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[hd-dude]

Last week I installed my FCC9 Freedom cams into my SEEG. The bike ran ok with the map provided by Freedom but had some hesitation off the line. Once going though it pulled really well and felt like the bike was much lighter. I wanted to have the bike Dynoed by a third party to be sure of the numbers that Freedom Cycles were showing were real as the only dyno's any of us have seen on their products have been from them. I took my bike to RC Cycles today to have them put it to the test and the results on the initial run were ok but the af ratio was rich in all but the mid rpm range. Base readings were 95.03 HP and 109.02 TQ. After 2.5 hours of tweeking the final results were 103.62 HP and 115.82 TQ. These #'s are SAE CORRECTED!! The torque begins at about 90 ft/lbs at 2k and peaks at 115ish at about 4k.

One thing that is interesting is that the maps that Freedom uses are not "advanced" maps meaning that the mapping is the same for both cylinders. RC promotes the standard map to advanced which allows the PC to adjust fuel and timing for each cylinder like the Race Tuner.

The bottom line is the bike feels like it went on the Atkins diet for about a year and shed a couple of hundred pounds.

Specs? we don't need no stinkin' specs....These cams work [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

Here's the Sheet.......

[AUSSIE_FLSTFSE]

Crikey, those numbers are great!
I think it would be fair to say the A motors make at least 5% more power & 10% more torque than the B motors.

Cheers
Aussie

[DCFIREMANN]

I took my bike to RC Cycles today to have them put it to the test and the results on the initial run were ok but the af ratio was rich in all but the mid rpm range. Base readings were 95.03 HP and 109.02 TQ. After 2.5 hours of tweeking the final results were 103.62 HP and 115.82 TQ. These #'s are SAE CORRECTED!! The torque begins at about 90 ft/lbs at 2k and peaks at 115ish at about 4k.

One thing that is interesting is that the maps that Freedom uses are not "advanced" maps meaning that the mapping is the same for both cylinders. RC promotes the standard map to advanced which allows the PC to adjust fuel and timing for each cylinder like the Race Tuner.

The bottom line is the bike feels like it went on the Atkins diet for about a year and shed a couple of hundred pounds.

Specs? we don't need no stinkin' specs....These cams work [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

Here's the Sheet.......

HD those are GREAT NUMBERS!!!! I am not going to start the spec war again we have been through it tooooo many times.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[hd-dude]

HD those are GREAT NUMBERS!!!! I am not going to start the spec war again we have been through it tooooo many times.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Not trying to start a spec war, I know its been debated before and I can agree that Freedom should give up some info some these cams. My comment was more "tongue and cheek" than anything. I debated in my head for a few weeks between these and the 575's before deciding to got his route. The higher numbers reported by the FCC cams is was swayed my decision.

Thanks for the compliments!

[CVOJOE]

Great numbers Jim! I think most of us here are just curious about the spec. differences between the various cam offerings and then seeing the performance results. Eventually someone will get the measured numbers from the Freedom cams and put them out there for all to see and compare. Whatever they are, as long as it makes the OCD performance desire happy, it's all good.

Ride on!
Joe

[sanjoseduke]

Jim

Glad to see you finally installed the cam. Great numbers. How do like the performance?

SanJoseDuke

[hd-dude]

Jim

Glad to see you finally installed the cam. Great numbers. How do like the performance?

SanJoseDuke

So far so good [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]. No real miles on her yet. I'm going to try to get out some this weekend.

