinery in this country. Why isn't the government on the stand for "Record" profits? What you don't see is this 25% of the sales price of crude oil being siphoned away by the government. That money plus the road taxes, state taxes, etc. amounts to over $1 per gallon of gasoline you are buying while the governments only admit to about 50 cents per gallon.

 
To all you Democrats, when you go vote for your candidate, a blazing liberal like Barrack Hussein Obama, just keep in mind that their liberal spending habits will further decrease the value of the American dollar on the world market and your gasoline costs will hike even higher. As they introduce more give-away programs, raise taxes on everyone to pay people not to produce or work, your dollar will continue to dwindle on the world market and you will be paying $10.00 per gallon at the next election. Cheap hydrocarbon fuel is all over. Enjoy! Enjoy the fruits of your decision to elect these folks when you are there in that voting booth and you stab your pin through a Democrat's name.
 
William "Bill" Phillips
 

Logged



HA, HA, HA,  ,,,,, I LIKE IT !!!!!!!


life member - National HOG - NRA - NY Abate
member -CVOHarley - Nia. Falls Chapter HOG
              Red Knights NY21 - PGR

gunrunner

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 100

    • CVO1: 05 flstfse
    • CVO2: 08 flhrse4
Re: Why is gas so HIGH?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2008, 08:29:20 PM »

Great post, and just consider all the high paying jobs that would be created by opening the reserves. the Bush  enegy plan from years ago, opening up ANWR and building pipeline through canada would have created an estimated 500,000 jobs.
Logged

hogasm

  • Guest
Re: Why is gas so HIGH?
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2008, 08:45:08 PM »

Great post, and just consider all the high paying jobs that would be created by opening the reserves. the Bush  enegy plan from years ago, opening up ANWR and building pipeline through canada would have created an estimated 500,000 jobs.

Oh my god NO!!!!!! we can't create new jobs.........what the hell would we do with welfare then if people had jobs........

Save your pennies for the next few years and when the USA goes into the gutter......buy, buy buy!!!!!!!    sooooo

when the Democrats are no longer in control, you will be a wealthy person


It is a shame that we, the American people have no one to blame but ourselves......we,the majority, voted them in

If you didn't vote then you have no one to blame but yourself....the old saying is every vote counts
Logged

gunrunner

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 100

    • CVO1: 05 flstfse
    • CVO2: 08 flhrse4
Re: Why is gas so HIGH?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2008, 08:57:38 PM »

I think as you hogazm, and have and will continue to buy during this downturn.
Logged

kojak

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1242
Re: Why is gas so HIGH?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2008, 09:44:03 PM »

Wake up! Lots of commodities have doubled in price in the past 2 years. Priced rice, flour, eggs, milk, oil, gold, platinum, copper, fertilizer recently? There's many more. Your electric bill is getting ready to spike 50 to 60% in many parts of the US in next 3 months. The dollar is the prime culprit, its been devalued by this administration while the public is distracted by these side issues. Why do you say? Because when you print increasing amount of money without a corresponding increase in GDP or running a massive budget deficit financed by foreign countries, they cause inflation in goods or deflation in the value of the currency. The solution is to increase interest rates which raises the value of the dollar and decreases asset inflation and to minimize the budget deficit. However, it can also make the recession more severe. This was precisely the problem Ronald Reagan and Paul Volcker had to solve in the 70's. Reason "speculators" are piling into commodities including oil is to get a hedge against the stock market and the falling dollar. Right now we are losing economically and China is winning.
Logged
kojak
2022 CVO RGL
2022 Apex FLTRK Traded
2021 CVO Limited Bronze Armor Sold
2019 RGS Billiard Blue Traded
2017 CVO Limited Spiked Olive Traded
2016 CVO SG Stardust Traded
2013 CVO RG Atomic Orange Sold
2010 CVO SG Cobalt Sold
2007 CVO RK Blue Traded
2005 CVO EG Teal Traded
And some 20 other bikes over 45 years

gunrunner

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 100

    • CVO1: 05 flstfse
    • CVO2: 08 flhrse4
Re: Why is gas so HIGH?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2008, 09:56:21 PM »

What if instead of raising interest rates and deepening recession. we drill our own oil and stop shipping boatloads of money overseas to pay for our oil?
Logged

grc

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14216
  • AKA Grouchy Old Fart
    • IN


    • CVO1: 2005 SEEG2
Re: Why is gas so HIGH?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2008, 10:08:32 PM »


(Picture of me scratching my head in bewilderment)   OK, let's see.  We've had a Republican administration for nearly 8 years now, and a Republican Congress for most of that same period, but somehow this entire mess is the Democrats fault?  Sorry, but I'm not buying that BS.  I'm also just a tiny bit suspicious of that blurb from "Bill" Phillips.  Snopes is in the process of researching that one as we speak.  And while I'll admit that my memory isn't what it used to be (and it wasn't much to start with), hasn't George Bush been a Republican his entire life?  He is the guy who declared and signed the moratorium on off shore drilling I believe, back in 1990.  You know, I bet those damned Democrats forged his signature. >:(

Even the oil producers in the Middle East have stated publicly that there is no supply and demand justification for the current price of crude oil.  Since the price is obviously being manipulated by other than true market factors, what makes anyone seriously believe that adding more supply from U.S. fields is going to make a difference?  Recently the price of crude increased right after Saudi Arabia announced a production increase.  Somebody 'splain that one to me.

