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Custom Vehicle Discussions => Screamin' Eagle® Road King® => Topic started by: 07_Flhrse3 on March 21, 2007, 07:06:37 PM
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It would really be nice if all you 2007 SERK owners out there posted you dyno results in one place so that those of us who have not made any changes yet, can take advantage of your hard earned money well spent and your experience.
thanks in advance, Otter
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It would really be nice if all you 2007 SERK owners out there posted you dyno results in one place so that those of us who have not made any changes yet, can take advantage of your hard earned money well spent and your experience.
thanks in advance, Otter
Here is mine, sorry no baseline..
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Here is mine, sorry no baseline..
Miker,
In looking at the information on the bottom of that sheet, 6:37 AM 91 deg 19% RH? On Feb 28 in S. FL?
I am suspicious.
Chief
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Good point, I'll ask aboout it. I know Thursday am when I picked it up it was in the mid 80's . Seems summer comes earlier every year and is hotter. I post when I find some data.
MR
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Miker,
In looking at the information on the bottom of that sheet, 6:37 AM 91 deg 19% RH? On Feb 28 in S. FL?
I am suspicious.
Chief
Would that be the room temp, maybe they don't have a good A/C system in the dyno room?
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V&H slip-ons, SERT, and K&N filter added at the 500 mile mark. Dyno turning done during 1,000 mile service. Keep in mind the numbers are realitive, the best way to compare actual numbers is to complete the runs on the same dyno on the same day. During the VROD rally in September there's always a DYNO shoot out on the same machine. We'd have guys with all sorts of claims but this put everyone on the same playing field. Anyway:
Skinny line = pre-tune
Thick line = post-tune
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V&H slip-ons, SERT, and K&N filter added at the 500 mile mark. Dyno turning done during 1,000 mile service. Keep in mind the numbers are realitive, the best way to compare actual numbers is to complete the runs on the same dyno on the same day. During the VROD rally in September there's always a DYNO shoot out on the same machine. We'd have guys with all sorts of claims but this put everyone on the same playing field. Anyway:
Skinny line = pre-tune
Thick line = post-tune
Better them that, test it at the Drag Strip! Tune 'til you get your best consistant times. That's how S&S has recommended tuning their carbs for years! ;) Hoist! 8)
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Would that be the room temp, maybe they don't have a good A/C system in the dyno room?
Actually it is in a trailer that gets hotter than J-Lows butt.
I may believe the temp ifin the trailer were in the sun that morning, I think his clock may have been wrong.
91 in Sofla is not some sort of unusual event even in winter.
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Actually it is in a trailer that gets hotter than J-Lows butt.
I may believe the temp ifin the trailer were in the sun that morning, I think his clock may have been wrong.
91 in Sofla is not some sort of unusual event even in winter.
Now that is hot :bananarock:
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Now that is hot :bananarock:
Lucky motorcycle
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Lucky motorcycle
Rog,
You are just a treasure trove of images. :2vrolijk_21:
Chief
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Basic mods.
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Basic mods.
That looks like some very nice numbers for being basic, you have to love that.
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So what exactly were the basic mods Kojak ?
If I'm reading that right the before A/F line sure shows you how far off the mark these babies are when they come from the MoCo.
Nige
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Seems like there should be a lot more potential with this much displacement.
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Basic (safe)mods were RH TD's, SERT, K&N. Was looking for mostly mid range torque. Bike was way lean in stock config. Run's sweet now! Yeah, you can probably get 125+TQ with changing cams, compression etc etc. Dont have enough faith in this motor yet.
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How do these dyno’s work, do they contain an algorithm capable of projecting out what the torque and power would most possibly be if it were capable of turning that many rpms? I’m just curious because I would think that the stock runs should end at 5400.
Gregg
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Those are actual rpm's. Stock config maxes at around 5400k. With modified ecm, you can raise the rev limit.
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Kojak2;
Do you have heated grips on a 2007 SERK?
I was under the impression that this couldn't be done with internally wired bars. Am I wrong or did I read the MoCo catalog wrong?
leoniru
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I applied a new product that I waited 9 months for and am very pleased with its function. http://www.symtec-inc.com/heatdemon.htm I have installed 2 sets and they work great. No more need to feed Harley for their inferior product. :bananarock:
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Leoniru, thats a bunch of MoCo bs! They put heated grips on the SEEG and its all internally wired. My dealer did the install, I picked molded rubber and chrome grips. Now they have matching ironside heated grips. Put them on last november and its been fine. :)
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I picked up my SERK late this afternoon (See PICTURES). I haven't seen the chart yet, but Brian Rose at Bumpus says that I got 101 on the HP and 119 on the torque. I just did a K&N high flow filter, D&D Fatcats, and SERT and Brian doing the dyno tuning (See Brian Rose/Bumpus in VENDOR). I'll post the chart (graph) as soon as I get it.
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I wanted to establish a base-line before I did any performance mods to my new SERK. It has 1000 miles on it, so I would consider it "broke-in". Bumpus Harley Davidson was offering free dyno runs today so I just couldn't pass up the opportunity. As you can see from the attached image, my 100% stock SERK is making 88.26 hp and 99.34 ft-lbs of torque. It is interesting to note how flat the torque curve is - the motor is making about 95 ft-lbs from 2500 rpm to almost 5000 rpm.
On a different subject, they were also offering demo rides today. I rode the new "Nightster" and was really impressed with the extra power it makes over the standard sportster I drove a year ago. I enjoyed riding it, but anyone taller than me (I am 5'8") would probably want/need forward controls.
I also drove the Screamin' Eagle Springer, which I almost bought instead of my SERK. I really liked the Springer - very good power - but the Road King was the right choice for me.
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Whoa! You're almost in the 100HP Club with a stock bike! SWEET! With the power these 110s are making, Bumpus may need to change it to the 120HP Club to keep from giving away too many shirts!
(http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12870.0;attach=29113;image)
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Lol JR wont like this hes got some of those shirts :drink:
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Whoa! You're almost in the 100HP Club with a stock bike! SWEET! With the power these 110s are making, Bumpus may need to change it to the 120HP Club to keep from giving away too many shirts!
(http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12870.0;attach=29113;image)
Brian,
It seems that the 110s are making torque, but without the same kind of increases in HP. I've been told that it's the cam that they are using in the 110s as provided by the MOCO. I got a graph of my dyno results today. I'll get them scanned in and posted.
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Seems like just yesterday 90hp was a big deal. John Golden used to give anyone who made 90hp on his dyno a t-shirt.
B B
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Here's the graph on my bike with the K&N high flow filter, D&D Fatcats with the standard baffel, and SERT. Dyno work by Brian Rose of Bumpus HD Memphis.
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Sorry that the quality of my image is not better. The peak HP is 101.16 and the peak torque is 119.42. I did nothing more to the bike than the filter, exhaust, and SERT.
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Brian,
It seems that the 110s are making torque, but without the same kind of increases in HP. I've been told that it's the cam that they are using in the 110s as provided by the MOCO. I got a graph of my dyno results today. I'll get them scanned in and posted.
Preston, duh, you're right, I was looking at the TQ number and thinking about HP. I guess the 100HP Club is still somewhat sacred. :huepfenlol2: Still, the 110s are dramatically more healthy in stock configuration than any 103 ever was. No two ways about it, those are some strong numbers! :2vrolijk_21:
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Now that's great numbers wise. :2vrolijk_21: Did he tweak your air-fuel ratio down to a straight line or ?
Joe
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That looks more like a power curve for a ducatti than a harley tc!
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Okay, I'm going to try this one more time.
Here is my dyno sheet.
And here is the list of mods.
Rinehart True Duals
Arlen Ness Big Sucker A/C
SERT
SE251 cams
SE adjustable pushrods
CP 10.5:1 pistons
Horse Power Inc. 51MM throttle body
Later,
Ghost
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I mean Son! What a beast...It probably makes the cup holder obsolete has the beverage of choice would probably spill out on acceleration. Wowzers
Miker
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Ghost - Those are some outstanding results with such a short list of parts. Thanks for the information!
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Ghost - Those are some outstanding results with such a short list of parts. Thanks for the information!
Short but costly my friend. Very costly. :bananarock:
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Basic mods.
may i ask what are basic mods?? thansks
Happy
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Happyman (greatmoniker!),
See my tagline below for the mods. Here is some advice on the 110's. This is my opinion, there are members on this site that feel differently. Harley designed this motor to run super lean to meet epa standards. The factory will tell you this right upfront. This causes this engine to run hot! They also incorporated new technology into this motor like an adaptive (learning)fuel injection system, an optional heat management system where you can take the rear cylinde offlline to cool in rush hour traffic situations. Ownes have reported on this site and others blown seals, misaligned flywheels, misaligned pinion gears, starter issues, loose compensator nuts etc etc. I chose to do bolt-on mods (exhaust, ac, sert) till I feel more confident in my motor to change cams, pistons etc. Most aftemarket vendors dont have their act together on this particular motor, some disable the closed loop functions on the efi, some replace the delphi unit completely, most aftermarket exhausts are dseigned for the tc 88 and tweaked for the tc 96, you get the idea. There is a lot of info on this site. Read it, take it all with a grain of salt, do your own research and start changing carefully.
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First attempt at Dyno Tune. It was manual Dyno-Tuning, as the Tuning Link was not setup yet. Spent time setting up the AFR's first. Then went back for the Tuning Pulls. We didn't use separate cylinder tuning or have time to tweak it good. But for a fairly quick tune, the number's aren't too bad. I see 5-10 more ponies and 5-10 more lb-ft TQ hiding in those cases, instead of at the rear wheel, where they belong! When I get back from my trip, I should have around 5K miles on. Then it's going back to compare and play with the tuning link and do individual cylinder tuning! I payed for those ponies and I'd like the rest of them to come out and play too! ;) Hoist! 8)
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First attempt at Dyno Tune. It was manual Dyno-Tuning, as the Tuning Link was not setup yet. Spent time setting up the AFR's first. Then went back for the Tuning Pulls. We didn't use separate cylinder tuning or have time to tweak it good. But for a fairly quick tune, the number's aren't too bad. I see 5-10 more ponies and 5-10 more lb-ft TQ hiding in those cases, instead of at the rear wheel, where they belong! When I get back from my trip, I should have around 5K miles on. Then it's going back to compare and play with the tuning link and do individual cylinder tuning! I payed for those ponies and I'd like the rest of them to come out and play too! ;) Hoist! 8)
Looking good Howie. I would think your right you should have a few more horses to get out of that set up. It sounds like from one of your other posts, that you "in the saddle" dyno, tells you she's running even stronger than this sheet of paper shows. :bananarock:
Ride Safe this weekend Brother. Lookin' forward to seeing you and your better half next week at HB's.
Later,
Travis
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Looking good Howie. I would think your right you should have a few more horses to get out of that set up. It sounds like from one of your other posts, that you "in the saddle" dyno, tells you she's running even stronger than this sheet of paper shows. :bananarock:
Ride Safe this weekend Brother. Lookin' forward to seeing you and your better half next week at HB's.
Later,
Travis
Thanks Travis, looking forward to seeing/riding with you too! My butt dyno definitely feels the increased power/TQ! The bike went right up to 120. Before tuning it went right up to 110. It also reduced oil temp by 20 deg under similar conditions. I'm hoping to get it even better. Til the winter. Then....well let's keep that a secret for now! ;) Hoist! 8)
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Had my serk in to replace the fuel module(pump). Wasn't running right, thought the sensors were acting up, turned out to be the fuel module. Had Battlefield HD put it on the Dyno and tune it one last time. Came out with 102.06hp and 121.5tq and the tq curve hits about a 100 at 1800 rpm. The tech did a great job, knows what he's doing!
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Hope it works.Scanners not working.
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Here's mine. Just did the 1K service, and had V&H Dual Headers, V&H Ovals, and SERT put on. Stock A/C. I see my numbers are quite a bit lower than others...wonder what I can do to bump them up? Bike sounds nice now. Wish I had a base line Dyno to compare. Don't feel any lack of TQ or HP from stock set up. Was worries about that for a bit. Max TQ=100.10, Max HP=82.10.
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Dont know how this post ended up here?