[Fired00d]

Jim,
Those numbers look awesome, but to top it all off as you stated it "feels good" in the seat of the pants. When it's all said and done, anything that wakes these motors up to their full potential makes them so much more fun to ride.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Screamin_Beagle]

You friggen guys are killing me.....now I'm gettin the urge to go fast again.......I gotta start spending less time here,  everytime I think I'm done spending money......someone starts another thread and gets me thinking.......hey wouldn't that be fun on my bike.......Is there a 12 step program for OBD (obsessive bike disorder..)....I neeed a  [smiley=drink.gif]

[hd-dude]

You friggen guys are killing me.....now I'm gettin the urge to go fast again.......I gotta start spending less time here,  everytime I think I'm done spending money......someone starts another thread and gets me thinking.......hey wouldn't that be fun on my bike.......Is there a 12 step program for OBD (obsessive bike disorder..)....I neeed a  [smiley=drink.gif]

The 12 steps...
1. Stage 1 Ac kit
2. Exhaust
3. Your choice of fuel management device
4. Dyno tune
5. Cams
6. Dyno tune
7. Head work
8. Dyno Tune
9. Bigger Cams
10. Dyno Tune
11. More Cubic Inches
12. Get over it....admit that you can't be cured

[UK Dave]

The 12 steps...
1. Stage 1 Ac kit - Yep
2. Exhaust - Yep
3. Your choice of fuel management device - PCIII - Yep
4. Dyno tune - - 3.5 hours worth... - Yep
5. Cams - Hmm - thinking about it...
6. Dyno tune - Natch
7. Head work Hmmm - resisting - but possible I s'pose...
8. Dyno Tune - natch again
9. Bigger Cams - Gasp
10. Dyno Tune - Uggh
11. More Cubic Inches - Oh No!!!
12. Get over it....admit that you can't be cured  - Ain't that the truth?

D@mn - I love this site

Cheers

Dave

[tunedse2]

Jim, Have you had head work done? Could you list the whole upgrade you have done to get those numbers.

[hd-dude]

Jim, Have you had head work done? Could you list the whole upgrade you have done to get those numbers.

The only engine mods I have done are:
Freedom cycles Exhaust, (basically Rienharts), Stage 1 Ac, Power Commander PCIII (stock ECM), Freedom FCC9 Cams, Andrews Pushrods, Baisley oil bypass spring.

[tunedse2]

I ask this question with all do respect to both vendors, What is the reason the Freedom Cams are posting so much higher numbers? I have seen all the 575 dyno sheets posted and they arent even close. Is there a reliability difference?

[hd-dude]

The number between the two are not that far off, HP is about the same TQ is about 7-10 difference. These are on the "a" motors. The "b" motors seem to be posting lower numbers with the 575 cams. I don't think anyone has tried the Freedoms in the "b" motors for a comparison.

Any given Dyno on any given day can vary. There are soooo many variables to consider. These sheets are just for keyboard drag racing. And the Dyno is just a "tuning" tool. Don't read tooo much into them.

As far as reliability, No there should not be any difference as neither is bumping compression. Both cams need to stay in the confines of the stock 103 head limitations.

[Skippy620]

h-d
Numbers look great. I'm very interested in doing the same package myself.
But, Freedom advertises a "turn key" package with the Power Command already to go (completly mapped to the max).
With the problem that you uncovered (the Power Commander not correctly mapped) have you contacted Freedom and discussed the issue ?
Are they willing to stand behind the problem and make it right?
I would be interested in their responce before I place my order
My HD dealer isn't set-up to remap a Power Commander
Thanks

[hd-dude]

h-d
Numbers look great. I'm very interested in doing the same package myself.
But, Freedom advertises a "turn key" package with the Power Command already to go (completely mapped to the max).
With the problem that you uncovered (the Power Commander not correctly mapped) have you contacted Freedom and discussed the issue ?
Are they willing to stand behind the problem and make it right?
I would be interested in their responce before I place my order
My HD dealer isn't set-up to remap a Power Commander
Thanks

The map was quite a bit off. I have not contacted them about the issue but I will be doing that.  I have had several maps from them for several different configurations and this is the first one that I knew was not quite right. For what its worth I installed the same map in AK's (from this site) SEEG with the pipes and FCC9 cams and his runs very well. I will also offer to provide the map the was made on my SEEG for anyone to try.

As far as standing behind their products I have had first hand experience with problems that have occurred with their stuff and they have always been right there to take care of it. I recently noticed that my 1 1/2 year old pipe bracket (the one on the side on the tranny for the front header) had a crack in it. I called them and asked for a replacement to be sent to me fully expecting to pay for it. They would not hear of me paying for it even thought it was old. A new one was on my doorstep via Fedex the next morning. I had a broken rear pipe once as well, same thing, next day I had a new one. There have been other items that other members have had and they have been taken care of in the same manner.

