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Author Topic: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation  (Read 14594 times)

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EGrunt

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2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« on: January 03, 2013, 01:06:07 PM »

Hi,

Within the past week of taking delivery of my 2013 Atomic Orange CVO Road Glide I have been stopped by two motor officer's for having smoked tail lamps. The ironic thing is I am a motor officer as well. I did not even think to look the bike over since it was new. Long story short no ticket given but advised on the equipment violation. Just wanted to see if other CVO Road Glide owners in California have experienced the same thing. The vehicle code violation is: CVC24600(e) which states, 24600.  During darkness every motor vehicle which is not in combination with any other vehicle and every vehicle at the end of a combination of vehicles shall be equipped with lighted taillamps mounted on the rear as follows:(e) Taillamps shall be RED IN COLOR and shall be plainly visible from all distances within 500 feet to the rear except that taillamps on vehicles manufactured after January 1, 1969, shall be plainly visible from all distances within 1,000 feet to the rear. I thought I could replace the smoked tail lamps with red ones however Harley Davidson only makes smoked and amber replacement tail lamps and no red ones. Has anyone else in California have this issue with the tail lamps.

UPDATE: 01/04/2013

I contacted Harley Davidson directly several days ago, I explained my dilemma with the tail lamps. They got back with me and advised me that the bikes tail lamps are compliant with California law and I concur with their findings. I am of the belief that the bulb is red and even though the lens is smoked when the bulb is illuminated it displays red through the smoked lens. So long story short there are no vehicle code violations with the tail lamps.    
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 09:05:46 PM by EGrunt »
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Vyscera

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 01:29:18 PM »

While I no longer live in CA, and I'm not law enforcement, it is worth noting that the regulation states "during darkness" when the lamps will be glowing red. A taillamp is technically the bulb, not lense. A clear lense with a red bulb should also meet that requirement as it shines red light. The light is what needs to be visible by those deifned distances. That reg gives no appearance guide, but operational guidelines.
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King Glide

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2013, 01:46:35 PM »

Interesting, letter of the law says " tail lamp" not tail light, meaning even chromed part of lamp is illegal as well as the lens. That argument might lend weight in court when arguing letter vs spirit to beat a ticket. It should also be stated that the law should be updated to light bulb as we now have red bulbs but didn't when the law was written.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 01:48:53 PM by King roadglide »
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2013, 01:48:09 PM »

While I no longer live in CA, and I'm not law enforcement, it is worth noting that the regulation states "during darkness" when the lamps will be glowing red. A taillamp is technically the bulb, not lense. A clear lense with a red bulb should also meet that requirement as it shines red light. The light is what needs to be visible by those deifned distances. That reg gives no appearance guide, but operational guidelines.

Agreed.  I have got to believe that the Motor Company would equip the CA bikes with red lenses if it were the law seeing as they build the bikes to adhere to specific codes/laws. 
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dayne66

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 01:55:01 PM »

 A friend's Son wanted smoked lenses on the back of his F150 and used a type of spray paint. I wonder if there is something for making a lens red.
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ultrarider123

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2013, 02:00:20 PM »

Could just move out of California.... :2vrolijk_21:

Sorry, couldn't hep misef.

Sounds like legal gobbledygoop as it's worded in a way that darned if you do and darned if you don't.  What a country, huh :'(
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EGrunt

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2013, 02:15:38 PM »

While I no longer live in CA, and I'm not law enforcement, it is worth noting that the regulation states "during darkness" when the lamps will be glowing red. A taillamp is technically the bulb, not lense. A clear lense with a red bulb should also meet that requirement as it shines red light. The light is what needs to be visible by those deifned distances. That reg gives no appearance guide, but operational guidelines.