Stage1 and PCIIIR at 1000 miles
Done by Lakeshore Harley Davidson in Libetryville, IL:
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My baseline was a 100 torque and 90 hp. Looks like you might have a lot more potential in your motor. Need a hi-flow a\c to finis the job. Also the SERT needs a skilled tech to tune right.
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My baseline was a 100 torque and 90 hp. Looks like you might have a lot more potential in your motor. Need a hi-flow a\c to finis the job. Also the SERT needs a skilled tech to tune right.
My bike is a 2003 103 ci not a 07 and it does have the Stage 1 download, high flow aircleaner as well as the PCIIIR and Reinhart True Duals. The tuner I took it too is very well know and i do trust him.
Believe me its more then enough HP and TQ for me.
Thanks,
John
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:) Thats all that matters! Happy riding.
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:) Thats all that matters! Happy riding.
Yup, wish I had the $$ for the SE3 though :nixweiss:
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The boss has the auto, I got 2 harleys thats it. No car payment.
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The boss has the auto, I got 2 harleys thats it. No car payment.
Does That mean that the boss has a car payment? :nixweiss:
Hey Man See you at the big Damn Bike Show on 6/16? Check it out in the events section.
Wayne
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One car payment is better than 2 or lack of 2nd car payment equals 2 harleys? I got her convinced that all that counts! I'll be in Laconia June 14-17 Wayne. We'll have to get together next local deal after that. :)
Casey
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Just had Dyno done on my 07 SERK-90.47 HP and 103.62 torque. I have V&H slip ons with the stock air filter-will a K&N make much difference??? I also had a EFI Race Tuner Kit installed. The bike runs great.
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Just had Dyno done on my 07 SERK-90.47 HP and 103.62 torque. I have V&H slip ons with the stock air filter-will a K&N make much difference???
Go the correct way, get a high flow aircleaner and also the PCIII, then you will see a big difference. Best place for the PCIII would be http://www.fuelmotousa.com/ as Jamie can actually istall the program needed for what you have on your bike at no extra charge and also gives a extra year warranty. Since he is a large Dynojet Dyno shop most of his downloads are near perfect. Say 95% compared to having your bike re-dynod for close to 100% effency.
Bottom line if you want to put a high flow air filter you will have to do somthing with the bike as having a high flow aircleaner and running the stock program the bike will be running way too lean.
Stay away from the HD stage 1 download as you bike will never run right!
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My baseline was a 100 torque and 90 hp. Looks like you might have a lot more potential in your motor. Need a hi-flow a\c to finis the job. Also the SERT needs a skilled tech to tune right.
I have a Rinehart 2-1, sert and SE air cleaner. It tuned to around 119 ft/lbs Tq and 97 hp....AF ratio around 13.5 across the board. It is a little flat on the bottom so maybe some Wood cams are in the future.
Miker
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I have a Rinehart 2-1, sert and SE air cleaner. It tuned to around 119 ft/lbs Tq and 97 hp....AF ratio around 13.5 across the board. It is a little flat on the bottom so maybe some Wood cams are in the future.
Miker
That's good numbers for a stock tune Mike. A cam will definitely help! These cams have terrible bottoms and tops too, under 3000 and over 4500 RPM. Once you start with cams, it's hard to stop short of doing other trick things too though! ::) Hoist! 8)
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That's good numbers for a stock tune Mike. A cam will definitely help! These cams have terrible bottoms and tops too, under 3000 and over 4500 RPM. Once you start with cams, it's hard to stop short of doing other trick things too though! ::) Hoist! 8)
Yup....true that H, it runs ok....have you got a direction for cams? What sinister plans do you have?
I hate the front end suspension much I may do the traxx cartridges 1st. The Progressive 440's and rid-Str8 has helped the back half so much the puny seat is a little, very little more comfy....No word from my painter in 2 weeks, I think that is a good sign.?
Miker
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SERT/Power Commander, SERT/Power Commander ??? Having trouble finally making my mind up here guys. Which way seems to produce the best numbers ??
Nige
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SERT/Power Commander, SERT/Power Commander ??? Having trouble finally making my mind up here guys. Which way seems to produce the best numbers ??
Nige
I like the sert...It is not trying to fool the the ecm, it is working within it. JMHO of course.
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SERT/Power Commander, SERT/Power Commander ??? Having trouble finally making my mind up here guys. Which way seems to produce the best numbers ??
Nige
Hey Nige, you know the drill! It doesn't matter. Use whichever your tuner knows best and recommends. Tuning is the key to unlocking everything in these engines! ;) Hoist! 8)
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I think we have :beatdeadhorse: on this one a bunch. I may be regurgitating information from the guys with the brains/experience, but the consensus is find a competent tuner and use what he is comfortable with. They all have their advantages and faithful following but when it comes down to it...unless you are very technical and computer savvy, the tune is what makes the device not vice versa. Find a competent tuner and see what he likes you won't be disappointed.
Would love to take credit for those $.02, but cant
Seegarz ::)
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I think we have :beatdeadhorse: on this one a bunch. I may be regurgitating information from the guys with the brains/experience, but the consensus is find a competent tuner and use what he is comfortable with. They all have their advantages and faithful following but when it comes down to it...unless you are very technical and computer savvy, the tune is what makes the device not vice versa. Find a competent tuner and see what he likes you won't be disappointed.
Would love to take credit for those $.02, but cant
Seegarz ::)
Give that man a Seegar! :D Hoist! 8)
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SERT/Power Commander, SERT/Power Commander ??? Having trouble finally making my mind up here guys. Which way seems to produce the best numbers ??
Nige
Nige,
The final numbers are not dependant on the device, but are dependant on the quality of the tune.
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Hey Nige, you know the drill! It doesn't matter. Use whichever your tuner knows best and recommends. Tuning is the key to unlocking everything in these engines! ;) Hoist! 8)
I've gone with the PC Howie. Install at end of week. Already downloaded the m812-025 map to the ole puter in readiness.
Nige
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I've gone with the PC Howie. Install at end of week. Already downloaded the m812-025 map to the ole puter in readiness.
Nige
Sounds good Nige. You won't be keeping that map in long though. I'm predicting you're in for your 1K mi service and dyno tuning within a week! ;) Enjoy it Nige! Hoist! 8)
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I just had my bike dyno tuned after a 1000 mile stock break-in period by "Big Mike" Burrows from Bumpus Harley Davidson. With the addition of Reinhart True Duals, a K&N filter and SERT it developed 102 HP and 120 foot-pounds of Torque. I'm very happy with the results and would recommend Mike to anyone interested in getting the most out of their machine.
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2007 FLHRSE
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2007 FLHRSE
What, if any mods/work, you have done with this run?
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Nice to see guys! Good tunes and numbers! :2vrolijk_21: We're starting to see consistent tunes, stock engines with just pipes and A/C, all at around 100 HP and 110-120 TQ. Consistent tuning curves too. Man, you can really see what I'm feeling and talking about, when I say the cam kicks in at over 2500 RPM (and not good til 3000) and falls down at around 4500 RPM. That's what I mean by a narrow throttle range (power band), and where you want to stay on the cams. This requires a lot of short-shifting to stay on them all the time. If you care that is! ::) Here's where a goo set of cams come in. To kick things in at 2500 and pull all the way to 6 grand! That's when this will feel like a performance Harley Davidson! ;)
Hoist! 8)
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Nice to see guys! Good tunes and numbers! :2vrolijk_21: We're starting to see consistent tunes, stock engines with just pipes and A/C, all at around 100 HP and 110-120 TQ. Consistent tuning curves too. Man, you can really see what I'm feeling and talking about, when I say the cam kicks in at over 2500 RPM (and not good til 3000) and falls down at around 4500 RPM. That's what I mean by a narrow throttle range (power band), and where you want to stay on the cams. This requires a lot of short-shifting to stay on them all the time. If you care that is! ::) Here's where a goo set of cams come in. To kick things in at 2500 and pull all the way to 6 grand! That's when this will feel like a performance Harley Davidson! ;)
Hoist! 8)
Where do I git me sum of them 2500 pullers at ?!!!!
Cain't wait to see yer runs sheets Howie!
Miker
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Where do I git me sum of them 2500 pullers at ?!!!!
Cain't wait to see yer runs sheets Howie!
Miker
Thanks miker, me too. This chit has been 2 months in the making now, and started with a just a head gasket leak. Now..... ::) I'm getting good vibes from this new dealer. I'll let you know when it's done and tuned. Probably be about 2 weeks from now by the time I get in for tuning. Hopefully, those hardbags will be back by then, and the bike will be done for now. Oh yeah, still waiting on the Traxxion shocks too. ;)
Hoist! 8)
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These numbers are looking pretty good with just the basic mods of A/C, pipes and P/C SERT etc.
I'm now installed with a P/C III on an m812-025 map, Doherty Powerpacc with Powervents and V & H slip on ovals. She isn't run in yet, but already i can feel that she has plenty of power to play with. Can't wait to hit the 1k mark and then get her finally set up on the Dyno.
Happy days ;D
Nige
P.S. why did you have to start bringing cams into the equation Howie ??? ;)
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What, if any mods/work, you have done with this run?
Race Tuner, D & D FatCat Exhaust. and 6 hours of DYNO time
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FLHRSE,
It took 6 HRS to dial it in properly???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :confused5: :o
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FLHRSE,
It took 6 HRS to dial it in properly???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :confused5: :o
I had one of the first FatCat released by D & D Exhaust for the 2007 110' motor. D & D Dynoed there 110' motor 6 weeks after I installed mine. D & D sent me a new can with a revamped baffle for my informing them on the numbers, etc.
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Thanks miker, me too. This chit has been 2 months in the making now, and started with a just a head gasket leak. Now..... ::) I'm getting good vibes from this new dealer. I'll let you know when it's done and tuned. Probably be about 2 weeks from now by the time I get in for tuning. Hopefully, those hardbags will be back by then, and the bike will be done for now. Oh yeah, still waiting on the Traxxion shocks too. ;)
Hoist! 8)
Hey Howie - have you plugged your O2 sensors and if so what with ?
Nige
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Hey Howie - have you plugged your O2 sensors and if so what with ?
Nige
As of now, I've still have them in the headpipes, but disconnected, w/O2 Elims. I'll probably remove them completely when I change exhaust. That K&N plug that grc suggested, looks like it'll work. And I mention cams, because this thing needs cams. I actually hope to be finished by Sat, and get it in for tuning! ;) Hoist! 8)
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From the TB Size thread, Rich 07's Dyno chart and comments, cause us SERK guys don't see enough of them. ;D
"See my Dyno chart attached. 50mm TB, SE251 cams, PCIII, and D&D Fatcats. I am not impressed with the numbers but it rides great."
Rich
And I think we can make it do better. ;)
Hoist! 8)
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Hey dood, I just noticed that you changed the title! Thanks man! :2vrolijk_21: This is now the official thread of the SERK Dyno Runs!!! ;)
Hoist! 8)
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Hey dood, I just noticed that you changed the title! Thanks man! :2vrolijk_21: This is now the official thread of the SERK Dyno Runs!!! ;)
Hoist! 8)
Wow!!!! Finally found something you are slow at. :shocked2: That has been changed since you asked me about it. :huepfenlol2:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Wow!!!! Finally found something you are slow at. :shocked2: That has been changed since you asked me about it. :huepfenlol2:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
;D ;D ;D I even posted here the other day! ;) Hoist! 8)
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Hey gang! For the record, here's the Dyno run for my upgraded '07A FLHRSE3TQ! 120HP and 126.2 ft-lbs TQ! Reworked heads and CR Custom 595 Cams by Cycle-rama, 62 mm HPI TB w/HPI A/C and 4.89 injectors, stock pistons and cylinders, D&D FatCAts w/Quiet Performance Muffler and PC III. Lots of bulletproof chit up there too. I'll save all that for the final overall build report. It was tuned by Joe Bramski of Joes Cycle Repair in Mechanicville, NY. He's a Tuning Master that I recommend highly! He tells me the bike rides phenomenally! It pulls at any RPM. I can't wait to pick it up tomorrow! I'll let you know how it feels! ;)
Hoist! 8)
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Congrats on the dyno...
That baby just pulls all the way up to 6k. I bet you feel that in the seat of your pants.
