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[Chief2505]

I am new here and have been doing a lot of reading on the forum. I have come to realize that after spending big $ on a new Harley that there are several things one must do.

1.   Tear down the engine and replace the internal parts with other than HD parts.
2.   Take out the HD sound system and replace it with aftermarket parts.
3.   Replace the expensive stock suspension with aftermarket parts.
4.   Now you have a great bike but no warranty!

Harley has built its reputation on the V-Twin but reading through the forum it strikes me that what should be the MoCo biggest asset is actually its worst product. I have read over and over all of the problems that these big twin engines have. I have owned 6 HD motorcycles from the fuel injected EVO in my 96 classic to the 110 in my 13 CVO. I have not spent money to increase the horsepower on any of these bikes. No matter what I do to them they still will not be a crotch rocket. Stock horsepower has always suited me fine.

The only engine I had trouble with was the 103 in my 12 firefighter Ultra. But in all fairness that entire bike was junk from day one. Rear brakes squeal, security system issues, turn signal issues, first gear sounded like it was a siren, starter and start button issues, excessive heat, poor gas mileage not to mention an engine that sounded like a diesel at idle, at 2200 rpm and again at 2800 rpm.  Of course I was told all these things were normal and they all do that. The dealer was worthless when it came to fixing the engine and transmission. Everything else they eventually got around to fixing though. When I traded that bike in, and believe me I did not want another 103 if they all were like this one and I was lead to believe that they were. But I was not crazy giving another 20 grand to the MoCo to get rid of a bike that I felt they did not want to fix. But I hated that bike so much that I finally relented and traded it in.

The dealer principal told me he was not going to resell my 12 bike. He wanted it out of his hair. That upset me and told me he knew that engine had trouble but would not do anything about it. A few weeks after picking up my CVO I stopped at the dealer for some chrome and the sales guy stops to talk to me. He asks how I like the screaming eagle and goes on to say the guy that bought my old bike really likes it. They had to do some work to it to get it running right but he really likes it. I simply smiled and replied well they would not work on it when I owned it and that is why I do not have any service work performed here any longer.

Long story short, that one poorly built bike and the poor service I received on it cost this dealer a customer and it would have cost the MoCO a customer too if I could have found a different make that I liked.
I know this is long and I have rambled on.

My ultimate question is this:

Why do we continue to spend big dollars on a machine that the company does not care about the quality of its product, most times will not stand behind it without a fight, and all of these problems are well documented? The product is outdated and behind on technology, is made with the cheapest foreign parts and has poor customer service.

Why do we keep coming back for more?

I have my theories but am I curious to hear what others think.

[Twolanerider]

My ultimate question is this:

Why do we continue to spend big dollars on a machine that the company does not care about the quality of its product, most times will not stand behind it without a fight, and all of these problems are well documented? The product is outdated and behind on technology, is made with the cheapest foreign parts and has poor customer service.

Why do we keep coming back for more?

Not all of us do....

[CVO Brian]

Ive owned several and have logged well over 150K miles on Harley Touring Bikes in my 48 years of life. Been on a Harley since age of 23. And I have never had a single issue. Just traded in a 08 Ultra Classic with 30K miles that I loved to buy this 12 CVO Ultra that I love even more. Sorry for your bad luck with the MOCO. But out of the millions of bikes they build  I guess someone out there will not be happy.

AS far as Radio- Stock is not so good, but love my CVO SYstem. Hear my AC DC loud and clear at 80MPH
Suspension- Well I think it depends on were you live, Im a flat road rider and have no issues here in Florida, I will say, it could have been better in the hills of Sturgis but I dont live there so Im fine.
Motor- Yes the 110 is a little hot, but get it tuned and let it breath and you will find plenty of power.

People here will say, oh your lucky. But considering there are only a thousand or so memebers on this site ( not sure about the member count ) as opposed to the millions of Harley riders and hundreds of thousand CVO riders out there I think NOT. I was just in Sturgis and there were well over 500K bikes and the 7 days I was there and over a thousand miles ridden, I never saw one bike on the side of the road broken down.

Don't give up on HD Chief. And I think you know why you and others keep comming back the second you hit that start button.

[Fired00d]

Not all of us do....

