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[Older Guy]

In 2011 I bought my cvo streetglide new for $ 32000, now I looked at same bike only 2016 and price is $ 37000  WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?
          Older Guy

[NitroMike]

  A few electronics, HD's attitude to never apologize for price . . . Sounds to me like you got a great deal when you bought yours. 

[grc]

In 2011 I bought my cvo streetglide new for $ 32000, now I looked at same bike only 2016 and price is $ 37000  WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?
          Older Guy

It's called corporate greed combined with customers who don't mind being raped.  They are selling fewer bikes these days, so they just jacked up the prices (and cheapened the parts and labor) to make up the revenue lost from lower sales.  They will continue to do it until the consumers get smart and stop being willing participants.  In a more competitive market, those price increases would be kept in check by the competition.  Right now Harley enjoys little competition in the heavyweight motorcycle market.  That doesn't mean it will always be that way, and I for one would love to see Polaris and others start kicking some Milwaukee azz.

Jerry

[ultrafxr]

My local dealer just put a 2016 CVO RG Ultra on the floor with a price tag of $41,299 plus freight and plus setup.  That is $1,000 over MSRP and while freight may be a legitimate add on setup should be included in the price - the MSRP price imo. 

[muddypaws]

I love Jerry's opinion...

[skippy]

Dealers are making g 4 to 5 grand on some of the cvo if sole at msr p i am trying to guy a slim s dealer cost is 15150 they want 18500 plus freight set up doc feed t@t. That BS i have one dealer at 18000 OTD but holding out ..

[MrSurly]

In 2011 I bought my cvo streetglide new for $ 32000, now I looked at same bike only 2016 and price is $ 37000  WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?          Older Guy

 The seller decided to ask a higher price. A prospective buyer decided the new price was too high...and didn't buy it.

The System is still Working.

It's called corporate greed combined with customers who don't mind being raped. Jerry

Correction: It's (still) called supply/demand and *they* are (still) willing buyers* NONE of whom have physically detained, violated or coerced and, despite the predictable knee-jerk canned-rant response to EVERY SINGLE MENTION of the MoCo marketing and prices....YOU have probably ALSO not been physically detained, violated or coerced by the dealer.

They are selling fewer bikes these days, so they just jacked up the prices (and cheapened the parts and labor) to make up the revenue lost from lower sales. Jerry

Sort of defies logic, that thinking does.

  They will continue to do it until the consumers get smart and stop being willing participants.  Jerry

Wait, I thought you said....they were victims.
 

In a more competitive market, those price increases would be kept in check by the competition.  Right now Harley enjoys little competition in the heavyweight motorcycle market.  Jerry

Completely lacking any basis in fact. Harley has MORE COMPETITION in the heavy cruiser market than than they've had in EIGHTY years!
 

That doesn't mean it will always be that way, and I for one would love to see Polaris and others start kicking some Milwaukee azz. Jerry

We know we can rely on you to vehemently call for the destruction of the EVIL MoCo.
But, hey, Consistency has value!

Dealers are making g 4 to 5 grand on some of the cvo if sole at msr p i am trying to guy a slim s dealer cost is 15150 they want 18500 plus freight set up doc feed t@t. That BS i have one dealer at 18000 OTD but holding out ..

I'm sorry, but you've touched on a sort of 'peeve' of mine. Why do you:
 1.) CARE what the dealer's cost/profit might be??
 2.) isn't the COST to YOU the ONLY thing that matters?
 3.) A quiz: (everyone)  Please answer this honestly... If dealer A offered the bike for 18000, and dealer B offered it for 18500 and every other detail was the same
You would buy from dealer A because its cheaper to you, right?
4.) Now, what if you found out that dealer A got a discount, and he was actually Making More Money than Dealer B...
Here's the real question: Would YOU pay MORE of YOUR money to Dealer B...to make sure that Dealer A didn't make more?

No, you wouldn't, because Dealer A's bike costs you less. It doesn't make a Tinker's damn what the dealer's profit or cost is. The ONLY DAMNED THING that matters is what it costs YOU.

Let's not pretend that knowing his cost makes a difference in the buying decision.

[Para Bellum]

Dealers are making g 4 to 5 grand on some of the cvo if sole at msr p i am trying to guy a slim s dealer cost is 15150 they want 18500 plus freight set up doc feed t@t. That BS i have one dealer at 18000 OTD but holding out ..

http://www.seedealercost.com/products/manufacturer-models/index/id/877/productCategorySlug/powersports

If this web site's numbers are correct, the MSRP dealer mark-up on the CVO Limited and RGU is about $8000.  On the Slim S, the mark-up is $3700 ($18,499 - 14,799).  After the owner pays for the building, land, property taxes, salesman, sales manager, and general manager, he needs something for himself.  That $18,000 OTD sounds like a pretty good deal.