I can only imagine what I'm going to be saying when I upgrade from my stock '76 FLH to the still stock '08 SERK.
I figure in my case just over double the rear wheel hp. In your case a LOT stronger pulling motor with a VERY flat power curve.
I understand the new '08 has a 50mm TB already. What was the '07, 46 or 48mm?
Again good luck on your new found power. I'm really interested to see the build in a full report.
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Congrats on the dyno...
That baby just pulls all the way up to 6k. I bet you feel that in the seat of your pants.
I can only imagine what I'm going to be saying when I upgrade from my stock '76 FLH to the still stock '08 SERK.
I figure in my case just over double the rear wheel hp. In your case a LOT stronger pulling motor with a VERY flat power curve.
I understand the new '08 has a 50mm TB already. What was the '07, 46 or 48mm?
Again good luck on your new found power. I'm really interested to see the build in a full report.
Thanks Dan, I can't wait to ride it tomorrow! Full build report will follow after the rest of the things are done. Before the end of the month (better be!). You'll love the 110 compared to your 80". but you'll still need to improve it a little too! ;)
Hoist! 8)
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What, if any mods/work, you have done with this run?
Motor # 2 numbers
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The bike had RH slip-ons installed, dynoed for four hours and the dealer wouldn't give me the map. And the bike ain't right now....very sluggish and far too loud - no baffles.
The graph shows 82 HP peak but it sure feels like less than stock to me. Low end torque is gone.
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Oh, and I need to add: whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! And that's the truth!
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Update: got it fixed! A little too much fuel was all....
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Didn't intend to stop this thread dead!
Update: replaced the Rinehart slip ons with the stock mufflers, had a dealer remap it back close to stock and the bike is back! Low end torque is back and very much better than with the dyno tune....evidently the tuner was having a bad day. :alcohol:
Thundermax is an interesting device...... :yes:
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Hey gang! For the record, here's the Dyno run for my upgraded '07A FLHRSE3TQ! 120HP and 126.2 ft-lbs TQ!
Hoist! 8)
Holy sheet, Hoist. 120 horses with no increase in capacity. They are some big, impressive numbers. Way to go!!! :jalapeno:
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2008 FLHRSE4 with:
- Rinehart TDs
- Screamin Eagle Stage 1 air cleaner
- SERT
- Dyno tune
98.27 hp and 115.15 lb ft. :2vrolijk_21:
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O8 SERK just dyno'd - only add-ons RHTD's, SERT, and SE AC
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HP 109.26 Torque 119.34
Upgrades:
SE 257 Cam Kit
Quick install pushrod kit
SE 50mm Throttle Body
SE Heavy Breather Air Cle
EFI Race Tuner Kit (replaced ThunderMax)
Dyno
Amsoil 20W50
Completed last Friday 11/02/2007
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My SERK 600 miles on her at the time of the dyno. Add ons, Rush Slip ons Stock AC. Power Commander PC 111 and Dyno Mapped
91.36 HP Torque 112.17
That was back In August
Now November 4th and 3,500 miles later and I'm back to stock, removed the Rush Slip- ons and the power commander.
The reason for going back to stock? Vibration, I think I have a bad crank AKA crank-run out .
She is going in the shop next week for a check on the crank run -out I will keep you all posted.
It' is a dam shame She was just stating to get up and go
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Just got my bike Dyno'd with custom map..SERK 08, Race Tuner, SE stage 1, Rinehart TD. Pipes sound awesome and it's got some get up and go. Max #'s were 91.8 HP, and max Torque 108.49 at rear wheel....seeing numbers all over the board here....just wondering were I stand...and anyone know what HP was at stock?? Thanks, Dean
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...and here's my run. Dean
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Just got my bike Dyno'd with custom map..SERK 08, Race Tuner, SE stage 1, Rinehart TD. Pipes sound awesome and it's got some get up and go. Max #'s were 91.8 HP, and max Torque 108.49 at rear wheel....seeing numbers all over the board here....just wondering were I stand...and anyone know what HP was at stock?? Thanks, Dean
Pretty typical curve for that setup with stock 255 cams. Looks like a good tune. Bike should pull OK to 4 grand. Good luck and enjoy it ski! :2vrolijk_21:
Stock numbers don't really matter HD only quotes TQ, and that's at the engine, not the rear wheel. I'm guessing about 70-75 HP at the rear wheel. ;)
Hoist! 8)
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This is the dyno ( 95.3 HP and 102.3 Torque) on m 2003 Road King SE with the 103 engine, Rhinehart True Duals exhaust, and SERT, I hace the 08 CUSE also with just 400 miles and would hope to dyno better numbers than you are getting. Why the 110 engine with all the heat problems if you cant get a 100+ horespower or better?
Jim
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Hey gang! For the record, here's the Dyno run for my upgraded '07A FLHRSE3TQ! 120HP and 126.2 ft-lbs TQ! Reworked heads and CR Custom 595 Cams by Cycle-rama, 62 mm HPI TB w/HPI A/C and 4.89 injectors, stock pistons and cylinders, D&D FatCAts w/Quiet Performance Muffler and PC III. Lots of bulletproof chit up there too. I'll save all that for the final overall build report. It was tuned by Joe Bramski of Joes Cycle Repair in Mechanicville, NY. He's a Tuning Master that I recommend highly! He tells me the bike rides phenomenally! It pulls at any RPM. I can't wait to pick it up tomorrow! I'll let you know how it feels! ;)
Hoist! 8)
A long time ago in a faraway place before things went awry, Howie the Happy Camper made this post. As I've read several other threads and watched different builds on 103's, I can't help but wonder why a 110 producing the numbers Howie quotes above didn't hold up. 126tq/120hp certainly should be a reliable build when one looks at all the 103's getting similar numbers that are runnin down the road just fine many thousands of miles later. Is the 110 truly a lemon engine ? I mean, I know we all like to pick on Howie, but as I've read his posts since he came on the site, it's not exactly like the guy just up and bought his first H-D last year. He's been at this awhile and in spite of some back and forth on another thread that got a bit personal, I have to say that a guy of Howie's years and experience should not be having the issues he is with his 110. Since so many others have spoken up and complained about their 110's, I'm going to offer up this observation. H-D built the 110 as a bigger platform for their CVO line-up and due to increasingly restrictive emissions laws did not engineer the motor with performance mods in mind. This thought occurred to me when they went with the 110 vice the 113 which they already had most everything available for in their SE catalogue. Watching this motor underperform and more importantly not respond well to performance mods has conviced me I am right.
Just my $0.02
B B
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Since so many others have spoken up and complained about their 110's, I'm going to offer up this observation. H-D built the 110 as a bigger platform for their CVO line-up and due to increasingly restrictive emissions laws did not engineer the motor with performance mods in mind. This thought occurred to me when they went with the 110 vice the 113 which they already had most everything available for in their SE catalogue. Watching this motor underperform and more importantly not respond well to performance mods has conviced me I am right.
Just my $0.02
B B
Very well said.
I am one of the guys having 110 issues. Ive been riding for over 35 years. This my 8th motorcycle / 6th Harley. I have had little to no problems other than routine maintance or minor stuff like replacing a chain, something vibrating off.
When your riding your new scoot with only 3673 miles and you notice a head gasket leak your not happy. When your told the leak is actually because of a cylinder liner problem, your pissed. When they tell you it's a know problem and the only fix they offer is to use a new cylinder they can not assure you is any better than the mess up one, your frustrated and angry with no one you can truely hold accountable, yet!
I'm no engine builder. It does not make sense to me that a 110 can't run well but a 103 or 113 from the same company can. I still believe the MoCo will end up fixing the problem. I just refuse to wait for it. As I am fortunate enough to be able to afford to do it now myself, I am fixing it now. That is a personal decision.
All companies go through production problems. The ones that respond to the issues and fix them survive. I hope Harley will and does.
JW
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Since you're using my quote, I'll address this as I see it.
First, the 110 is no more or less of a candidate for performance upgrades than the 96/103, on which it's based. Any performance work done with the stock HD bottom end is risky. HD's problems with the 110 are unique for other reasons. HD tested and developed this engine/trans/primary design as the 96" package. They knew that they can bolt on a 103" package too, just like their 88" converted to 95". Then they said "Oh chit! What do we do for the CVO's if everyone can build a 103 now? Let's just bore it out bigger, slap some SE heads on (don't have time to cast new heads, so just rivet the SE110 emblems on), bigger TB, and a quickly developed EPA set of cams, make it even leaner, and call it a CVO motor! That's JMO, but I can't be too far off. No testing. The 96" is tested. Why wouldn't just a little bigger bore work too.
The HD 113" is SE stuff, and not street legal. Couldn't be used on production bikes. And the 110 was soon found to have problems with just slapping bigger cylinders on it. If this had been long term tested, they would have known this was a problem. Again, JMO.
Now to address what happened to me. Since this info is scattered all over the place here, I'll try to summarize the sequence of events that happened to me. There seems to be a number of people that feel that my bike's always breaking and that I can't anyone I like to take care of it. So I'm setting the record straight how this whole thing went down with Cybil. It has little to do with the other thread, so don't worry, this isn't a bitch or fingerpointing post. Just a sequence to where I am today.
First I got the bike last Jan. I got a DPP w/S&S A/C assembly, V&H TD's w/S&S SPO mufflers, a PC and a tune. The bike ran OK, and I was gonna live with it, fully w.....tied! Well on a trip, after 6000 miles, the dreaded head gasket leak. I need to figure out how I would address that. Going back and forth to HD dealers to keep doing this, with no known fixes from HD, would be insanity IMO. We all know the definition of that. Going to a HD dealer for service is insanity to me as it is. Again, JMO.
So I found a dealer that agreed that HD had no known fix, and that if I buy the aftermarket parts, they'd do the job under w.....ty. They got new HD pistons cylinders and rings. And Harry recommended that I go to Cycle-rama for the headwork and cams, as they had designed this specifically for this engine. I called them and felt comfortable using their stuff. We added more heavy race quality stuff then too (Feuling OP and camplate, lifters, pushrods, etc.) This was assembled by the dealer, and the bike ran great. Had about 2000 miles on that when on the trip to HS, one of the ACR's shorted out, blew the ECM fuse, shut the bike down, and spit an ACR right out of the head, threads and all!
OK, tow back to the dealer to get fixed under w.....ty again. Went back to CR and got a set of 4" Axtell barrels and their designed CP pistons and new rings. Sent them the heads to weld the ACR holes closed and machine in manual CR's by the spark plug holes. Sent it all back to the dealer to reassemble. This time, it took so long to get the parts, that the dealer rushed the job (he was going on vacation for 3 weeks the next day) and didn't assemble the engine properly. Didn't torque one head and blew the head gasket after 800 miles more. Total mileage now 8800 miles
Howie flips, says FTF and FTW!!! This is where Vern enters the picture. Vern's a good friend for 15 years. HE'S THE ONLY ONE BEFORE THIS DEALER TO WORK ON ANY OF MY BIKES! Now you know why. I'm going to build an entire new engine from the bottom up! He got me new cases, S&S crank, Timken conversion, gear drive setup for the CR cams, and sent the entire top end back to CR. They were to check/clean up the heads. They were to determine if the pistons and cylinders were OK, and supply the gear drive cams to a similar spec as the chain drive they made me. They determined that the pistons should be replaced, and the cylinders setup to match. Now forget the CR issues, that's not the point here. Because that's where we are today. Issues aside, Vern now has all the parts to start finally building the bulletproof performance engine I'm after. So all this about not holding together and not getting anyone good to work on it is BS. One dealer tried 2 times. First another HD part went (ACR). Then the dealer screwed up the build. Now it's at a real engine builder, using real parts, and being assebled precisely to mfr's specs (blueprinting). I have no reason on the face of the earth to believe that my motor won't be what I'm expecting it to be.
So Brian, I think you're right in the sense that the stock HD 110 can't take performance mods. But no more so than the HD 96"/103" performance mods. You just won't probably leak. That's exlusive to the stock 110 parts. In this day and age, with how HD has tied up all their new parts with very strong patents, you have no alternative but to build a complete new motor with their cases, or buy Jims (who's in bed w/HD anyway). So I chose to build a new motor with the strongest racing quality chit I could find, and have a real engine guy put it together. He does his work meticulously by hand, and double and triple checks all measurements. This is the only reason we found some issues. But now we have the parts back. They're now acceptable to Vern to use in my motor, and we can finally get to the job of building it.
