Topic: Recent Harley Advisory Panel (Read 14929 times)

Robmay · « **on:** October 08, 2015, 04:27:44 PM »

I just completed Octobers advisory panel questionnaire. When they say they are considering getting rid of the locking side stand, I assume they mean the kick stand? If so, why would they make the kickstand NON locking? Seems that would be way unsafe. I had to answer several questions regarding my future purchase(s) if there was not a side stand or if I'd rather have one locking or non locking or didn't care. For what's it worth, my vote is to keep a locking side stand.

Thoughts?

King Glide · « **Reply #1 on:** October 08, 2015, 04:38:28 PM »

Absolutely, even if they planned to exchange the side kick Stand for a ride off center stand it would be a problem because the center stand won't work in all circumstances and even if it did it's not something everyone likes or would use.

TN · « **Reply #2 on:** October 08, 2015, 04:45:33 PM »

Quote from: Robmay on October 08, 2015, 04:27:44 PM

I just completed Octobers advisory panel questionnaire. When they say they are considering getting rid of the locking side stand, I assume they mean the kick stand? If so, why would they make the kickstand NON locking? Seems that would be way unsafe. I had to answer several questions regarding my future purchase(s) if there was not a side stand or if I'd rather have one locking or non locking or didn't care. For what's it worth, my vote is to keep a locking side stand.

Thoughts?

Rob, I'm nervous anytime I'm parking downhill from you.

without the locking feature would not be good. I wonder if that would save them fifty cents a bike, er maybe more?

TN

windjammer · « **Reply #3 on:** October 08, 2015, 04:56:39 PM »

I did the survey also and had the same concerns. Not sure what they are doing in Milwaukee sometimes.

Robmay · « **Reply #4 on:** October 08, 2015, 04:57:31 PM »

Quote from: TN on October 08, 2015, 04:45:33 PM

Rob, I'm nervous anytime I'm parking downhill from you. without the locking feature would not be good. I wonder if that would save them fifty cents a bike, er maybe more?

TN

The problem with me ain't the locking mechanism, it's the putting the stand down mechanism! Mike'll tell ya...

OBB · « **Reply #5 on:** October 08, 2015, 05:01:59 PM »

Same answers as you when I did mine Rob. Also added a few opinions about the cheap route they took on our bikes concerning painted parts, or lack thereof.

110tHunDer · « **Reply #6 on:** October 08, 2015, 05:08:01 PM »

I agree it should be locking, but interesting they would ask about that. No side stand? I wouldn't want a center stand, only. Parking on uneven or sloped surfaces would be interesting with just a center stand. Seems like a question with only one answer.

Asking about a locking gas cap would make more sense. Yes, please. Electronic, of course.

ultrafxr · « **Reply #7 on:** October 08, 2015, 05:19:25 PM »

Thanks for posting this Rob. I too thought the question was strange to say the least. I did not get the impression that the side (jiffy) stand would be eliminated at all - just that it would no longer be locking. I simply cannot understand how that would be of any benefit nor can I envision any downside to having a locking side stand. Actually I think the locking side stand is one of the better features of a Harley, and one that seems to work without failure to boot.

Why, oh why do folks confuse change with improvement?

Leave it alone. It works just fine.

skycat · « **Reply #8 on:** October 08, 2015, 05:25:11 PM »

The side stand on my Street glide and Dyna are a floppy POS

i worry every time i put stand down, i have no confidence in the design whatsoever.
The Soft Tail feels like a more refined and stable system. Still not as good as a Honda or Suzuki

CVODON · « **Reply #9 on:** October 08, 2015, 07:24:51 PM »

HD, to me, has the best kick-stand out there. Not sure why they would want to change it. I could not believe it when I came to that part of the survey.
That was first survey I have not completed every question on. I would not tell them about performance add-on's to my bike.

Harley Guy · « **Reply #10 on:** October 08, 2015, 07:40:08 PM »

Quote from: 110tHunDer on October 08, 2015, 05:08:01 PM

I agree it should be locking, but interesting they would ask about that. No side stand? I wouldn't want a center stand, only. Parking on uneven or sloped surfaces would be interesting with just a center stand. Seems like a question with only one answer.