[Unbalanced]

HD-Dude,

Numbers and curve look great congrats.  You know though since the cams were sent to you, and you had them installed you could have had them spec'd heheh .... (just a bit more of tongue and cheek).

Glad its running great.   Have you had time to take it to the mountains yet or long cruises yet?  If so, any feedback?

Thanks,

-harry

[hd-dude]

HD-Dude,

Numbers and curve look great congrats.  You know though since the cams were sent to you, and you had them installed you could have had them spec'd heheh .... (just a bit more of tongue and cheek).

Glad its running great.   Have you had time to take it to the mountains yet or long cruises yet?  If so, any feedback?

Thanks,

-harry

I would have like to have them spec'd but quite honestly I don't have the skills or the tools to do so. I don't have many miles yet to report, but what I have feels really strong. I have noticed that while on the freeway when I would downshift to 4th to pass I now have the power to do it without a downshift. The around the town stuff is great as well.

PS; How are you feeling?

[Unbalanced]

I am really glad your bike is running well that is all that really matters in each persons own personal opinion of worth of the work / expenditure.

To answer your question about how I am while it is probably not the right forum here, but since you asked.   I am doing much better I just got home from the Orthopedic with what i consider good / bad news.

The good news is he wants me to start walking there was no try in his verbage, but does not want me in any type of brace.   What he told me was the titanium is stronger than your bones and he chuckled.   I am sure glad i have a fresh supply of pain meds I feel I am gonna need em for a few weeks.

All in all healing quicker than most ever expected even the doctor was suprised at how far my leg has come (cheating ... i been in my pool stretching).

Thanks for asking and I look forward to a more indepth report as you put some more miles on it.

All the Best,

-harry

[WaSEEG]

The map was quite a bit off. I have not contacted them about the issue but I will be doing that.  I have had several maps from them for several different configurations and this is the first one that I knew was not quite right. For what its worth I installed the same map in AK's (from this site) SEEG with the pipes and FCC9 cams and his runs very well. I will also offer to provide the map the was made on my SEEG for anyone to try.

As far as standing behind their products I have had first hand experience with problems that have occurred with their stuff and they have always been right there to take care of it. I recently noticed that my 1 1/2 year old pipe bracket (the one on the side on the tranny for the front header) had a crack in it. I called them and asked for a replacement to be sent to me fully expecting to pay for it. They would not hear of me paying for it even thought it was old. A new one was on my doorstep via Fedex the next morning. I had a broken rear pipe once as well, same thing, next day I had a new one. There have been other items that other members have had and they have been taken care of in the same manner.

I'm on the road with basically the setup you have but with the stock Freedom map.  I'm interested in trying your map as I'm getting some backfiring around 3000 rpm when I chop the throttle.  If I try to roll it back on It bogs on me.  Nothing critical but annoying.  I have a laptop with me with with the Power Commander software loaded so it should only take a few moments to load the new map, if the offer is still open.  I'll PM you my office e mail address which I can access from anywhere.  

Thanks
Dan

[hd-dude]

I'm on the road with basically the setup you have but with the stock Freedom map.  I'm interested in trying your map as I'm getting some backfiring around 3000 rpm when I chop the throttle.  If I try to roll it back on It bogs on me.  Nothing critical but annoying.  I have a laptop with me with with the Power Commander software loaded so it should only take a few moments to load the new map, if the offer is still open.  I'll PM you my office e mail address which I can access from anywhere.  

Thanks
Dan

Dan;
The map has been sent. I hope it works well for you.

[Canuck]

Hey Jim,

If it's not too much trouble, could I also get a copy of the map.  As you know, I have had much of the same work done to mine.  Sometimes the bike does not start on the first try and I have to give it a second.  I am interested in seeing if your map would make a difference.