Supply and demand, combined with dealer incentives and how badly they want to make that sale, will always set the price.  Unlike the socialist/communist/dictator countries, we can shop other dealers and makes, or walk away if we don't like the price.

[Road Dad]

Very interesting comments.

Capitalism = market price

Communism - regulated.

So from what I see above most prefer a communistic economy and not a capitalistic entrepreneurial landscape.

If corporation don't make money they fold. In my opinion a 15-18% EBITDA is okay on leisure products like a bike. So let me ask. What is okay for a corporation to make to not be considered corporate greed?

And if you are publicly traded who will buy shares if you don't perform = bankrupt.

Anyone commenting here actually running a larger business or is it just emotional comments?  (Running as having the total P&L, not a lowly department manager)

[SDCVO]

Very interesting comments.

Capitalism = market price

Communism - regulated.

So from what I see above most prefer a communistic economy and not a capitalistic entrepreneurial landscape.

If corporation don't make money they fold. In my opinion a 15-18% EBITDA is okay on leisure products like a bike. So let me ask. What is okay for a corporation to make to not be considered corporate greed?

And if you are publicly traded who will buy shares if you don't perform = bankrupt.

Anyone commenting here actually running a larger business or is it just emotional comments?  (Running as having the total P&L, not a lowly department manager)

Not that there is anything wrong with a "lowly department manager" as you say but yea Army, some of us do run large companies (possibly even public..) but this site is not for business discussion but absolutely for emotional, passionate discussion. we don't have to all agree with those comments but we should respect the passion/emotion that is behind them even if we know from our day jobs that those comments may be "a little out there"..

[DesertHOG]

No, you wouldn't, because Dealer A's bike costs you less. It doesn't make a Tinker's damn what the dealer's profit or cost is. The ONLY DAMNED THING that matters is what it costs YOU.

Let's not pretend that knowing his cost makes a difference in the buying decision.

Absolutely concur.

Interestingly, this Sunday I asked the owner of Santa Fe Harley how their sales where this past year compared to past performance and their targets. He admitted that they were a bit down on new bike sales volume. However, they were up on used bike sales. And furthermore, the "quality of the sales" were much better. Doesn't sounds like the cost to the buyer is coming down anytime soon at Santa Fe Harley.

DH

[sadunbar]

Very interesting comments.

Anyone commenting here actually running a larger business or is it just emotional comments? (Running as having the total P&L, not a lowly department manager)

I have... 

One way for a company to increase profitability is to improve quality and service to the customer, and increase sales and market share (increase volume) because of the improved value to the customer.  Another way for a company to increase profitability is to lower manufacturing and purchasing costs (sometimes in a manner that decreases the value of the product to the customer) while at the same time increasing the price of the product to the customer - resulting in lower volume with higher pricing.  The goal of every company had better be to make money.  How each company chooses to make money determines the continued long term viability of the company.  The business landscape is littered with examples of once strong companies that died or were overtaken by rivals because their product no longer provided value to customers.  Customers by in large do not know or care what the profit margin is for any company, as long as the product they purchase is what they perceive as value for their money.  That is true no matter the business...

[Road Dad]

I agree 100% for consumer products such a motorcycle.

[Para Bellum]

I agree 100% for consumer products such a motorcycle.

I may be reading too much into your statement, but I'll ask anyway:  Do you disagree for other products?

[HighOnHD]

MrSurly, Para Bellum and some others... 

It looks like CVO's went up around 13% since 2011. I checked and hamburger went up around 40% since 2011. I suppose since I have a small herd of cows I am REALLY raping my customers. I feel soooo bad.

Makes me wonder... if the MoCo and it's competition were to offer their bikes for free... who would ride what? I know what I would ride, and I bet some of the very same same people who currently have nothing good to say about MoCo and their bikes would change their tune completely! They would start praising the MoCo. It would be something similar to people living off of a lot of the freebees offered by the government clearly believing how great the government is, and wanting more of it.
Anyway, I still love my bike!

[JCZ]

Talk about value.  My painter recently took the rider course and got his motorcycle endorsement.  He's been renting every weekend, for weeks, a different model each time.  He even got to ride a couple CVOs last weekend at the factory demo rides.

He called me yesterday and asked if I'd go up to Los Angeles with him to look at a 2013 Street Glide (standard model....not a CVO).  We looked long and hard and I took it for a test ride.....all good.  It started out at $13,500.  I negotiated the deal with the seller and got it down to $10,000!