Asking about a locking gas cap would make more sense. Yes, please. Electronic, of course.

Locking gas cap - why? Can you elaborate.

110tHunDer · « **Reply #11 on:** October 08, 2015, 07:59:24 PM »

Same reason most any car has one these days .... security. I don't see why they can't have a door that locks with the saddlebags. I've never had a problem, and I'd like to keep it that way.

phato1 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 08, 2015, 08:32:51 PM »

Seems like somebody at HD figured they could increase profits by A) removing the Jiffy stand locking slot on the frames, saving material B) removing the locking tab itself from the jiffy stand, saving material and a little chrome plating C) Selling a whole bunch more painted parts when everyone's bike falls over

I'm waiting for the survey that announces an actual improvement in the quality of a given component and asks me if that would influence my purchase decision.

FWIW I did answer that I would NOT purchase a motorcycle without a LOCKING feature on the side stand.

FLSTFI Dave · « **Reply #13 on:** October 08, 2015, 08:53:08 PM »

I was 110% against removing the locking side stand on the survey. In comments I let them know I felt it was another move to lessen quality, save the company money, and give the customer less for their money. I added in like removing the bullet turn lights from the 16 CVO RG and Limited was a cost savings for the company, but a price increase for us and a decrease in rear-end visibility. Cheapening the product again while charging more.

Trapperdog · « **Reply #14 on:** October 08, 2015, 09:03:57 PM »

The locking side stand is one of HD' s best features. The topic of a fallen bike due to rolling forward when parked comes up every few weeks on all the non HD forums I belong to as most euro's and metrics don't have the locking feature. I've had it happen once in my Suzuki a while back

RGlideKid · « **Reply #15 on:** October 08, 2015, 09:08:02 PM »

I've only now just signed up for the Advisory Panel but in the meantime, does anyone really know what they have in mind as a replacement for the locking jiffy stand? So what what in the sam hill would they replace it with that would not be locking but still be as sure a bet as the current design?

OBB · « **Reply #16 on:** October 08, 2015, 09:10:49 PM »

They'd be a damn fool to get rid of it. I stated that I would not consider a bike without it.

phato1 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 08, 2015, 09:12:28 PM »

Probably replace it with something like this:

Chains · « **Reply #18 on:** October 08, 2015, 09:23:52 PM »

Sounds like we all answered the same way.

OBB · « **Reply #19 on:** October 08, 2015, 10:21:20 PM »

Parts guys at the dealer... "So you would like a locking kickstand like we used to make stock on the bikes? It's in the P&A catalogue for a list price of $199.99"

ultrarider123 · « **Reply #20 on:** October 08, 2015, 10:27:39 PM »

I'm with you fellers...the locking jiffy stand is a great idea and design that has no need to be refreshed, refurbished or "Rushmored" which is pretty much what I said in the comments on the survey.

Strange survey this month...

JCZ · « **Reply #21 on:** October 08, 2015, 10:53:30 PM »

The bean counters are trying to figure out a way to generate more profit. So they'll sell it to you in the P&A catalog.

Trapperdog · « **Reply #22 on:** October 08, 2015, 10:59:40 PM »

Quote from: JCZ on October 08, 2015, 10:53:30 PM

The bean counters are trying to figure out a way to generate more profit. So they'll sell it to you in the P&A catalog.

That's Probably more correct than we care to admit

CVOJIMMYC · « **Reply #23 on:** October 09, 2015, 02:39:22 AM »

Quote from: phato1 on October 08, 2015, 09:12:28 PM

Probably replace it with something like this:

Oh Yeah, when they un crate em you get to keep a 2x4 for the jiffy stand, also doubles as self protection weapon, when the liberals get done with gun control LOL

D-N-D · « **Reply #24 on:** October 09, 2015, 05:49:08 AM »

They also asked if you customized your most resent purchased bike, questions like what did you replace or customize did you buy Harley or aftermarket and who was the manufacture of the aftermarket parts. They like to know who taking there business.

muddypaws · « **Reply #25 on:** October 09, 2015, 07:47:39 AM »

Thought the same. Why change.

