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CVO Technical => Twin Cam => Topic started by: Twolanerider on April 10, 2006, 04:18:30 PM
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[size=72]THEY'RE HERE!![/size]
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Don,
Just to be Firedood to the punch :)
[smiley=worthless.gif]
When are they going in and what exactly did you purchase ??
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Don,
Just to be Firedood to the punch :)
[smiley=worthless.gif]
When are they going in and what exactly did you purchase ??
From Zippers got the cams, gear drive kit, they're full on robot chubby pushrods, the oil pressure relief valve/shim/thing and of course a set of bearings. From another source also have a Feuling pump and lifters to do at the same time. And from an outstandingly cheap eBay score a couple of months ago also will go those dressy billet pushrod covers, lifter blocks and rocker box covers from the Harley P&A catalog.
The only downside to the parts arriving from Zippers so outstandingly promptly is that I didn't set time aside for the install until Friday. Even that's ok though as time is scheduled on the Dyno on Saturday. So if all goes well by mid-day Saturday it'll all be buttoned up and dialed in.
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Are you going to be using the Power Commander for adjusting A/F to the ECM?
May want to make sure they are using the latest software from DynoJet if they are and are you getting the Rev limiter increase module?
When you romp on the throttle after the dyno hold on the front tire does tend to leave the ground even though we know you will only use the extra power for country hill riding :)
It would be nice to get a collection of maps as well going.
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[smiley=worthless.gif]
Dammit, missed the [smiley=worthless.gif] . Ok, here ya go.
(Yes I was happy to see them!)
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Twolane,
Glad to hear your parts have arrived. I talked to Zippers today, and I'm just waiting on the Hi-Flo Air Filter (and told them just to hold off on shipping until all parts come in, since they were giving us discount). Since you have a digital camera and I don't (still waiting on Sam's) and can only use the camera phone to take pictures, please post a picture of what I have sitting on the shelf @ Zippers waiting for me. [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
BTW - Seems like we pretty much doing the same thing (as you well know) as far as upgrades to motor [except for fuel management (PC vs RT)]. I will be contacting dealer in next couple of days checking for appointment to have install/dyno done, and ordering Fueling Oil Pump and Lifters. Not sure if this will be able to be done before Myrtle Beach Bike Week, but not going to worry about it. You'll just have to drop some breadcrumbs or do like we do in fire service (I'll give you some balloons w/flour in them, and you can throw them on the road so I'll know which way you turned).
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Chit!! You beat me to it. I guess I'm typing slow... WTF is the "Trojanz" thingie? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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Don,
Just to be Firedood to the punch :)
[smiley=worthless.gif]
When are they going in and what exactly did you purchase ??
Harry,
You asked for this, and Don replied. Am I missing something here in translation? Is there something I don't know? I've heard of "postaltacos" but don
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Can someone please advise? :D
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
Wait until your parts show up. You'll be happy to see them too [smiley=drink.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=drink.gif]
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Wait until your parts show up.
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Looks like it's from Woody's wallet! There's a whole lot of wallet wear on that package!!! [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] ;D
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Well I see 3 flat push-rods, I see 2 cams, not exactly sure where the Andrews Box fits in, but
I also see Don is prepared in the event he might get lucky.
Don I was actually hoping for a better picture of all the parts for those who might want to know what this stuff all is .... I didn't do it, shame on me, but you are the picture sizing dude and i know that Firedood won't do it he keeps using Sam's doesnt have it in stock so i cant buy a digital camera excuse like no other store sells them.
I think a fruit bowl type of layout on a table would greatly help some people in that they would be sure of what they were getting or supposed to unbox :)
Both Cams, Bearings inner and outer, push rods, schim, oil pump, lifters, push rod tubes, lifter blocks, air cleaner etc and last but not least the emergency kit Trojan.
Like oil arent you supposed to change out that rubber every 2500 miles :)
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SEE ANDREWS TROJANS ZIPPERS!!!!!!!! MAKES SENSE ! [smiley=nervous.gif]
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....
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Heh, can you blame me...
/me can't take pictures while riding..
Besides who wants to spend more (especially when they see a bargain) [highlight]on a digital camera when they can buy chrome [/highlight]and "go fast" stuff for the scooter.
/me thinks he has his priorities in order. [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
Oh, and on the
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But the Sony P200 looks just like chrome... I sent ya a picture & everything.
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TWOLANE congrats on the parts. I know you will be happy. Tell Bob G and his wife I said hi when you see him on saturday.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Anyone else got these little buggers and got them installed yet? Someone's OCD had to be so bad that they got them in hand one day and put them in the next.... Someone is holding out and it's pis..... it's just not fair. >:(
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Does the engine case need to be "clearanced" for the cam lobes on the Redshift cams?
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Does the engine case need to be "clearanced" for the cam lobes on the Redshift cams?
You need to check it. 30 thou is the min. On a S&S 585 you need to take out some so I would think you will be very close. You will need a couple of cans of brake clean to clean the cavity one before you start and on when you are finished. Duct tape the openings in the case and use a dremel tool to take out what you need. Be sure you check the top and bottom areas of the case where the lobe passes! It really is very easy. If you have any problems PM me.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Anyone else got these little buggers and got them installed yet?
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TWOLANE Firedood said he will have his done real soon but won't have any pics!!!!! Still waiting on Sam's to come through with the DIGITIAL DEAL of the MONTH!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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TWOLANE Firedood said he will have his done real soon but won't have any pics!!!!! Still waiting on Sam's to come through with the DIGITIAL DEAL of the MONTH!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
But when it's done I want pictures of that little camera stuffed up there inside the engine between the cams. [smiley=nervous.gif]
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You need to check it. 30 thou is the min. On a S&S 585 you need to take out some so I would think you will be very close. You will need a couple of cans of brake cleane to cleane the cavity before you start. Duct tape the openings in the case and use a dremel tool to take out what you need. Be sure you check the top and bottom areas of the case where the lobe passes!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
I have used a dremel / die grinder in the past and I won't make that mistake again. It took a long time to clean all of the metal dust out of the cam chest. I purchased the tool from Zippers that cuts the case, It works much better than the dremel method and the clean up much easier as the particals are much larger than the fine dust that the dremel leaves behind. (Everytime I use it and thank myself again for buying it.)
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But when it's done I want pictures of that little camera stuffed up there inside the engine between the cams.
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DCFIREMAN, TWOLANE..... You seem to have a grasp on FireD00ds camera (or lack thereof) situation. See.... maybe all his talk about bling and cams and tigers (Oh My!!) is just that 'cause we sure don't see any new pics on his posts
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TWOLANE Firedood said he will have his done real soon but won't have any pics!!!!! Still waiting on Sam's to come through with the DIGITIAL DEAL of the MONTH!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
But when it's done I want pictures of that little camera stuffed up there inside the engine between the cams.
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Does the engine case need to be "clearanced" for the cam lobes on the Redshift cams?
Well does anyone know??????????
Surely Zippers would have told us if the case needs to be clearanced!
