Topic: New Top End -- Power Coat and Diamond Cut -- for Old Road Glide (Read 5009 times)

Twolanerider · « **on:** May 24, 2020, 11:43:57 PM »

I mentioned this work in another thread and was asked more about it. Needing little excuse to put up pictures of the old bike here we go

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For it's 20th birthday I put a new top end on the old Road Glide. The bike had no issues, didn't leak, and gave signs of having no reason to mess with. So I messed with it anyway. A dozen years ago the only engine work it ever got was to swap on a set of heads from Brian Webb's 96" Road Glide (Los Dragon) and install a set of Mackie's 510 cams. The cams bumped the bottom end just a little. Earlier and slightly stronger. But never a big deal. That was it. Out of all the chit I've done to that bike that's all that was ever done to the engine. Until now.

Now it's TMan's 625 cams, his head work to match, cylinder work and pistons going to 98" and about 10.25:1. It's enough to make a significant change in the bike. The following is the (pictorial) story:

1) Cut the crap out of the engine to make room for the cams

Twolanerider · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2020, 11:44:23 PM »

Made a mess.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #2 on:** May 24, 2020, 11:44:50 PM »

But now the new cams fit!

Twolanerider · « **Reply #3 on:** May 24, 2020, 11:45:57 PM »

New cam plate, pump, etc...... Almost to the money shot...... (anticipa-a-tion, is making me wait).

Twolanerider · « **Reply #4 on:** May 24, 2020, 11:46:31 PM »

Comparison and contrast (and drool).

Twolanerider · « **Reply #5 on:** May 24, 2020, 11:47:29 PM »

As pretty inside as outside.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #6 on:** May 24, 2020, 11:49:01 PM »

All the inside. I did do one thing differently than the shop would have done on their own. Paid just a little extra not to use beehives. Beehive springs give me the heebee jeebees.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #7 on:** May 24, 2020, 11:50:33 PM »

More money shot.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #8 on:** May 24, 2020, 11:53:11 PM »

Because I hate now and have ALWAYS HATED manual compression releases had the shop cut the heads for automatic compression releases also. Wired in off the starter circuit. Jim talked me through a concern setting them up.

Did wire them with a toggle switch inline. Just in case. Fortunate I did that. In temps 80 or below so far they've not been necessary. Bike does have a high torque starter. Still nice to know they're there when needed on some hot weather hot engine day.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #9 on:** May 24, 2020, 11:54:12 PM »

More money shot. Just because I like it. Went with a dark red to very closely matches the Midnight Red that's a predominant color on the bike.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2020, 11:55:18 PM »

In the sunlight.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2020, 11:57:40 PM »

It was finished off with new Supermeg 2-1 from Supertrapp. Was tired of the very loud and over a decade old FatCats.

A little over 300 miles on these new pipes and they're growing on me. I was not completely happy with them during installation. Not sure I'd use them again. But they are growing on me. I definitely don't hate their sound.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #12 on:** May 24, 2020, 11:58:38 PM »

Ok. That's it. That's probably the most attention this old section of the site has received this decade.

GregKhougaz · « **Reply #13 on:** May 25, 2020, 12:05:31 AM »

The old girl is looking great!

Twolanerider · « **Reply #14 on:** May 25, 2020, 12:27:11 AM »

Quote from: GregKhougaz on May 25, 2020, 12:05:31 AM

The old girl is looking great!

Thanks Greg. I'm liking the look. It may be a bit "dated" by contemporary standards but it's a look I like. Hell, I'm a little dated so it makes sense.

The engine work has significantly changed the bike. As expected; but it's a significant change. The new cams come in later than did the little torquey 510s. The new cams pull a lot harder when you get on the cam profile though. And they pull a lot longer. It's about a 250-ish RPM difference. It's just about a one gear difference for most speeds. Definitely don't want to short-shift it now. I'm still occasionally shifting just a bit too early. A dozen years of habit on a bike will take a few miles to break.

On the highway at 75 is a sweet spot for it now in 6th gear. That's going to be nice. Engine noise drops down to that nice deep thrum that lets you know everything is happy. I'm still tinkering with the new exhaust. Adding discs or taking discs out. With the end versus without the end cap. It's a different sound than we're used to with the end cap on but its quieter. Probably (though not 100% sure yet) going to end up that way. To accomplish that I may need a few more than the 20 discs that come with it though. Chasing the tune of the exhaust is a bit of a tedious and subjective process.

All told I'm a happy camper. It runs well and sound healthy. It had enough miles on it that a top end refresh was justified too. Now just want to ride it more.

iski · « **Reply #15 on:** May 25, 2020, 12:52:33 AM »

Very nice!

Eqcons · « **Reply #16 on:** May 26, 2020, 09:46:57 AM »

Fantastic, Don!

