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Author Topic: When the good guys are bad  (Read 5267 times)

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porthole

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Re: When the good guys are bad
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2013, 10:15:13 PM »

DUI FF hits motorcylist

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/html5/video?id=9246433&pid=9246411&section=news/local/san_francisco

I don't even know what to say about this. Very sad for the motorcyclist. I hope he fully recovers.

But if that FF was indeed driving a fire truck intoxicated... the book fully needs to be thrown. It would be a disgrace to the MANY FFs in this country... and on this site... who put their lives on the line every day to protect lives.

Ken
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longlast

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Re: When the good guys are bad
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2013, 07:24:24 AM »

I fully agree with you Ken!! If it's found he was intoxicated then the full wrath of the law should be implemented.

I'm sorry for his fellow F.F because of one bad apple dose not mean all are. The bad part is that it's suspected his fellow FFs may have tried to cover up for him,....NOT a good move!!

I for one salute FFs for putting their lives on the line to save others.

As for the the rider Jack Frazier, Prayers for your recovery 
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Re: When the good guys are bad
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2013, 07:33:05 AM »

Hard for me to take sides. Flashing red lights do not give a EV the automatic RoW. If the driver had been drinking on duty, case closed. The motorcyclist appeared to be at a high rate of speed and had he approached the intersection carefully it would have been different. Still, drunk on duty.....case closed.
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Re: When the good guys are bad
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2013, 11:27:55 AM »

Hard for me to take sides. Flashing red lights do not give a EV the automatic RoW. If the driver had been drinking on duty, case closed. The motorcyclist appeared to be at a high rate of speed and had he approached the intersection carefully it would have been different. Still, drunk on duty.....case closed.

Jimmy - I noticed that in the video, too. The bike did appear to be going pretty fast for city streets. Can't prove he was speeding though, and he did have the green light. The fire truck blew through his red light.

I would think that the flashing lights on the fire truck could have been seen by the biker long before he got to the intersection. They are very bright and grab your attention, and they reflect all over everything, even if you can't yet see them directly.

What a mess.

Ken
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Re: When the good guys are bad
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2013, 12:21:15 PM »

Jimmy - I noticed that in the video, too. The bike did appear to be going pretty fast for city streets. Can't prove he was speeding though, and he did have the green light. The fire truck blew through his red light.

I would think that the flashing lights on the fire truck could have been seen by the biker long before he got to the intersection. They are very bright and grab your attention, and they reflect all over everything, even if you can't yet see them directly.

What a mess.

Ken
No bearing on this particular incident but you would be surprised at how many drivers "don't see" (at least they say the don't see) or yield to red lights/siren/air horn when you pull up behind them.

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spydglide

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Re: When the good guys are bad
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2013, 12:43:31 PM »

No bearing on this particular incident but you would be surprised at how many drivers "don't see" (at least they say the don't see) or yield to red lights/siren/air horn when you pull up behind them.

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And yet we're still surprised that they don't see bikers.  :-[  spyder
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Re: When the good guys are bad
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2013, 01:33:01 PM »

No bearing on this particular incident but you would be surprised at how many drivers "don't see" (at least they say the don't see) or yield to red lights/siren/air horn when you pull up behind them.

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What makes this story even sadder is the firefighters that tried to "aid" the intoxicated driver of the truck by taking him to a local pub and pumping water into him in an attempt to falsify the blood alcohol level.  That is incredibly bad judgment on their part.  Why do so many folks make bad situations worse by their actions after the fact.  Camaraderie and brotherhood are one thing.  But the ramifications of their actions on their families and their lives and on the biker are inexcusable.
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Re: When the good guys are bad
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2013, 03:01:06 PM »

What makes this story even sadder is the firefighters that tried to "aid" the intoxicated driver of the truck by taking him to a local pub and pumping water into him in an attempt to falsify the blood alcohol level.  That is incredibly bad judgment on their part.  Why do so many folks make bad situations worse by their actions after the fact.  Camaraderie and brotherhood are one thing.  But the ramifications of their actions on their families and their lives and on the biker are inexcusable.

