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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: grc on May 31, 2006, 07:40:43 PM
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The attachment is a sidebar by Donny Peterson in an article he did for American Iron about Twin Cam performance, July '06 issue. Thought it might interest a few folks here.
Jerry
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Wonder what they are considering to be "early 103 heads"? Does anyone know if the MoCo has changed the head design since 2003?
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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Can't attest to the earlier heads, but they are right on with the stock 05/06 heads. Replacing these with the CNC HTTC heads is the way to go. So, you buy a $30K bike an add $5K to make the engine work the way it should have from the factory (including pipes) and you have a CVO the way the factory should have done it. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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Man,
I could not agree more with you and that article. The first thing I did was the heads/pistons. I think it was close to 2,500 miles when I made mine more like what it should have been. For some strange reason, the particular HTCC heads I got, were not manufactured for the next year. My suspect is that in '04 they made the improvements to the heads, and pistons. Makes sense. Then in '05 I saw the part number back in the book, and now its gone. H-D#16934-02A CNC Ported HTCC Heads (Silver) and the pistons, I cannot find the part numbers, but they were the matched set for the heads. My dealer screwed up something, and ended up haveing to change out the jugs, so they did a overbore (.015) ,and matching pistons. I noticed a significant and major improvement. But when I did the .625 lift gear drive cams (700 miles later - money you know), and a few other minor goodies to the heads, I got the best gain realized. Everything just seemed to work perfectly together. I do have a reliable, faster and more powerful 103" than the factory original. Got dam emmissions.
The interesting thing I am looking foreward to is to see you all at the up comming rallys. Much fun wiith all that loose Torque running around. The wives are gonna' wish they stayed home... [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
NH
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I read the article and then called the guy. He said there are four different heads floating around on the CVO bikes. Some are decent and some not. He told me that the 06 heads were supposed to be decent and to have them ported versus changed. He says he ports in house and ports and polishes only for $700 canadian. I think I'll give bigboyz cycles in Maine a try since they do the same thing for $300 and are within an hour from me...
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ok I am gonna add my 2 cents and leave my opinions there.
The heads on our bikes suck plain as that. They do not flow at high velocity, you can port / polish them, you can open up the chambers, you can raise the floor you can shave off material for squish, you can build a squish band and in the end they still are less than adequate. I am going to tell you that if you want power from these heads there is 2 solutions so far from all the testing i have done and paid to have done. Those options are
1 weld them up
a. 1.94 intakes if you want torque
b. 2.0 intakes if you want more horsepower
2. Buy other heads that are not hemi designed.
These guys can promise all they want the most i have seen from the SE heads is 109 tq and 116 horsepower. For the money invested in learning this I would have rather gone down some other avenues.
-harry
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ok I am gonna add my 2 cents and leave my opinions there.
The heads on our bikes suck plain as that. They do not flow at high velocity, you can port / polish them, you can open up the chambers, you can raise the floor you can shave off material for squish, you can build a squish band and in the end they still are less than adequate. I am going to tell you that if you want power from these heads there is 2 solutions so far from all the testing i have done and paid to have done. Those options are
1 weld them up
a. 1.94 intakes if you want torque
b. 2.0 intakes if you want more horsepower
2. Buy other heads that are not hemi designed.
These guys can promise all they want the most i have seen from the SE heads is 109 tq and 116 horsepower. For the money invested in learning this I would have rather gone down some other avenues.
-harry
i have to agree with you on the heads.
you would be better off with the reg se performance heads that they use on the 95"
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Thanks Axe,
Its good to be getting active again if your in the Daytona Area or Sanford area let me know i am not far from the new Seminole HD.
-harry
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I also agree that our heads suck, well actually they dont, LOL, but it's easy for Donnie Peterson to bad mouth HD and wonder why they made these motors the way they did, but he doesn't have the EPA regulating everything he does. HD has proved they can build excellent race engines, they just haven't figured out how to do it street legal with a v-twin, air cooled, push rod motor. Or they know how, but don't feel the buying public would like the look or sound.
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Man,
I could not agree more with you and that article. The first thing I did was the heads/pistons. I think it was close to 2,500 miles when I made mine more like what it should have been. For some strange reason, the particular HTCC heads I got, were not manufactured for the next year. My suspect is that in '04 they made the improvements to the heads, and pistons. Makes sense. Then in '05 I saw the part number back in the book, and now its gone. H-D#16934-02A CNC Ported HTCC Heads (Silver) and the pistons, I cannot find the part numbers, but they were the matched set for the heads. My dealer screwed up something, and ended up haveing to change out the jugs, so they did a overbore (.015) ,and matching pistons. I noticed a significant and major improvement. But when I did the [highlight].625 lift gear drive cams [/highlight](700 miles later - money you know), and a few other minor goodies to the heads, I got the best gain realized. Everything just seemed to work perfectly together. I do have a reliable, faster and more powerful 103" than the factory original. Got dam emmissions.
The interesting thing I am looking foreward to is to see you all at the up comming rallys. Much fun wiith all that loose Torque running around. The wives are gonna' wish they stayed home... [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
NH
Nasty,
whose cams are you using????
Cheers
Aussie
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GC Super,
Could you please backup your comments with why you feel they don't suck. I have done the testing with 3 different people working these heads massaging them and all out new CNCing of them and they still were less than any htcc bathtub shaped out of the box. The hemi design was done for epa and unless you weld them up they suck, so I am interested in your retort to why you feel they don't suck LOL.
