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[Twolanerider]

and you will sign a form stating you won't modify the motor.

So Harley Davidson is now wearing a badge and functioning as an agent of the State?  Even assuming that HDI doesn't actively enforce the behavior on the dealerships this throws a completely new and different wrinkle on the impact of these bikes on the resale value of the prior model machines.  Can already see the aftermarket's new advertising campaign pitching product to the "Open Access pre-2007" motorcycle and preaching the free spirit of the men and women who dare to ride them in the face of an intrusive Motor Company and an overarching government.  Not only will the aftermarket adjust to any new regulations but Harley just handed them a free pass to greater market share within the existing market.

[DCFIREMANN]

So Harley Davidson is now wearing a badge and functioning as an agent of the State?  Even assuming that HDI doesn't actively enforce the behavior on the dealerships this throws a completely new and different wrinkle on the impact of these bikes on the resale value of the prior model machines.  Can already see the aftermarket's new advertising campaign pitching product to the "Open Access pre-2007" motorcycle and preaching the free spirit of the men and women who dare to ride them in the face of an intrusive Motor Company and an overarching government.  Not only will the aftermarket adjust to any new regulations but Harley just handed them a free pass to greater market share within the existing market.

No not Harley,your dealer will have this EPA FORM for you!!!!! Did you notice how the MOCO will not be selling any exhaust systems except for stock replacements!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[RedFXR2]

I don't know how HD can require some form stating "I, the undersigned, will not alter the motor..."

But I'm already wondering about the alter-ability of the 2007's.  Early this year, my local dealer told me that for the 2006 models, there were only a few, HD package deals of mechanical upgrades the dealers would do.  Both the 95" and 103" kits were available but only as part of a package which included cams (rather mild cams, I might add) and that the exhausts must either remain stock or include a set of HD dealer-only pipes that used a catalyst.  He showed me the paperwork from HD with the parts lists and all.  There was no more parts picking and choosing and a whole lot of other hi-perf parts were going away (from HD, anyway).

However, you could still go wild with your 2005 or earlier motor, depending on what parts HD still offered for earlier TC's.

So now it's 2007 and HD's come from the factory with bigger engines.  Does anybody know what the dealers will be allowed to do to them?  Are the Feds and EPA going to start sniffing the pipes of 2007's?

Maybe HD is figuring that folks won't want to mess with a motor that's already bigger, but we all know how that goes.

[grc]

The 110 inch heads will be the same casting as the 103 and the new motor will have a cat muffler and [highlight]you will sign a form stating you won't modify the motor[/highlight]. The motors still need to meet EPA specs and 2007 is tougher than 2006. I will have to check on the throttle body. I would think it may stay the same to meet emissions. Not only are the new CVO's ugly the rules suck tooooo.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Dawg,

What happens if I sign the form and then modify the motor anyway?  Will a truck & trailer with a big bar & shield on the side roll up to my house and wisk the bike away? [smiley=nervous.gif] Sounds a little like the bs form the Dyna buyers had to sign in '06 concerning the 15k trans bearing replacement - CYA for the MoCo. Obviously they've been spending too much on lawyers.

I'm 99.9% certain that one thing we will see is that the MoCo will only sell EPA approved performance packages.  They seem to have finally taken the anti-tampering portion of the law seriously.  Of course, that really doesn't mean a whole lot to the average Harley rider, since there is a ton of stuff in the aftermarket, much of which is better than what H-D offered anyway.  Early buyers may have to wait awhile for the aftermarket folks to gear up for the new engine configurations, but gear up they will.

Jerry

[RedFXR2]

Early this year, my local dealer told me that for the 2006 models, there were only a few, HD package deals of mechanical upgrades the dealers would do.  Both the 95" and 103" kits were available but only as part of a package

I'm 99.9% certain that one thing we will see is that the MoCo will only sell EPA approved performance packages.

I should have mentioned that my dealer told me the same thing--the packages were approved by the EPA.

I would imagine that the aftermarket, if not HD, will soon come up with parts that will up the performance, but still comply with emissions requirements.

Still, IMO, it does give the owner of a '05 or older a bit of a reason to keep their bike for a while longer--if they want to modify it, that is.

[Twolanerider]

No not Harley,your dealer will have this EPA FORM for you!!!!!

Though that makes them the State's agent.  Perhaps no more than is a retailer for collecting the various taxes on products purchased.  But an agent nonetheless.  Of course the real questions will be enforcement and acquiescence to changes requested anyway.  It's still a boost for the aftermarket and prior models.