Twolanerider · « **Reply #17 on:** May 26, 2020, 10:04:54 AM »

The Travel Gods have not been impressed with the engine work. Since just a couple days after it was done; rain. Then more rain. Today? Rain. Next two or three days? More rain. Urg.

naitram · « **Reply #18 on:** May 26, 2020, 10:28:57 AM »

looks good

Twolanerider · « **Reply #19 on:** May 26, 2020, 10:40:53 AM »

Quote from: naitram on May 26, 2020, 10:28:57 AM

looks good

Thanks Neal. Was fun to tinker with it some too. That bike has been dialed in so long it doesn't always get a lot attention anymore other than just using it.

J.D. · « **Reply #20 on:** May 26, 2020, 12:29:20 PM »

Looks awesome and bet runs awesome as well.

As always you do nice work.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #21 on:** May 26, 2020, 10:54:50 PM »

Got an excuse to post more. Chatting with a site member on the phone while driving home this afternoon what the new Supermeg sounds like. So did a video.

There's some "full disclosure" on this pipe though:

It didn't mount seamlessly. Had to space the mount bracket on the side of the transmission out about .375" to get the pipe to clear the transmission. Even then it was close enough I worked the inside of the upper pipe with a blunt cold chisel another 1/16" or so the full width of the tranny side cover just to be satisfied. And, yes, I dressed the metal nicely. It looks fine now.

In the rear where it hangs the muffler does not have threaded mounts welded on. Just square nuts in what seems to me a too flimsy cage. Loosening those sometime could see the square nuts spinning the housing and then you'd be pissed off. Took that same cold chisel and narrowed the cage around the square nuts some before install on mine. I really didn't like how it was out of the box.

Having said that; it's a good look pipe if you like 2-1 on a bagger. I was so tired of the 10+ year old FatCats. So freaking loud. These are better.

I've run them at 10 disc, 12 disc, and 14 disc with an open end cap. 12 seemed best. Still moderately loud that way. Not as loud as the FatCat but wanted to try an alternative. So tried all 20 discs that come with the pipe and a closed end cap. 12 open and 20 closed seemed to run about the same. Going to try this for awhile. It is quieter too. Not like modern bike built for EPA quiet. But much quieter than the old FatCats were. This is with 20 discs and the closed end cap. You can't tell in the video but the garage door is open.

Mikey · « **Reply #22 on:** May 27, 2020, 12:11:13 PM »

Nice Don,
You inspired me to do similar work on my 2003-103. I got rid of, dumped, or gave away the 2015 - 110 wet head! Lost more money than the bike was ever worth. I am sure I got a lemon cause if they were all like mine HD would be in financial trouble. Oh - I forgot they are!
Mikey

Twolanerider · « **Reply #23 on:** May 27, 2020, 02:40:14 PM »

Quote from: Mikey on May 27, 2020, 12:11:13 PM

Nice Don,
You inspired me to do similar work on my 2003-103. I got rid of, dumped, or gave away the 2015 - 110 wet head! Lost more money than the bike was ever worth. I am sure I got a lemon cause if they were all like mine HD would be in financial trouble. Oh - I forgot they are!
Mikey

I have REALLY wanted to see one of those done with the cylinders and heads done in a deep metallic gold powder coat to match the bike. Never saw one but have thought for years that, with the edges diamond cut, that would be a gorgeous bike. The heads and cylinders that way, framed by the gold bike frame, and surrounded by chrome rockers and silver motor top and bottom; it makes my special places tingle just thinking about it. That's an image that's been in my head for a long long time. Plus that 103 engine is still one of the best engines Harley ever made. It's worth putting some effort in.

The 103 that was in my 05 made great power after its build. It was a beast for its CI. So they can be made to sing if you want to. If you decide to dig in to it let me know. I've got some spare cylinders and heads you could use as cores to send off for powder coating and the other work to have pieces ready ahead of time before tearing yours down.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #24 on:** May 27, 2020, 02:48:26 PM »

Rode the Road Glide more this morning. Couple hours. It's finding its stride now. Sounds REALLY good. I'm sold on the closed end cap on the exhaust. Can hear the engine, can hear the radio, and it's still got a rumble if you twist the throttle.

And the engine sounds nice. Going from gear drive to new hybrid cam plate and the newer style tensioners changed the engine note. That was expected. The roller rockers that went in with this work make for a slightly different sound too. But this thing just hums right now when its on the cam and cruising. Harley is never going to "sound like a sewing machine." But this thing right now is really really smooth.

It's got a engine management/tuning kit installed from Revolution Performance called EMS. I've noticed the system dialing itself in over the first few miles. Over the first few minutes at idle and the first ten miles riding it took big swings. You could hear the changes sometimes. After that whatever is happening is more subtle. Whatever black arts are at work the engine has gotten to a place where it sound good, feels good and even smells good. All the tell tales seem right.