Cheers
[smiley=drink.gif]
Aussie
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DCFIREMAN, TWOLANE..... You seem to have a grasp on FireD00ds camera (or lack thereof) situation. See.... maybe all his talk about bling and cams and tigers (Oh My!!) is just that 'cause we sure don't see any new pics on his posts
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Well does anyone know??????????
Surely Zippers would have told us if the case needs to be clearanced!
Cheers
[smiley=drink.gif]
Aussie
I just did a cam swap in an 03 with S&S 510G cams (.510 lift) and I clearanced the case because they were right at the .030 clearance area. I have the tool so it was a no brainer to go ahead and do it. These cams are a 575 lift so I would think it will be very close [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
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Does the engine case need to be "clearanced" for the cam lobes on the Redshift cams?
I have used a dremel / die grinder in the past and I won't make that mistake again. It took a long time to clean all of the metal dust out of the cam chest. I purchased the tool from Zippers that cuts the case, It works much better than the dremel method and the clean up much easier as the particals are much larger than the fine dust that the dremel leaves behind. (Everytime I use it and thank myself again for buying it.)
Well does anyone know??????????
Surely Zippers would have told us if the case needs to be clearanced!
Cheers
[smiley=drink.gif]
Aussie
When this was mentioned it made me start to wonder also? You would have thought this would have been mentioned. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that these cams are being advertised as "bolt in cams for the 103ci motors" then the cases wouldn't need to be clearanced. I would also think if they needed to be when I and others ordered them then Zippers would have advised and mentioned/offered the tool that hd-dude talks about for clearancing cases. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
BTW - I've called Zippers, and my sales rep couldn't answer for sure at this time, but will get back to me. So, as soon as I know I'll post. If anybody knows this answer in the meantime, please post.
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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FYI, when the test cams were installed by Harry (Unbalanced) and Jim Brown (dyno testing) the cases were not relieved. The lift on the test cams is the same as that on the production 575's.
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FYI, when the test cams were installed by Harry (Unbalanced) and Jim Brown (dyno testing) the cases were not relieved.
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FYI, when the test cams were installed by Harry (Unbalanced) and Jim Brown (dyno testing) the cases were not relieved.
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I just did a cam swap in an 03 with S&S 510G cams (.510 lift) and I clearanced the case because they were right at the .030 clearance area. I have the tool so it was a no brainer to go ahead and do it. These cams are a 575 lift so I would think it will be very close [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
HD Dude,
You just like using your tool don't you??????
Cheers
Aussie
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I hear you both, but to me a camera isn't high on the priority list. I've got some really expensive 35mm cameras collecting dust now. I'm not really into taking pictures, and definitely can't see taking money from my chrome or go fast fund right now to buy a camera. The reason the one at Sam
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Just got a reply back from Zippers
[highlight]From: Pete.S
Date: 04/13/06 06:53:37
To: 'Mike'
Cc: sentcopy@zippersperformance.com
Subject: RE: Redshift 575 gear drive cams[/highlight]
[highlight]Mike,
The cases may need to have some material removed to clear the cam lobes, but it should not need much.[/highlight]
[highlight]Thank You
Pete Stewart
410-379-0909 ext 127
pete.s@zippersperformance.com
www.zippersperformance.com[/highlight]
Cheers
Aussie
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Just got a reply back from Zippers
[highlight]From: Pete.S
Date: 04/13/06 06:53:37
To: 'Mike'
Cc: sentcopy@zippersperformance.com
Subject: RE: Redshift 575 gear drive cams[/highlight]
[highlight]Mike,
The cases may need to have some material removed to clear the cam lobes, but it should not need much.[/highlight]
[highlight]Thank You
Pete Stewart
410-379-0909 ext 127
pete.s@zippersperformance.com
www.zippersperformance.com[/highlight]
Cheers
Aussie
Aussie;
I think the "may need to " is a CYA on Zippers part. There is a variance in the casting of the cases and that may be the reason for the caution. BLM stated that The test set did not need to be. I would check for clearance regardless. At least .030" is needed. Here is a pic of the one I did last night.
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Relief on the top....
As far as being "bolt in" you will need the tools to remove and re-install the bearings in the case as well as the tool to remove and press the bearings & cams into the cam plate.
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Don I was actually hoping for a better picture of all the parts for those who might want to know what this stuff all is ....
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Another
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575 Zipper Cams
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Another
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Cam Gear Set
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Fueling Oil Pump and Lifters
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Pushrods, Cam Bearing and shim
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D&D Fatcats with Ghost pipe....Didn't want to open yet. ::)
LAST PICTURE ;)
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Not to pee on anyones wheaties tonight, but I just left Zippers. I talked to Bill Lamb and he advised me that the cases needs to be clearenced, and they would like to see a min of 60 thou clearence. S&S reccommends 30 thou so I don't know what to tell you guys except check. I have the clearence tool that does both so it is not a problem for me!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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btw JR those are some nice looking parts!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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.............When this was mentioned it made me start to wonder also? You would have thought this would have been mentioned. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that these cams are being advertised as "bolt in cams for the 103ci motors" then the cases wouldn't need to be clearanced. I would also think if they needed to be when I and others ordered them then Zippers would have advised and mentioned/offered the tool that hd-dude talks about for clearancing cases. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
.....................
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
'd00d,
The "bolt-in" term refers to not having to pull the heads to replace valve springs and check the piston to valve clearance.
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'd00d,
The "bolt-in" term refers to not having to pull the heads to replace valve springs and check the piston to valve clearance.
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Thanks for the info. I'm going to have dealer do the install so the burden will be on them to make sure all tolerances are met. Good to know this information though so when I ask how install went I can ask how much the cases had to be clearanced. This install is above and beyond my mechanically capabilities and my limited tool box. :)
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
Me too Fired00d.
I would like to do it but work has me going from daylight to almost dark! I have a inner fairing that needs swapped out from previous trip at dealer, they popped the paint right between the speedo and tach. [smiley=nervous.gif] I'm also getting a new rear tire and 10,000 mile service. I have never been in a twin cam before and not sure what all to look for. I will feel better knowing it was done right. Now if Twolane wasn't so far away I would love to watch his install so I would know! I'm just glad I got em and can't wait to ride! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Not to pee on anyones wheaties tonight, but I just left Zippers. I talked to Bill Lamb and he advised me that the cases needs to be clearenced, and they would like to see a min of 60 thou clearence. S&S reccommends 30 thou so I don't know what to tell you guys except check. I have the clearence tool that does both so it is not a problem for me!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
OK GUYS to set the record straight. I called Zippers this morning. They pulled my work order for Punkin. It stated that no clearencing had to be done in the cam cavity when they installed the 575 cams for testing. Now they also said it will most likely fit but THE INSTALLER MUST CHECK to be sure. They also reccommend checking clearence on ANY CAM you install. Min clearence is 30 thou. I hope this helps. IT SHOULD FIT BUT YOU MUST STILL CHECK IT!!!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Now if Twolane wasn't so far away I would love to watch his install so I would know! I'm just glad I got em and can't wait to ride! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
With any luck that'll happen tomorrow JR. Then on the dyno Saturday morning. At least that's the plan. Then ride that red beast Saturday afternoon and see what she feels like.