I researched the same thing since the bulb is red however after speaking with CHP (California Highway Patrol) the lens has to be red. I knew this but wanted to make sure I was not missing something. CVC 24603(e) deals with the color of the bulb for the tail lamps. There is also another section CVC 26101 that deals with tinting of the tail lamps. Upon speaking with Harley Davidson they mentioned DOT stamps on the lens, I already knew that state law supersedes over DOT markings but I verified this as well with the CHP. I am hoping the motor company (HD) can produce red lens but I am not holding my breath. 
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 02:17:19 PM »

Excuse my ignorance, but doesn't a lamp with a smoked lens still glow red when the red LED's or bulbs are activated?  And aren't the tail lamps always illuminated whenever the ignition is powered?  I think someone has gotten carried away in their interpretation of that regulation.  Admittedly the ones I've looked at on Harley's aren't terribly bright even at night, but they do look red to me.  Perhaps the problem comes from the requirement that they be visible from 1000 feet away.  In my experience they aren't all that visible from 100 feet away.

I would suggest that you refer anyone wanting to cite you to the Harley-Davidson Motor Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and the NHTSA.  Supposedly the vehicle met all Federal and State motor vehicle regulations when it was sold, and if some individual LEO's want to start some chit they need to start it at the source, not with the end user.  If a state wants to play jackass after the fact, they need to see about forcing the MoCo to retrofit all those illegal bikes they certified were legal when they sold them in that state.  I'm willing to bet it won't happen, and Federal regulations will trump an outdated state reg.

I personally prefer to maximize visibility with good old fashioned red lenses and bright bulbs, versus the currently trendy stealth approach of smoked lenses.  I was amazed that the Federal government allowed this.  I wasn't amazed that Harley would reduce visibility and safety in the name of style though.

Jerry
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2013, 02:18:35 PM »

I researched the same thing since the bulb is red however after speaking with CHP (California Highway Patrol) the lens has to be red. I knew this but wanted to make sure I was not missing something. CVC 24603(e) deals with the color of the bulb for the tail lamps. There is also another section CVC 26101 that deals with tinting of the tail lamps. Upon speaking with Harley Davidson they mentioned DOT stamps on the lens, I already knew that state law supersedes over DOT markings but I verified this as well with the CHP. I am hoping the motor company (HD) can produce red lens but I am not holding my breath.  
So....the MOCO is willing to pay any tickets associated with their non-conforming product?
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rdawg

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 02:26:50 PM »

The vehicle code violation is: CVC24600(e) which states, 24600.  During darkness every motor vehicle which is not in combination with any other vehicle and every vehicle at the end of a combination of vehicles shall be equipped with lighted taillamps mounted on the rear as follows:(e) Taillamps shall be RED IN COLOR and shall be plainly visible from all distances within 500 feet to the rear except that taillamps on vehicles manufactured after January 1, 1969, shall be plainly visible from all distances within 1,000 feet to the rear. I thought I could replace the smoked tail lamps with red ones however Harley Davidson only makes smoked and amber replacement tail lamps and no red ones. Has anyone else in California have this issue with the tail lamps.

My wifes 2010 FLHXSE is the same way.  The way I read the section as long as the emitted light is red it complies.  Whether it has clear lenses or smoke the light is red coming out.  There are many newer cars with clear lenses in the recent years and they are DOT approved.  FMVSS 108 only states the light must be red not the lens.....Think they were misredading the section.  
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 02:59:18 PM »

Like many laws....left to the discreation of the officer writing the ticket......the judge will sort it out.

But personally, I think the two officers that stopped EGrunt were a little over zealous and maybe a bit biased towards motorcyclists.  They might try using a little common sense along with a little discreation.  In this case, I can't help but wonder if he'd not had a badge to show them, if he'd have ended up with a couple of fix-it tickets.  Either way....petty enough to be a waste of tax payers money.

I see vehicles all up and down the state with clear lenses or smoked lenses but they all still light up red when the brakes are applied or the lights turned on.  EGrunt, if you don't mind sharing with us.....what area were you stopped in and was it the same agency that stopped you both times?
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2013, 03:16:05 PM »

Good points above. It also would not be the first time someone with a custom bike got stopped by an officer just so he could look at it. This has happened to me a couple times ostensibly due to some non conforming part which was of course conforming. Since your tail lights are on whenever the bike is running, they were red! That belies the officers' claim that they were "smoked."