So it doesn't keep breaking. It leaked. Then broke. Then it wasn't put together right. Now it's getting bulit properly from scratch. That will ultimately be what it takes to build a strong, decent performing, reliable 110" engine. But not an HD one. So yes Brian, you're right. But I'd keep a close eye on that new 103 too! ;)
Hoist! 8)
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Not to stir the pot, but rather as an observation - - - throughout motor engineering history, there have been underperformers and overperformers. Motors you could beat to death and they'd run and ones you could baby and they wouldn't. A couple that come to mind Chrysler 225 slant 6. In my opinion, the toughest motor ever built. Almost indestructible. On the other hand, the Cosworth Vega of the 70's. POS completely. Again on the good side, the 426 Chrysler Hemi and 427 Chevy motors. Incredible motors. And again the bad, whatever Ford put in the Pinto. Chevy 290 straight 6. So tough they use em in lubstah boast in Maine. The Shelby Ford 426 AC Cobra motor and so on.
On the H-D side, Knuckleheads were slow but reliable, Panheads could be finicky. Shovelheads were tough but didn't like the heat. Evo's were/are marathon motors. We've had twin-cams since 1999. They started out at 88" and have grown to 110. H-D has offered an 88", a 95", a 103", a 96" and a 110 " That's 5 different sizes in a short 9 years. Warp speed by H-D standards and I think it has something to do with the issue. I don't know if the 110 will ever amount to anything.It might be like the CVO 95" that took a few years to get the kinks worked out. OR, it could truly be the Vega Cosworth of H-D motors. Why ? I have no idea. Answer why on some of the engines I've mentioned above if you will.
B B
PS
LD's got over 8k trouble free miles on it since I pushed it from a 96" to a 103" It pumps out a respectable 108ftlbs and 103hp and as anyone who's ridden with me (talk to Q) I don't baby my bikes.
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Not to stir the pot, but rather as an observation - - - throughout motor engineering history, there have been underperformers and overperformers. Motors you could beat to death and they'd run and ones you could baby and they wouldn't. A couple that come to mind Chrysler 225 slant 6. In my opinion, the toughest motor ever built. Almost indestructible. On the other hand, the Cosworth Vega of the 70's. POS completely. Again on the good side, the 426 Chrysler Hemi and 427 Chevy motors. Incredible motors. And again the bad, whatever Ford put in the Pinto. Chevy 290 straight 6. So tough they use em in lubstah boast in Maine. The Shelby Ford 426 AC Cobra motor and so on.
On the H-D side, Knuckleheads were slow but reliable, Panheads could be finicky. Shovelheads were tough but didn't like the heat. Evo's were/are marathon motors. We've had twin-cams since 1999. They started out at 88" and have grown to 110. H-D has offered an 88", a 95", a 103", a 96" and a 110 " That's 5 different sizes in a short 9 years. Warp speed by H-D standards and I think it has something to do with the issue. I don't know if the 110 will ever amount to anything.It might be like the CVO 95" that took a few years to get the kinks worked out. OR, it could truly be the Vega Cosworth of H-D motors. Why ? I have no idea. Answer why on some of the engines I've mentioned above if you will.
B B
Like I said, the 88/95 is not the 96/103/110. The 110 is a 96/103 that also leaks! ;)
Hoist! 8)
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LD's got over 8k trouble free miles on it since I pushed it from a 96" to a 103" It pumps out a respectable 108ftlbs and 103hp and as anyone who's ridden with me (talk to Q) I don't baby my bikes.
RUT ROH
Brian's gonna be disappointed when he rides the SERG.
It's no LD in the power department.
But for a stock bike it's not bad!
Maybe the shiny inner fairing will keep his mind off the lack of power!
:2vrolijk_21:
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RUT ROH
Brian's gonna be disappointed when he rides the SERG.
It's no LD in the power department.
But for a stock bike it's not bad!
Maybe the shiny inner fairing will keep his mind off the lack of power!
:2vrolijk_21:
That "other" fuel makes it run decent though. :2vrolijk_21:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Here's a 2008 SERK with Bub 7 crossover pipes, SERT and a SE air cleaner.
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Here's a 2008 SERK with Bub 7 crossover pipes, SERT and a SE air cleaner.
I'm curious what your run looks like, but I can't get it to open.
I have a similar setup on my 08 SERK.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong on opening up the file.
Thanks.
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I'm curious what your run looks like, but I can't get it to open.
I have a similar setup on my 08 SERK.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong on opening up the file.
Thanks.
I believe that file is corrupted it's showing "0kb". :confused5:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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That "other" fuel makes it run decent though. :2vrolijk_21:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
whatchutalkinbout Willis ?
Does Chip put shine in his bikes ? ;)
B B
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whatchutalkinbout Willis ?
Does Chip put shine in his bikes ? ;)
B B
Something like that. ;D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Something like that. ;D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Shhhhhhhhhhh!
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Shhhhhhhhhhh!
:innocent: :huepfenlol2:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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:innocent: :huepfenlol2:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Hey Mr. Moderator, the above is a blatant post count pad. Did you do away with the prompt that pops up when the only thing in a post is emoticons ?
:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
B B
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Hey Mr. Moderator, the above is a blatant post count pad. Did you do away with the prompt that pops up when the only thing in a post is emoticons ?
:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
B B
Ok, just for you... ;)
Chip,
You know I'm innocent I'd never do anything like that. :huepfenlol2:
How's that for padding my post count? But you know I'm not into that stuff anyway. :huepfenjump3:
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:jack: is there anyone in here that owns a SERK??? :nixweiss:
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:jack: is there anyone in here that owns a SERK??? :nixweiss:
I have a SERK.
Please see picture below and slighltly above and to the left.
;)
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:jack: is there anyone in here that owns a SERK??? :nixweiss:
I've owned two and am rebuilding one for another site member right now.
Does that count ?
B B
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I've owned two and am rebuilding one for another site member right now.
Does that count ?
B B
Hey Nige & Brian that has got to be a land speed response record ;)
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Ya gotta be fast to own a SERK.
Especially to the Stealers.
:D
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:jack: is there anyone in here that owns a SERK??? :nixweiss:
What's a SERK? ::) ;D
Hoist! 8)
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What's a SERK? ::) ;D
Hoist! 8)
Not sure I haven't been on one since October :(
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:jack: is there anyone in here that owns a SERK??? :nixweiss:
You mean like, one that runs?
:nixweiss: :nixweiss:
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You mean like, one that runs?
:nixweiss: :nixweiss:
Ooh Chip thats just plain nassssty talk - what would the MoCo think ?
:drink:
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What's a SERK? ::) ;D
Hoist! 8)
It's like a JERK, but one that's always Screamin Howie !!
::)
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Ooh Chip thats just plain nassssty talk - what would the MoCo think ?
:drink:
I would hope that they would think, "that's it, we are tired of everyone complaining about the 110.
Lets do something about it.
We will start with the watercooled motor in the 09's. And as for the 07 and 08's, well chit, they can always trade them in on a 09. As compensation we will give them first choice in colors!"
WHOOHOO!
:2vrolijk_21:
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I would hope that they would think, "that's it, we are tired of everyone complaining about the 110.
Lets do something about it.
We will start with the watercooled motor in the 09's. And as for the 07 and 08's, well chit, they can always trade them in on a 09. As compensation we will give them first choice in colors!"
WHOOHOO!
:2vrolijk_21:
I'll try and keep the faith thanks Chip ;) :2vrolijk_21:
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I'll try and keep the faith thanks Chip ;) :2vrolijk_21:
Well I guess I will never get a job with Roger selling cars!
:2vrolijk_21:
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Well I guess I will never get a job with Roger selling cars!
:2vrolijk_21:
Oh I don't know. Seems like you got 50% of the job down already!! :2vrolijk_21: Optimism is 50% (some may call it BS depending on where you reside :huepfenlol2:) and you sure seem to have that. :bananarock:
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It's the damn SERK dyno section for god sakes! Don't ya'll have enough other places to play? Is nothing sacred here? ::)
Hoist! 8)
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It's the damn SERK dyno section for god sakes! Don't ya'll have enough other places to play? Is nothing sacred here? ::)
Hoist! 8)
Figure out a new thread title for everything from post #97 (http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=12079.msg335686#msg335686) on and I'll split it out of here for you.
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Figure out a new thread title for everything from post #97 (http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=12079.msg335686#msg335686) on and I'll split it out of here for you.
Make one up Brian. It has no meaning anyway! ::)
Hoist! 8)
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Make one up Brian. It has no meaning anyway! ::)
Hoist! 8)
This coming from the king of taking threads off subject. :shocked2: :huepfenlol2:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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This coming from the king of taking threads off subject. :shocked2: :huepfenlol2:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Yep, that's how stupid this is! As evidenced by the last post above!
Hoist! 8)
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This coming from the king of taking threads off subject. :shocked2: :huepfenlol2:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
:huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
:huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
Ben thinking about an 02 SERK.
Wonder what the dyno would say?
Stock of course!
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Who's Ben? :nixweiss: :huepfenlol2:
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Who's Ben? :nixweiss: :huepfenlol2:
next door neighbor that bought an American Wing and wants to sell his SERK
and it's a running 103
cool beans huh?
your very fast on that subliminal chit!
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and before you ask, it has a crank
:2vrolijk_21:
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and before you ask, it has a crank
:2vrolijk_21:
So do I - - - - what's that got to do with it ?
B B
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Figure out a new thread title for everything from post #97 (http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=12079.msg335686#msg335686) on and I'll split it out of here for you.
Where are we at with this :confused5:
Howie
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No one's come up with a good title/description for the conglomerate of posts since #97. :nixweiss: ;D
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No one's come up with a good title/description for the conglomerate of posts since #97. :nixweiss: ;D
How about mid-winter cabin fever thread?? :confused5: :bananarock: :2vrolijk_21:
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How about mid-winter cabin fever thread?? :confused5: :bananarock: :2vrolijk_21:
That would be the name of many threads on this board. :nixweiss: :huepfenlol2:
Show me a thread that is over 5 pages long on any of the boards that doesn't drift off into something else to eventually return to the subject topic, and I'll show you some ocean front property in Kansas. ;D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
-
That would be the name of many threads on this board. :nixweiss: :huepfenlol2:
Show me a thread that is over 5 pages long on any of the boards that doesn't drift off into something else to eventually return to the subject topic, and I'll show you some ocean front property in Kansas. ;D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Is there nothing sacred :nixweiss: :huepfenlol2: Mod said he was gonna fix it so I thought I would ask when :confused5:
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I guess I've been vetoed. ???
-
That would be the name of many threads on this board. :nixweiss: :huepfenlol2:
Show me a thread that is over 5 pages long on any of the boards that doesn't drift off into something else to eventually return to the subject topic, and I'll show you some ocean front property in Kansas. ;D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Is the beach nice? Looking to make a sensible investment & have a lot of money laying about with no plans for it except to prop up a leg on a table for now. Kansas is close to Colorado so if it's on the western side, would be nice to be only a day or less away from skiing too.
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That would be the name of many threads on this board. :nixweiss: :huepfenlol2:
Show me a thread that is over 5 pages long on any of the boards that doesn't drift off into something else to eventually return to the subject topic, and I'll show you some ocean front property in Kansas. ;D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Gary - Is it in eastern or western Kansas? I am only 8 miles form the Kansas border and it would nice to have a beachfront vaction home to ride to on the weekends. Perhaps Don and I could do a timeshare thing. ;D
:worthless:
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Hey, I saw this first!
Gary, if you are a man of honor you will not make an offer to sell this to GR until I have first crack at it. Ocean front in Kansas is real hard to come by - been waiting years for this opportunity & now GR's trying to snatch it away. Always dreamed of owning a wheat field on the ocean, & they make movies about Fields of Dreams.......
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Hey, I saw this first!