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Glad to see the clearance issue once again returns to the original. Couldn't believe that Harry, or the dyno/wrench on the project could have missed the need to clearance anywhere from the reported 30k to 60k as they are both in contention for the anal compulsive award for precision, perfection and tolerance.
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Unbalanced says his bike is a bullet now! Looking for more impressions?
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Glad to see the clearance issue once again returns to the original.
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I'm in the process of restoring a wrecked flhrsei. While I'm waiting on the Mothership for paint.. I'm staring at this unmolested 103. Hmmmm What to do now?
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Glad to see the clearance issue once again returns to the original.
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, Ladies and Gentlemen,
When those unhappy souls experience the agony of defeat, brought about by yet another lesson from WV's fastest Bagger, tend to inquire about the size of my cams, I tell 'em they are just like my Pistons. "BIG 'UNS!" [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] Later--HUBBARD
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, Ladies and Gentlemen,
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yeah uh 'er hub,
That thar looks like a big truck piston............ :o
Ol Maudie could never swallow that monster. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
Fatboy
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Ol Maudie could never swallow that monster.
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Hub is that you in the pic? you have an uncanny resemblence to Bill Clinton. Has anyone ever told you that? And damn that slug is huge.Oh and Twolane and fatboy I don't think in Mr. Rogers neighborhood one should talk like that :(
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Hub is that you in the pic? [highlight]you have an uncanny resemblence to Bill Clinton. Has anyone ever told you that?[/highlight] And damn that slug is huge.Oh and Twolane and fatboy I don't think in Mr. Rogers neighborhood one should talk like that :(
Yeah, but I didn't hold it against 'em. They were all standin' in line at Hillary's Book Signing, for "It Takes A Village." I knew I had seen you somewhere before! Later--HUBBARD
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As recommended by many here when changing out cams or doing some upgrades to internals, Feuling is hard to beat for oil pumps. Found a place that offers the Feuling Oil Pump & Lifters as a combo for a decent price ($359) and shipping is free on orders over $250. Try: http://www.cyclespot.com/
FEULING OIL PUMP COMBO (49-9100 & 49-9101)
This kit will save you money over purchasing the feuling oil pump and lifters seperately.
Part #: Feuling_Pump_Combo
MSRP: $412.75
Savings: $53.66
Your Price: $359.09
FEULING CAM SUPPORT PLATE, TWIN CAM
Part #: 0920-0006
MSRP: $334.95
Savings: $43.54
Your Price: $291.41
Shipping free on all orders over $250, excluding items that are shipped via freight, tires, APO/FPO, AK, and HI. $0-$99.99 is $6.95, $100.00- $250 Is $5.95, $250+ is FREE. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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I'm in the process of restoring a wrecked flhrsei. While I'm waiting on the Mothership for paint.. I'm staring at this unmolested 103. Hmmmm What to do now?
Your in the right place now! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]Just start reading and this place will help you spend all your money! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] Never ending! [smiley=nervous.gif];D [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=drink.gif]
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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BLM,
Hrmm ... no clearancing necessary for the Cam or for the rockerboxes. Checked em, and kept on moving. Everything was good to go out of the box. Except for that ugly step of using bolt cutters to remove the push rods :).
I await other peoples numbers with the gear drives over the chain drives we have in the pumpkin. Should be most interesting to see how they do.
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I have a inner fairing that needs swapped out from previous trip at dealer, they popped the paint right between the speedo and tach. [smiley=nervous.gif]
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Dozerdawg,
First off Welcome to the site.
I am not sure how much you want to spend on this little project of an unmolested 103, but if I were doing this all over again my suggestions would be the following.
Take that unmolested 103 and punch her out to a 124". I suspect you know a good machinist in your local area and should be able to do this without issue, If not send me a pm I can recommend a really good one to you. The other recommendation I would make to you is to use the Silver Sleeper Heads from Zippers to go with this combination and the 657 cam and a 54mm Throttle body and of course an oversized Air Cleaner. By the time you get it all put back together the martians will have delivered your prize from the mothership and you should be one happy camper. Just remember to put in the lockup Clutch :0.
Which one are you rebuilding color wise?
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Twolane,
Glad to hear your parts have arrived. I talked to Zippers today, and [highlight]I'm just waiting on the Hi-[/highlight][highlight]Flo Air Filter [/highlight](and told them just to hold off on shipping until all parts come in, since they were giving us discount). Since you have a digital camera and I don't (still waiting on Sam's) and can only use the camera phone to take pictures, please post a picture of what I have sitting on the shelf @ Zippers waiting for me. [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
BTW - Seems like we pretty much doing the same thing (as you well know) as far as upgrades to motor [except for fuel management (PC vs RT)]. I will be contacting dealer in next couple of days checking for appointment to have install/dyno done, and ordering Fueling Oil Pump and Lifters. Not sure if this will be able to be done before Myrtle Beach Bike Week, but not going to worry about it. You'll just have to drop some breadcrumbs or do like we do in fire service (I'll give you some balloons w/flour in them, and you can throw them on the road so I'll know which way you turned).
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Hey JR, how the heck did they do that?
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JR, that sounds like something I'd do......over-tighten the bracket and stress the painted inner-fairing. But, glad they're gonna own up to it and make it alright again. Thanks for the info. I wonder how many out there have had the fairing brackets crack and break. A couple of guys I ride with have had to replace the fairing brackets. Some have gotten to the point of reinforcing the brackets due to them being to thin/weak. [smiley=nervous.gif] spyder
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Fired00d,
I got an email from zippers this morning (which is later Thursday aftenoon to you) saying the air filters are in & ready to ship, but won't be till after easter now! (also got more gear drives in which I was also waiting for)
Cheers
[smiley=drink.gif]
Aussie
Sounds good. "Easter Bunny" may be a little late, but he will have some goodies. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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JR, that sounds like something I'd do......over-tighten the bracket and stress the painted inner-fairing.
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JR, that sounds like something I'd do......over-tighten the bracket and stress the painted inner-fairing.
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Hey Donnie boy, I heard a mean sounding potato, potato, potato coming from the Northwest and was wondering if it was your scooter??? ;D ;D ;D Ya done yet??? Or did you get half way and see that pack of Trojan and put it on???? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] ::)
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Hey Donnie boy, I heard a mean sounding potato, potato, potato coming from the Northwest and was wondering if it was your scooter??? ;D ;D ;D Ya done yet??? Or did you get half way and see that pack of Trojan and put it on???? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] ::)
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Unfortunately not a great deal to report yet.
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Numerous people had told me that gear drive cams would be louder/noisier, but couldn't believe it would be that significantly heard over pipes. [smiley=nixweiss.gif] Oh well as long as I can still hear stereo, and pipes, what
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/me is glad wifey doesn't read this forum [smiley=nervous.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
Fired00d.....you are a brave man, indeed!
