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[Para Bellum]

I'm a life member of HOG, but I'm not a brainless cheerleader for it who can't see the downside(s).  I'm also cynical (informed? historical knowledge?) enough to know HOG was formed to benefit the dealers and MoCo by building loyalty between customers and HD/dealers.  Of course, the customers have to get "enough" from it that it's worth it to them...and that's going to vary from person to person, and might change over time for each person.  And I've been in good HOG chapters and terrible ones.

So here are my observations on your post:
1.  Light attendance at 11:30 am on a Friday in October:  School is in; it's a workday.  Not all HOG members are retired or can take the day off.  How's the crowd Friday night, Sat, Sun?

2. I've been to many rallies like Street Vibrations where I haven't bought the "packet" to get into the concerts and pre-paid dinners...but nearly every rally/ride has a "registration" fee to compensate the organizer for their expenses, and for some chapters it's a fund-raising event.  I haven't found any free poker runs, either--by which I mean we have to pay to play.

3.  As far as being a member:  Doesn't everybody who goes to a HOG rally have to be a member, or at least a member's guest?  What effect did that statement "already a member" have on the people staffing the rally?  They might have thought you were trying to get the T-shirt and concerts for free, even though all members have to pay for it.  And while I didn't hear the tone of voice when they called you "boys," it's a figure of speech, not a major put-down.

4.  95% of the attendees are HOG members.  How do they provide "special" parking for everybody?

5.  Predatory financial policies is right on.  Ditto top-of-the-line prices and basement quality.  I don't like it either.  Then again, unlike with government agencies and socialist/communist countries, we aren't forced to buy anything from them.  In capitalism, businesses price their goods based on a combination of their cost and the current supply and demand.  Capitalism guarantees there will be competition from other companies.  Indian bikes are top-quality at reasonable prices.  The only thing forcing us to pay HD's prices is...us.  If enough people stop buying HD, their prices will come down.

Owl, I can see you have monkey-butt about your experience there, but the HOG rallies are put on by the local HOG chapter with some help from national HOG and the sponsoring dealer.  IMO, it's unrealistic to expect the local chapter to pay for T-shirts, concerts, etc. from their money.  And since there are probably 35 state HOG rallies every year (some of them huge), imagine how much it would cost national HOG to provide free shirts, etc for everyone who shows up--and how many more would show up if all that was free?  I don't know how much your annual dues are now, but how much stuff would it buy?  Sorry, dude, but I think your crew was disappointed because your expectations were too high.

[Para Bellum]

She's in her 30s now Owl & I have 3 grandkids.  That she lived to be a non teenager is a testimony to my selective semi deafness when it comes to words like fine from her & her brother as  teenagers.

So true.  Some kids don't know how lucky they are to be alive.  Then they have kids of their own and realize. 

"At that point the $0 per hour we were earning did not appear to be worth it."   

[MrSurly]

 I have been involved in many volunteer efforts, supporting various causes, manning booths, taking tickets, cleaning up after, hauling tables and chairs, hauling equipment, mowing the grounds... and can certainly appreciate the efforts of the people involved as I have been one of them (but not with H.O.G.). I commend these people who put forth their effort and their time and money to make such an event take shape. That does not mean that I lose my ability to praise OR bemoan the result. My disappointment has little to do with the volunteer's efforts and more to do with the various sponsors who I feel might've done more to promote the event, to get out the word, as it were. As stated, I hadn't been to one; I truly didn't know what to expect. I guess I put too much weight on the idea that this was the Official State HOG rally. I naively imagined that *many* folks would be trekking from all over Texas to attend. So, Yes, I likely expected too much.
With all the social media networking that everyone does, I can't believe how little mention there was of the event.
 I'm sure I'm just the sole whiner and I shouldn't HAVE expectations.
I don't agree that I shouldn't care.
I continue to feel that if you take on a job, you should try to do it well.

[owl893]

So here are my observations on your post:
1.  Light attendance at 11:30 am on a Friday in October:  School is in; it's a workday.  Not all HOG members are retired or can take the day off.  How's the crowd Friday night, Sat, Sun?

2. I've been to many rallies like Street Vibrations where I haven't bought the "packet" to get into the concerts and pre-paid dinners...but nearly every rally/ride has a "registration" fee to compensate the organizer for their expenses, and for some chapters it's a fund-raising event.  I haven't found any free poker runs, either--by which I mean we have to pay to play.