I just went out and checked the lenses  on my '09.  The lenses are clear but the background is dark. That is why they appear to be smoked when off.  They are clearly read when on and certainly visible for the distances the Statue requires.  They also bear the initials "SAE" which stands for:

"SAE International, formerly the Society of Automotive Engineers, is a US-based organization for engineering professionals in the aerospace, automotive, and commercial vehicle industries. The Society coordinates the development of technical standards based on best practices identified and described by SAE committees and task forces comprising engineering professionals in the relevant fields. SAE International has over 120,000 members globally. Membership is granted to individuals, not through companies. Aside from standards development SAE International also devotes resources to projects and programs in STEM education, professional certification, and collegiate design competitions."

The reason I mention that is that I believe the DOT regulations trump any contrary State law or regulation.  I don't have the time to do the resort on that issue right now but I believe I have seen it and it would make sense to be any other way.  Maybe EGrunt can help us out there. 
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rdawg

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2013, 03:35:07 PM »



The reason I mention that is that I believe the DOT regulations trump any contrary State law or regulation.  I don't have the time to do the resort on that issue right now but I believe I have seen it and it would make sense to be any other way.  Maybe EGrunt can help us out there. 

Yes they do, states cannot make laws more restrictive than the federal side.  Same thing came up when headlight modulators became available for Motorcycles.
The lights are DOT approved and marked in the lens.

Found this at Kissan's website (modulator manufacturer)

https://www.kisantech.com/regulations.php
Title 49 USC 30103(b1) (US Codes) prohibits any state from forbidding a system that conforms to FMVSS 108. No State or Local ordinance shall usurp the authority and enforcement of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2013, 03:46:54 PM »

Yes they do, states cannot make laws more restrictive than the federal side.  Same thing came up when headlight modulators became available for Motorcycles.
The lights are DOT approved and marked in the lens.

Found this at Kissan's website (modulator manufacturer)

https://www.kisantech.com/regulations.php
Title 49 USC 30103(b1) (US Codes) prohibits any state from forbidding a system that conforms to FMVSS 108. No State or Local ordinance shall usurp the authority and enforcement of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.

So, didn't the original poster, who is a police officer, state the opposite? 

From EGrunt - "I already knew that state law supersedes over DOT markings but I verified this as well with the CHP."

If I'm reading that correctly, it would turn out that all officers mentioned in this story (including the original poster) are confused as to how to apply the law.  Hmmmm...
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2013, 04:02:35 PM »

After reading the section quoted, I'd agree that the interpretation should have a "mis" in front of it as in misinterpretation...

Sounds like the spirit of the law was to prevent folks from using pink and green lights or by smoking or spraying the lights so that a funky version of red is displayed... we have similar laws up here.

You're probably really only going to have an issue if you come across the same guy again or anybody he trained... many of these folks interpet the law their own way and only can have the behaviour corrected by getting on the stand, giving their evidence, and being told by the Judge or Justice that they are wrong.

 :police:
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rdawg

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2013, 04:15:18 PM »

So, didn't the original poster, who is a police officer, state the opposite?  

From EGrunt - "I already knew that state law supersedes over DOT markings but I verified this as well with the CHP."

If I'm reading that correctly, it would turn out that all officers mentioned in this story (including the original poster) are confused as to how to apply the law.  Hmmmm...

Yes he did, not sure what CHP office gave him that info, but in my 29 years the CHP you get different answers depending on who you ask.  I would write a letter to the Commercial Veh Section in Sacramento and they will reply in writing.  Harley would not be selling these if they were illegal with out a disclaimer.
And they look pretty red to me? :2vrolijk_21:


« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 04:30:33 PM by rdawg »
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2013, 05:20:22 PM »

So, didn't the original poster, who is a police officer, state the opposite? 

From EGrunt - "I already knew that state law supersedes over DOT markings but I verified this as well with the CHP."

If I'm reading that correctly, it would turn out that all officers mentioned in this story (including the original poster) are confused as to how to apply the law.   Hmmmm...

"Officer's discreation" can be very broad and very vague.....depending on the officer.

In this thread we've had a CHP Officer and a California attorney post their views and interpretation.  Knowing both of these guys like I do, I don't think either would be accused of making hasty and irrational judgment by anybody.  They both make a convincing argument. 

I put a hell of a lot of miles on a 2010 SESG (has smoked lenses until the ignition is turned on) and I was stopped and wrote tickets more than once on that bike......however, it wasn't for smoked tail lights. Yer honor I submit.....