X2... mine will be 10 model years old in a few days.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[110tHunDer]

 

My ultimate question is this:

Why do we continue to spend big dollars on a machine that the company does not care about the quality of its product, most times will not stand behind it without a fight, and all of these problems are well documented? The product is outdated and behind on technology, is made with the cheapest foreign parts and has poor customer service.

Why do we keep coming back for more?

I think you answered your own question:

... if I could have found a different make that I liked.

[North Georgia Hawg]

I think you answered your own question:

The new Indians may change the minds of some of us...

Quite honestly, I think the real reason I bought into the whole Harley mystique was to satisfy my middle-age male ego "crisis" more than anything else. There - I said it - My name is Ken and I am a Harleyholic. ("Hi, Ken...")


But the experience has been much more rewarding than a simple ego massage...

I LOVE motorcycles and have since I was a kid - and I have had more than a few metrics in my day. I had been off of bikes for a good while, since my ex really hated them and thought they were dangerous (and they are). I acquiesced to her wishes while my kids were growing up and I did the "responsible parent" gig... but trading a part of my soul in the process for their sakes. I don't regret doing that, but now I am in MY time with Mary, and things are different in our lives. I will no longer makes those sacrifices, as I feel that I have done my financial duty as a parent and provider. Mary feels the same about her three grown children.

As much as I enjoyed my less-expensive but much-higher-performing metrics... there just something about a Harley that gets me going. Maybe it's the look, the beautiful paint, the styling, the wonderful sound and rumbling, the CHROME!, REALLY GOOD MARKETING on the part of the MoCo... or perhaps simply my male ego. I don't know.

But I will say that since we bought my first Harley, I have met a LOT of really nice folks via the various forums - plus a select few who turned out to not be so nice and who I have cut out of my life permanently. Life is just TOO SHORT to tolerate "jerks living rent-free in your head", as a friend of mine likes to put it!

There is an interesting brotherhood/sisterhood social dynamic in the Harley ridership that frankly I never experienced with the metrics. Of course, the availability of Internet forums such as CVOHarley have done wonders to enable the sort of social behavior we see now. We didn't have that kind of communication capability back in the '70s when I began riding. So perhaps that same sort of social dynamic happens in other brands' riderships, too. I don't know, and frankly I don't care.

But in owning a Harley, I don't feel as if I'm ever "alone" with it - either at home nor on the road. I feel as if I always have friends along if I need them... and that just feels very nice!

I will also say that the tone of conversation here on CVOHarley is noticeably more civil and supportive than on any of the other Harley forums of which I am a member... and that includes pretty much all of them. Since I became active here when we bought the Honey Badger in Aug 2011, I have stopped even visiting any other Harley forums - except for our local "Georgia Crew" subgroup on HDF. I simply neither need nor desire them anymore!

Ken

[LovemyCVOgirl]

Before I bought my first Harley ('09 Soft Tail) I had been riding the Japanese version of the Harley bagger.  I thought it was the best MC there ever was!  I rode with my Harley friends and just couldn't understand what they saw in their overpriced, breakdown, oil leaking Harley's.  Not to mention that they were always bitching about something rattling or squeaking.

But that all changed in '09 when I succumbed to their teasing and traded in my Yamaha V-Star 1100 on my brand new pearl white/chopper blue Soft Tail.  From the minute I pulled out of the dealer's lot and started down the road, I was hooked!  I understood why my friends owned Harley's.  .  The Yamaha got me from point A to point B and she did it quietly, reliably and was very dependable.  But the Harley.., It got me there rumbling, thrilled, and a Hugh smile on my face!   . The Harley gave me a ride I will never forget.  . The memories of riding the Yamaha were lost in my past.  
When I ride the curves on my Harley, I like to lean so far that I can smell the pavement.  The Yamaha cried when it leaned.  Lol

And perhaps it shall be that riding my Harley and pushing the edge will bring me closer to my last day on this earth.  But I don't fear living or loving ~ What I do fear is boredom and unrealized dreams.  So, I encourage all Harley riders that if they could do anything, it would be to not let your dreams go to sleep.

My dreams fell asleep on the boring Yamaha and they woke up when I twisted the throttle on my Harley.  