The bike was absolutely fine before doing all the work. No issues, no concerns, no worries, no leaks, and it had been absolutely reliable for years. So for its 20th birthday of course I messed with it. At this point I'm quite pleased I did. The bike seems to be as well.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #25 on:** May 27, 2020, 05:49:39 PM »

Just thought of something that should have mentioned on the Supertrap exhaust. Though I had my issues with it there is something that is really nice.

The Fatcats that I ran on two bikes and liked for many years would burn your leg if you weren't careful. I don't think it would be possible to burn yourself while in the saddle with this pipe. The routing is just great. It's nice not to have to always remember to be just a little bowlegged to avoid touching a hot pipe.

Yellow09SERG · « **Reply #26 on:** May 28, 2020, 09:32:56 PM »

That's a beautiful ride Don. Thinking you will be enjoying that new setup

Twolanerider · « **Reply #27 on:** May 28, 2020, 09:40:48 PM »

Quote from: Yellow09SERG on May 28, 2020, 09:32:56 PM

That's a beautiful ride Don. Thinking you will be enjoying that new setup

So far really am. It's smooth. Sounds and feels good. Only a couple of tank fulls of mileage on it yet. And nothing yet to really take it out and play with it. Got enough miles on it now though that can happen anytime. I'm actually really curious to see how its going to feel pulling the trailer.

Ironhorse · « **Reply #28 on:** May 28, 2020, 09:47:52 PM »

Tell me about the EMS tuner, does it replace the original M&M system? Is there a link to it?

d3v1ld0g · « **Reply #29 on:** May 28, 2020, 10:08:44 PM »

Sounds great. Any issues with the bike in general? I’m looking at buy 2000 serg myself. Thanks

Twolanerider · « **Reply #30 on:** May 28, 2020, 10:41:34 PM »

Quote from: Ironhorse on May 28, 2020, 09:47:52 PM

Tell me about the EMS tuner, does it replace the original M&M system? Is there a link to it?

Two separate things going on there Mark. A few years ago I started having Marelli issues that were compounded by parts getting harder and harder to come by. I was never a Marelli hater. It had its limitations but if one were familiar with and didn't go beyond its limitations it was fine. But parts availability and obsolescence issues are tough to get over if you're ever stuck on the side of the road or out of town somewhere. So I de-Marelli'd the bike and converted it to Delphi. 2005 vintage Delphi. Harness, ECU, gauges, battery tray, etc. Really not a bad job if one is so inclined. After the fact I wish I'd gone a generation newer and found 08 vintage parts. Could have done ABS also if I'd done that. But (as is often the case) I digress.

So the bike was changed to Delphi. Still had to do engine management though.

A long time ago, like a decade maybe, Revolution Performance came out with a kit called Precision EMS (engine management system). I like it a lot. Had it on my SEEG, did it on my Road King, and when did the Marelli to Delphi swap used it on the Road Glide. It's a surprisingly "smart" and flexible system that just makes its version of tuning easy.

Unfortunately the kit never took a strong hold in the aftermarket and after a few years marketing the package Revolution Performance allowed the package to fade way. That's still what's on my Road Glide now though. It makes for an interesting first start up after engine work.

This bike went from an almost stock 95" bike. Only internal difference was a small cam change that, itself, wasn't that much difference than the 203s it had out of the box. It now went to the 625 cams, fancy head work, a butt ton more compression, way different pipe, etc. Started the bike the first time and the system started taking big swings at compensation. You'd hear RPMs dance up and down, it surged and worked and gagged and probably even waddled a bit. Then it slowly began to even out. After seven or eight minutes of idling on the table lift it was butter smooth.

First ride saw it do a bit more adjusting on its own. You could feel it changing over the first 10 miles or so. After that any changes being made were subtle enough I couldn't notice them. All that got me to a point that the bike runs pretty much as I expect it to though.

Sure, I really good and expensive dyno tune could and no doubt would find me just a little bit more. Especially at the extremes. Tuning for numbers. But this was easy, took 10 minutes then 10 miles of my time, and the bike runs well. My Twin Tec tool tells me AFRs are spot on now. I'm happy. It's unfortunately not a package we can get anymore though.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #31 on:** May 28, 2020, 10:51:17 PM »

Quote from: d3v1ld0g on May 28, 2020, 10:08:44 PM

Sounds great. Any issues with the bike in general? I’m looking at buy 2000 serg myself. Thanks

I'm a big fan of the first generation SERGs. So I'd only be a proponent for anyone looking to keep one on the road and put it to use. Having said that there are a few things that age now dictates you know and be ready for.