Gary, if you are a man of honor you will not make an offer to sell this to GR until I have first crack at it. Ocean front in Kansas is real hard to come by - been waiting years for this opportunity & now GR's trying to snatch it away. Always dreamed of owning a wheat field on the ocean, & they make movies about Fields of Dreams.......
I believe this is a free market system and Gary can sell to whomever he wishes. Don't give me this "first come first served" nonsense. Its all about the benjamins. I would be willing to pay at least $1.00/acre for land in Kansas. :bananarock:
-
Where are we at with this :confused5:
Howie
Back on track once I get Bubba_T's SERK back from the engine builder
In the meantime I guess you have to put up with the nonsense
B B
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I believe this is a free market system and Gary can sell to whomever he wishes. Don't give me this "first come first served" nonsense. Its all about the benjamins. I would be willing to pay at least $1.00/acre for land in Kansas. :bananarock:
Damn. I hate it when I am outbidded by a savvy land acquirer. Of course I had budgeted $.12 an acre & had considered going as high as $.14 but @ $1 an acre, it is so far out of my league there is no point to continue a bidding war GR. If any land in Kansas is worth more than $.10 an acre at current values, it would be very surprising to me since I have ridden through the corn fields of Kansas & seen corn & up ahead corn & then around the ONE corner in many miles, corn. Then they also grow corn in other places & have quite a bit of corn land under cultivation for growing of corn and even more corn and of course they also grow corn. The ocean front promised was why I would have bid as high as $,14, but a $1? Wow.
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I believe the 110 gasket and cylinder problems are caused by heat and excessive compression...and I offer my bike as a test...I've changed to ported 96" heads, se257 cams, supertrapp 2 into 1, and power commander...had it dynoed this week and it made 106hp/115tq sae 5th gear...put some more discs in the muffler so the hp is probably more now...compression was 200 cold and leakdown was 4%...I have 2k miles since the rebuild...I've monitored rear head temp with an infrared gun and it hasn't gone above 300*F...I understand 5k miles is where the problems start happening, so I'll keep y'all informed...bottom line is you can't run a bike (especially a bagger) with 215 compression, smog cams, and 14.7 air/fuel ratio without it blowing up...H-D screwed up, but I've fixed mine!
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Damn. I hate it when I am outbidded by a savvy land acquirer. Of course I had budgeted $.12 an acre & had considered going as high as $.14 but @ $1 an acre, it is so far out of my league there is no point to continue a bidding war GR. If any land in Kansas is worth more than $.10 an acre at current values, it would be very surprising to me since I have ridden through the corn fields of Kansas & seen corn & up ahead corn & then around the ONE corner in many miles, corn. Then they also grow corn in other places & have quite a bit of corn land under cultivation for growing of corn and even more corn and of course they also grow corn. The ocean front promised was why I would have bid as high as $,14, but a $1? Wow.
Ahhh. There is were you went wrong in your analysis. You forgot about wheat! Lots and losts of wheat. Millions and millions of acres of wheat. :huepfenlol2:
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Ahhh. There is were you went wrong in your analysis. You forgot about wheat! Lots and losts of wheat. Millions and millions of acres of wheat. :huepfenlol2:
All I saw was corn & corn fields with corn & corn by products and then I saw some more corn.
The savvy investor would have noticed the wheat & obviously I was blinded by corn.
Perhaps the mountain ski slope type land in Kansas is more affordable than beachfront? :nixweiss:
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Just to share the experience. 2008 SERK and I just put the Bud 7s true duals (no crossover), with the stage 1 SE kit. My H-D shop spent 4 hours on the Dyno tuning her with the ("old") race tuner. She made 95 Hp and 112 TQ. TQ peaked at about 3.5K, very good trace (can't post the chart right now). Very happy with the way she runs, no heat issues and the Bubs sound bad-a$$.
Brett
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I went to Lancaster, Ca. to visit Antelope Valley HD dealer. One of the techs is a young man with some family in the HD business, and has years in himself. I will post the baseline, and subsequent posts will include a new cam bundled with a new "Mentor" type computer add on (similar to the "Alpha N Mentor"). The projected increases for this bundle run as high you can imagine. I am hearing 30%, but I don't believe it till see it. So, they are going to install in my brand new 2300 miles old 2008 SE RoadKing and check the results first hand; at no risk to me. No money, no deposits, no cost for labor or additional misc. costs. I have become a Guinea pig. I was a HOG up until I said "Okay".
Here is the baseline dyno....Current installed mods are RH TrueDuals, High Flow Air Intake Filter, SERT and a canned (semi custom) map. No tuning or SERT was applied for this baseline....
Mike K.
kona76
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I went to Lancaster, Ca. to visit Antelope Valley HD dealer. One of the techs is a young man with some family in the HD business, and has years in himself. I will post the baseline, and subsequent posts will include a new cam bundled with a new "Mentor" type computer add on (similar to the "Alpha N Mentor"). The projected increases for this bundle run as high you can imagine. I am hearing 30%, but I don't believe it till see it. So, they are going to install in my brand new 2300 miles old 2008 SE RoadKing and check the results first hand; at no risk to me. No money, no deposits, no cost for labor or additional misc. costs. I have become a Guinea pig. I was a HOG up until I said "Okay".
Here is the baseline dyno....Current installed mods are RH TrueDuals, High Flow Air Intake Filter, SERT and a canned (semi custom) map. No tuning or SERT was applied for this baseline....
Mike K.
kona76
Back to the shop earlier Friday. I had the new cam package installed: cams, SE adjustable pushrods and the "mentor" computer. I will be posting the outcome of the dyno test here later today. The SE RoadKing had a great feeling as a semi stock bike. Now, the power seems much more available: at 3000 rpms, 60 mph I grabbed some throttle and got some results unlike the weeks before. Much more torque according to my ass dyno. I'll be riding 70 plus miles to let the self adjusting "mentor" boot on board and start assisting the factory ECM.
The only possible drawback might be the #2 canned map downloaded after bolting on True Duals and the highflow intake. Because of the SERT installed and the download, a conflict might occur, however we will see.
Speaking of that, I found out the dealer used a HD filter for the highflow upgrade. What a rip off. I made the stupid assumption a K&N Filter would be used but, oh hell no, not for me.
So, today while at the Lancaster, CA dealer, I will upgrade the filter as well.
Total cost to me for Cams, SE pushrods, "mentor" computer, oil and labor...so far....is $100.00. I kicked that down to the mechanics who did the install.
If all is well today, I'll end up spending more on the K&N filter than on the cams package!! Now, that's a bargin and a half (so far that is)......
Mike K.
kona76
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Hi Mike
Looking forward to hearing your results. I still believe how she feels to you is the most important dyno!
JW
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I've said it before, I'll say it again, I'll keep saying it till it registers with someone.
PLEASE PRINT YOUR ET SHEETS The dyno shop is BSin you if they say they don't have it. It's part of the software.
A 110/110 motor that gets it all going in 3 seconds will absolutely STOMP a 125/125 motor that takes 6 seconds to get it going in a stop light to stop light race, a 1/4 mile whatever. If you're talkin a highway roll on with no particular distance limit, eventually you'll win, but not in what most people consider a drag race.
B B
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As promised, the second baseline after adding the New Cams, SE Adjustable Pushrods and the Alpha N Mentor type aftermarket computer.
Not exactly the numbers we were hopeful for. A gain in Horsepower of 5.98 and a torque decrease of -3.70.
The reasons for the small gains are numerous for now. I was told:
1. The previous map downloaded via the SERT may have been blocking the test numbers.
2. The gains estimated of up to 30% are based on a "totally stock 110" engine". I have RH True Duals, High Flow AC and a SERT.
3. With only 100 miles on the computer upgrade, the air/fuel ratio already had some effect in correction. Therefore a greater distance in mileage may further the quest for performance numbers.
4. That the SERT had not been tuned yet, therefore the "performance band" had not been narrowed enough yet for the aftermarket computer to truly take control and smooth it out.
5. With a proper tuning using the SERT, a Solid Tuner and dyno test and another test after riding for a week or so would most assuredly perform up to estimated gains.
Please note I colored in the lines for viewing with Corel Paint Shop Pro. The lines were poorly scanned, and would not repoduce very well for this site.
Mike K.
kona76
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Got the dyno tune done today. Never got a base line before mods from dealer since the changes were done along with a canned map before left the building. The base line on the chart is from canned map.
08 SERK
Reinhart True-duals
Stage I A/C
at 1300 miles.
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I've said it before, I'll say it again, I'll keep saying it till it registers with someone.
PLEASE PRINT YOUR ET SHEETS The dyno shop is BSin you if they say they don't have it. It's part of the software.
A 110/110 motor that gets it all going in 3 seconds will absolutely STOMP a 125/125 motor that takes 6 seconds to get it going in a stop light to stop light race, a 1/4 mile whatever. If you're talkin a highway roll on with no particular distance limit, eventually you'll win, but not in what most people consider a drag race.
B B
BUMP
Do you guys not have a clue what I'm talking about, or do you ignore me on purpose ?
B B
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As promised, the second baseline after adding the New Cams, SE Adjustable Pushrods and the Alpha N Mentor type aftermarket computer.
Not exactly the numbers we were hopeful for. A gain in Horsepower of 5.98 and a torque decrease of -3.70.
The reasons for the small gains are numerous for now. I was told:
1. The previous map downloaded via the SERT may have been blocking the test numbers.
2. The gains estimated of up to 30% are based on a "totally stock 110" engine". I have RH True Duals, High Flow AC and a SERT.
3. With only 100 miles on the computer upgrade, the air/fuel ratio already had some effect in correction. Therefore a greater distance in mileage may further the quest for performance numbers.
4. That the SERT had not been tuned yet, therefore the "performance band" had not been narrowed enough yet for the aftermarket computer to truly take control and smooth it out.
5. With a proper tuning using the SERT, a Solid Tuner and dyno test and another test after riding for a week or so would most assuredly perform up to estimated gains.
Please note I colored in the lines for viewing with Corel Paint Shop Pro. The lines were poorly scanned, and would not repoduce very well for this site.
Mike K.
kona76
Mike, if the red is after tune, get a refund. Your bike wasnt running upto its potential before the tune and mods and now its running worse. The AFR is a problem both times.
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Got the dyno tune done today. Never got a base line before mods from dealer since the changes were done along with a canned map before left the building. The base line on the chart is from canned map.
08 SERK
Reinhart True-duals
Stage I A/C
at 1300 miles.
Definately a nice improvement. Torque comes in nice and early and afr is looking better.
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I run it stock on dyno and made 81.5HP/92.9TQ. Now with SE intake and K&N air filter, Rinehart true duals, SE257 cams w/adjustable pushrods and SERT it made 98HP/107.8TQ. I think is below average numbers with similar or less components. Dyno was made in Hacienda HD in Scottsdale, AZ. Do you think I have to bring my bike with a more experienced dealer for take every HP hidden left on engine? Dyno was made at 1:26PM, 97 degree F. Thanks.
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I think you should show them some of these charts and ask for your money back. :soapbox:
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I have had my bike on two dynos one said 130 hp 133 tq and I was happy, Then I brought it a shop that specializes in tuning and now the numbers are 117hp and 116tq and comes on way sooner and I will tell you the bike now goes much better? The tuner says most dyno shops go up 10% in numbers so the customer is HAPPY with the new parts they bought and installed. He also said he could give me a dyno sheet that had much higher numbers if i wanted but there not the real numbers. I guess what I am saying is the butt dyno don't lie don't and don't trust all shops that sell you parts. ;)
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I have had my bike on two dynos one said 130 hp 133 tq and I was happy, Then I brought it a shop that specializes in tuning and now the numbers are 117hp and 116tq and comes on way sooner and I will tell you the bike now goes much better? The tuner says most dyno shops go up 10% in numbers so the customer is HAPPY with the new parts they bought and installed. He also said he could give me a dyno sheet that had much higher numbers if i wanted but there not the real numbers. I guess what I am saying is the butt dyno don't lie don't and don't trust all shops that sell you parts. ;)
There are many ways to inflate the numbers on a dyno. First a shop will put your bike on the dyno cold, take a run, than maybe mess with a few things, maybe not, run it warm and show you the increase that is just caused by the difference between a cold and warm motor. A good tuner will put you bike on the dyno and take some warm up runs, then when the TQ and HP level out take the base line run. Also they can inflate you numbers by using different SAE correction numbers, to really compare numbers, they have to be at the same SAE setting. And of course what gear they make the pull in, 4th gear will give a lower reading that 5th will.