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/me is glad wifey doesn't read this forum [smiley=nervous.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
SUP WITH THAT???????? You will be fine. I have installed many sets and even have a set in my Dyna. Some do make more noise than others some make no noise at all!!!!! If you are like me you are almost deaf from the air horns and sirens.
Be Safe my fellow Pumkin Rider!!!!!!
I am Still THE DAWG now with only 8 days left!!!!!
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Fired00d.....you are a brave man, indeed!
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SUP WITH THAT???????? You will be fine. I have installed many sets and even have a set in my Dyna. Some do make more noise than others some make no noise at all!!!!! If you are like me you are almost deaf from the air horns and sirens.
Be Safe my fellow Pumkin Rider!!!!!!
I am Still THE DAWG
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Not worried, I had been forewarned. As you stated after 23 years of Q2 sirens, and air horns (first 15 years w/o any hearing protection) I doubt I will be as sensitive to "whine" as others may be. From the benefits I will receive from cams I'll take a little whine if it's noticeable.
Damn, only 8 days left. I think you need to change your nick to "The Lucky Dawg". :D KMA time has to be a blessing. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
HEARING PROTECTION????????? What the hell is that. I have my new hat on order. THE DAWG is being removed from the rear and KMA CLUB is replacing it.It will be a good feeling. Two more working days then the party is on!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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HEARING PROTECTION????????? What the hell is that. I have my new hat on order. THE DAWG is being removed from the rear and KMA CLUB is replacing it.It will be a good feeling. Two more working days then the party is on!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
You mean they don't have "David Clark" headsets or equivalent on your apparatus?
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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Congratulations Mike. That's a heluva long time in service to the District. Do you know for sure what's next to occupy the newly found spare time?
Also, just an FYI, at least on this set the cam noise isn't a "bad" noise. It was just more than I'd anticipated. It's actually that solid-lifter-in-a-motor-with-a-blower kind of "sing" that I actually quite like. Just took a bit to get used to. Wouldn't be at all surprised either if the tiniest bit of wearing in doesn't happen over time and they settle in a bit too.
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now with only 8 days left!!!!!
Whats this mean?
retiring? [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
KMA Club ... Kiss my arse? Come on, say it ain't so. [smiley=drink.gif]
QB2's and top mounted air horns, would did you say?
David Clark's!
The "experts" in my department said they won't work! and of course those experts don't ride the rigs.
No doubt these guys are using headsets
http://audio.firedispatch.com/RCF012860015DSL.wmv
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.....QB2's and top mounted air horns, would did you say?
David Clark's!
The "experts" in my department said they won't work! and of course those experts don't ride the rigs.
Wow, you really got it bad, makes my rinky dink department look outstanding. We haven't had top mounted air horns in over 10 years. I can't believe that "experts" in your department will not let you get headsets (can't be a money issue because there are grants out there for these, will not cost the municipality anything). Also there is a benefit (but don't let any of the "white" shirts at my department know this) you can hook up your Ipod to them, and listen to tunes as you cruise around. Speaking of this, it was all nice, and good until one day someone had downloaded "Fire" by Ohio Players. Guess what we were doing a couple of hours after hearing that song????
/me was "dropping cotton". [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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Congratulations Mike.
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Congratulations Mike.
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2Lane,
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Yeah, my gear drives had a little bit of a gear whine at first, not much, but just a bit. I really kind of liked it. I have about 1000 miles on them and either they have quieted down a lot or I'm just used to them.
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I would think that if the gear drive cams gave a little whine that would be cool.
After all we do this stuff for the performance and shouldn't "performance" be heard too [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
Nothing sounds as cool as the whine from a hidden blower on a street car.
Or how about the whine from a big primary belt drive?
When the time comes that I have the extra $$$ for the cams and oil pump I kinda hope there is a little whine to let everyone around know that the engine is ready to rock [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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We haven't had top mounted air horns in over 10 years. I can't believe that "experts" in your department will not let you get headsets (can't be a money issue because there are grants out there for these, will not cost the municipality anything). Also there is a benefit (but don't let any of the "white" shirts at my department know this) you can hook up your Ipod to them, and listen to tunes as you cruise around. Speaking of this, it was all nice, and good until one day someone had
downloaded "Fire" by Ohio Players. Guess what we were doing a couple of hours after hearing that song????
/me was "dropping cotton". [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
All of our new rigs in the last 5 or so years have had bumper mounted trumpets, but my first ten years..... we had those CF Macks with the 30" horns on top, the horns that used so much air the valve would freeze!
"Fire" by Ohio Players.
DooD come on now, you guys don't really ......... next thing Ya know you'll be telling us you use "We Are Family" for a theme song
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That's something that I've already read in several places and had reported from people here.
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Anyone install the gear drive cams yet?And what do you think? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
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Anyone install the gear drive cams yet?And what do you think? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Just finished the install about an hour ago. Zippers 575, Feuling Oil Pump, Feuling Lifters, Zippers chrome moly pushrods, Zippers Bypass Shim etc. Totally different bike as it actually has some low end torque, rolls on from 2000 and holds it all the way across the power band. I won't have time to put the bike on the dyno until Friday, but am anxious to fine tune it to the cam. BTW, if your changing cams the Feuling Oil Pump is a must. No more 0 pressure at a hot idle and about 1/3 more pressure on the gauge at all rpm's. Thanks to Zippers for a great cam and the R&D they put into the effort.
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Just finished the install about an hour ago.
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Brian,
BTW how was your lobe clearance?
Cheers
[smiley=drink.gif]
Aussie
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Just finished the install about an hour ago.
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Rut-Roh!
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Anyone install the gear drive cams yet?And what do you think? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Got mine installed last Friday and spun on the dyno yesterday.
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Thanks Don! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] I will be bringing my scooter in this week. I am getting it dyno before and after. Same set up as you except I will be using Thundermax and D&D Fatcats. How long did it take for your install and was clearance OK or did you have to cut the case?
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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2lane;
Could you post your sheet for us to see?
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Brian,
BTW how was your lobe clearance?
Cheers
[smiley=drink.gif]
Aussie
Mike.....Clearance was fine with .00035...BUT...measure very closely when you install as there is as much as .00060 variance in the HD cases.
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Rut-Roh!
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Should help with Otis also as I may be able to stay in the same county with his stock 95. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
OH YEA here we go again!!!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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2lane;
Could you post your sheet for us to see?
Jim,
The sheet is on the desk at my shop rather than here. Won't get a chance to get it in hand again for a couple days. Will do post it then.
BLM,
Before you get it dialed in have you noticed any of the spitting back through the exhuast when shifting under a moderate to load that I had before tuning? Or is it still pretty smooth. After the increase in torque in the driving range and it's concomitant loss of that nasty dip after 2k I think that's my favorite thing about this. After it's been dialed it's just way smooth. I thought it was pretty good before. But now the idle is better and the power range is smooth and consistent.
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Hey Don,
Did you do the work yourself or have it done?