3.  As far as being a member:  Doesn't everybody who goes to a HOG rally have to be a member, or at least a member's guest?  What effect did that statement "already a member" have on the people staffing the rally?  They might have thought you were trying to get the T-shirt and concerts for free, even though all members have to pay for it.  And while I didn't hear the tone of voice when they called you "boys," it's a figure of speech, not a major put-down.

4.  95% of the attendees are HOG members.  How do they provide "special" parking for everybody?


Owl, I can see you have monkey-butt about your experience there, but the HOG rallies are put on by the local HOG chapter with some help from national HOG and the sponsoring dealer.  IMO, it's unrealistic to expect the local chapter to pay for T-shirts, concerts, etc. from their money.  And since there are probably 35 state HOG rallies every year (some of them huge), imagine how much it would cost national HOG to provide free shirts, etc for everyone who shows up--and how many more would show up if all that was free?  I don't know how much your annual dues are now, but how much stuff would it buy?  Sorry, dude, but I think your crew was disappointed because your expectations were too high.

This is such a great forum for sharing ideas/opinions.
#1. Other rally's are usually more crowded, it was an (early) indication of the attendance, MrSurly, mentioned the empty parking lot in Texas. More riders, more bikes, more fun.
#2. AGAIN, we did not expect it to be free, if we wanted to go to a concert, or get a shirt we would expect a fee/charge. 
#3. Nope, you DO NOT have to be a member or guest. Among other things, these are recruitment events and sales pitch.
#4. "Special" parking is provided by roping off an area, closest to the dealership, perhaps even tented, with a sign that says "HOG MEMBERS ONLY", that would be a nice touch.
Perhaps you are right, our expectations were too high, it is a mistake that won't be repeated.

Para Bellum the significance of your handle is not unnoticed, I just wish H.O.G. also meant something these days as well.

King Glide, I am a Life member of ABATE, I also volunteer at our events, a Wounded Warrior event, and one Special Olympics event.  We have our critics, and when we can, we make improvements.  I'll be at our Toy Run on November 1st, welcoming everyone, and hoping to live up to expectations.  Afterwards my wife and I will stay late picking up the trash left behind.

OWL

[Dr.D]

I read the magazine and carry the map in the bike and that is all I get from HOG. I am no longer into rallies and events and group ride are not my type of riding. I'm about over the whole "you're part of the Harley family" thing.

[smkblwr]

Well funny this came up and sorry this is alittle long winded. first I understand you being turned off by her attitude. Has HOG changed yes.
I have been a lifer since 03, hog member since 02. Road Captained for the 05 & 06 State rally's in lynchburg. Road Captian for the lynchburg Chapter from 05 to 2013. Now the 2015/2016 Director. Also the 2016 Event's coordinator for the Va Rally in lynchburg. All I can say is most of our rallies pull around 1k to 2000 attendees depending on location. The rally packs have down sized over the years. Basic cost for registration then add on what you want. shirts, hats, pins, nic nac's, Lifer event(usually Free), etc. Cost or reducing cost is totally being driven by local sponsors that want to be apart of the rally, locations for poker run stops, local venders etc. This all comes down to volunteers, marketing, events, registration, volunteer, vender coordinators. This is basically a unpaid part time job to go beat the streets and convince ppl, busnesses,etc  that they will be apart of something great and help us put on a unforgetable rally. You simply will not get a big time vender at a state rally due to the attendance numbers.
   I went to HOG Officer training this year and the one thing they did admit is that they know there is a problem. Membership is down over 200k. Now most of that is probly due to age and Lets face it not many 20,30,or some 40 somethings can afford an HD when pricing against the metrics. HOG and HD have sat on the Backs of the owners from the 60's 70's, 80's, and never went after newer riders to replace the aging demography that held them up for so long untill now and they have priced themselves out of that younger demography. We have currently around 186 members in my local. With around 75% at or over retirement age and 30% of them are just in it for the "free stuff" door prizes, extra .5 loyalty points at the dealership, coffee & donuts, They don't Ride with the chapter anymore or ride just across town or not at all anymore. (First meeting this year I skipped the free stuff raffle, and got questioned after the meeting about it. "Did I miss the free stuff, I had to go to the bathroom" I replied that I didn't give anything away. I then asked him if he was going to lunch with us and replied that he only comes for the "givaways").
  Up until a month ago I was the youngest at age 40 in my chapter. So is HOG worth it? Depends on what you want out of it. For me it is worth it. I loved the National Rallies (two week riding vacation). I have only missed one Va Rally and that was because of the location it was at(the area didn't appeal to me).  As one of the HOG reps at training repeatedly said. IF your Chapter is doing anything other than Riding and Having FUN then you are doing it Wrong. That's the one thing that most ppl in my chapter don't even realize that it's a 60 mile ride just for me to show up to the ride/chapter event/meeting.  hahaha. That my friend is what HOG is suppose to be about "Riding" and we all own the most ridiculously priced brand bike out there so what's $40 to get into a State rally.
Smkblwr

[iski]

So true.  Some kids don't know how lucky they are to be alive.  Then they have kids of their own and realize. 