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I've said it before, I'll say it again, I'll keep saying it till it registers with someone.
PLEASE PRINT YOUR ET SHEETS The dyno shop is BSin you if they say they don't have it. It's part of the software.
A 110/110 motor that gets it all going in 3 seconds will absolutely STOMP a 125/125 motor that takes 6 seconds to get it going in a stop light to stop light race, a 1/4 mile whatever. If you're talkin a highway roll on with no particular distance limit, eventually you'll win, but not in what most people consider a drag race.
B B
I'm going to keep bumping this post to the top till it receives some discussion
B B
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110/110 motor that gets it all going in 3 seconds will absolutely STOMP a 125/125 motor that takes 6 seconds to get it going in a stop light to stop light race, a 1/4 mile whatever. If you're talkin a highway roll on with no particular distance limit, eventually you'll win, but not in what most people consider a drag race.
Okay I have not heard of as ET sheet. Do all dyno's do them? My guy uses a land and sea machine. Does what your sayin have to do with where the tq hits? A bike that has 110tq at 2000 rpm vs a Bike that hits 110tq at 3400 rpm but tops out at 125 foot pounds. the first bike is quicker in a 1/4 mile right? Derek
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This is where I'm at for now. Hope for better when I figure out what's out of whack.
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This is where I'm at for now. Hope for better when I figure out what's out of whack.
Your power curve develops up the RPM range and hence also in the sense of what I've been talking about with Elapsed Time graphs, late as well. The only way you will change this is to change cams to ones with a more aggressive profile. I preach DM 598G from Dave Mackie Engineering. But that's just me. There's a lot of good cams out there, just be aware that the hip bone's connected to the thigh bone and if most times you can't just change one piece of your motor without changing one or more other things.
B B
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Thanks BB
What I don't get is how others with a similiar build with 110's are doing better than this. The package should be sound. There is something restricting this motor but I haven't got my finger on it yet. Everyone ask about sumping. That was the first thing checked. Not sumping. But it must be sumpin else. ???
I'm thing about posting a summary of my build for all to look over. Someone may come up with it. I have to look into the rings micro-welding. It can only be connected to several areas but which? or is it a combination of things?
JW
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Thanks BB
What I don't get is how others with a similiar build with 110's are doing better than this. The package should be sound. There is something restricting this motor but I haven't got my finger on it yet. Everyone ask about sumping. That was the first thing checked. Not sumping. But it must be sumpin else. ???
I'm thing about posting a summary of my build for all to look over. Someone may come up with it. I have to look into the rings micro-welding. It can only be connected to several areas but which? or is it a combination of things?
08 SE Road King 117 c i motor:
SERT, SE 58mm TB, Rinehart TD
Diamond cut Axtell 117 cylinders
JE rev-dome thermal coated 117 pistons
Diamond cut CycleRama thermal coated SE 110 heads, SE Roller Rockers, SE Rocker Arm Support
SE pushrods, CR performance lifters, Chrome billet aluminum lifter covers
CR595 cam, SE camplate, Torrington full coverage bearings
Dark Horse Pro Plug crank, Timken bearing
AIM VP92T
JW
I think you've already posted your build, in your signature. Is this correct?
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Yep Just gave the additional stuff like flow numbers for the heads, cam specs and that sort of stuff. It's in my post in the Twin Cam section.
JW
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I now have about 4400 miles on my SERK. In early May I installed a Heavy Breather a/c. Soon afterwards I took it to my dealer and had a SERT installed, tuned and the bike dyno'd (max power 92.2 and max torque 109.6).
After reviewing the posts here it seems that there is quite a variance on the hp and torque results from changing exhaust and the a/c. I want to make sure I don't waste money for mods that don't provide a measureable difference that I can see (in the dyno results) and feel in the saddle. I plan to work with my tuner on suggestions but I have a couple of questions.
What type of gains do people expect to get with exhaust and a/c mods? Increased hp of 2-5 and comparable torque increases? More? Less? Or do people simply hope to see something that makes them feel like it was worth it?
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Check out my chart (Reply #158 on previous page).
96 HP
111 torque
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I now have about 4400 miles on my SERK. In early May I installed a Heavy Breather a/c. Soon afterwards I took it to my dealer and had a SERT installed, tuned and the bike dyno'd (max power 92.2 and max torque 109.6).
After reviewing the posts here it seems that there is quite a variance on the hp and torque results from changing exhaust and the a/c. I want to make sure I don't waste money for mods that don't provide a measureable difference that I can see (in the dyno results) and feel in the saddle. I plan to work with my tuner on suggestions but I have a couple of questions.
What type of gains do people expect to get with exhaust and a/c mods? Increased hp of 2-5 and comparable torque increases? More? Less? Or do people simply hope to see something that makes them feel like it was worth it?
I have the D & D Fat Cat Exhaust, SERT, and stock A/C, my numbers are HP 101 / TQ 115 (Dyno Reply 84). You be the judge.
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Hunter & FLHRSE,
Those are both impressive gains, especially compared to some that have posted with more mods and less results. I'd love to see an 8% - 10% overall improvement on my bike (now that the a/c has been replaced and it's tuned) with only some exhaust system changes. That may be a bit optimistic but I'll talk with my tuner.
Thanks for the response.
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See reply #42. Torque kicks in at 2k rpm.
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Here's mine -- '08 SERK, Rinehard True Duals, PCIII, H-D Heavy Breather intake. I'll attach two charts -- one with the standard baffles and one with the quiet baffles. This was a custom advanced map created by the Dynojet R&D department. This will be the maps they will be posting on their site.
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Here's the same setup but mapped for the quiet baffles.
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While in Sturgis during the rally, I stopped by the Top 50 event location and there was a Dyno guy there, Dynojet Research, Cycle Solutions, Hartford, IN.
He was just finishing up with a tune and had a break and was able to work me right in.
I have installed the following: V&H Dresser Dual, V&H Oval mufflers, SE AC, PCM III.
I knew up front that the V&H system was not as much HP oriented as say the stepped Rinehart True Duals, but I really liked the sound of the V&H setup better. I got one of the very first PCM III's and there was only one map so far at the time for a similar setup as mine. I downloaded the map and got my '08 SERK up and running.
The SERK ran great with just a little bit of popping on decel and other than that seemed to run pretty darn good. I notice that my mileage was a bit low from what I thought I should be getting.
So the dyno sheet attached here had the base line of my original install of the new exhaust, AC and PCM III with the one map from the PCM website. I never had the bike dyno'd by the dealer.
I guess I was a bit disappointed at the numbers, but the bike runs better now and seems to be smoother too. I expected that I'd be in the mid 90's for hp and a bit higher on the torque, but each motor and dyno is different. Judging my base line to the new map, I'd say that I got my money's worth. I also picked up about 6 mpg over the orginal map. He raised my rev limiter to 6,200 rpms.
Overall I gained a good solid 9 hp and my torque level went up across the entire range and made a seat of the pants improvement. The tuner said that on these 110" motors the cams are a big limiting factor and he said that the new Rinehart stepped header pipes add lots of torque and will build better HP as well. He said that I might pick up another 4 to 5 HP with the new stepped pipes and their mufflers.
(http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL846/863774/18344508/330585688.jpg)
I hope this is high enough resolution. When I upload this to my Picture Trail site, it automatically resizes the file to 536 x 400. How do I upload my sheet to the CVO forum to retain the higher resolution I have on my computer? Most of the pictures I see attached have the link below the picture or you can click on the picture to view full size. On my attachments I can't do that. So I'm missing something somewhere.
Thanks.
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You don't see the "Browse" button below the text box where you type your reply? Click that, find your file and attach to your post. :2vrolijk_21:
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You don't see the "Browse" button below the text box where you type your reply? Click that, find your file and attach to your post. :2vrolijk_21:
I'll try that now.
Thanks.
And it worked great, I'll remember this for the future.
Thanks again...
:2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
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Bone stock 2008 CVO (international) with XIED's. I want to install a SEAC but no slip-ons (do not like the excessive noise), are there any dyno sheets out there with this set-up? I hope to get around 90hp with SEAC only, is this possible?
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Bone stock 2008 CVO (international) with XIED's. I want to install a SEAC but no slip-ons (do not like the excessive noise), are there any dyno sheets out there with this set-up? I hope to get around 90hp with SEAC only, is this possible?
CR, each bike is different and as you can see from my dyno sheet just above yours, with the V&H duals and oval mufflers along with the SEAC and PCM III, I didn't break 90 hp.
Some here have the same mods but with different exhaust and have come close to 100 hp. So I really think it's a crap shoot on what you'll get. I would be surprised that the AC alone will net you the 10 hp you're looking for.
Good luck and let us know what the outcome is.
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Bone stock 2008 CVO (international) with XIED's. I want to install a SEAC but no slip-ons (do not like the excessive noise), are there any dyno sheets out there with this set-up? I hope to get around 90hp with SEAC only, is this possible?
My SERK is stock except for a SE Heavy Breather a/c.
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Sorry, here's the opened jpeg.
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Sorry, here's the opened jpeg.
Those are some good numbers for just a SERT and SE AC. I can't help but think that my V&H exhuast system wouldn't be better than a stock system, so maybe the tuner was way off or my bike is just a dog bike, and not a Big Dog...
Thanks for sharing your sheet.
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Dan,
I've used cycle solutions a couple times...chris does an ok job with the fuel, but doesn't adjust timing....there may be a little more power in your motor by having someone build a custom timing map...also chris has a 250i dyno which reads lower numbers than some of the older models...I had him do a horsepower run once and it read 5hp less than another dyno that the bike was tuned with
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Dan,
I've used cycle solutions a couple times...Chris does an OK job with the fuel, but doesn't adjust timing....there may be a little more power in your motor by having someone build a custom timing map...also Chris has a 250i dyno which reads lower numbers than some of the older models...I had him do a horsepower run once and it read 5hp less than another dyno that the bike was tuned with
Skyhook, thanks for the reply.
As many dyno's as there are, there will probably be many different hp readings. Temp and humidity and the correction factor all add up.
When I had my '57 392 blow hemi dyno'd, the builder asked if I wanted the Hot Rod Mag readings or the true adjusted readings. I agreed that the real numbers are what I really want. We were gaining about 10 hp every 100 rpms and it was still climbing fast when he shut it down at 6,000 rpms. I had stock rods in it, but they were shot peened for strength. He recommended that we stop at 6,000 and I agreed. We had hit my number that I was hoping for anyway. 654 crank hp. I had a few buddies with me that day we dyno'd it and a couple of them ran out of the control room when the motor was going up fast in rpms, they thought it was about to blow.
Speaking of rpms, when they raised the rev limit up 6,200 rpms and then did the pulls, it sounded like the old SERK would just fly apart right then and there, but obviously it didn't...
I guess the bottom line is that I like what I've got and I know the exhaust is NOT the best available for performance, but I do like the sound of the V&H ovals over the Rineharts. So as long as it runs fine and now it doesn't even do the backfiring when I decel, which is a nice part of the actual tuning.
Thanks again.
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@mobileagbell
That is exactly what I am looking for! I read somewhere (can't remember where) about a stage I tune AC and slip ons where all the increase in power was solely through the AC, adding the slip-ons did not increase power at all. Do you use some kind of fuel system SERT or XIED's? According to the techs from S&S that is not even necessary with their quick-tune which is in effect a kind of stage I mod.
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@mobilagbell
I take it from the small print on your dyno sheet and the fact that the rpms go to 6000 that you used SERT. Did you use a canned map or had the bike extensively dynoed. Was the ignition-timing altered or did they only do the fueling? What is the main difference in daily driving?
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After I got through the break-in period on my SERK and opened the throttle a bit when entering the freeway, there was a "waahhh" sound from the air cleaner that, to me, sounded like the motor was gasping for air. I thought that replacing the air cleaner might help.