Flatvalley · « **Reply #26 on:** October 09, 2015, 10:47:21 AM »

I have to admit sounding stupid but since my 14 CVO limited is my first Harley ever, I am a bit confused as to the "locking jiffy stand" either my bike doesn't have that feature or I don't have a clue as how to activate it. Mine has never locked and you can move the bike on the stand with little or no effort. I often shift the bike into first gear just before engine shut down to kept the bike from rolling on the jiffy stand. Any info or help on how to activate this feature would be appreciated. Thanks.

ultrafxr · « **Reply #27 on:** October 09, 2015, 11:25:22 AM »

Quote from: Flatvalley on October 09, 2015, 10:47:21 AM

I have to admit sounding stupid but since my 14 CVO limited is my first Harley ever, I am a bit confused as to the "locking jiffy stand" either my bike doesn't have that feature or I don't have a clue as how to activate it. Mine has never locked and you can move the bike on the stand with little or no effort. I often shift the bike into first gear just before engine shut down to kept the bike from rolling on the jiffy stand. Any info or help on how to activate this feature would be appreciated. Thanks.

Not stupid at all. When I got my first Harley I also did not know about the locking feature of the side/jiffy stand. If you look at the bracket that attaches the stand to your bike's frame you will see a tab/tang (Harley calls it a 'leg stop') that is attached to the jiffy stand with a bolt. The weight of the bike on the stand causes the jiffy stand to move in toward the bike and the leg stop moves into a slot on the bracket. This then prevents the bike from moving as the leg stop is captured in the slot and prevents the jiffy stand from retracting. Now the bike WILL ROLL maybe a couple inches forward but no further. It is a bit disconcerting at first but if you make sure you have the jiffy stand pushed all the way forward before you put the weight of the bike on it (as was stated in a previous post) then the leg stop will be captured in the slot and lock the stand.

dayne66 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 09, 2015, 11:33:29 AM »

Quote from: OBB on October 08, 2015, 10:21:20 PM

Parts guys at the dealer... "So you would like a locking kickstand like we used to make stock on the bikes? It's in the P&A catalogue for a list price of $199.99"

Of course, because it will be a SE part for 'off road use only' it will come with the added anxiety of not knowing for sure if you have voided your warranty or not.

ultrafxr · « **Reply #29 on:** October 09, 2015, 11:37:56 AM »

Quote from: dayne66 on October 09, 2015, 11:33:29 AM

Of course, because it will be a SE part for 'off road use only' it will come with the added anxiety of not knowing for sure if you have voided your warranty or not.

And you'll probably have to have the dealer install it as Digital Technician must be used to complete the process.

phato1 · « **Reply #30 on:** October 09, 2015, 08:07:29 PM »

Quote from: ultrafxr on October 09, 2015, 11:37:56 AM

And you'll probably have to have the dealer install it as Digital Technician must be used to complete the process.

That would be the case only if the bike has the optional Jiffy Stand Transmission in Neutral Safety Starting Software Relay --- which of course would be easily configured through your infotainment system user interface --- so as to prevent accidental forward motion under power whilst the jiffy stand is deployed.

TN · « **Reply #31 on:** October 09, 2015, 09:01:10 PM »

Never used to give the jiffy stand any attention, just fixed it when a problem arose. Now the HD locking kickstand is on my service checklist. Try it.

As far as the focus group question............never mind.

TN

CVODON · « **Reply #32 on:** October 09, 2015, 11:02:49 PM »

Dave, different strokes for different. I like the fact that turn signals were removed from rear fenders. I never saw a need for them. I always thought they should be in the tourpak as it is taller. My SERG didn't have bullitt turn signals and I thought it looked a lot better as well.

ChopperPilot · « **Reply #33 on:** October 10, 2015, 09:03:19 AM »

I thought the survey question was a joke!

Maybe, they are planning a non-locking stand in order to sell you a Screamin Eagle locking stand for $400?

grc · « **Reply #34 on:** October 10, 2015, 10:57:59 AM »

Quote from: ChopperPilot on October 10, 2015, 09:03:19 AM

I thought the survey question was a joke!