Thanks

Canuck

[hd-dude]

Hey Jim,

If it's not too much trouble, could I also get a copy of the map.  As you know, I have had much of the same work done to mine.  Sometimes the bike does not start on the first try and I have to give it a second.  I am interested in seeing if your map would make a difference.

Thanks

Canuck

its not a problem at all, but the 06 bikes have a different throttle body so i'm not sure it would be an exact match. PM me your email address and i'll send it to you. You can always put the other map back if its better

[WaSEEG]

Dan;
The map has been sent. I hope it works well for you.

Jim

I received the map and installed it yesterday morning before we left Montrose, Colo for Santa Fe.  My initial impression is that I like it.  The bogging and hesitation is much improved although not totally eliminated.  Gas mileage improved and low end power has increased.  Power throughout the rest of the power band remains good.  Interestingly enough I do not have the rev extender feature installed and I was concerned about that but the stock Freedom map had values plugged in for RPM over the stock limit so I installed it just to see what would happen.  I did attract quite a crowd outside the motel as I was installing the map.  People couldn't get over the fact that you could tune a H-D using a laptop.

It's difficult to compare the two maps as yours is much more comprehensive.  There are some significant differences particularly  at the "0" throttle position.  I ran a map compare last evening and most of the values were different, some significantly so.  Pam, who rides behind me said my bike appeared smoother and "happier".  I agree.

Thanks again
Dan

[hd-dude]

Jim

I received the map and installed it yesterday morning before we left Montrose, Colo for Santa Fe.  My initial impression is that I like it.  The bogging and hesitation is much improved although not totally eliminated.  Gas mileage improved and low end power has increased.  Power throughout the rest of the power band remains good.  Interestingly enough I do not have the rev extender feature installed and I was concerned about that but the stock Freedom map had values plugged in for RPM over the stock limit so I installed it just to see what would happen.  I did attract quite a crowd outside the motel as I was installing the map.  People couldn't get over the fact that you could tune a H-D using a laptop.

It's difficult to compare the two maps as yours is much more comprehensive.  There are some significant differences particularly  at the "0" throttle position.  I ran a map compare last evening and most of the values were different, some significantly so.  Pam, who rides behind me said my bike appeared smoother and "happier".  I agree.

Thanks again
Dan

Glad it works for you, My PCIII does have the rev extend installed so I would recommend adding it to yours as the map I gave you is set up for it.

good luck

[Skippy620]

hd-dude
I'm just about ready to roll over 1000 mile 06 SEUC. So I'm ready to contact my dealer and make my first service appointment.
While it's at the dealership, my dealer will call Freedom and get the Performance Stage #2 package with the FC9 cams for my bike.
My question, what is fair in the terms of hours to do the total install, mainly the cams.
My dealer has always been very reasonable with me installing all my chrome goodies, but I'd just like to check with someone who's done the install with Freedoms instructions.
Also should I schedule a run on their dyno before I bring it home just to double check Freedoms final tune ?
Just trying to avoid sticker shock when I pick up the bike
Thanks  

[hd-dude]

Skippy620;
I'm not sure what you mean buy the "Performance Stage #2 package " but I assume its the pipes, AC, PCIII, Cams, pushrods, etc. I would not get the AC kit from Freedom as they only provide the SE kit with the POS paper filter element. See the "roll your own" thread for the parts you need for the stage 1 AC kit. The install should take about 4 hours for the cams and an hour or so for the exhaust. I would say 4-6 hours for the whole job.

As far as the Dyno run, yes I would do it. The map from Freedom should get you close but a good tuner can do much better, specifically if they tune each cylinder independently. Each motor is a bit different as well.

Best of luck with the setup, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

[Canuck]

Hey Jim,
"This is your inner voice talking to you.  COME TO C.C. - COME TO C.C.- COME TO C.C."
  [smiley=devil.gif]

[hd-dude]

Hey Jim,
"This is your inner voice talking to you.  COME TO C.C. - COME TO C.C.- COME TO C.C."
  [smiley=devil.gif]

I know, I know.....It is with great regret that I am going . There is always next year 8-)