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Jim,
The sheet is on the desk at my shop rather than here.
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Look what the UPS man dropped off at my house today!!!!
Thanks Tony. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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Twolane,
Ok, need some help here. What is that bag of bolts above the cam on the right for??? It didn't have a tag on it, as all the other parts did.
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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Twolane,
Ok, need some help here. What is that bag of bolts above the cam on the right for??? It didn't have a tag on it, as all the other parts did.
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
Bolts for your gear drive!!!!!! Yes you do need them!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Look what the UPS man dropped off at my house today!!!!
Thanks Tony. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
Looking Good Fired00d! [smiley=pumpkin.gif] [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] When you going to get them in??? Are you doing it yourself?
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Bolts for your gear drive!!!!!! Yes you do need them!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Thanks bro!! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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Looking Good Fired00d! [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
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Oh no!!! I'm not quite ready for that yet. [smiley=nervous.gif] I've got Fueling Oil Pump, and Fueling Lifters at dealer waiting on these parts, and have an appointment on Monday to have all them installed and it dyno'd. [highlight]I'll get it back middle of next week[/highlight].
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
Better get a backrest on that seat before you twist that throttle real hard.... :o
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Better get a backrest on that seat before you twist that throttle real hard.... :o
I think I'll just position myself a little closer to the tank, from what I can remember in my dirt bike days, that's the best place to be when the front wheel comes off the ground. ;)
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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DOOD you are like a KID AT CHRISTMAS!!!!!!! I know you will be happy. I know this was a long wait but I KNOW it was worth it. Keep us posted.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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I would love to know what the full damage price, of the full project from start to finish.Parts, dyno time and install? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
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Twolane,
Ok, need some help here. What is that bag of bolts above the cam on the right for???
Them's just spares D00d.
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I would love to know what the full damage price, of the full project from start to finish.Parts, dyno time and install? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Nut, from Zippers my bill for the cams, gear drive, bearings, oil pressure relief valve, and their "Pro-Taper" pushrods came to $893.53. From another vendor (Wally's) the Feuling pump and Feuling lifters was another approximately $375.00. That was all of the parts and shipping tally on mine.
I honestly don't know if the stock push rod tubes will accept the adjustable push rods or not as I was swapping mine for those grooved billet pieces anyway. I scored them, the matching billet lifter blocks, and the billet grooved rocker box covers all together on an eBay auction for $185.00 awhile back and had just been waiting for the cam job to install them too.
That'll account for a minimum parts total of approximately $1275.00 plus whatever might be the rate for your local dyno guy. If you can get in and out of the dyno for $250.00 that would mean spending in the ballpark of $1500-$1600 to make the engine much more reliable, pull harder, and be more fun to ride. I can't say that it's one of those "bargain at any price" kind of jobs.
Quite frankly if someone were intending to rack up but a few miles or not keep their bike for terribly long it would be tough to justify. That person could definitely argue they'd be better off getting tensioners changed under warranty if they ever got 20k miles on the bike and just not worry about. If, on the other hand, one intended to cover a few miles, a lot of them were on the road away from home, and he liked the bike well enough to be planning on riding it for awhile the expense can be amortized out over a greater riding life and the reliability and performance gains become far more worthwhile.
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[highlight]I honestly don't know if the stock push rod tubes will accept the adjustable push rods [/highlight]
quote]
I was advised by Zippers that they do fit
Cheers
Aussie
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[highlight]I honestly don't know if the stock push rod tubes will accept the adjustable push rods [/highlight]
quote]
I was advised by Zippers that they do fit
Cheers
Aussie
Original tubes fit fine with the Zippers pushrods. Not even a need for a hammer.
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Not even a need for a hammer.
That does take a fair amount of fun out of the installation process [smiley=nixweiss.gif] .
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Original tubes fit fine with the Zippers pushrods.
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Thank You Twolane for the info on pricing,I think I will do the same package but I will go with the Thunder max.Waiting on Zippers to call me when its in stock. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
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Thank You Twolane for the info on pricing,I think I will do the same package but I will go with the Thunder max.Waiting on Zippers to call me when its in stock. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Nut, that ThunderMax is a very intriguing product. Have heard good things in use too. I'd very likely have tried it as well if I had a tuner available. I realize it's pre-canned maps for these configurations are going to be very close. But no two bikes are the same. Especially when I wasn't making an exhaust change to something they'd seen before. So I ended up deciding to tune the bike as it sat rather than going the other way. If I had o2 bungs in the pipes or were energetic enough to pull the pipes just to weld a pair on I'd think very strongly about the ThunderMax in closed loop though. That's interesting as well. Good luck and hope you are pleased with the outcome [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] .
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Don what exhaust are you running? It won't be long till the updated software is available. Then you can run a closed loop system. BTW where is that dyno sheet????? Do I have to send FIREDOOD out there to take pics of it and come back here and post it?
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Don what exhaust are you running? It won't be long till the updated software is available. Then you can run a closed loop system. BTW where is that dyno sheet????? Do I have to send FIREDOOD out there to take pics of it and come back here and post it?
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Dawg, the red bike has true duals and White Brothers E Series mufflers. No dyno sheet posted yet as I haven't had a chance to get back by the desk where I left it. Too damned busy since I took the time off to play with the bike and get the parts installed [smiley=nixweiss.gif] .
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Boy I sure had a hard time making that exit ramp taking my scooter to the dealer today. It was a beautiful day in Memphis town today, 78 degrees and sunshine! 8-) My Lil Banana wanted to keep on going ( I believe she had Maggie Valley in her sites). But we need to get some work done. That inner fairing has been in for months but I just didn't want to give up the time to have it put on, too busy riding! I'm also getting a 10,000 mile service, going with redline oil and staying with SE oil in engine. A new rear skin will be installed while she is getting serviced.
But the real reason is for the Zipper 575 cams, gear set, push rods, bypass shim, fueling oil pump, fueling lifters, Mapped Thundermax ECM, Zippers high flow air cleaner, and D&D Fatcats with ghost pipe! Scooter will be dyno tuned before cams and after. I'm so excited I don't know if I will sleep much tonight. I am hoping the thundermax comes in this week. Tony said it should be here in a couple weeks, a couple weeks ago. Was hoping it would rain all week so I wouldn't feel so bad... but that wouldn't be nice for those who have their scooters and are enjoying their face in the wind. Garage looks empty, even weird looking! Ya'll have a blessed evening!
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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JR, you'll be a 'piece-of-work' before you get your scooter back. Sounds like it's gonna be great! :) har! spyder
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Thanks Syder! Hey are you going to Maggie Valley? I just reserved my room. [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=jalapeno.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=drink.gif]
When I was at dealer today there were 2 SE Ultra's, a watermelon and a crimson. I placed some cards from this website on their windshields. Got a call from one before I left, He said he has been a member here since he got his Ultra. His name is ultrafxr, super nice guy. I also saw a pumpkin there but ran out of cards in my billfold! [smiley=nixweiss.gif] Oh well, what a lovely day in the neighborhood! ;D See Ya, God Bless!