Miguel's first motorcycle....a 2013 Street Glide!

[Road Dad]

So some say corporate greed but do they really understand what they are talking about??

$32K and then 5 years later being $37K. Is that greed?  Well assume that every employee get 3% annual increase for five years. That will take you from 32 to 37 in five years.

So just to keep up with cost of living increases you will get from 32 to 37 in five years. Why is that corporate greed?  Seems like it is a demand from Americans feeling entitled to get a 3% annual increase?

It's called corporate greed combined with customers who don't mind being raped.  They are selling fewer bikes these days, so they just jacked up the prices (and cheapened the parts and labor) to make up the revenue lost from lower sales.  They will continue to do it until the consumers get smart and stop being willing participants.  In a more competitive market, those price increases would be kept in check by the competition.  Right now Harley enjoys little competition in the heavyweight motorcycle market.  That doesn't mean it will always be that way, and I for one would love to see Polaris and others start kicking some Milwaukee azz.

Jerry

[Twolanerider]

So some say corporate greed but do they really understand what they are talking about??

$32K and then 5 years later being $37K. Is that greed?  Well assume that every employee get 3% annual increase for five years. That will take you from 32 to 37 in five years.

So just to keep up with cost of living increases you will get from 32 to 37 in five years. Why is that corporate greed?  Seems like it is a demand from Americans feeling entitled to get a 3% annual increase?

While I'm not totally disagreeing with your premise your argument is facile in that it suggests wages are 100% of, or at least in control of, production costs.  Other things (health care as a component of personnel cost) may in fact go up more (or may not).  Materials or other production might find an offshore savings.  Yes, from 32 to 37k over five years is very neatly accounted for by approximately 3% increases.  But not by 3% salary increases.

[JCZ]

So some say corporate greed but do they really understand what they are talking about??

$32K and then 5 years later being $37K. Is that greed?  Well assume that every employee get 3% annual increase for five years. That will take you from 32 to 37 in five years.

So just to keep up with cost of living increases you will get from 32 to 37 in five years. Why is that corporate greed?  Seems like it is a demand from Americans feeling entitled to get a 3% annual increase?

It's cororate greed when I "earned" a 10% annual increase, saved the company ten times what my annual salary is) and only got 3% increase. 

What ever they charge for a given year is one thing and like many others here.....I've paid that more than once.  But it's how fast they loose value now days that causes one to have to reconsider buying new.  I can still remember the days when I was able to say "I've never sold a motorcycle for less than I paid for it".....faded memories now. 

[fastfreddy]

fact of life, pretty much every thing costs more than it did 5-10 years ago and aint worth what we paid for it. real estate, gold & silver maybe the exception but we are not talking bout that   

[skratch]

agreed.  10 years ago, I bought my new truck for $27k otd.  now, to replace this truck would cost over $50 grand.  i'd glady pay the 5k markup to $32k.

[YELLOWBIRD]

I'm so glad that I paid $29k back in 2009 for mine!
(And I thought that was crazy for a two wheeler.)

But just like everything in life, prices always go up!



YB

[Dr.D]

The new CVOs are expensive toys for the motorcycle elite. If you want to live at this level then pay up. $40'000.00 for a motorcycle is stratospheric play money. I am glad i bought one already and most likely will not buy a new one again. I am one of those that could look at another brand. Heck I have. I like Harley but no longer married to them.

[jc15025]

I got mine used at reduce price from new! I fill extremely fortunate to have this cause it seem the FLHXSE were all out of my price range until this one! 

[DesertHOG]

The new CVOs are expensive toys for the motorcycle elite. If you want to live at this level then pay up. $40'000.00 for a motorcycle is stratospheric play money. I am glad i bought one already and most likely will not buy a new one again. I am one of those that could look at another brand. Heck I have. I like Harley but no longer married to them.

Recent add to my stable. Still have my CVO but wondering when I will ride it, other than to the Redwoods and Maggie Valley.

[MrSurly]

Recent add to my stable. Still have my CVO but wondering when I will ride it, other than to the Redwoods and Maggie Valley.

I have a buddy who switched from a CVO Ultra to a GS and later that same K16 and has now switched Back....to a new Ultra..... go figure.