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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2013, 05:22:38 PM »

Yes he did, not sure what CHP office gave him that info, but in my 29 years the CHP you get different answers depending on who you ask.  I would write a letter to the Commercial Veh Section in Sacramento and they will reply in writing.  Harley would not be selling these if they were illegal with out a disclaimer.
And they look pretty red to me? :2vrolijk_21:




Rich, I don't believe he indicated that it was CHP officers that stopped him, he just said "motor officers".  Sounds like LAPD. :nixweiss:


By the way.....that tail light looks very familiar! :huepfenlol2:   I sure hope those are some kind of reflection and not scratches. :nixweiss:
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rdawg

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2013, 05:41:13 PM »

Rich, I don't believe he indicated that it was CHP officers that stopped him, he just said "motor officers".  Sounds like LAPD. :nixweiss:


By the way.....that tail light looks very familiar! :huepfenlol2:   I sure hope those are some kind of reflection and not scratches. :nixweiss:

JC
Yes it is just a reflection.....and a little dirt....didnt know you had illegal lights on it though....
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2013, 07:32:03 PM »

Sounds like its time to call Arnold Swartzenager! :huepfenlol2:
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2013, 07:38:28 PM »

Sounds like its time to call Arnold Swartzenager! :huepfenlol2:

...thought he wasn't gonna be back!
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2013, 09:24:52 PM »

Thanks for all the comments and replies. The two officer's that stopped me, one from my agency and the other was a CHP officer. I spoke at length with two CHP Officer's (today not the one that stopped me) via phone up in Sacramento and locally at the Oceanside office. Both CHP Officer's stated the bike needed red tail lamp lens. However the Oceanside CHP Officer stated that it might need to go to court since it came from the factory. Both CHP Officer's agreed that state law in this case the California vehicle code supersedes DOT regulations. In other words, vehicles have to meet federal regulations but the state (in this case California) can add to the regulation but can not reduce it from the federal standard. The Officer from my agency just attended training specifically for motorcycles and they talked at length about lighting modifications. I think the problem is that the only motorcycle that I have seem with smoke tail lamps is the CVO street glide and road glide. I would believe that Harley would have done their home work on all legal requirements prior to releasing the bike. I hate to use the word assume but I think over the years we are use to seeing red tail lamps in both automobiles and motorcycles. There are vehicle being manufactured with clear tail lamps but there is still red in the lens, one vehicle I just saw today is the Toyota Prius, I would say 90% of the lens is clear and the lower portion is red. Here is another point, when reading the CVC section most would interpret the word tail lamp as the bulb that illuminates but when I Google Harley tail lamp pictures it shows nothing but lens and both CHP Officer's again agreed. We also talked about CVC 26101: 26101.  (a) A person shall not sell or offer for sale for use upon or as part of the equipment of a vehicle any device that is intended to modify the original design or performance of any lighting equipment, safety glazing material, or other device, unless the modifying device meets the provisions of Section 26104.(b) A person shall not use upon a vehicle, and a person shall not drive a vehicle upon a highway that has installed a device that is intended to modify the original design or performance of a lighting, safety glazing material, or other device, unless the modifying device complies with Section 26104.(c) This section does not apply to a taillamp or stop lamp in use on or prior to December 1, 1935, or to lamps installed on authorized emergency vehicles. Then I need to know if the tail lamps are compliant with CVC 26104: 26104(a) Every manufacturer who sells, offers for sale, or manufactures for use upon a vehicle devices subject to requirements established by the department shall, before the device is offered for sale, have laboratory test data showing compliance with such requirements. Tests may be conducted by the manufacturer.(b) The department may at any time request from the manufacturer a copy of the test data showing proof of compliance of any device with the requirements established by the department and additional evidence that due care was exercised in maintaining compliance during production. If the manufacturer fails to provide such proof of compliance within 30 days of notice from the department, the department may prohibit the sale of the device in this state until acceptable proof of compliance is received by the department. I am educating myself in this matter not only as a owner but for vehicle enforcement matters. I am going to talk with our Traffic Commissioner's to see if CVC 24600(e) deals with just the lighting bulb or the lens assembly as well.