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Thanks [highlight]Syder[/highlight]! Hey are you going to Maggie Valley?
Not sure about "Syder," but "Spyder"'s on the list (http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1133449040/9#9)
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Not sure about "Syder," but "Spyder"'s on the list (http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1133449040/9#9)
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JR what dealer is doing the install????? You are going to be like a kid in a candy store when you get her back. Also what did the Chrimson/Slate SEUG look like in person and in the daylight??
I have one on order but have never seen one in person as of yet.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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TWOLANE where is that dyno sheet???????
[smiley=worthless.gif]
I have never had to use that before. I guess it was because I had a problem posting pictures!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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JR what dealer is doing the install????? You are going to be like a kid in a candy store when you get her back. Also what did the Chrimson/Slate SEUG look like in person and in the daylight??
I have one on order but have never seen one in person as of yet.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
DAWG,
My dealer doing the install is Bumpus H-D of Memphis. These guys have treated me very well so I continue to use them here even though they opened a new one 3 miles from my house here in Collierville last year. The crimson and slate looks awesome! It was a sunny day which really brings out the color of any paint. If I was to purchase one this was the color of my choice. The watermelon looks a lot better in person than the pics. Congrats on your SEUC! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] When you suppose to get it?
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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JR while on the road I had to stop at Bumpuss. They treated me like a king. I would go back there any time. Got the bike in and out of the service quick!!!!!! Great DEALERSHIP and that is getting hard to say these days.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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JR while on the road I had to stop at Bumpuss. They treated me like a king. I would go back there any time. Got the bike in and out of the service quick!!!!!! [highlight]Great DEALERSHIP[/highlight] and that is getting hard to say these days.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Dawg ... didja take a picture??? Those places are indeed rare!!
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DC I have seen two black and crimson ones in the last week,they looked Great!!! [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
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Hey DAWG, when you expect to see your crimson/slate to arrive?
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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DAWG,
I will pass it on to the service dept at Bumpus. Very seldom do we acknowledge when things go good because we expect that. Usually only here about when we screw up!
Sooooo, when you expecting that crimson/slate to arrive???? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Well my [smiley=pumpkin.gif] is now at dealer for upgrades. Why does it feel like I just left my kid at the hospital? Shouldn't I have stayed with her and made my bed beside her? She's never been away from home w/o me. All the previous services have been done while I waited. Wonder if she misses me?
/me is having [smiley=pumpkin.gif] withdrawals does anybody know anything he can take? [smiley=confused5.gif]
BTW can someone answer why its always a really pretty day when you have to drop it off, and you would rather be out riding. That sucked. :(
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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Because when she comes back she'll be new and improved ready to please her daddy [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
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Because when she comes back she'll be new and improved ready to please her daddy [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
Since you put it that way I guess I'll be ok, but I still miss her. :'(
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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Since you put it that way I guess I'll be ok, but I still miss her. :'(
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
Hey Dood;
Print out some of those pretty pics you took with the new camera and sleep with them under your pillow. Also carry couple with you at all times while she's away. That'll help a bit.. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
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DAWG,
I will pass it on to the service dept at Bumpus. Very seldom do we acknowledge when things go good because we expect that. Usually only here about when we screw up!
Sooooo, when you expecting that crimson/slate to arrive???? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
MAY 12TH is the ship date arrive at the dealership on the 15th. It only has to make about a 1 hour trip to the dealership from the factory!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Hey Dood;
Print out some of those pretty pics you took with the new camera and sleep with them under your pillow.
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/me is having [smiley=pumpkin.gif] withdrawals does anybody know anything he can take? [smiley=confused5.gif]
'd00d, eat two of these: (http://www.verybestbaking.com/graphics/products/libbys/img_pure.gif)(http://www.verybestbaking.com/graphics/products/libbys/img_pure.gif) and stay close to the site until she comes home again.
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BTW can someone answer why its always a really pretty day when you have to drop it off, and you would rather be out riding. That sucked. :( [smiley=pumpkin.gif]Ride Safe,Fired00dsmiley=fireman.gif]
d00d, out here the same phenomenon happens when you wash the bike or your car, you can pretty much guarantee rain within 24 hours no matter how nice it is the day you wash them.
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TWOLANE where is that dyno sheet???????
[smiley=worthless.gif]
Sorry for the delay.
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While things were apart for the cam installation also changed the lifter blocks, pushrod tubes and rocker boxes. Got all three together awhile back on a really good eBay score. So here's what the rest of the change looks like.
From the right side:
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And from the left:
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Thanks Don! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
That is exactly the results I was looking for. I can't wait to get my scoot back and feel the difference. I don't care about the upper end numbers as my riding style won't effect me. I love torque and it appears that's what I'm getting! I'm anxious to see since I'm changing exhaust and ecm how much more seat of the pants feel will differ. Maybe I ought to bring me a change of pants when I take my first ride!!! ;D ;D ;D Just in case! [smiley=nervous.gif]
John [smiley=banana.gif]
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Thanks Don! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
That is exactly the results I was looking for. I can't wait to get my scoot back and feel the difference. I don't care about the upper end numbers as my riding style won't effect me. I love torque and it appears that's what I'm getting! I'm anxious to see since I'm changing exhaust and ecm how much more seat of the pants feel will differ. Maybe I ought to bring me a change of pants when I take my first ride!!! ;D ;D ;D Just in case! [smiley=nervous.gif]
John [smiley=banana.gif]
It sounds like our goals were the same JR. If you're looking for nicely increased driveability with a bigger smile and solid consistent PULL when you twist the throttle this is proving to be a really nice setup. Didn't mention first time through that it not only looks smooth on the dyno sheet, it feels that way too. Really is very consistent. Idle is smoother too. But the consistency of torque band's climb is what really feels sweet.
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Hey 2Lane, those rocker boxes, pushrod tubes and lifter blocks are a great addition! Lookin' good, dude! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] har! spyder
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Hey 2Lane, those rocker boxes, pushrod tubes and lifter blocks are a great addition!
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Cams were installed last week and dyno tune completed last Friday by Jim Brown, Braggin' Rights Dyno, who did a portion of the testing on these cams with Zippers.
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Cams were installed last week and dyno tune completed last Friday by Jim Brown, Braggin' Rights Dyno, who did a portion of the testing on these cams with Zippers.
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In this installation, the 575's DOUBLED the TQ at 2500 . . .
BLM, I think that might be the HP graph you're comparing to. The previous dyno run (in red) doesn't appear to start until 3,300 rpms where it shows about a 10 ft./lb. gain. Nevertheless, looks like the ol' pumpkin's laying down some stout numbers. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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BLM, I think that might be the HP graph you're comparing to.
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While things were apart for the cam installation also changed the lifter blocks, pushrod tubes and rocker boxes.
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'd00d, eat two of these.....and stay close to the site until she comes home again.