"At that point the $0 per hour we were earning did not appear to be worth it."   

She was old enough to begin to realize at 25.  Her kids are as much fun for her as ours were and still are for us.  Nobody told me this & guess it should be obvious but your kids never get too old for you to continue be a parent.  Sometimes I wished I had just raised dogs.....

Thread here is a good one.  The Mothership could drop a few more $$ into HOG & make a difference.  Not that they will.

[TN]

i did my time with HOG was a regular from 95 to about 2000, I never held office, they liked my financial support. Had some good times for sure but just drifted away to other riding groups and such. the chapter I used to ride with was informal and loose, at that time. The functions revolved around charities and short rides for them.

I did my time with SC ABATE also, more of a political structure but lots of charity rides and social functions too. I was treasurer for them for around 5 yrs. I don't like being on the working side of things anymore, I'm no politician. 

All these riding groups are similar, the members love motorsikles, and it's the members who make them. I hope I don't offend anyone with my twisted since of humor.

And good luck to all Y'all.......................



Lets Ride Now


TN

[HUBBARD]

U don't offend me TN!  I was a member, but they told me I rode too aggressive....imagine that!  I told that "Road Captain" to go phuck himself.  Too many idiots in the Chapter I rode with, that one time.  That was years ago.  Might be some good guys in it now, don't know, don't care.  I would rather ride with people I know.  People that I know how they ride, and they know how I ride.  Less to worry about, and a helluva lot more fun!    Later--HUBBARD   

[JCZ]

U don't offend me TN!  I was a member, but they told me I rode too aggressive....imagine that!  I told that "Road Captain" to go phuck himself.  Too many idiots in the Chapter I rode with, that one time.  That was years ago.  Might be some good guys in it now, don't know, don't care.  I would rather ride with people I know.  People that I know how they ride, and they know how I ride.  Less to worry about, and a helluva lot more fun!    Later--HUBBARD   

I concur on all counts yer honor! 

[phato1]

I don't belong to a local HOG chapter although there are some great local chapters in both the Knoxville and Maryville areas.  They are both very active in rides and such and while it's a great time for some, it's just not my cup of tea.  I have attended some local meetings over the years but I was in a home owners association for a short time and it reminded me so much of that experience that I didn't want to join.

I agree that the HOG I grew up with is not and looks a bit different than the HOG of today.  Change isn't always a bad thing.  I'm still a member and I'll continue to be one....I enjoy the magazine and the yearly road atlas.  I carry that with me on all trips.  I know, I have navigation now on the SERG but I'm still a map guy....no batteries or electronic glitches to worry about reading a map. 

Is H.O.G. worth it?  Considering the annual renewal fee and items I mentioned above, for me yes.  I get what I need out of it.

Well said. I have never joined a local chapter up here in CT because they tend to have to many rules, you have to attend x number of monthly meetings, you have to volunteer at x number events, you have to attend x number chapter rides.... well i don't HAVE TO do any of that....Riding (to me) is supposed to help me forget all the BS of the 9-5 (or longer) grind not remind me of it with all the "you have to" stuff.

I am a national member and it's precisely for the reasons you mention, the mag is usually a decent read even if it's heavy on the marketing of the latest "innovation" from HD and the road atlas goes with us whenever we travel either by bike or car.

I do wish the dealers would ALL go back to giving HOG members a small discount on parts and stuff. That went away years ago. For a while dealers in my area would offer the discount to local chapter members but even that has stopped, further removing any incentive for me to join the local chapter....

[Para Bellum]

She was old enough to begin to realize at 25.  Her kids are as much fun for her as ours were and still are for us.  Nobody told me this & guess it should be obvious but your kids never get too old for you to continue be a parent.  Sometimes I wished I had just raised dogs.....

Thread here is a good one.  The Mothership could drop a few more $$ into HOG & make a difference.  Not that they will.

Red:  Yeah, I found out years ago that I still worry about them, even though they are adults.