On a positive note I love the bike
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 10:15:01 AM by EGrunt »
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2013, 10:19:11 PM »

Egrunt
I think you will find that the red section on the bottom of the Prius Lamp assembly is a red reflector as well as the sides to comply with 24607 and 24608 VC. 
26101 doesn't apply as these lamps in question have not been modified from their original design / manufacture.  I have only seen the amber ones in the European market, as amber tail lamps on these model years would be a violation in CA.


Good luck in your search and enjoy your new bike!
Rich
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2013, 10:08:44 AM »

I see vehicles all up and down the state with clear lenses or smoked lenses but they all still light up red when the brakes are applied or the lights turned on.  EGrunt, if you don't mind sharing with us.....what area were you stopped in and was it the same agency that stopped you both times?

I was stopped in San Diego County, the first time was in Oceanside (local PD)and the second time I was in city of San Diego exiting the 163 by the CHP. I work with the guy in Oceanside and since I have been on vacation for the past two weeks no one knew I purchased a new bike. I thought the CHP officer was pulling me over for playing the stereo to loud.
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2013, 11:00:50 AM »

Lexus has made the RX330 since 05, I think? The SUV has completely clear taillights no reflector at all.
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2013, 12:55:20 PM »

Excuse my ignorance, but doesn't a lamp with a smoked lens still glow red when the red LED's or bulbs are activated?  And aren't the tail lamps always illuminated whenever the ignition is powered?  I think someone has gotten carried away in their interpretation of that regulation.  Admittedly the ones I've looked at on Harley's aren't terribly bright even at night, but they do look red to me.  Perhaps the problem comes from the requirement that they be visible from 1000 feet away.  In my experience they aren't all that visible from 100 feet away.

I would suggest that you refer anyone wanting to cite you to the Harley-Davidson Motor Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and the NHTSA.  Supposedly the vehicle met all Federal and State motor vehicle regulations when it was sold, and if some individual LEO's want to start some chit they need to start it at the source, not with the end user.  If a state wants to play jackass after the fact, they need to see about forcing the MoCo to retrofit all those illegal bikes they certified were legal when they sold them in that state.  I'm willing to bet it won't happen, and Federal regulations will trump an outdated state reg.

I personally prefer to maximize visibility with good old fashioned red lenses and bright bulbs, versus the currently trendy stealth approach of smoked lenses.  I was amazed that the Federal government allowed this.  I wasn't amazed that Harley would reduce visibility and safety in the name of style though.

Jerry


+1  :2vrolijk_21:     I would ask your dealer to contact the Motor Company and bring them up to date on the issue. Or, write a letter to the Motor Company and ask for their resolution.

If it's not resolved they have a big recall to do.

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2013, 04:17:11 PM »

JC
Yes it is just a reflection.....and a little dirt....didnt know you had illegal lights on it though....

They weren't illegal until I sold it to a CHP Officer.  :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2013, 04:48:17 PM »

          This is bizarre!!!
Leave it up to the liberal left coast, I am a cop ( 17 years ), and I have NEVER heard of state trumping Feds on motor vehicle laws. On top of all of that, like mentioned in thread, there are currently a bunch of cars being sold that would not be compliant in California. I still have my first car (1979 Pontiac Trans Am) first factory car with smoked tail lights, in 34 years I got stopped ( more times than I like to admit ), but never a problem with tail lights.
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2013, 05:28:22 PM »


I certainly hope no one is taking this thread seriously and actually worrying about having to modify their bike to avoid a ticket.  All you have here is another case of individual officers "interpreting" a law incorrectly, for whatever reason.  The bike is certified to meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, including standard 108 which covers all exterior lighting.  Case closed.  If you still have doubts, I'd suggest consulting someone higher up the food chain who actually understands the Federal and State relationship when it comes to motor vehicle standards.  Try your state attorney general's office, or contact the DOT or NHTSA.  If you want to have some fun, call the Harley Customer Disservice number and throw this issue in their lap.   

Jerry
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2013, 05:55:10 PM »

I'm with you (and apparently a number of others here) Jerry.....I think it's a non issue.