[Rooster]

What's that little antenna for Simon? Anyway nice looking bike. I once walked into a BMW dealer and asked what is the seat height? I looked down at my short legs and said "Wont Fit" thanks and left.  I know there are ways to lower, already did that on mine. Now with the Hammock seat my toes won't even touch the ground. So I'm still blue

[DesertHOG]

What's that little antenna for Simon? Anyway nice looking bike. I once walked into a BMW dealer and asked what is the seat height? I looked down at my short legs and said "Wont Fit" thanks and left.  I know there are ways to lower, already did that on mine. Now with the Hammock seat my toes won't even touch the ground. So I'm still blue

Little antenna is AM/FM but I think there is a Sirius antenna buried in there somewhere, I just haven't subscribed yet. I will say that the Bluetooth pairs to my helmet. More than I can say for my 15 CVO. And man of man, this thing acts like a rocket even with my big fat  a$$ on it. 160hp with 127ft# of torque, out of the box. Did a top speed test and got it to 148. Lucky to bye it right too, 2014 with 26k miles.

I'm thinking the CVO will still be my long haul MC, at least this year.

Simon

[DesertHOG]

I have a buddy who switched from a CVO Ultra to a GS and later that same K16 and has now switched Back....to a new Ultra..... go figure.

Yeah, it's a funny thing. I have the CVO, GS and K16 in the stable. I like them each for what they do best. The most comfortable riding position right now is on the GS. I am going to lower the pegs on the K16 and see how that feels. The CVO feels funny after riding the GS for an extended period. Just getting my feet onto the floor boards seems a struggle. Hmm..

[SDCVO]

You want to talk about value drop, look into a BMW GTL

[RoadDawg]

I got mine new at below MSRP out the door including tax and tags ($300 maximum tax in SC). We negotiated. Then I proceeded to put another $7,000 into the bike. No regrets. CVOs hold their value better than non-CVO Harleys. I've seen older CVOs go for astronomical prices (IMO) at my dealer. This is a great site with tons of valuable information from knowledgeable members, but the constant Harley bashing from the same few gets old. If Harley-Davidson wasn't getting a decent number of buyers for their high priced bikes they'd lower the prices. Value for any product is what the customer is willing to pay.

[DesertHOG]

You want to talk about value drop, look into a BMW GTL

Allowed me to grab my '14 GT for 33% off original MSRP.

[BigLew]

I would like to know given the current conversation about profit at the dealers and how they jack everything up, how much profit/markup there is from the MotoCo to the Dealers? So if the dealers true cost is $XXXXXX how much does the Company make?

BigLew

[HighOnHD]

 

I got mine new at below MSRP out the door including tax and tags ($300 maximum tax in SC). We negotiated. Then I proceeded to put another $7,000 into the bike. No regrets. CVOs hold their value better than non-CVO Harleys. I've seen older CVOs go for astronomical prices (IMO) at my dealer. This is a great site with tons of valuable information from knowledgeable members, but the constant Harley bashing from the same few gets old. If Harley-Davidson wasn't getting a decent number of buyers for their high priced bikes they'd lower the prices. Value for any product is what the customer is willing to pay.

Whole heartedly agree!

[DesertHOG]

I would like to know given the current conversation about profit at the dealers and how they jack everything up, how much profit/markup there is from the MotoCo to the Dealers? So if the dealers true cost is $XXXXXX how much does the Company make?

BigLew

I've read 20% on CVO. So clear $8k on $40k bike plus any extra charges.

[262 CVO 16]

 

I have... 

One way for a company to increase profitability is to improve quality and service to the customer, and increase sales and market share (increase volume) because of the improved value to the customer.  Another way for a company to increase profitability is to lower manufacturing and purchasing costs (sometimes in a manner that decreases the value of the product to the customer) while at the same time increasing the price of the product to the customer - resulting in lower volume with higher pricing.  The goal of every company had better be to make money.  How each company chooses to make money determines the continued long term viability of the company.  The business landscape is littered with examples of once strong companies that died or were overtaken by rivals because their product no longer provided value to customers.  Customers by in large do not know or care what the profit margin is for any company, as long as the product they purchase is what they perceive as value for their money.  That is true no matter the business...

[Para Bellum]

If Harley-Davidson wasn't getting a decent number of buyers for their high priced bikes they'd lower the prices.

Another approach would be to make fewer of them.

[SDCVO]

Allowed me to grab my '14 GT for 33% off original MSRP.

Perfect!

[chaos901]

I believe the dealers make most of their income on the clothes, parts, accessories and service.  The bikes are simply to get you in the door.  They make far more selling t-shirts than they do bikes.  Look at how much floor space is dedicated to the other items at the new dealerships, that is where the money is located.   

[bigchuck]

I believe the dealers make most of their income on the clothes, parts, accessories and service.  The bikes are simply to get you in the door.  They make far more selling t-shirts than they do bikes.  Look at how much floor space is dedicated to the other items at the new dealerships, that is where the money is located.   