Sure, this country needs to do more with our own resources.  But if anyone believes that throwing open every sensitive area to uncontrolled drilling is going to reduce energy prices, they haven't been paying attention to the real issues.  How many more markets have to be artificially inflated and then burst before people figure out there are people and organizations out there manipulating markets for their own short term gains at everyone else's expense?  And that our government has allowed this through overzealous deregulation, to the point that the Republican heads of the Treasury and the Federal Reserve have come out with statements indicating they need Congress to authorize more and better regulation of financial markets.  I don't remember them saying anything about the folks on welfare being the cause of any of this, BTW.  But the value of the dollar plays a big part in the current "crisis".  And guess what the biggest problems are with the value of the dollar.  Huge budget deficits due to waging war while cutting taxes, and huge trade deficits due to shipping millions of manufacturing jobs overseas while promoting cheap credit and spend spend spend economic plans.  Maybe we need a couple more "stimulus" checks.  Wonder if China will lend us the money again?

Yes indeed, let's just ignore all the other evidence and causual factors and start drilling holes in every open space into which we can shoehorn a derrick.  While you folks are busy drilling holes I'll be chopping and stacking fire wood.  The price of natural gas has also been manipulated to record levels, even though the supply is more than adequate.  I figure the average person in the snow belt will see their heating bills at least double this coming winter.  Any of you folks in Florida have a room I could borrow for a few months?

Jerry
Logged
Jerry - 2005 Cherry SEEG  -  Member # 1155

H-D and me  -  a classic love / hate relationship.  Current score:  love 40, hate 50, bewildered 10.

geezerglide

  • 1K CVO Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1866
  • New Geezerglide
    • AB

Re: Why is gas so HIGH?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2008, 10:20:05 PM »

WaSEEG,

Mentioned capacity, do you know that their has only been one new refinery built in North America in the past twenty odd years, that is Valero in San Antonio. In Canada we have shut down approximately 5 -6 in various parts of the country, and no new refineries were built to replace those shut down.

Locally we are paying CDN $1.34 per litre which equates out to approx. US $5.234 a US Gallon. In the UJ they pay US $9.02 and in Sweden US $9.20.

Their are plans to erect approx. 3 - 4 refineries east of Edmonton. From FEED (Front end Engineering) to plant start up in takes 10 - 12 years to complete a new refinery.

The feed stock for these proposed refineries will come from the Tar (Oil) Sands in northern Alberta.

Lately a lot of the tree hugging legislators in community government (Mayors) and some congressmen, and lately Barrack  are trying to pass a Bill to make it illegal for the US Government to buy Oil Products from this Nasty, Dirty Oil that is produced in northern Alberta. It seems they want to buy Clean Oil Products from the the loyal middle East and offshore suppliers and bring it over in clean burning oil tankers. Ask them about the Carbon Footprint for this oil.

The effect that the rhetoric about Dirty Oil is causing is the building of Pipelines from Western Canada to the Ports in Western Canada to ship Oil to Chia and India rather than more Pipelines South th the US.

Canada is probably the most reliable and safe supplier of Oil to the US and if some people get their way, what do you think is going to happen to the prices for gasoline, fuel oil if thes people get theri way? the prices will sky rocket and if some foreign country decides they do not want to ship any Oil it will be like the Oil Embargo. Some of the young uns may not remember those times.

Something to think about,

geexerglide


Logged

gunrunner

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 100

    • CVO1: 05 flstfse
    • CVO2: 08 flhrse4
Re: Why is gas so HIGH?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2008, 10:25:00 PM »

GRC, if anyone is manipulating the oil prices its the govt. owned oil companies. Phillips says exxon is the 15th largest oil company and has little control over world prices(I heard they were 16th). If american companies were pricefixing and got caught heads would roll. They are constantly being ivestigated by the dems in congrss and they have turned up nothing. Its the OPEC monopoly and russia , venezuala doing the price fixing and no international law preventing them.
Logged

gunrunner

  • Full CVO Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 100

    • CVO1: 05 flstfse
    • CVO2: 08 flhrse4
Re: Why is gas so HIGH?
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2008, 10:37:27 PM »

Geezerglide,
I for one regret the way Canada has been treated on our not wanting to refine the high sulfur tar sand based oil, as I understand we have refineries best suited to refining this type of oil.

There has been no better friend to the US than our northern neighbors and we thank you with stupid lumber tarrifs, cattle regs and now this.
Logged

grc

  • 10K CVO Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14216
  • AKA Grouchy Old Fart
    • IN


    • CVO1: 2005 SEEG2
Re: Why is gas so HIGH?
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2008, 11:33:18 PM »


gunrunner, the oil companies set the production levels, and the markets set the prices.  The manipulation back in the 70's was by the OPEC oil companies, and it took the form of production cuts and embargos.  Reduce supply, and naturally prices increase.  The current situation, however, is not being driven by supply shortages.  The experts all agree that there is sufficient supply to meet current demand, and most will state that current conditions only justify a price in the 60 to 80 dollar range.  This includes the experts from OPEC.  The same lack of effective regulation and oversight that allowed the overheating and collapse of the mortgage market is now allowing speculators to distort the energy markets.  Couple that with the weak dollar, and we have a doubling of gasoline prices.  Letting Exxon drill more wells isn't going to fix those things in the near term, we need our leaders to get off their butts and fix what they have screwed up.  And the American public needs to hold politicians of both parties responsible when the next elections come around.  It hasn't been just one party riding the gravy train, it's been all of them.  And I think we need to get out the big brooms and clean house.

Jerry
Logged
Jerry - 2005 Cherry SEEG  -  Member # 1155

H-D and me  -  a classic love / hate relationship.  Current score:  love 40, hate 50, bewildered 10.
Pages: [1] 2  All
 

Page created in 0.215 seconds with 21 queries.