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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: BryantH on May 09, 2011, 06:40:22 PM
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As the title states, for those that had their crank checked for run-out, what's involved? Did the dealer do it? because mine told me that the MOCO will not cover them checking crank run-out if the run-out is within spec, which I understand but they told me it was a big job just to check it - big being 4 - 6 hours.
Again, this is checking run-out on the 110 engine. I'm assuming that doing so would be the same for the 110 engines released in 2007 - current production.
Last comment, I looked at the engines used in the CVO line since 1999 and realized that the 110 has been the longest in production of all of the CVO engines (5 years so far). I thought it was interesting to find this statistic as this engine appears to get the most complaints from its riders. Could be wrong but thought that was interesting.
BryantH
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As the title states, for those that had their crank checked for run-out, what's involved? Did the dealer do it? because mine told me that the MOCO will not cover them checking crank run-out if the run-out is within spec, which I understand but they told me it was a big job just to check it - big being 4 - 6 hours.
Again, this is checking run-out on the 110 engine. I'm assuming that doing so would be the same for the 110 engines released in 2007 - current production.
Last comment, I looked at the engines used in the CVO line since 1999 and realized that the 110 has been the longest in production of all of the CVO engines (5 years so far). I thought it was interesting to find this statistic as this engine appears to get the most complaints from its riders. Could be wrong but thought that was interesting.
BryantH
I think most of the time they check the cam side. This requires that the cam cover, lifters, cams and oil pump be removed and then a dial indicator is setup and you physically just measure the run out or wobble in the crank end.
On the primary side, I'm not sure how they do that because you have the splines that the compensator slides on and the end of the crank is threaded. So I'm not sure how they dial indicate in the primary side.
Most of the problems have shown up though on the oil pump side, as in actually taking out the oil pump from excessive run out.
I'm sure others here will chime in with more detail, but this is not a 1 hour job by any means.
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I think most of the time they check the cam side. This requires that the cam cover, lifters, cams and oil pump be removed and then a dial indicator is setup and you physically just measure the run out or wobble in the crank end.
On the primary side, I'm not sure how they do that because you have the splines that the compensator slides on and the end of the crank is threaded. So I'm not sure how they dial indicate in the primary side.
Most of the problems have shown up though on the oil pump side, as in actually taking out the oil pump from excessive run out.
I'm sure others here will chime in with more detail, but this is not a 1 hour job by any means.
Start to finish, it's easily a 3 to 4 hour job if you have adjustable pushrods. Pushing 4-5 hours if you have stock pushrods.
Why are you considering checking runout? Are you just curious or are you having an issue?
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The process is the same for all Twin Cam engines; remove the rocker covers, rockers, pushrods, and lifters so you can remove the cam chest cover, cam plate, cams, and oil pump. This will expose the pinion shaft of the flywheel assembly (crankshaft). Attach a dial indicator to the engine case such that the plunger is perpendicular to the cam plate bearing surface of the shaft, rotate the crank and record the variation as measured by the dial indicator. For a 1999 to 2006 Twin Cam, acceptable readings will be in the zero to .003" range. For the current junk, acceptable is whatever the crooks in Milwaukee determine it to be after figuring out how much it would cost them to replace all the bad ones. So far that analysis has resulted in changing the max runout tolerance from .003" to .012". I assume when they get their next large batch of junk, the spec tolerance will be changed again to reflect whatever level of crap they have on hand. Makes me want to run right out and buy one.
As for Harley paying to do all of this, don't hold your breath. If there are symptoms that point to a runout problem, Harley may authorize the dealer to do this sort of inspection. However, if you just want to do this because you've heard all the stories and want some peace of mind, sorry but warranty doesn't cover that.
Jerry
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Thanks for the responses,
I'm not having problems at the moment - I thought I was before I had my compensator replaced with the SE compensator - all is much quieter and it runs better. But when it was in the shop getting serviced and I didn't know if the SE compensator would cure my bad starting and noise coming from the left side when in neutral, I asked my dealer to also check crank run-out. That's when they mentioned it was a big job and they called MOCO and the MOCO stated that they don't pay to check crank run-out if I want them to and if the dealer chose to do so, its on my dime.
I do have the extended warrantee and plan to run her for as long as I can. Also, I have over 15,000 on my SERG and I remember reading a few treads that when the 110 engine get upwards of 20,000+, the crank run-out may begin to show its self.
Just want to be prepared - again, thanks for the replies.
BryantH
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Also, I have over 15,000 on my SERG and I remember reading a few treads that when the 110 engine get upwards of 20,000+, the crank run-out may begin to show its self.
Just want to be prepared - again, thanks for the replies.
BryantH
My 09 SEUC was checked at 20K miles, it was fine.
It was checked at 49965 miles, no change.
Was I lucky, don't know, bike was sold.
SBB
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Thanks SBB,
I read many of your post, I hope my 09 follows in your 09's foot steps. I really love this bike.
BryantH
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Please tell me what symptoms indicate excessive run out?
Jerry you are not bitter are you? ;D Your theory seems perfectly logical and good business sense.
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I'm not even close to the mechanical knowledge compared to those that answered so thoroughly on this post. I was not going to pay a dealer and I don't have the ability to do it the correct way so the way I did it was to remove the cam cover, sprockets and chain using a few borrowed tools. I used a dial indicator and it read .0045 on the runout so I'm hoping that since I measured at the farthest point it would only read better if I had them do it properly as Jerry described. But then again maybe my method is totally useless and I just wasted my time. I had to replace a badly worn cam chain tensioner so it was only another step to get a reading. Has anyone taken a reading where I did and then another one where it should be done? Just curious as to the difference, if any? I really expected it to be much worse, oh I had over 40,000 miles on my 08 SERK.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjpujEtYEI8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ABdzSrge0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0DEXYlo_ac&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHliBiAqftg&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5YI6gkepGc&NR=1
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I'm sure MoCo's policy on this is seeing the engine would require replacing if out of spec they prefer a catastrophic failure before
dealing with any issue. :oops: If it still runs it must be good ;D