Hmmm, how about I stay close to site, two cans of pumpkin pie filling sounds like it could be an episode in colon cleansing. ;D
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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The addition of the Feuling oil pump is a must if you plan on keeping one of these 103's for the long terms.
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Cams were installed last week and dyno tune completed last Friday by Jim Brown, Braggin' Rights Dyno, who did a portion of the testing on these cams with Zippers........this installation, the 575's give the seat of the pants feeling of DOUBLE the TQ at 2500 and put the strongest pull right in the middle of the driveability range.
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I'd love to see you hanging that [smiley=pumpkin.gif] up [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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It's nice to see that even with 2-2's the torque increase is still there towards the low end of the rpm scale. My Fatboy is getting the install right now and I did a baseline run before the install and plan on doing one after. Will post the results later in the week.
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While things were apart for the cam installation also changed the lifter blocks, pushrod tubes and rocker boxes.
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Don,
Those additions look nice. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] However those pictures pointed something out to me, or should I saw sparked my "OCD/SEO". I had forgotten about the chrome fuel line, and was wondering if this is the part - Braided Stainless Steel EFI Fuel Line (http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_product.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524448764950&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374309043342&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374309043342&bmUID=1145896937098&bmLocale=en_US). If I remember correctly from a post somewhere this part is for Dyna's, but will work on our bikes. Looking at your picture and what MoCo website shows for the part above, looks like you have a combination of that line, and this cover Fuel Tank Fitting Cover (http:// http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_product.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524448764298&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302287109&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302287109&bmUID=1145897570063&bmLocale=en_US&CART_ITEM%3C%3Egrg_ast_id=2534374302287109&CART_ITEM%3C%3Egrg_folder_id=2534374302287109&CART_ITEM%3C%3Egrg_grh_id=8727923308248447&CART_ITEM%3C%3Egrg_id=2466112&CART_ITEM%3C%3Egrg_sku_id=1689949378920891&CART_ITEM%3C%3EqtyDesired=1&CART_ITEM%3C%3EqtyReceived=0&CART_ITEM%3C%3Estatus_cd=A&CART_POSITION=7&CART_LIST=GIFT_REGISTRY_LINE_ARRAY&QTY_UPDATE_RETURN_PAGE=%2Fwishlist%2Fwl_listing.jsp) I tried searching but couldn't come up with this information. If this is not the right parts or combination parts, can you please advise. Thanks.
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
Ok, I found the post Gas line revision (http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1140784625/4#4) it was in "Twin Cam" section and I searched only in the "FLHTCSE/2" section that pertained to that fuel line. I do have the right part for the line. It still looks like the fitting that connects to the tank is different on yours, then in picture of that part in online MoCo parts catalog. Are you using the additional "Fuel Tank Fitting Cover" also?
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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'd00d, eat two of these: (http://www.verybestbaking.com/graphics/products/libbys/img_pure.gif)(http://www.verybestbaking.com/graphics/products/libbys/img_pure.gif) and stay close to the site until she comes home again.
Kinda like Popeye and spinach, huh?? [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
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Hey 2Lane, you said you're running about 8 degrees cooler on the rear jug temp. than before........just to get a idea of the significance of that, wonder how many degrees our oil coolers lower the temp. than if we were without them? Any idea? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] spyder
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Ok, I found the post Gas line revision (http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1140784625/4#4) it was in "Twin Cam" section and I searched only in the "FLHTCSE/2" section that pertained to that fuel line. I do have the right part for the line. It still looks like the fitting that connects to the tank is different on yours, then in picture of that part in online MoCo parts catalog. Are you using the additional "Fuel Tank Fitting Cover" also?
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
d00d, not to be answering for Twolane but I believe he has the same one I got. It's p/n 62809-06. Here is a pic off the MOCO site.
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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d00d, not to be answering for Twolane but I believe he has the same one I got. It's p/n 62809-06. Here is a pic off the MOCO site.
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d00d,
I just have the chrome fitting cover. Had it installed when I got the bike new along some other goodies. I wasn't aware of the fuel line until later. But it may on sooner than later! ;D
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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I've been told that I have the knack for feeding ones "OCD/SEO". [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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d00d, not to be answering for Twolane but I believe he has the same one I got. It's p/n 62809-06. Here is a pic off the MOCO site.
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Don,
I really like the look, I really didn't notice the rocker boxes before. :o I guess now that I calmed down a bit since my bike went to the dealer I was able to notice. Looking good bro! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
Thanks JR. As a combination I really quite like the rocker boxes and lifter blocks. The lifter blocks look a lot less bulky than the lofter block covers that were there previously too. It was all apart anyway so if those parts were going to get hung that was the time to do it.
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Hey 2Lane, you said you're running about 8 degrees cooler on the rear jug temp. than before........just to get a idea of the significance of that, wonder how many degrees our oil coolers lower the temp. than if we were without them?
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That's it alright guys.
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That's it alright guys.
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I saw that -06 and knew it was a later version, wonder if they made any modifications to make it easier to fit.
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So you are running that cover over the Braided Stainless Steel EFI Fuel Line (http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_product.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524448764950&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374309043342&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374309043342&bmUID=1145896937098&bmLocale=en_US) then?
That's it exactly Gary. Chrome fitting over the braided line. Makes for a good looking combination too. Heluva better than the ugly plastic looking stock line.
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My guess would be that whittled away at the inside a bit to make it fit that batch of fuel lines with the oversized connection where the fitting met the line.
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That's it exactly Gary.
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I wonder how many Stainless Steel Braided lines were ordered when they read this?? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] I know of atleast 1! ;D
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Man, I need to quit looking at them rocker boxes and lifter blocks, I'm spending enough money already! I love the lines of the horn cover, finns, and rocker boxes......Looks to me like you need to adjust the horn cover by rotating it clockwise 1 fin! ;D [smiley=nervous.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Man, I need to quit looking at them rocker boxes and lifter blocks, I'm spending enough money already! I love the lines of the horn cover, finns, and rocker boxes......Looks to me like you need to adjust the horn cover by rotating it clockwise 1 fin! ;D [smiley=nervous.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
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[smiley=ROFLOL.gif] [smiley=vrolijk27.gif] [smiley=dizzy2.gif] [smiley=sleepy.gif] [smiley=sleeping.gif] [smiley=sleep.gif] ;D [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
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2lane,
Your Dyno looks pretty good. Did the tuner map each cylinder? I rescheduled mine for the week of May 8th. They wanted me to leave it for four days. I want to watch the process. Looking at your numbers, makes me think that mine are pretty good, although my gas mileage is not so good. Have you had time to check that on your mileage per gallon?
CD
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Ok, I have some news (good and bad) to share.
First the "Good News"....
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That's it exactly Gary.
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Firedood never coming oout firing numbers when yu can show us the [smiley=worthless.gif]
Glad to heart its runnung good.\
\
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Firedood never coming oout firing numbers when yu can show us the [smiley=worthless.gif]
Glad to heart its runnung good.\
\
Yo Bro,
Glad to hear you on the road to a full recovery. Even in your pain and discomfort I see you still got jokes. ;) Hang in there, do what the Dr's and Nurses say, and if you and wifey need anything don't hesitate to ask. You've got my number use it, and I'll get the word out. Take care.
