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[Grey Ghost]

I have a new 2011 CVO SERGU with only 190 miles. The clattering noise from the motor is going to drive me nuts. It is present when the motor is both hot and cold and seems to be louder when hot. The noise starts at about 1800 revs and continues all the way past 3000 revs. I have received the typical response from the dealer . . . "they all do that". . . "it's normal" . . . and the best one . . . "get some miles on it and it should go away".

Interestingly, the noise started at about 75-100 miles on the odometer and gradually got worse.

I have gone through the previous threads about this issue and have learned that some of the members have got the dealer to replace the lifters and pushrods under warrantee. I am looking for a bit of advice on how to break the dealer log jam and look into the problem.

I have been looking into the S&S Quickee Pushrods as a possible solution. Does anyone know if they have them for the 110. I can't find that specifically stated in their catalog. (They haven't respinded to email communication) If I replace the Pushrods, am I better off replacing the lifters at the same time??

Are there any other causes for this clattering noise that I might be overlooking??

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Grey Ghost

[lilcoot]

I've been "blessed" with a noisy motor, too.  In addition to lifters, several people more knowledgeable than I have suggested the following possibilities when they heard my bike:

Sticky valves

Oil bleed down in the lifters.  Should disappear after it warms up.

Piston slap.  Mine develops at about 1800rpm and goes to 2200rpm, like yours, then disappears until 2900rpm, where it starts again.  I've read on other sites that this is a common pattern of piston slap.

Lifters.  I had my lifters replaced, and the noises are as bad as ever.   

Wearing compensator. 

Like you and many others, I've been told these are all "normal" noises.  I'm not buying their excuses.  I've heard calling customer service can light a fire under a dealer's azz, or even threaten with a lawsuit, but you need to try to get the dealers to take care of things before a lawsuit.

Good Luck, maybe we could get enough people together to file a class action lawsuit???   

Dan

[VANAMAL]

Sorry. I replaced lifters and pushrods and it didnt help. Tore the engine down after it started spitting oil and found it  had piston slap and a bad valve seat. I wouldnt do to many mods to it because hd will try and pass the blame onto you. Good luck

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

We have built/set-up, 7, 110"ers since 1/1/12.
Piston fitment seems to be well within specs, and they are quiet operating engines once completed.
Harley B lifters(now gone from our stock), or S&S lifters loaded to .140-.150", S&S pushrods, and a variety of cams.

Scott

[grc]

Sadly, as has been noted by some who have been down this road, there is no one simple answer to engine noise issues.  There are many possible contributors to the situation, and just throwing parts at it is unlikely to solve anything.  Most folks seem to always think any clicking or ticking noise is caused by lifters, for instance.  Not necessarily true.  And then there is the fact that a small amount of mechanical noise is in fact just part of the beast.  The trick is figuring out which sounds are in fact normal and which sounds signal a real problem.

All I can suggest is making certain you get your concerns on record both with your dealer and with H-D Customer Disservice, then ride it for awhile to see if the sound changes.  I would suggest taking it to a different dealership in hopes they have a better tech who can perform real diagnostics rather than just offer up the easy answer "they all do it", but the odds are against finding that guy at any of the Harley shops I've been in.  Harley won't pay them to just tear stuff apart looking for "possible" problems, so unless you find an independently wealthy tech who just enjoys figuring out stuff like this, nothing will be done until something fails.


Jerry

[Grey Ghost]

We have built/set-up, 7, 110"ers since 1/1/12.
Piston fitment seems to be well within specs, and they are quiet operating engines once completed.
Harley B lifters(now gone from our stock), or S&S lifters loaded to .140-.150", S&S pushrods, and a variety of cams.

Scott

You are thinking along the sames lines as I am. I can't say definitely that there is no piston slap, but it sure doesn't sound like it. As for the lifter/pushrod replacement . . . going with S&S doesn't violate the warrantee?? And, you are recommending replacing the cams as well??

My biggest question is . . . How do I ge the dealer to perform this as a warrantee effort??

Grey Ghost

[grc]

You are thinking along the sames lines as I am. I can't say definitely that there is no piston slap, but it sure doesn't sound like it. As for the lifter/pushrod replacement . . . going with S&S doesn't violate the warrantee?? And, you are recommending replacing the cams as well??

My biggest question is . . . How do I ge the dealer to perform this as a warrantee effort??

Grey Ghost

Warranty will not pay to install aftermarket parts in your engine, so you need to forget that.  Also, aftermarket parts installed in your engine can allow them to void the warranty on the engine if they can find some way to blame the aftermarket part for whatever failure may occur.  Even if you asked them to install Harley SE adjustable pushrods, warranty won't pay for that either.

If you have another dealership nearby, ask them to evaluate your engine noise.  Odds are you will get the same quick answer you got at the other place, but you won't know until you try.  Then contact H-D yourself, get the whole thing on record, and ask them to have their service rep (an actual H-D employee, not a dealership employee) evaluate the bike.  Get all these evaluations in writing, btw.


Jerry

[Grey Ghost]

Warranty will not pay to install aftermarket parts in your engine, so you need to forget that.  Also, aftermarket parts installed in your engine can allow them to void the warranty on the engine if they can find some way to blame the aftermarket part for whatever failure may occur.  Even if you asked them to install Harley SE adjustable pushrods, warranty won't pay for that either.

If you have another dealership nearby, ask them to evaluate your engine noise.  Odds are you will get the same quick answer you got at the other place, but you won't know until you try.  Then contact H-D yourself, get the whole thing on record, and ask them to have their service rep (an actual H-D employee, not a dealership employee) evaluate the bike.  Get all these evaluations in writing, btw.