Maybe, they are planning a non-locking stand in order to sell you a Screamin Eagle locking stand for $400?

I doubt it's a joke. The more likely situation is that one of the young eager engineers has been tasked with finding cost savings, and he latched onto the multiple pieces of the jiffy stand as a good target without having a single clue as to the actual importance of the locking feature.

You may rest assured if they ignore all the negative comments and make the change anyway that they will offer an upgrade kit in the catalog so you can pay extra to regain the function they took away. Personally, I would hope they would redesign the current sloppy locking mechanism to make it more secure and confidence inspiring, not eliminate it. Maybe they should look at how they've done it for ages on the Dyna line; much simpler and less expensive design that I found to be more confidence inspiring that the Touring version.

Jerry

JCZ · « **Reply #35 on:** October 10, 2015, 11:14:55 AM »

Quote from: grc on October 10, 2015, 10:57:59 AM

I doubt it's a joke. The more likely situation is that one of the young eager engineers has been tasked with finding cost savings, and he latched onto the multiple pieces of the jiffy stand as a good target without having a single clue as to the actual importance of the locking feature.

You may rest assured if they ignore all the negative comments and make the change anyway that they will offer an upgrade kit in the catalog so you can pay extra to regain the function they took away. Personally, I would hope they would redesign the current sloppy locking mechanism to make it more secure and confidence inspiring, not eliminate it. Maybe they should look at how they've done it for ages on the Dyna line; much simpler and less expensive design that I found to be more confidence inspiring that the Touring version.

Jerry

I join you in your optamism about what they're up to with the jiffy stand Jerry.

dayne66 · « **Reply #36 on:** October 10, 2015, 11:35:29 AM »

Quote from: ChopperPilot on October 10, 2015, 09:03:19 AM

I thought the survey question was a joke!

Maybe, they are planning a non-locking stand in order to sell you a Screamin Eagle locking stand for $400?

You doubled the price.....it was 'just' $199.99 a few posts ago.

sadunbar · « **Reply #37 on:** October 10, 2015, 11:43:38 AM »

My wife's first bike was a Kawasaki Vulcan 750. It did not have a locking kickstand. She often parked it on our slightly inclined driveway in neutral, which worked fine until I added a windshield to her bike. The first time she parked it on our driveway (in neutral) with the windshield was the last time. A wind gust caught by the windshield rolled the bike just far enough forward that it tumbled over.

JCZ · « **Reply #38 on:** October 10, 2015, 12:38:01 PM »

Quote from: dayne66 on October 10, 2015, 11:35:29 AM

You doubled the price.....it was 'just' $199.99 a few posts ago.

That's how the MoCo does it.

windjammer · « **Reply #39 on:** October 10, 2015, 02:35:23 PM »

Same thing happened to the licking gas cap-fender lights-saddlebag rails-bumpers-need I go on?

ultrafxr · « **Reply #40 on:** October 10, 2015, 05:49:10 PM »

Quote from: windjammer on October 10, 2015, 02:35:23 PM

Same thing happened to the licking gas cap-fender lights-saddlebag rails-bumpers-need I go on?

Passenger grab rail also.

FLSTFI Dave · « **Reply #41 on:** October 10, 2015, 09:00:19 PM »

Quote from: CVODON on October 09, 2015, 11:02:49 PM

Dave, different strokes for different. I like the fact that turn signals were removed from rear fenders. I never saw a need for them. I always thought they should be in the tourpak as it is taller. My SERG didn't have bullitt turn signals and I thought it looked a lot better as well.

My SERG did not have bullet signals, nor does my SERK as they are not needed as they are built into the fender skirts with the tail / running lights.

On my SERGU the bullet signals are needed as my tour pack is quick detach and off the bike a lot when not on a trip. Also having the bullet signals gives you a good way to mount a plate when the tour pack is on or off, that does not look ugly with the tour pac off. Attached a picture to show you it's important to me and several others I know. Tour pack is on in the picture, but its often off. With out the bullets there is no place good to mount a plate, and you would have to put signals on the bag. Or do the 900 plus paint and do a SERG rear fender and lights.