[arcticdude]

All of this emission's stuff is really a mute point anyway.  Since 1979 it's been illegal to tamper with ANY emissions related items; ie: cams, exhaust, intake/air cleaner, etc.  I don't think anybody has been worried so far.  How many of us have done just what has been illegal for 26 years?!?!?  The practical side is that the EPA and the local states don't have the manpower to truly enforce this law.  The latest American Motorcyclist has a very good article speaking directly to this very subject.  It essentially tells us that the latest laws actually may OPEN up some of the former restrictions.  The moco may not sell any "07" and later performace parts, but has the header pipe diameter changed??  How about the air cleaner fitment???  Since the cam bearings are now single piece as opposed to roller, it will take a while before the after market catches up- but the journal sizes may not have changed, so only hardening of the current cam selections may be needed to make them compatible with the 07's.  So who's to say if I buy an exhaust to fit my "03" and end up putting it on my 07?  Just stirring the pot a little. 8-)

[firegabe]

so here is a good question for you all...     since I added the 6spd to my bike uppon purchase! (this allegedly will also include the new trans in my 7 year ext. warr.  
  they did not ask me to sign anything about 15K, bearrings.  !!!???

[hd-dude]

so here is a good question for you all...     since I added the 6spd to my bike uppon purchase! (this allegedly will also include the new trans in my 7 year ext. warr.  
  they did not ask me to sign anything about 15K, bearrings.  !!!???

Gabe;
The 15k Bearing issue was only with the 06 Dyna models. Not to worry, And yes since you had the trannyinstalled at purchase it will be covered under warranty.

[DCFIREMANN]

Though that makes them the State's agent.  Perhaps no more than is a retailer for collecting the various taxes on products purchased.  But an agent nonetheless.  Of course the real questions will be enforcement and acquiescence to changes requested anyway.  It's still a boost for the aftermarket and prior models.

Don in Maryland we sign the from NOW!!!!! But there is no enforcement. Unless they start emissions tests on motorcycles as of this year I don't know how they can enforcement the law.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

Dawg,

What happens if I sign the form and then modify the motor anyway?  Will a truck & trailer with a big bar & shield on the side roll up to my house and wisk the bike away? [smiley=nervous.gif] Sounds a little like the bs form the Dyna buyers had to sign in '06 concerning the 15k trans bearing replacement - CYA for the MoCo. Obviously they've been spending too much on lawyers.

I'm 99.9% certain that one thing we will see is that the MoCo will only sell EPA approved performance packages.  They seem to have finally taken the anti-tampering portion of the law seriously.  Of course, that really doesn't mean a whole lot to the average Harley rider, since there is a ton of stuff in the aftermarket, much of which is better than what H-D offered anyway.  Early buyers may have to wait awhile for the aftermarket folks to gear up for the new engine configurations, but gear up they will.

Jerry

Jerry again it's not the MOCO it's the EPA aka THE FEDS!!!! It's a from you will sign when you take delivery. I don't know how they can enforcement the law.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[RedFXR2]

I don't know how they can enforcement the law.

I think enforcement would be easy.  Just like with cars in many states, all they have to do is require passing an annual emissions test in order to gain the annual vehicle registration.  Fail the test--no tag.

I figure that's what's coming.  Just a matter of time.  Since HD only offered EPA approved package upgrades for 2006, I'm guessing they know it's coming soon.

[Twolanerider]

Don in Maryland we sign the from NOW!!!!! But there is no enforcement. Unless they start emissions tests on motorcycles as of this year I don't know how they can enforcement the law.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

I understand that Dawg.  And please don't confuse concern for amusement on my part.  Quite frankly I'm not at all bothered by the fact that Harley may be self-legislating itself out of a lot of the upgrade market.  The aftermarket will quickly tool up to fill any void and will do a good job of it.  The automotive environment teaches us that.  

Also, since so many of the Harley shops do such a bad job of mixing and matching "performance upgrades" with the variety options they've had before if those shops are now left with the only options being 1) do nothing or 2) use only approved "kits" the bike owners who have to trust that those dealerships know what they're doing will now be a lot better served.  Dumbing down the process will make it a lot easier for the dealerships to avoid the mistakes they so commonly make.

[Ceej]

The thing that will get this enforced is $$$$$ - 15k fine for any modification - means no shops will do this work once they start sending out undercover "Customers" - you know the states and feds will go after these $$$$$$'s  :-?

[Fired00d]

"Undercover Customers"....

Is this like a "Secret Shopper". Hmm, will the MoCo supply you with a new bike of your choice to ride and try to have modified? If so this may be a job for me as I'm getting close to retirement. 8-)

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]