But I can't say I wouldn't like to see somebody get a ticket for it and let the courts settle it if they are teaching officers to go after this kind of thing.

Rich, have you heard of any training regarding this for the CHP or is it just local agencies getting a bit over zealous like they did for awhile with exhaust?
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2013, 06:26:12 PM »

Motor1 - IDK.  I was stopped for "gray" tinted turn signals.  It's been two years ago when my '11 was new.  I'm sorry to say I don't remember if I was "home" (Illinois) or some other state.  Been in a lot of states in 2 years.  And, yes, I feel like an idiot.  CRS!  In any case, got a warning.  Changed to red lenses at my earliest convenience.  Was not and is not worth the hassle.

grc - Cali out of control?  Nah, never.

Seems obvious states can supercede.  Geeez!  My 1957 Chevy had a California bumper on it!!!  Kinda collectable.  It was one piece as opposed to all others being three pieces.

Gotta luv the dot gov, eh?!
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2013, 07:37:53 PM »

I'm with you (and apparently a number of others here) Jerry.....I think it's a non issue.

But I can't say I wouldn't like to see somebody get a ticket for it and let the courts settle it if they are teaching officers to go after this kind of thing.

Rich, have you heard of any training regarding this for the CHP or is it just local agencies getting a bit over zealous like they did for awhile with exhaust?
JC
We haven't had anything on MC's including exhaust.... but I think in 2013 the exhaust issue will be coming back.  We have training every January on the new laws going into effect but haven't seen the booklets they hand out.  Last equipment type training was for street racers put on by Fresno PD, seems they went after the emissions laws with the street racers for modifications and then sent violators to the smog referee.  Seemed more harassment than anything else.....IMHO

I would write a letter to CHP HQ on the issue and they would have to respond in writing.  Then carry a copy if needed.
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2013, 09:22:03 PM »

I updated my original post and believe this issue to be closed with no vehicle code violation with the tail lamps. I contacted Harley Customer Service several days ago and I heard back from them stating the bikes tail lamps are compliant with vehicle code of California. I am of the belief that since the bulb is red and the lens is smoked when the bulb is illuminated it displays red so there is no CVC 24600(e) violation. I want to thank Rdawg who provided insight on this matter. I was wrong in stating that State law superseded Federal law, that what I get from listening to another Officer at work. I should have known better after spending 20 years in Marine Corps I learned not to listen to sea bag lawyers on any important issue. Thanks again.   
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2013, 09:31:55 PM »

I updated my original post and believe this issue to be closed with no vehicle code violation with the tail lamps. I contacted Harley Customer Service several days ago and I heard back from them stating the bikes tail lamps are compliant with vehicle code of California. I am of the belief that since the bulb is red and the lens is smoked when the bulb is illuminated it displays red so there is no CVC 24600(e) violation. I want to thank Rdawg who provided insight on this matter. I was wrong in stating that State law superseded Federal law, that what I get from listening to another Officer at work. I should have known better after spending 20 years in Marine Corps I learned not to listen to sea bag lawyers on any important issue. Thanks again.  

Hopefully you got it in writing from the Motor Company. That's a letter I would carry in my hard bag in a plastic baggie for the next time I was stopped.....and you know there will be a next time.

BTW: THANKS FOR PROTECTING US HERE IN THE US.  It's not safe anywhere much these days.

SEMPER FI

Jerry (also)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 10:35:36 AM by CVOStreetglide »
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JCZ

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2013, 09:36:57 AM »

I updated my original post and believe this issue to be closed with no vehicle code violation with the tail lamps. I contacted Harley Customer Service several days ago and I heard back from them stating the bikes tail lamps are compliant with vehicle code of California. I am of the belief that since the bulb is red and the lens is smoked when the bulb is illuminated it displays red so there is no CVC 24600(e) violation. I want to thank Rdawg who provided insight on this matter. I was wrong in stating that State law superseded Federal law, that what I get from listening to another Officer at work. I should have known better after spending 20 years in Marine Corps I learned not to listen to sea bag lawyers on any important issue. Thanks again.   