TN · « **Reply #42 on:** October 11, 2015, 07:40:38 AM »

They took the electra glide, removed the tourpak, and the street glide was born. Willie G took credit for this. 2006 first year didn't do so well. Innovative.

TN

I just figured out the drink emoji...............it's drinking the kool aid

I've drank my fair share.

BDMastiff · « **Reply #43 on:** October 11, 2015, 09:05:35 AM »

Interesting topic. Last year I purchased the EZ-Up center stand (which is a good product); however, I removed it from my bike after 3 rides as it lowered my ground clearance and I was constantly bottoming out and scraping the "foot bar" on turns. The locking kick stand is a solid product and MOCO should leave it alone. It may be the only part of my bike that I've never had to worry about fixing, tweaking or changing. Just my .02 cents.

JCZ · « **Reply #44 on:** October 11, 2015, 10:34:34 AM »

Willie G did take credit for the Street Glide and he readily admitted that the concept came directly from the 04 and 05 CVO SEEG. People were removing tour packs from Ultra Classic for years before that.

Dipstick I had the center stand on my 89 Ultra Classic. Constantly dragging and/or high center on speed bumps, driveways, etc. It does lower your lean angle also. I'll stay with the locking kickstand as I've had on many, many bikes over the years.

dayne66 · « **Reply #45 on:** October 11, 2015, 11:05:49 AM »

Quote from: DipStick on October 11, 2015, 09:05:35 AM

It may be the only part of my bike that I've never had to worry about fixing, tweaking or changing. Just my .02 cents.

My Wife recently bought a new '15 Switchback. Even before we lowered it she had to tilt the bike just past vertical to deploy the jiffy stand.....on a level surface such as the garage floor. The shoulder of almost any road compounded the problem. We always had to pay extra attention to parking spot selection. Now that the bike is lowered, an Arlen Ness -1" jiffy stand is on the way.

RGlideKid · « **Reply #46 on:** October 11, 2015, 12:20:28 PM »

Quote from: TN on October 11, 2015, 07:40:38 AM

I just figured out the drink emoji...............it's drinking the kool aid I've drank my fair share.

You're probably right TN, and I've drunk my share of the kook aid over the years, but I prefer to think of that emoji as drinking a nice dark beer...or a whiskey and coke in a tall glass!

cambo · « **Reply #47 on:** October 11, 2015, 04:54:53 PM »

Quote from: TRAPPERDOG on October 08, 2015, 09:03:57 PM

The locking side stand is one of HD' s best features. The topic of a fallen bike due to rolling forward when parked comes up every few weeks on all the non HD forums I belong to as most euro's and metrics don't have the locking feature. I've had it happen once in my Suzuki a while back

I did complete the survey and told them about my experience with a Suzuki I used to own. Even though I had the bike in gear I did not release the clutch before I attempted to get off the bike (I don't know why). As soon as I lifted my right foot, the bike rolled forward and landed securely on my left leg as I took a tumble. The bike was not hurt and neither was I. Having the Breakout (700 lbs) roll forward and land on my left leg would have a totally different effect on my health though.

I told them I would not purchase a Harley that does not have a locking side stand.

Cam

skycat · « **Reply #48 on:** November 12, 2015, 05:23:50 AM »

I have been worried about the jiffy stand for a while, as the bike will move forward a few inches when it sits on the jiffy.
So i striped the stand and found that the square hole in the stop is to big for the jiffy leg so i packed it out with a shim from a feeler gauge now it is not loose and feels much more precise.
Another poor product poorly installed, quality control NOT.

the bike is a 2015 Street Glide done 1600km. why do we bother with Harley Davidson

bubtrauma · « **Reply #49 on:** November 20, 2015, 12:35:56 PM »

GEEZ HD just put changes and money into quality issues ......... comps, lifters, & crank runout, paint, chrome and many more. Personally they need to have a drive train that is more bullet proof. I am tried of hearing these words from a dealer "THEY ALL RUN LIKE THAT" or "THATS NORMAL". That being said I still LOVE my Harley.

kansaskim47 · « **Reply #50 on:** November 21, 2015, 12:47:43 PM »

The Jiffy stand as is is really a safety feature. Most of the metric bikes have a switch for the side stand and I have experience with those that fail. One of my co-workers almost lost a son when his switch failed and he left the side stand down and it pogoed him off the bike and under a guard rail. A left turn at any speed with a rigid stand will pitch the bike over.