-harry
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, Gentlemen,
I was informed American Iron did an article with Neal Taylor on the Jim's 120, in the April, '06, issue. Can't find it. Anyone seen it? Please advise. BTW, before I built my 120, Tilley worked the Stock 88 Heads on Ol' Maudie. Tilley does a lot of Headwork for S&S, too. I've seen pallets full of 'em there. He fine tuned my Zipper's Heads, too. I'll try and get the spec's on 'em, and post. Later--HUBBARD
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Hey Harry, you mean all those advertisements for the 'hemi' that I see on TV are misguided? [smiley=confused5.gif] Har! ;D spyder
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Spidey,
NO NO lets not confuse the topics here. I am talking about Harleys in ability to make Hemi Designed heads for our Screaming Eagle Twin Cam Engines that are worth a chit from the factory or with work without welding them to imitate bathtub designs.
I am still waiting for GC to make his rebutle on why he feels they don't "SUCK" LOL. They have no squish, they make no torque and do not have any velocity in regards to air flow.
For the record I love my 350 HP Silver Steel R/T Charger :) Actually I was out looking today at the R/T 10 Pickup with the Viper Engine (500+) HP. I didnt fit in the Viper, so I test drove the truck today, just not sure I liked the ride it was a bit stiffer than I expected, so I am gonna heal up a bit more and re drive it.
Off topic again ohh well i blame the meds :)
-Harry
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Spidey,
NO NO lets not confuse the topics here. I am talking about Harleys in ability to make Hemi Designed heads for our Screaming Eagle Twin Cam Engines that are worth a chit from the factory or with work without welding them to imitate bathtub designs.
I am still waiting for GC to make his rebutle on why he feels they don't "SUCK" LOL. They have no squish, they make no torque and do not have any velocity in regards to air flow.
For the record I love my 350 HP Silver Steel R/T Charger :) Actually I was out looking today at the R/T 10 Pickup with the Viper Engine (500+) HP. I didnt fit in the Viper, so I test drove the truck today, just not sure I liked the ride it was a bit stiffer than I expected, so I am gonna heal up a bit more and re drive it.
Off topic again ohh well [highlight]i blame the meds [/highlight]:)
-Harry
Thaaaat's Right! It's what I always do! [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] har! [smiley=drink.gif] spyder
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Hey Harry, you mean all those advertisements for the 'hemi' that I see on TV are misguided? [smiley=confused5.gif] Har! ;D spyder
spyder,
Unfortunately, the Chrysler Hemi and the Harley hemi are two different animals. Only the overall shape of the combustion chamber is the same. Our heads have an off center spark plug and no squish band, so combustion is much less efficient than the Chrysler. Too bad H-D didn't do something about adding some turbulence to the air/fuel, and maybe do the dual plug thing like they did some time back with the Sportster.
Jerry
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, Gentlemen,
I was informed American Iron did an article with Neal Taylor on the Jim's 120, in the April, '06, issue. Can't find it. Anyone seen it? Please advise. BTW, before I built my 120, Tilley worked the Stock 88 Heads on Ol' Maudie. Tilley does a lot of Headwork for S&S, too. I've seen pallets full of 'em there. He fine tuned my Zipper's Heads, too. I'll try and get the spec's on 'em, and post. Later--HUBBARD
Hub,
American Iron had a tech article on the JIMS 120 in the May 2006 issue, page 56, but it wasn't with Neal. They had a fellow named Kenny Molenhouse from JIMS do the wrenching.
Jerry
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GC Super,
Could you please backup your comments with why you feel they don't suck. I have done the testing with 3 different people working these heads massaging them and all out new CNCing of them and they still were less than any htcc bathtub shaped out of the box. The hemi design was done for epa and unless you weld them up they suck, so I am interested in your retort to why you feel they don't suck LOL.
-harry
Harry, when I said they don't suck, I meant they don't perform very well. Just a misunderstanding.
Later, Robert
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GC,
No problem, I was hoping you were going to enlighten us to the hidden secret and save us all a bunch of money since our OCD is so strong.
-harry
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Man,
I could not agree more with you and that article. The first thing I did was the heads/pistons. I think it was close to 2,500 miles when I made mine more like what it should have been. For some strange reason, the particular HTCC heads I got, were not manufactured for the next year. My suspect is that in '04 they made the improvements to the heads, and pistons. Makes sense. Then in '05 I saw the part number back in the book, and now its gone. H-D#16934-02A CNC Ported HTCC Heads (Silver) and the pistons, I cannot find the part numbers, but they were the matched set for the heads. My dealer screwed up something, and ended up haveing to change out the jugs, so they did a overbore (.015) ,and matching pistons. I noticed a significant and major improvement. But when I did the .625 lift gear drive cams (700 miles later - money you know), and a few other minor goodies to the heads, I got the best gain realized. Everything just seemed to work perfectly together. I do have a reliable, faster and more powerful 103" than the factory original. Got dam emmissions.
The interesting thing I am looking foreward to is to see you all at the up comming rallys. Much fun wiith all that loose Torque running around. The wives are gonna' wish they stayed home... [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
NH
Are you running S&S 625 cams ? how much torque and hp are they making ..do you have a dyno from them just curious as iam ready to dump my 400 woods cams..and am kinda in limbo on the next cam choice i was thinking 625 640's or zipppers 657 or 647's???