Jerry

Thanks Jerry, Your points are well taken . . . Fortunately, there are 3 dealers within 30 miles. This is sort of a nice feeling . . . Pay upwards of $30,000 for a motorcycle just to have to deal with this sort of thing!!

[cahdbiker]

Greyghost, My 09 makes a noise between 2200-2800 that sounds like what you are describing.( I have ranted about this before). It is quiet below and above those rpms hot or cold, and sounds the same now as when it was brand new.   I recently bumped into a local HD mechanic in town who has worked on my bike. I brought up the noise issue with him and he said in most cases the noise I am hearing is going to be piston slap. So I asked him why and he said that it was because the design of the piston (piston skirt is very short). Since my bike has a very minimal oil consumtion there is no way I am going to have the pistons and rings replaced. I will live with the noise until it starts using oil. However, I did have a lifter bleed down twice while on vacation. Sounded like a bent pushrod for about 15 seconds both times then went away. Naturally it would not do it at the HD dealership. I had the same issue on an S&S 107 in my 95 Heritage and again most people would swear it was valve train noise, but when they, Bennett's in Long Beach, finally got it to sound like it was suppose to it was because they replaced the pistons and rings with the correct clearance. S&S couldn't seem to get it right. I did not have a good experience with their customer service.  Thankfully that was all under warranty. If I would have had a chance to test ride my bike before I cut the dealer a check I would have made them fix the noises or there would have been no deal. CAHDBIKER

[Grey Ghost]

Greyghost, My 09 makes a noise between 2200-2800 that sounds like what you are describing.( I have ranted about this before). It is quiet below and above those rpms hot or cold, and sounds the same now as when it was brand new.   I recently bumped into a local HD mechanic in town who has worked on my bike. I brought up the noise issue with him and he said in most cases the noise I am hearing is going to be piston slap. So I asked him why and he said that it was because the design of the piston (piston skirt is very short). Since my bike has a very minimal oil consumtion there is no way I am going to have the pistons and rings replaced. I will live with the noise until it starts using oil. However, I did have a lifter bleed down twice while on vacation. Sounded like a bent pushrod for about 15 seconds both times then went away. Naturally it would not do it at the HD dealership. I had the same issue on an S&S 107 in my 95 Heritage and again most people would swear it was valve train noise, but when they, Bennett's in Long Beach, finally got it to sound like it was suppose to it was because they replaced the pistons and rings with the correct clearance. S&S couldn't seem to get it right. I did not have a good experience with their customer service.  Thankfully that was all under warranty. If I would have had a chance to test ride my bike before I cut the dealer a check I would have made them fix the noises or there would have been no deal. CAHDBIKER

CAHDBIKER, Thanks you for your thoughts. The funny thing is, I did test ride this bike before buying. The noise started up in the 75 - 100 mile range on the odometer. You are the second person that mentions piston slap as a possible source of the noise. I will continue my dialogue with the dealer and checkout the other 2 dealers in the area for input, but like you will, in all likelyhood, ride this out until something more detrimental occurs.

[mjb765]

If I would have had a chance to test ride my bike before I cut the dealer a check I would have made them fix the noises or there would have been no deal. CAHDBIKER

That is unfortunately sad but true--and in my case--the exact same thing. My motor makes enough noise that sometimes I get as little worried. But as usual, the dealer says it's normal and all the 110's do that. I am ready to take a few hundred mile ride up to Hillside Cycle to get another opinion. There really is no shop close that I would trust to open it up.

[EZRIDN]

Something of a consideration here is that most people seem to use synthetic oil.  While the viscosity rating is supposed to be inherently similar to conventional, it seems thinner at any temperature.  Not knowing what oil is being used in your machines...it would be interesting to know if this tapping noise would be reduced by reverting back to a conventional oil...merely as a test.   It seems to me that when I switched to using synthetic, I noticed more pronounced tapping noises...maybe my imagination...but, have learned to accept it.

[grc]

PLEASE don't start that synthetic oil stuff again.  Trust me, the SYN3 in his engine is almost exactly the same viscosity as the HD360 dino oil - not just the SAE rating of 50 weight, but the actual viscosity measured in centistokes at 100°C (212°F).

Running thicker and thicker fluids to quiet noises isn't a good answer btw.  It tends to remind me of the old days when folks trying to peddle old clapped out cars or trucks would load up the trans and rear end with heavy gear oil or even grease, and load up the engine with that super thick STP.


Jerry

[EZRIDN]

PLEASE don't start that synthetic oil stuff again.  Trust me, the SYN3 in his engine is almost exactly the same viscosity as the HD360 dino oil - not just the SAE rating of 50 weight, but the actual viscosity measured in centistokes at 100°C (212°F).

Running thicker and thicker fluids to quiet noises isn't a good answer btw.  It tends to remind me of the old days when folks trying to peddle old clapped out cars or trucks would load up the trans and rear end with heavy gear oil or even grease, and load up the engine with that super thick STP.


Jerry

I was just throwing it out there reverting back to conventional as a test (maybe at next oil change)....not intending to bring up the heated lubrication debates in another thread....again.    

However, have you guys considered HD Owners tip #59 ?   Trust me...it works.




   

[mjb765]

PLEASE don't start that synthetic oil stuff again.  Trust me, the SYN3 in his engine is almost exactly the same viscosity as the HD360 dino oil - not just the SAE rating of 50 weight, but the actual viscosity measured in centistokes at 100°C (212°F).

Running thicker and thicker fluids to quiet noises isn't a good answer btw.  It tends to remind me of the old days when folks trying to peddle old clapped out cars or trucks would load up the trans and rear end with heavy gear oil or even grease, and load up the engine with that super thick STP.


Jerry

Hey Jerry.....Lets try Marvel Mystery oil and see if it helps