I liked the looks of the SE Heavy Breather air cleaner and decided to install it. And I ordered a (then) new Race Tuner Pro. The mechanic/tuner at my dealer told me that he would develop a map for my bike. He convinced me that I would be able to feel the difference when he finished. He also told me that I might want to think about opening up the exhaust a bit with some SE mufflers. I decided against the mufflers at the time and let him work his magic.
When I picked up the bike he told me that the bike ran well. I left the dealer, rode around a bit to warm it up and to make sure nothing was wrong. It seemed to run smoother and had a bit more zip. I headed for the freeway entrance ramp, getting up to about 3000 RPM, and whacked the throttle. I wasn't prepared for the results. The front end of the bike came up (not off the ground), pushed me into the backrest and simply took off. It was a completely different bike. Not a race bike but something much different than what I started with.
A week ago I installed a pair of SE Street Performance Touring Mufflers. I can't really tell if they improved the performance and my tuner told me another dyno wasn't needed for now. But the big grin that started with the air cleaner, the Race Tuner Pro and the custom map is now even wider.
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@mobilagbell
I take it from the small print on your dyno sheet and the fact that the rpms go to 6000 that you used SERT. Did you use a canned map or had the bike extensively dynoed. Was the ignition-timing altered or did they only do the fueling? What is the main difference in daily driving?
I really don't know if the timing was altered on the bike. My guess is that there was little, if any, timing changes made. Besides the very noticeable increase in torque at various RPM levels, the bike runs smoother. There is no exhaust popping during deceleration. I've never accurately measured miles per gallon before or after the changes but I would guess it has been reduced 3-6 miles per gallon. It seems that I need to refuel sooner now. I'm sure one reason for the reduction is my 'twitchy' right hand. Every time I ride now I make it a point to hit the rev limiter at least once. It also seems to run a bit cooler but that may be in my head.
This bike was one of the early production units. I bought it last August; it has an 07/07 manufacture date.
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Sorry, here's the opened jpeg.
Still no clue on how long it takes to get there
B B
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Several pages back I found reference to ET sheets. Is this what you're talking about? (Quote: Still no clue on how long it takes to get there.)
What is an ET sheet?
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it's a dyno sheet which shows seconds at the bottom instead of rpm
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After 11,000 miles and almost 11 months, I finally had my SERK4 tuned. It was a hell of a experience cause moments after leaving the shop, the raging fires that swept Santa Barbara, CA area, and the Sylmar, CA area near hwy 14, hwy 5 and surrounding areas were the exact route home to the Pismo Beach area, CA area. Missed the fires by an hour or so, but caught much of the HWY 101 traffic that started north of where I was heading.
The scanner, printer and production value are weak at best. The numbers are strong by comparison. The touch up was done with Corel Paint Shop Pro 12.
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The final runs were much better, but the dead spot throttle problem ( from standing through the first 5%-7%) remains. Actually, it got worse, and I have to go back again...damn thing dies on me now with consistancy. I have to rev higher and feather the clutch to find the variable sweet spot for acceleration until this is tuned again.
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The final runs were much better, but the dead spot throttle problem ( from standing through the first 5%-7%) remains. Actually, it got worse, and I have to go back again...damn thing dies on me now with consistency. I have to rev higher and feather the clutch to find the variable sweet spot for acceleration until this is tuned again.
Congrats for two reasons, getting out of the area before you fried and getting your bike dyno'd.
Those numbers look very good. As we've all discussed to some length lately in other threads, improvements before and after on the same dyno are what matters and how the bike runs afterwards. To compare numbers from one dyno to another is less than reliable.
Not to open another can or worms on dyno's, but why can't they all be calibrated to be the same? In the motor dyno area, which they used on my blown hemi motor, the builder explained that calibration for temp, humidity, fuel etc are all inputs that control the results. Anybody using a dyno has the weather at the location to tell the software what the stats are at that time. I see these listed on the bottom of the dyno sheets posted here as well.
My guy explained that he could give me "real" numbers, or he could give me "Hot Rod" numbers. He said that normally for the magazines they don't calibrate, but use standard weather and they tend to produce about a 5% increase in the numbers. I took the real and lived with it.
But chassis dyno's have been in use for decades for automotive and no one seems to complain about them.
I think I'll start another thread so as to not hijack this one. :soapbox:
What mods do you have on your SERK?
Again the comparison thing is not good, but my '08 SERK has PCMIII, SEAC, V&H Duals/Ovals. I think my HP, or lack there of, is due to the pipes. Most people say that the V&H pipes/mufflers are NOT good for power, but the reason I bough them was that they sound deeper and with less "rattle" than some of the others. On my dyno run it didn't break 90 hp but it did improve almost 9 hp from what I had been running with, the mods and a canned map from the first one posted back in December '07 from Power Commander. The new map is very smooth and I have no hesitation or lag in my throttle, no back firing or dying. The seat of the pants dyno says I got my monies worth.
Others here have talked about a dead spot or major hesitations from the TBW system on the '08s. Someone said that their dealer just set it up and programmed his throttle lag away.
Good luck with the stalling and hope they get it fixed for you quickly.
Thanks for posting your results.
:) :) :)
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Congrats for two reasons, getting out of the area before you fried and getting your bike dyno'd.
Those numbers look very good. As we've all discussed to some length lately in other threads, improvements before and after on the same dyno are what matters and how the bike runs afterwards. To compare numbers from one dyno to another is less than reliable.
Not to open another can or worms on dyno's, but why can't they all be calibrated to be the same? In the motor dyno area, which they used on my blown hemi motor, the builder explained that calibration for temp, humidity, fuel etc are all inputs that control the results. Anybody using a dyno has the weather at the location to tell the software what the stats are at that time. I see these listed on the bottom of the dyno sheets posted here as well.
My guy explained that he could give me "real" numbers, or he could give me "Hot Rod" numbers. He said that normally for the magazines they don't calibrate, but use standard weather and they tend to produce about a 5% increase in the numbers. I took the real and lived with it.
But chassis dyno's have been in use for decades for automotive and no one seems to complain about them.
I think I'll start another thread so as to not hijack this one. :soapbox:
What mods do you have on your SERK?
Again the comparison thing is not good, but my '08 SERK has PCMIII, SEAC, V&H Duals/Ovals. I think my HP, or lack there of, is due to the pipes. Most people say that the V&H pipes/mufflers are NOT good for power, but the reason I bough them was that they sound deeper and with less "rattle" than some of the others. On my dyno run it didn't break 90 hp but it did improve almost 9 hp from what I had been running with, the mods and a canned map from the first one posted back in December '07 from Power Commander. The new map is very smooth and I have no hesitation or lag in my throttle, no back firing or dying. The seat of the pants dyno says I got my monies worth.
Others here have talked about a dead spot or major hesitations from the TBW system on the '08s. Someone said that their dealer just set it up and programmed his throttle lag away.
Good luck with the stalling and hope they get it fixed for you quickly.
Thanks for posting your results.
:) :) :)
What's up Dan? My mods are simple.....RH True Duals, SE High Flow, SERT, and an aftermarket package like the Alpha N Mentor with a cam installed. The aftermarket "Mentor" is just a fine tune follow up for a good tune, the cam is a kick axx mid RPM range horsepower and torque boost with the adjustable pushrods, etc...
Thanks
Mike K.
kona76
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What's up Dan? My mods are simple.....RH True Duals, SE High Flow, SERT, and an aftermarket package like the Alpha N Mentor with a cam installed. The aftermarket "Mentor" is just a fine tune follow up for a good tune, the cam is a kick axx mid RPM range horsepower and torque boost with the adjustable pushrods, etc...
Thanks
Mike K.
kona76
Mike, thanks.
I'm sure, as lots of guys here have said, the 110" needs more cam to wake it up. It sounds like you've done just that. For right now I think I have all I need. Yes, the numbers are not what I would have liked to have seen, but it runs great and is just a blast to ride.
I hope you get the throttle problem corrected.
Ride safe and have fun riding a very nice bike.
:) :) :)
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Mike, thanks.
I'm sure, as lots of guys here have said, the 110" needs more cam to wake it up. It sounds like you've done just that. For right now I think I have all I need. Yes, the numbers are not what I would have liked to have seen, but it runs great and is just a blast to ride.
I hope you get the throttle problem corrected.
Ride safe and have fun riding a very nice bike.
:) :) :)
Thanks Dan.
Ya know, I have an uneasy feeling that the "trained Guru Tech" (who by the way is an excellent mech/tech) may not have the solution to the dead throttle semi-mystery. I have read many entries about the problem, heat management system causing grief for the TBW system, tuning it out, flashing this and that first...It is so over my head only due to my lack of experience with the SERT and this exact problem.
I think I can consider myself well read, and versed on the topic, even if I am not exactly sure of the paramiters. Yet, I really do feel for the less than savvy HD owner who would be lost in the crisis and only have the "dealer" for backup. One of the reasons I am thankful for this site and the family of CVO owners who share with great cause and effect.
My next stage is to return to the scene of the crime, the tuners shop in Pearblossom, CA (hundreds of miles away from the central coast); give the tech the insight I have (very little) and see if he can tune out my first 5-7% problem. Or, I'll will have him restore settings that are closer to the way I brought it to them, and later take it to another tuner I know in Hayward @ RC Cycles. He can do almost anything, and I have faith in him bigtime.
That's where my next few days will be spent.
Mike K.
kona76
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All of the newest tuning software programs have a table called Throttle Progresstivity. This table can be adjusted so there is no lag in the electronic throttle when twisting the grip.
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All of the newest tuning software programs have a table called Throttle Progresstivity. This table can be adjusted so there is no lag in the electronic throttle when twisting the grip.
eddfive,
Wow again. I have read your posts and I'm wide open to your train of thought. You make techical stuff sound sensible. At least from what I have read so far....
A few questions comes to mind: Does the newest tuning software programs have the SERT as the hardware link? I have part #32107-01L as my EFI Race Tuner. Is the new software compatible with all SERTs? And does that mean flashing on top of a tuners work?
Any direction is greatly appreciated
Mike K.
kona76
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Hi,
I willl post my dyno sheet as soon as possible.
Have a, 2007 serk3 with Screamin'Eagle Heavy Breather and a German Street Legal Kess Tech exhaust.
When the Exhaust System is open it ha 100 hp and a torque of 124
Peter
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Here's a run on with my 103"!!
Seem's to be making more then you guys with there 110"
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Here's a run on with my 103"!!
Seem's to be making more then you guys with there 110"
Depends, what gear was this run pulled in, what SAE correction was used?
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5th gear, Number 5 SAE smoothing.
Running a 535 S&S gear cam.
Stock pipes.
10:1 pistons
Arlen Ness big Sucker.
Just put on a set of V&H Big Shot Longs so I don't have the new sheet till spring but it should be higher after the next tune.
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5th gear, Number 5 SAE smoothing.
Running a 535 S&S gear cam.
Stock pipes.
10:1 pistons
Arlen Ness big Sucker.
Just put on a set of V&H Big Shot Longs so I don't have the new sheet till spring but it should be higher after the next tune.
Not the smoothing, at the bottom it should say SAE then a number, look at kona76's slip above, changes to this number changes the HP and TQ output. Unscrupulous tuners some time do pulls at two different numbers to make it look like they did something, or to exaggerate what they did. As for the gear, there's no right or wrong, but most tuner's I know of pull in 4th gear, if you use 5th you hp and TQ numbers will be higher. So you have to compare apples to apples here. If you did a pull in 4th gear at the same time as your run, your numbers would be lower. Just things to watch when you go to a tuner, they can make things look better than they are.
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Not the smoothing, at the bottom it should say SAE then a number, look at kona76's slip above, changes to this number changes the HP and TQ output. Unscrupulous tuners some time do pulls at two different numbers to make it look like they did something, or to exaggerate what they did. As for the gear, there's no right or wrong, but most tuner's I know of pull in 4th gear, if you use 5th you hp and TQ numbers will be higher. So you have to compare apples to apples here. If you did a pull in 4th gear at the same time as your run, your numbers would be lower. Just things to watch when you go to a tuner, they can make things look better than they are.
Not to mention rear tire pressure and drum tension .....
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Here's a couple of sites that talk about different subjects related to dyno tuning, good stuff to know before you pay for dyno time. It's mostly generic, not just about bikes, but relate to the same issues.