Scott, don't you know it's a biological truism that no human will ever learn the lessons of the Nixon White House.


Dood, have no idea of course what the rider did or didn't see in this case.  I know in my case, however, there have been times when I didn't hear the sirens until they were so close on me that the speeding vehicle startled me.  Noise proofing in some modern vehicles really is that good.  In daytime flashing lights may not do much at all either.

What I've been unexpectedly surprised by, however, have been a few odd times when emergency lights were seen at night but badly misinterpreted.  Can think of a couple of times.  Don't know whether it was odd reflections from tall building corridors happen to be in at the time or some other effect.  But I've "seen" lights and not only didn't know which way away from me they were but just knew they were still very far away; right up until the moment an air horn blew as the vehicle got to me.  Strobes only also have a weird effect, at least with me, that when coming right at me until they're very close I sometimes can't tell if they're incoming or going away from me. 

Don't get me wrong; emergency lights and sirens are a tremendous benefit.  But they're not the absolute signal to other traffic that the drivers in the big red trucks or black and whites like to comfort themselves in to believing.
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Re: When the good guys are bad
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2013, 03:37:18 PM »

....


Dood, have no idea of course what the rider did or didn't see in this case.  I know in my case, however, there have been times when I didn't hear the sirens until they were so close on me that the speeding vehicle startled me.  Noise proofing in some modern vehicles really is that good.  In daytime flashing lights may not do much at all either.

... 

Don't get me wrong; emergency lights and sirens are a tremendous benefit.  But they're not the absolute signal to other traffic that the drivers in the big red trucks or black and whites like to comfort themselves in to believing.
Agreed... Vehicles are more air/sound tight then before... add to that stereos are more powerful (louder), and more distractions in vehicles for drivers. What my (30) years of experience as an emergency vehicle operator has taught me (and what I translate into motorcycle riding) is make eye contact and due diligence to be safe. When approaching intersection(s) and wanting to proceed against a traffic signal we are taught to stop, make eye contact, look at the other vehicles wheels... if their wheels are stopped then our wheels can roll. Following that principle (their wheels turning my wheels should be stopped or their wheels stopped my wheels can turn) is what I remember to do when riding my bike.

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spydglide

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Re: When the good guys are bad
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2013, 03:50:30 PM »

Always rode & lived by that rule of watching the drivers eyes for contact and the wheels stopping turning.  Worked up until a couple of yrs. ago when the driver pulled up, I made eye contact, and wheels stopped turning, next thing I know I'm looking at the front of his car as he accelerated into my path attempting to beat on-coming traffic from the other direction.  Just didn't want to wait, I guess.  Bad day for me and the Huckleberry was the result.  No fool proof way out there it seems.  :nervous: spyder
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Re: When the good guys are bad
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2013, 03:51:22 PM »


 if their wheels are stopped then our wheels can roll. Following that principle (their wheels turning my wheels should be stopped or their wheels stopped my wheels can turn) is what I remember to do when riding my bike.



We've got the same rules ::) .  The Kid has even noticed this.  Then has done the ubiquitous "why do you do that?"  Then get the "ohhhh, I'm gonna do that."
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Re: When the good guys are bad
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2013, 03:58:43 PM »

Always rode & lived by that rule of watching the drivers eyes for contact and the wheels stopping turning.  Worked up until a couple of yrs. ago when the driver pulled up, I made eye contact, and wheels stopped turning, next thing I know I'm looking at the front of his car as he accelerated into my path attempting to beat on-coming traffic from the other direction.  Just didn't want to wait, I guess.  Bad day for me and the Huckleberry was the result.  No fool proof way out there it seems.  :nervous: spyder
Spyder unfortunately it's not "foolproof" but the majority of the time it works in our benefit.

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Re: When the good guys are bad
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2013, 07:43:54 PM »

Drinking on the job = zero tolerance

Covering up for friends = zero + zero tolerance..

Of course, just my opinion.
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Re: When the good guys are bad
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2013, 08:15:32 PM »

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