Mike survived after being in the hospital for a couple of weeks and 2 months of rehab.

Suzuki paid a good price for that one.

The Jiffy stand will in most circumstances fold up without harm if it is left down. (Don't ask me how I know that one.)
It will at least make some noise unless it is a severe left turn from a near stop.

Don't f#$@ with it.

cambo · « **Reply #51 on:** November 21, 2015, 02:32:30 PM »

Quote from: kansaskim47 on November 21, 2015, 12:47:43 PM

The Jiffy stand will in most circumstances fold up without harm if it is left down. (Don't ask me how I know that one.)
It will at least make some noise unless it is a severe left turn from a near stop.

Don't f#$@ with it.

I, too, know what you speak of and do not want to be asked how I have gained such knowledge! As I informed Harley, they mess with the jiffy stand and I'm done with Harley's.

Cam

BluesRunner · « **Reply #52 on:** November 21, 2015, 03:04:09 PM »

Quote from: phato1 on October 08, 2015, 08:32:51 PM

I'm waiting for the survey that announces an actual improvement in the quality of a given component and asks me if that would influence my purchase decision.

FWIW I did answer that I would NOT purchase a motorcycle without a LOCKING feature on the side stand.

I answered the same way. Its one of the traditional Harley things that makes the bike a Harley and not another metric or something.

OBB · « **Reply #53 on:** August 23, 2016, 03:03:29 PM »

So we all pretty much laughed about the advisory panel asking us about the color and labeling on oil and such.... Has anyone taken notice of the new packaging on SE parts now??

BigLew · « **Reply #54 on:** August 23, 2016, 03:59:20 PM »

No I haven't??

BigLew

phato1 · « **Reply #55 on:** August 23, 2016, 06:17:46 PM »

The only SE parts I've purchased recently were the new lifters I installed a few weeks ago and I didn't notice if the box had any newfangled fancy logo on it....

JCZ · « **Reply #56 on:** August 23, 2016, 06:40:51 PM »

If it does, they're going to charge you another $100.

OBB · « **Reply #57 on:** August 23, 2016, 06:45:52 PM »

Nicer looking black boxes and a slightly different logo.

phato1 · « **Reply #58 on:** August 23, 2016, 07:47:53 PM »

I got ripped off!!! The box was white with a cheap little sticker on the side listing the part number... the sticker did have an SE logo on it though....

TN · « **Reply #59 on:** August 23, 2016, 08:19:44 PM »

In 1999, maybe 2000 the screamin eagle motorbikes did in fact have screamin eagle parts, they were built from the catalog. Not sure when they insisted on defining them as CVO, ??

Nothing that a little cash won't cure, screamin eagle parts on yer CVO that is.

I'm still waiting for their electric bike to hit the market.

Ride like the wind

TN

Road Dad · « **Reply #60 on:** August 23, 2016, 10:45:23 PM »

No need for a looking side stand. Leave it in gear like any stick shift car. I don't mind having it but definitely not needed.

glens · « **Reply #61 on:** August 26, 2016, 05:48:06 PM »

Quote from: windjammer on October 10, 2015, 02:35:23 PM

Same thing happened to the licking gas cap-fender lights-saddlebag rails-bumpers-need I go on?

Had an '09 Ultra that got deer-totaled and should've grabbed the chromed steel rear engine mount covers to replace the black plastic ones that came on the '12 Ultra. At least I did keep the tool kit that's now ancient history.

Haven't looked at the '17 CVOs yet, but I see the Ultra Limited now has no rear fender tip light or CB antenna, and evidently the '17s don't indicate oil pressure in the infotainment information screen anymore. You just get textual confirmation whether the idiot light should be lit or not.

Author Topic: Recent Harley Advisory Panel (Read 14929 times)

ultrarider123