Green:  Sure is.  Got a lot of response.

This is such a great forum for sharing ideas/opinions.

I wish your experience at the rally had been better, but it's great to hear everybody's stories.  Thanks for bringing this up.

[03Lightningrocks]

I joined hog right after I bought my 2013 RK last November. Couple three main reasons. One was to support a local group of riders who were respectable on the road and safe. Our local HOG group does dinner rides as a group every Firday and if you aren't in the mood or condition to ride your bike, you are welcomed to meet the group at the resteraunt. I get the impression by the way it is worder that they prefer on the folks on their bikes ride in the group. It is pretty well organized. Once the team road captains figure out where we are to eat,(some places are easier for getting Friday reservations for 25-50 riders on Friday than others), they ride the different options before hand to pick the safest routes.Where e ver we go, we have reserved parking so we can all pafrk together. They keep the dinners fun by doing things like raffles and what not for prizes that are donated by our home dealership. The dinners are also where group rides to here are ther are discussed and announced. Again, we have folks who drive the routes of the group rides to again determine which routes seem safest and most fun. They are very strict in riding rules. Things such as no riding side by side. Maintaining one bike distance between you and the person in front of you. We also keep our riding groups to around six to eight riders with a road captian in front and a road captian or volunteer in the last position. We(the groups of six-8), leave the dealership a few minutes(3-5) apart. Again, safety seems to be prioity one and our area has a lot of agressive traffic on Friday nights so it is impressive how many years they have been group riding with no incidents. When done with the dinner ride, everyone simply leaves as they want and heads for home. We also do severl events such as (easter egg hunts) and other game type rides. They are definitely family oriented in the group events. We even do competing events with other HOG group in the area. Talking about it all, I almost feel guilty for not participating more but I am a bit of a loner and following along in a group is hard for my mind to grasp. The hardest part for me is cruising along at a pace that fits different rider styles. Mostly following speed limits and such...LOL. The group I am in really has a lot of events to choose from so it is not a problem to miss a few. We even have a feller who is a pretty damned good rider who does a rider practice get together once a month or so to give everyone the shot at practicing their motor cycle safety riding. chit. The more I type, the more it occurs to me they are a pretty damned good group and that 40 bucks or what ever aint didly compared to some of the dumb sh&t I buy from the dealership.

I would never expect free merchandise at any event as the dues could in no way cover this expense. Even a pin costs more than most may realize. That stuff adds up quick. The main events usually charge some sort of "event fee" and I think I have seen stuff like T-shirts list as an optional upgrade fee. These items help cover the expenses many of us are not thinking about. You knoow. The nickle and dime stuff that can eat them alive.

My one and only concern is that our group has a very established number of folks who have already "cliched up".  It can make a new person sitting in the resteraunt feel a bit out of place. It is not intentional but it is a sneaky thing that can slowly cause new membership to decline. One easy way to know if this is happening in your group is to watch the numbers on folks who join and stop showing up after 1-4 or so get togethers.

The group I joined really seem like good folks. I am just one of those loner types. Hell, I am glad this thread was started. I am going to try to get to a few more events. I had pretty much stopped going.

One other "goody" we get is the dealership gives us 1% in points for any purchases we make at the Allen Harley. I also get 1.5% for some other darned reason. i think it is because I bought the bike from them.

[08glide]

smkblwr kinda summed alot of it up in a nutshell. I am a lifer as well, used to be very active, road capt for several yrs,led rides even when not officially rd capt. we do chapter challenges with other chapters for braggin rights, etc. as stated, local state rallies are low in attrndance as compared to the national events.  I am not as active currently as retirement has me going & doing so many other things & I just sometimes forget(old age, as stated in previous post), & if you're not active ya don't know what where & when. I have met a lot of good, no GREAT people thru HOG & have some great memories. yes a lot has changed & the dealerships really have the guiding hand in the local chapter events ( how much to support or sponsor). bottom line, HOG was created to bring everyone together to RIDE! that's what it's about, not t-shirts & trinkets. our dealership would put on "FREE" cookouts once/mo along with local bands,etc & as hog members we vol to prep food,direct parking, & see that everyone was taken care of & having a good time (this involved being there all day & sometimes the day before).    smkblwr, sorry for the lack of attendance on my part this ye. see ya this wkend I hope.

[Chains]

Lifetime member, Have never belonged to a chapter, used to go to a lot of out of town annual events but have not been to one in at least 10 years.  May try one again some day soon now that I have a little more well hell a lot more time on my hands since I retired.