X2. But don't forget financing and licensing rights sold

[charles05663]

I believe the dealers make most of their income on the clothes, parts, accessories and service.  The bikes are simply to get you in the door.  They make far more selling t-shirts than they do bikes.  Look at how much floor space is dedicated to the other items at the new dealerships, that is where the money is located.

At $40 for a tee shirt I can see why!

 

[HUBBARD]

I believe the dealers make most of their income on the clothes, parts, accessories and service.  The bikes are simply to get you in the door.  They make far more selling t-shirts than they do bikes.  Look at how much floor space is dedicated to the other items at the new dealerships, that is where the money is located.

I would agree that Motor Clothes and T-Shirts are a definite profit center, as are Parts, and Bike Sales, especially in volume.  But as for the highest percentages of margin on COGS, the Shop always leads the pack.  Industry standard reports a 70% margin, at full Door-Rate, with Techs being assigned to a job 85% of the time, and billing 82.5% of the time they are assigned to that particular job.  Perfect world would be better than that, but that only happens in budgets.  Lol.  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD

[Yellow09SERG]

We look only at the Harley world here, but look a little wider. Go price a new truck, hell for that matter a used one. I bet every one of us here can remember a time when $3500 would buy you a hell of a nice, jump in it and take a trip, pick up. That buys a rust bucket now and if you want anything that could ever leave the farm it's going to be $10,000. Labor at a Harley shop is what now days? $80 $90 an hour? Bet if your car makes a trip to the dealership for repairs you will pay right around that rate also?? Guess the big differences is I  can't remember going into the car dealerships to buy a Tee Shirt but sure remember at time where I could make a trip without coming home without a bag full of Harley shirt for along the Rt and I have got so fat I cant wear 3/4 of them.....lol

[Yellow09SERG]

As bad a I hate to say it....and I know I will catch crap over it, but the video that was posted in the joke section explains a whole lot as to why prices on HD is where they are IMO

[HUBBARD]

We look only at the Harley world here, but look a little wider. Go price a new truck, hell for that matter a used one. I bet every one of us here can remember a time when $3500 would buy you a hell of a nice, jump in it and take a trip, pick up. That buys a rust bucket now and if you want anything that could ever leave the farm it's going to be $10,000. Labor at a Harley shop is what now days? $80 $90 an hour? Bet if your car makes a trip to the dealership for repairs you will pay right around that rate also?? Guess the big differences is I  can't remember going into the car dealerships to buy a Tee Shirt but sure remember at time where I could make a trip without coming home without a bag full of Harley shirt for along the Rt and I have got so fat I cant wear 3/4 of them.....lol

Hehehe.  I can sure relate to that!     Later--HUBBARD

[VaEagle]

For those who have outgrown their t-shirts but still would like to see them and get more use out of them you might want to consider making a quilt out of them? A great company to work with is Campus Quilts and their product really holds up too.
http://www.campusquilt.com/
Here is a shot of one they made for me :

[HUBBARD]

Brings back memories, VaEagle!  Funny story.......My daughter and her mother made me one of those about 15 years back.  I really liked it.  I decided to use it one nite, only to discover up into the nite, her mother had conveniently left a bunch of staight pins in it!  Ouch!  LOL.  The next time I saw her, I told her how much I appreciated that quilt, and how much I liked it.  She got that "huh?" look on her face, but I never gave her the satisfaction of knowing it felt like I rolled over on a nest of yellow-jackets in the middle of the damn nite!!!   I'll try to find it, and post a picture of it...........Later--HUBBARD

[Yellow09SERG]

For those who have outgrown their t-shirts but still would like to see them and get more use out of them you might want to consider making a quilt out of them? A great company to work with is Campus Quilts and their product really holds up too.
http://www.campusquilt.com/
Here is a shot of one they made for me :

That is neat! I could get a super sized king size one made! I have kind of fixed the problem to some degree. I don't buy many shirts any more unless they happen to be one of the Looney Tune shirts and then I buy 2 sizes to large with the plan of growing into them

[Yellow09SERG]

Brings back memories, VaEagle!  Funny story.......My daughter and her mother made me one of those about 15 years back.  I really liked it.  I decided to use it one nite, only to discover up into the nite, her mother had conveniently left a bunch of staight pins in it!  Ouch!  LOL.  The next time I saw her, I told her how much I appreciated that quilt, and how much I liked it.  She got that "huh?" look on her face, but I never gave her the satisfaction of knowing it felt like I rolled over on a nest of yellow-jackets in the middle of the damn nite!!!   I'll try to find it, and post a picture of it...........Later--HUBBARD

Thank you Hubbard!!! That put a huge smile on my face