[North Georgia Hawg]

Before I bought my first Harley ('09 Soft Tail) I had been riding the Japanese version of the Harley bagger.  I thought it was the best MC there ever was!  I rode with my Harley friends and just couldn't understand what they saw in their overpriced, breakdown, oil leaking Harley's.  Not to mention that they were always bitching about something rattling or squeaking.

But that all changed in '09 when I succumbed to their teasing and traded in my Yamaha V-Star 1100 on my brand new pearl white/chopper blue Soft Tail.  From the minute I pulled out of the dealer's lot and started down the road, I was hooked!  I understood why my friends owned Harley's.  .  The Yamaha got me from point A to point B and she did it quietly, reliably and was very dependable.  But the Harley.., It got me there rumbling, thrilled, and a Hugh smile on my face!   . The Harley gave me a ride I will never forget.  . The memories of riding the Yamaha were lost in my past.  
When I ride the curves on my Harley, I like to lean so far that I can smell the pavement.  The Yamaha cried when it leaned.  Lol

And perhaps it shall be that riding my Harley and pushing the edge will bring me closer to my last day on this earth.  But I don't fear living or loving ~ What I do fear is boredom and unrealized dreams.  So, I encourage all Harley riders that if they could do anything, it would be to not let your dreams go to sleep.

My dreams fell asleep on the boring Yamaha and they woke up when I twisted the throttle on my Harley.  

Judy - Mary coincidentally started out on a used V-Star 650. Then we bought an new '08 V-Star 1100 Classic for her - trading the 650 for it in Little Rock at the BBBQ rally in Sept '09 when the 650 broke down there, and the dealer couldn't get a new stator for it until the following week.

She never liked the V-Star 1100, and I HATED it! It rode like crap, and was a BEAR to work on. I had to take the exhaust OFF to even change the oil. I could never get the two carbs properly synched either, and it never really ran very well. I rode it down to H-D of Macon and took wholesale trade-in for that POS when I bought the HB, just to get rid of it! Took a bath on it, too... but at that point I didn't even care anymore. I just wanted it out of our lives.

Mary went through the Harley thing, riding my old '95 FLHTP Police E-Glide for awhile and hating every minute of it... but she much prefers her current little candy lime green Ninja 650 because it is so light and maneuverable for her.  She just likes the small sport bike style better than big heavy cruisers like Harleys. She's never ridden the Honey Badger and she has absolutely no desire to. I'm fine with that! 

To each, their own... but like you, I just love the Harley feel and rumble!

Ken

[LovemyCVOgirl]

Reading your well written post Ken, said everything I forgot to add in mine.   . You are right about the V-Star, it was not user friendly.  .  I love my Harley and as long as I can throw my leg over the seat, I will ride this MC.  . Mary has found something that works for her and that is what riding is all about.  But the best day of my MC experience was getting my first Harley.    The second best thing was getting a RED one.   

[cambo]

Before I bought my first Harley ('09 Soft Tail) I had been riding the Japanese version of the Harley bagger.  I thought it was the best MC there ever was!  I rode with my Harley friends and just couldn't understand what they saw in their overpriced, breakdown, oil leaking Harley's.  Not to mention that they were always bitching about something rattling or squeaking.

But that all changed in '09 when I succumbed to their teasing and traded in my Yamaha V-Star 1100 on my brand new pearl white/chopper blue Soft Tail.  From the minute I pulled out of the dealer's lot and started down the road, I was hooked!  I understood why my friends owned Harley's.  .  The Yamaha got me from point A to point B and she did it quietly, reliably and was very dependable.  But the Harley.., It got me there rumbling, thrilled, and a Hugh smile on my face!   . The Harley gave me a ride I will never forget.  . The memories of riding the Yamaha were lost in my past.  
When I ride the curves on my Harley, I like to lean so far that I can smell the pavement.  The Yamaha cried when it leaned.  Lol

And perhaps it shall be that riding my Harley and pushing the edge will bring me closer to my last day on this earth.  But I don't fear living or loving ~ What I do fear is boredom and unrealized dreams.  So, I encourage all Harley riders that if they could do anything, it would be to not let your dreams go to sleep.

My dreams fell asleep on the boring Yamaha and they woke up when I twisted the throttle on my Harley.  