Bottom line is when you twist your wrist what does your face say!
http://www.dynamometer-info.co.uk/automotive-dyno-correction-factors.htm
http://www.land-and-sea.com/dyno-tech-talk/dyno-tech-talk.htm
Craig
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Ya all know me, kinda. I am a straight shooter, calls it the way I saw it and ride true with the our CVO Family. That's what I get, it's what I give. I am actually weary of the numbers thing. With all of the variables, and all of the creative "tuner tips and tricks" that can change results by customers' "needs" and desires by guys just like me.....I am tired of it.
I know what I really want.
I want to impress my brothers and sisters that understand and comprehend the conversation with numbers that make em' change their countenance to one of shock :o and covetness. Is that a word? I want to share my experience with the top dogs in an equally level playing field and get the look of approval. Got me? When ya'all share the numbers to impress, I want to be there with ya and smile along. I have been doing just that: "smiling" ;D , along with some laughing :laugh4: and crying :bigcry: . I will continue this for a long time, I am sure.
I know what I really need.
I need the Tuner that I choose to be rightous, real and know way more than the tuners I have had such bad luck with; and have greater knowledge than I do in such things (which has got to be easy). I need the next tune to get rid of the throttle lag, and make my SERK perform, feel and behave like a Premium Dollar Ride should. I need to invest my time and money, not waste it like I have been guessing and searching for the right guy to do the work. My contact list in the Los Angeles area is weak at best. My CVO (cvoharley.com) contacts: top notch everybody, I thank you again.
I need to listen to people I respect like edfive, Bob @ RC Cycles, Hoist and you all know the list.... I need my ride to PERFORM, and enhancements are my call, be it mistake or groundbreaking efforts.
I need much more, and want a list like Santa could only imagine! At ripe old age of 50, my needs outweigh my wants via my wallet and experience.
Who said it first: if the components and tune are there, the nuimbers will be there. Who said that?
I am off to get the tune and numbers that come with all of the above..... and still blow ya away from the line....
I imagine that's after the throttle lag problem is gone, huh???? Okay, so blow ya away ...on the freeway..... lol
Mike K.
kona76
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Nicely put Mike. I hope you can find who'll do that for ya. That's the toughest challenge we face, finding that RIGHT guy. The guy that KNOWS what he's doing. The guy that gets it RIGHT, not just "good enough". A GREAT tune makes all the difference in the world on these bikes. It's THE most important thing you can do to them, no matter what mods, if any at all! When it's right, you know it, and there's no better feeling in the world than being one with your bike!!! So then ya get it "JUST RIGHT", and that lasts only so long. 5K, 10K, 20K 50K, 100K, whatever. Chit breaks, I break chit, or ya wanna make a change. And ya work on getting it "just right" again, so you can be one with your machine all over again!!! :2vrolijk_21:
And I'm with ya on the numbers thing. You can't compare 1 dyno to another. They're all over the place with the setups. The one thing that doesn't change is the guy's knowledge and ability whose tuning it. Either you know this chit like the back of your hand and you can predict what a change will do, or you guess. You go specifically to correct all of the tables, not trial and error experimenting. You don't just drop a canned map in and maybe do a lil tweaking, or focus on one thing alone like AFR, with no regard to efficiency. You spend the time you need to get every spot right, not skip around and make it "good enough". This is what a REAL tuner does compared to guys that can supposedly tune. It's worth the cost and travel to have your bike tuned PROPERLY and PERFECTLY by an EXPERT! The numbers don't matter, the shape of the torque curve matters. The numbers are only relevent to help you analyze the curve. They should just leave the numbers off and create a scale for analyzing it. You can tell exactly how a bike rides by the shape of that curve. Your ass will tell ya how strong it is. We used to tune years ago by taking the bike to the track, and jetting the carb til we got the fastest track times for our setups. S&S has been saying that for years. That's real world chit! That's what REALLY matters! STN! ;)
I appreciate you mentioning me with those others above, but I'm not in their league at all. I'm an AVID enthusiast, who lives and breathes this chit, but not on any of those Pro's level. I'm lucky I've a close friend I can rely on whose worked on my bikes for 20 years. I try to learn, absorb, and understand EVERTHING I can about my machines. I'm an HVAC Engineer by career, but have been into bikes and performance since I was a teen. I learned what I learned from reading everything I can AND experience. Used to do some wrenching, no more. Been hanging around Vern's shop forever, days watching him wrench and build motors, and partying late into the evenings talkin more bikes. Raced a lil, and love to hellride like a MoFo! I'll only recommend or bash something if I've personally tried it, or have been with others who have so I can still see the results for myself. I call a spade a spade, and don't sugarcoat nuthin! I do it all for myself out of my passion for motorcycles, but I enjoy sharing all that I've learned with others. Everyone should always do their own due diligence however, and take EVERYTHING you hear with a grain of salt until you're satisfied that you can agree with it. Or not. I rely very heavily on certain people's opinions too, but listen to ALL suggestions. Then I decide what to do. It's my decision, my money, and I live with the results. I'll try something if I'm convinced of the results, then tell ya if I love it, hate it, if it's well made, or a POS! I've had a great many successes, and my share of failures. Learned from all of em and move on. I try to have the goal clear before making decisions. But anyone tells ya their bike never breaks is either FOS or doesn't really ride! Find a REALLY GREAT WRENCH who you can trust, and get close with him. You'll learn more than you can imagine hanging around a guy like that. You'll have a blast doing it too! He'll take pride in getting your machine running perfectly. And like I said, nuthin better than being one with your bike!!! :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3:
Hoist! 8)
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Not the smoothing, at the bottom it should say SAE then a number, look at kona76's slip above, changes to this number changes the HP and TQ output. Unscrupulous tuners some time do pulls at two different numbers to make it look like they did something, or to exaggerate what they did. As for the gear, there's no right or wrong, but most tuner's I know of pull in 4th gear, if you use 5th you hp and TQ numbers will be higher. So you have to compare apples to apples here. If you did a pull in 4th gear at the same time as your run, your numbers would be lower. Just things to watch when you go to a tuner, they can make things look better than they are.
So what your saying is that my QA 50 can be made to look like its pulling 100hp?
I'll tell ya what I raced a couple 110's and killed them with my 103 so either the 110" is real slow or that dyno is real off!!!
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I also killed several times a 2003 serk 103" with K&N air intake, Rineharts true duals and dynoed. Also a 1500 Gold Wing and a 2001 Road King with 1550"kit. But with my last bike. A 2002 Fat boy, 88" with only SE-203 cams, K&N air intake and V&H Big Shots staggered. Not dynoed, only recalibration with a cartridge included on SE air intake kit. Sometimes life show us unexplainable things. :oops:
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So what your saying is that my QA 50 can be made to look like its pulling 100hp?
I'll tell ya what I raced a couple 110's and killed them with my 103 so either the 110" is real slow or that dyno is real off!!!
Just saying don't get wrapped up in dyno numbers, especially when compairing to others that were run on different dyno's. Also you need to have all the info, gear, and correction factor the same when making compairsons. Like I said, what matters is how you like the way your bike performs for you. You also have to look at more than the highest output numbers, where does the TQ and HP come on, you don't ride in 5K-6K rpm range all the time.
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The SERK diyno for December 2008:
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I just had my 07 FLHRSE 3 Dyno tuned and I will post the Dyno Sheet. I'm asking if the numbers look correct, just wondering if they are on par with everyone else thats had a dyno tune. After the tune the seat of the pants dyno says it's running a little quicker or maybe it was the long winter.
Only Mods done to the bike are:
SERT
Rhinehart True Duals
S/E Heavy Breather Kit
Dyno Tune
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/theozz/DynoSheet.jpg)
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07 SERK - V&H Big Shots, SERT, Andrews 55H. I think the true duals are preventing me from making more HP, so will probably be installing Fat Cats soon. I hate chasing numbers but it has come to that....
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CVO Road King 2008 (alas no scanner):
stock with xied's 80hp
seac with xieds 90 hp 125 nm (bad road manners, knock sensor kicking in at times)
seac with PC V 92,5 hp 140 nm (good drivability well over 200km/h according to garmin zumo)
bypassed 02 sensors and active exhaust valve stock mufflers, AFR 13,2-13,5 no ignition timing alterations
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Here's the sheet after putting on the T-Man stage 3 heads and 590 cam. I also switch from Rinehart True Duals to the D&D Fat Cat w/ Big Boar Quiet baffle.
This link is the original build sheet:
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=12079.msg409115#msg409115
There are a lot of 117 builds doing better than this but most are running higher compression than I am. I'm happy with the outcome, and I'm the only one that matters! :)
JW
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Didn't you switch tuning modules and tuners as well. You went to someone who knew what they were doing? yes?
Not sure that vendors stirring the pot is in their best interest here. Just saying.
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Didn't you switch tuning modules and tuners as well. You went to someone who knew what they were doing? yes?
Pam, I am not flaming your company in anyway. As I stated, I decided to try a different package. To answer your questions:
The tuning module for the original T-Man build dyno sheet was with SERT. Then the ECM went out and had to be replaced. My dealer insisted Harley replace the SERT with the SEST. They feel it "talks" to the wireless throtte system better. The results were virtually identical between the two. I believe my dealer knows what they are doing but like anyone can make mistakes.
I decided to have T-Man look over the package as I was in North Carolina on a bike trip. Brian did a tune to try to remove the dip created by the Fat Cats which he was able to do. Also the bike hesitated at the start. I asked Brian if there is a problem with the SERT and the 08 throttle system. He said the SERT works fine with the 08 system and should not be a problem with my build. He added he perfers the SEST with the 08 system but it is "not really better."
This sheet shows the difference in the dealer's dyno (SERT) and T-Man dyno (SEST). The overall number are not significantly different but the torque dip is gone. My dealer did mess up and leave an intake leak the last time they put the bike back together. We knew something was amiss but I did not have time to let em look for the problem as I was leaving for my trip. I still have faith in them as they have always treated me right. I see no reason to assume someone did not know what they were doing. My bike, my money, my decision.
JW
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V&H Pro Pipe Hi Output 10,5:1 58TB Ported heads 251 Cams and heavy breather..
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Not sure if I should have posted this here, if not, then please move it to the appropriate section. Had my bike dyno'd the other day for the first time, and first time since installing cams and Evo Industries 30T sprocket. Attached is the Dyno sheet. Not bad for no dyno tuning and the last I tuned it with my TTS Mastertune was after the cam install. I waited another couple of weeks to install the 30T. I fixed the issues with the primary chain, the tensioner wasn't doing it's job. Fixed. Still have a Wedge 2 on order from SOHB. Probably on back-order like all the rest.
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I got my bike dyno tuned today finally. I was pleased with the results. It came out to 102hp and 101 torque. If someone can tell me how to convert an xps file to something I can post here I will post the curve.
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What is your set up?
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I put on a D&D fat cat quiet baffle, Ness big sucker intake, SE251 cams and that is it, otherwise completely stock. It was tuned with TTS Mastertune software on a dynojet. The guy spent about 4 hours with it. It turned out good.
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Here's the dyno sheet on my 02 SERK
95" with SE stage 1 A/C, BUB 7 TD, Super Tuner
Red line was from the unknown tune set up in the bike when I bought it last November
Blue line is current tune
JW
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That seems not bad at all for an untouched motor. Certainly runs well enough to let you enjoy some patience and think long and hard about just what you want to do. No reason to rush in to it when running like that.
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That seems not bad at all for an untouched motor. Certainly runs well enough to let you enjoy some patience and think long and hard about just what you want to do. No reason to rush in to it when running like that.
Have never been know for much patience. Showed the ol girl some love. I had John Sachs work on a set of the older style heads. He set the compression at a moderate 9.74 - 1 with a .030 head gasket to work with the SE 203 cam. No other mods were made.
The torque curve flatten out some, running out a bit further. Before she felt like she dropped off a bit quick (around 4000). She pulls well now. While the overall tq did not change, the range of power sure did. Got more ponies too.
If I have tensioner problems in the future, I will look at different cams (conversion or gear) but for now I'm happy with her! Fun ride.
JW
Blue line is with J Sachs heads / Red line is stock heads