Thanks a bunch for the clarification.  And welcome to the board, thanks a bunch for your service and Semper Fi.  :2vrolijk_21:

However, it is a bit concerning that you'd be stopped by two different agencies and that one is actually teaching the false information regarding their motorcycle training. :nixweiss:


Note to Rich......I sold you a bike with legal tail lights, you can breath easy now. :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2013, 07:46:58 PM »

So....the MOCO is willing to pay any tickets associated with their non-conforming product?

I think we are seeing a strange interpretation of laws now in Colorado. Whether you agree with legalizing marijuana or not, Colorado legalized it. and that only means this was done on the state level. If the Federal Government decided to raid the state, they could do so and arrest anyone in possession of the drug as it is still illegal on the Federal level.

Same hold true for this stupid statute: One could argue in California court that the tail lights passed FDOT inspections, however California would not care as you agree to State laws when you live in that state.

Sorry to say, California is a weird State when it comes to MV laws, I only learned of "smogging" a car by watching Judge Judy!!! LMAO
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 07:48:52 PM by Glenncarp »
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Fourthaxis

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2013, 09:05:01 PM »

I updated my original post and believe this issue to be closed with no vehicle code violation with the tail lamps.

Sorry to dig this back up, but I just joined to find out if you were actually ticketed and if you came to a resolution with the state of CA...  Though I don't own one of these bikes, I have an Ford F250 with tinted tail lights, PLUS supplemental DOT red reflectors on my bumper, yet received a ticket for ca vc 24600. 

This section seems to apply to night, and I'm further confused by cars such as the Prius and Nissan leaf which have clear lenses, and no red reflector in the location of the lighting...

In regards to your situation, or anyone else in CA who has trouble with factory equipment, the burden can be shifted to the manufacturer.  http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc26104.htm

V C Section 26104 Required Laboratory Tests

Required Laboratory Tests

26104.  (a) Every manufacturer who sells, offers for sale, or manufactures for use upon a vehicle devices subject to requirements established by the department shall, before the device is offered for sale, have laboratory test data showing compliance with such requirements. Tests may be conducted by the manufacturer.

(b) The department may at any time request from the manufacturer a copy of the test data showing proof of compliance of any device with the requirements established by the department and additional evidence that due care was exercised in maintaining compliance during production. If the manufacturer fails to provide such proof of compliance within 30 days of notice from the department, the department may prohibit the sale of the device in this state until acceptable proof of compliance is received by the department.
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2013, 11:39:02 PM »

Sorry to dig this back up, but I just joined to find out if you were actually ticketed and if you came to a resolution with the state of CA...  Though I don't own one of these bikes, I have an Ford F250 with tinted tail lights, PLUS supplemental DOT red reflectors on my bumper, yet received a ticket for ca vc 24600. 

This section seems to apply to night, and I'm further confused by cars such as the Prius and Nissan leaf which have clear lenses, and no red reflector in the location of the lighting...

In regards to your situation, or anyone else in CA who has trouble with factory equipment, the burden can be shifted to the manufacturer.  http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc26104.htm

V C Section 26104 Required Laboratory Tests

Required Laboratory Tests

26104.  (a) Every manufacturer who sells, offers for sale, or manufactures for use upon a vehicle devices subject to requirements established by the department shall, before the device is offered for sale, have laboratory test data showing compliance with such requirements. Tests may be conducted by the manufacturer.

(b) The department may at any time request from the manufacturer a copy of the test data showing proof of compliance of any device with the requirements established by the department and additional evidence that due care was exercised in maintaining compliance during production. If the manufacturer fails to provide such proof of compliance within 30 days of notice from the department, the department may prohibit the sale of the device in this state until accep' table proof of compliance is received by the department.
'tinted

Can't answer for EGRUNT but I don't think he was ever cited for these lights since they are factory OEM lights.
As for your Ford F250 lights, I assume they are not OEM lights or have been modified.  The reflectors are not required to be combined with the light assemblies, however, it is probably more cost effective to the industry to do that.  They are mounted separately as the prius does and several other models do.  The purpose of the reflector is to show the outlines of the vehicle if it were to to be blacked out at night, so there is no real need to be combined with the tail light/ stop light assemblies.

As far as clear lenses, it just seems to be the style, as long as the lights are red/amber when illuminated they are legal when the proper testing per 26104 is done.....
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