Wow! I am a new member and do not know much about the folks on this forum. But if you are not a writer you have missed your calling. I am a harley fan for the same reasons you stated, though I can not come close to your level of eloquence trying to describe why. So I will just say 'ditto'!

[ultrarider123]

Thought I would chime in here on this one.  
First bike was a 450L Suzuki.  Bought it on a Friday, totaled it the next day....bought it again a year later (future brother-in-law...which is now EX bro in law...rebuilt it) and rode the fool out of it.  Shaft drive was great...no mechanical problems.  Have owned Honda's, Kawi's, Suzuki's and all were great bikes.  I just loved riding.  If I could find a job that paid me to ride and I could take Vickie, man I'd be in hog (pardon the pun) heaven.
My first HD was my dad's '72 and while it was big, heavy, rattled, leaked everywhere and would vibrate the fillings out of your teeth, it was the bee's knees when it came to fullfilling that "gotta ride" need in all of us much better than any of the other bikes I had owned.
Honda used to have the slogan "You meet the nicest people on a Honda".  I'm here to tell you, you really don't meet many folks on a Honda-Kawa-Yama-zuki.  After all the HD's I'd had through the '80's and '90's, I bought a new 1800 GW in 2001 (wild hair moment) and traveled quite a bit on it...just never got the same responses on it and it was a all new model in 2001.  Nobody really cared cause, and this is my opinion after owning one, it didn't have one bit of pizazz.  Own a Harley, however, and you meet all kinds of people.  "Hey, I used to ride one of those"; "I rode a (enter the year here) back in my day/during the war"; "Man, that paint is beautiful"; "That's a nice ride"; "Where y'all (or you) from?"; "Bet that set you back some"; "What model is that?"; "They sure make a good looking bike"....all things I've heard from complete strangers while on one or another of the Harley Davidson's I've been pleased to call my own.  There is something about one that keeps us/me coming back even after I swore I'd never own another one.  Out of date?  Yep.  Old school looks?  Yep.  Issues with motor/tranny/electronics/etc?  Yep.  Keeps a smile on your face a mile wide through sun/rain/cold/heat?  You bet it does!  THAT'S why we keep coming back.  I'm a proud Harley owner.

[michaelbmenaker]

I have to say that I don't like -- but accept the reality of having to modify intake/exhaust/AFR to overcome the EPA mandated requirements. A CAT removal or new header, free flowing slip-ons and a dyno tune are just part of the deal anymore.

But, the stereo is fine for me, and I have never had a problem with stock suspension. I have owned many motorcycles over the years. My first HD was a '90 Springer, had 95 (totaled, but I was repairable), 96 and '02 (CVO) Road Kings and a '10 CVO Streetglide. They just keep getting better.

There's a price to pay if you prefer old technology in a low-emissions world. It's worth it to me. My Harleys all got more miles than any of the bikes I owned before. Just more grins per mile...

[blacktop]

I've 4 Harleys since '99. Never had a problem with any of them. The latest is a '13 Anni and it's stock and am happy with it so far - no plans yet for any mods. The heat - not an an issue here in Canada where it snows most of the year lol ( not really). For me....The seat is great, suspension is OK and the radio is OK, handle bars are a fit. I'm not saying that a little more hp/torque wouldn't be nice but for now I'll keep it stock.

[bear tracks]

I've owned a barn-find Triumph Bonneville, two Honda Gold Wings and more recently two Electra-Glides.  All of the bikes needed mechanical repairs throughout my ownership.  I loved them all because they made me feel alive, but I am addicted to V-twins rumbling through true dual pipes.  Yes, I am a Harleyholic as well.   

[braymond52]

You have a lot to say about the MoCo based on your your experience with one of the six Harleys that you've owned.  What about the other five?  Your must have had somewhat of a different opinion to keep buying new bikes, especially after the bad one you described.

Most people I know that own Toyotas love them - they say they're incredibly reliable.  I bought a brand new Toyota back in the '80s and it was not reliable.  My point is that all car and motorcycle companies will occasionally build a crappy bike.  Harley-Davidson and toyota included.

I owned a 2011 Road Glide Ultra with the 103 motor and I thought it was a great bike - no troubles whatsoever in 2.5 years of ownership and 15k miles.  If not for falling in love with my CVO, I'd still own it.