As mentioned in the post previous the bikes used an ignition and induction system from Magnetti Marelli. Even when knew they could be a bit quirky. No real problem if you were familiar with them. But a little familiarity was your friend.

Now almost no one is familiar. Orphaned and more and more obsolete parts all the time. There are fixes though. You can convert it to a carburetor. Lots of M&M bikes have had that done and it's a good option. I prefer the fuel injection though so I sent that way. When / if the time ever comes you could do as I did and take a few months and score parts needed on eBay for cheap than take a long weekend and swap it all. There are also aftermarket harness and other options that create hybrids. I much prefer just swapping in the bits from a newer bike. It's all Harley and you could get it worked on anywhere. That's not the case with the aftermarket hybridized systems.

Aside from M&M issues the rest of the bike is pretty straightforward. The old swingarms occasionally twisted. If that ever happens you can swap in one from a newer bike. It's nearly bulletproof engine though. Great riding bikes. Nothing difficult or unusual about their regular maintenance. And they're great just to go knock down miles on.

If you found one you like and the price is right jump on it. If that bike is one that hasn't been used much in a long time count on the normal maintenance that any bike that has sat would need. Rubber stuff (tires, seals, etc) all deserve a strong look. Expect a little maintenance to become necessary as you put it back in to regular service. Once that's behind you though just ride the bitch. They're good bikes.

d3v1ld0g · « **Reply #32 on:** May 29, 2020, 11:24:22 AM »

Thanks. Great information to know.

Yellow09SERG · « **Reply #33 on:** May 30, 2020, 10:08:12 PM »

Looking like the weather may cooperate enough tomorrow for you to air her out a little.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #34 on:** May 30, 2020, 10:48:10 PM »

Quote from: Yellow09SERG on May 30, 2020, 10:08:12 PM

Looking like the weather may cooperate enough tomorrow for you to air her out a little.

Was absolutely perfect again today. Road King's turn yesterday. Road Glide today.

Had enough miles on it now that was willing to just lock the cruise control in on the highway and let it eat for awhile. Wanted to see how it would do on an extended run and what the fuel usage would be. Pleased with the day; really pleased.

Headed east on I-44 and locked the cruise at 75mph in 6th gear. At 135 miles out from the house was off and at a fuel stop then did exactly the same thing all the way home. Any wind in my face going east was behind me coming home.

The engine sounds great. It does just eat miles on the highway. Just a couple times I got on it to go around a semi. Did it from 6th once and dropped a gear the other time just to see how it'd feel. This cam likes being downshifted to for acceleration.

Filled up again at a station a mile from the house. 272 miles on the afternoon at 75 on the highway all day and the bike averaged an almost dead 40 mpg. I can live with that. Easily and happily live with that. Since this was its first extended run looked it over very closely once home. Spark plugs are gorgeous. Everything around the engine is absolutely dry. There's not even a hint of mist around the air filter or breather housing. Really couldn't ask for it be better behaved.

Twolanerider · « **Reply #35 on:** May 30, 2020, 11:58:28 PM »

Oh yeah, and whatever complaints I had about installing the SuperMeg exhaust, and however much I still don't like the square nut in an open cage for the rear mount that I'm almost sure will bite me in the ass someday on a future disassembly, I do like the bike in service.

Flat footed and it's not close to your leg. Nowhere near. No FatCat bowlegged hope-I-don't-burned dance at stop signs. The routing of the pipes is really nice. And even though I rarely play the radio while riding I did try it today just to see. Could actually hear AND understand the radio with it only at just over half volume. With the FatCats the radio was a wonderful way to fill the hole in the inner fairing.

Yellow09SERG · « **Reply #36 on:** May 31, 2020, 12:37:33 PM »

It will be fun when you get the chance to ride down 23 or 7 or any of those up down and around roads. You may really enjoy this new build then

Twolanerider · « **Reply #37 on:** May 31, 2020, 01:00:12 PM »

Quote from: Yellow09SERG on May 31, 2020, 12:37:33 PM

It will be fun when you get the chance to ride down 23 or 7 or any of those up down and around roads. You may really enjoy this new build then

Thought about that while on the bike yesterday. Cam profile is enough different that such riding will be more active. The smaller and ET (earlier torque) Mackie 510s were such that once you got to 2500 or so you really didn't have to shift. The new ones noticeably fall off the cam below 2600-2700-ish. So more engaged in most all normal riding and the top end pull farther than I'm almost ever going to go.

It's nice that it falls at just a place where you can lock it up in 6th gear at a comfortable highway speed and go all day. Or fall just below that and actually get to play a bit more. So far I'm thinking that's a win-win combination.

Author Topic: New Top End -- Power Coat and Diamond Cut -- for Old Road Glide (Read 5009 times)

J.D.