Gary
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When you going to bring her home d00d? I'm so happy to hear your results. [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] Not as happy as I was to see Harrys post! [smiley=banana.gif] Glad to see your able check in to this site, we miss ya, love ya, and were praying for ya buddy! God Bless you and your family!
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Waiting to hear what the MoCo is going to do w/warranty items/issues? [smiley=confused5.gif] Mechanically it's ready to go, and at the latest I will have it back this weekend, and hopefully the weather will cooperate and I can get in the wind. I'm going to be like a kid at Christmas all over again.
What's the progress on yours, have you heard anything from dealer?
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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Nope, was hoping for this weekend but not sure. I will call in morning to see if they dyno'd it yet. Getting a before and after to compare. Also having inner fairing swapped out and ofcourse still no ecm! That's OK I have no control over that.:'( My day will come. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Nope, was hoping for this weekend but not sure. I will call in morning to see if they dyno'd it yet. Getting a before and after to compare. Also having inner fairing swapped out and ofcourse still no ecm! That's OK I have no control over that.:'(
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Firedood never coming oout firing numbers when yu can show us the [smiley=worthless.gif]
Glad to heart its runnung good.\
\
Hey, Harry ain't squished no more ! [smiley=drink.gif] [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=jalapeno.gif] [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] [smiley=drink.gif] !
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/me is getting a little excited. [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
uh oh, look out Mrs. D00d ! [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
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Hang in there, yes it will, and it will be worth the wait. Even though I haven't ridden mines, but from what BLM777, and Twolane say that have ridden there's and my numbers seem to match closely to what they have I can't wait. Woooo Hooooo!!!!!
/me is getting a little excited. [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
d00d,
I wanna know one thing, do you still have your backrest? Better bring it for safety! [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] ;D [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=pumpkin.gif] [smiley=jalapeno.gif] [smiley=cherry.gif]
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uh oh, look out Mrs. D00d ! [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
I love her to the end of the world, but right now I'd like to ride my [smiley=pumpkin.gif].
/me hopes his CVOHarley Bro's and Sis' can keep this on the down low.
Oh well if you can't I'll deny it to the end of earth. :D
d00d,
I wanna know one thing, do you still have your backrest? Better bring it for safety! [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] ;D [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=pumpkin.gif] [smiley=jalapeno.gif] [smiley=cherry.gif]
I do, but I'll have to get used to using it. To me it felt like it made me sit to far forward and was uncomfortable in the legs. :(
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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[highlight]Got bike back this afternoon, and only words that can explain seat of the pants feeling are "Wow, Awesome, Hold on".[/highlight] When you crack the throttle you better be in a straight line or know you can handle a curve well. The bike now wants to "launch" like a rocket when you twist the throttle. As was stated and most of us knew the gear drive cams are noisier and if this is consistent w/most gear drive cams I understand why the MoCo doesn't do this from the factory (the would never be able to pass the EPA). I will be posting copy of dyno sheet as soon as I can get it scanned (don't have scanner at home) which could be at the earliest first of next week when I go back to work. Until then I will not talk numbers for fear of getting this.....
[smiley=worthless.gif] [smiley=worthless.gif]
Overall I'm satisfied with outcome of upgrades. I never wanted to be the fastest, nor do I have the income to become that. My main reason for upgrading cams was fear of cam chain tensioners, and if changing cams would help TQ/HP that was a bonus. I have been researching cams all through the winter waiting on something such as Zippers has produced. I had found cam upgrades that would require headwork, some would require throttle body upgrades, etc. What I like most about the Zippers cams is they are "bolt in", other then some case clearancing (in some case's, BTW mines didn't require it, they were in spec w/o needing it). There may be things that come later (or even out now) that are better, but for me I think my money was well spent, and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
Zipper's job well done. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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DOOD I am so happy to hear about your ride. I just wish I had mine back. I did get to see Punkin today!!!!! I just got my June issue of V twin magazine and there she was. They did an article about Zippers and Bobby is riding her on the Land/Sea Dyno. I hope to have her back by the first week of June. I know it will be worth it for a lot of people (including me)
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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[highlight]the gear drive cams are noisier
D00d, if the red bike is anything to go by it will qet quieter in relatively short order. Right after install mine were LOUD compared to what it was before. In 50 miles they were only LOud. In a few hundred it's just a nice little buzz now. You know it's there. Sounds like a solid lifter motor. But not bad at all. Certainly nothing approaching a fatiguing noise impacting on the rider; not even close.
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D00d, if the red bike is anything to go by it will qet quieter in relatively short order.
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I guess that means the pistons have finally beat the valves into submission. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
Dammit 103, it's called "break" in for reason ! >:(
[smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=jalapeno.gif] [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
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This thread has been like a soap opera.. Glad I had the time to read the whole frickin' thing. Now, if'n I only had a local wrench I could reeeally trust. . . mmmm nah, my stock [smiley=pumpkin.gif] is just fine ;)
Garz
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stock... is just fine
Heresy!
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Ok, I have some news (good and bad) to share.
First the "Good News"....
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After upgrades dyno only
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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Another program, showing before and after w/o A/F ratio
P.S. Harry (Unbalanced) here you go Bro ;), thanks for your part in R&D/Testing to bring these cams to us. Rest up, and get well soon.
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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This thread has been like a soap opera.. Glad I had the time to read the whole frickin' thing. Now, [highlight]if'n I only had a local wrench I could reeeally trust[/highlight]. . . mmmm nah, my stock
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Aren't ya fairly close to BLM777?
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Don't even go there 103......No more wrenching for me until I get tired of riding the "new" setup.....
I hope we never get tired of new set-up, I can't imagine having more fun then this. Besides HP/TQ gains only get more expensive as you go. [smiley=nervous.gif]
BTW - I tried riding with rider backrest today, but it was really uncomfortable. With my bad hip I need to sit back as far in the seat possible and stretch my legs out to be comfortable.
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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Aren't ya fairly close to BLM777?
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Yeah, and He looks back at Him in the mirror every morning! [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]Later--HUBBARD
Hub... you're the best ... cruel, but I like yer style ;D ;D ;)
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, Thanks there, SEULTRA,
I looked at Ol' Fired00d's numbers, there. Pretty good! He should be able to reach out there and wave Bye-Bye, to his Buddies on 'nem Stock Strokers! [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] Do it, d00d! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] Ain't nuthin' like it! Trust me! ;) Later--HUBBARD
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Yeah, 'er 'uh, Thanks there, SEULTRA,
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The dyno report is interesting D00d. They're always just comparative toys at best anyway, but it was interesting to see that on both BLM's bike and my red bike that damn dip we all seem to have after 2k was gone. Same new cams on your and you've still got it some though.
Best part is that even with the dip you've got much more torque in early and in the driving range. That's what makes these things feel so good and makes them so much fun. Congrats again on getting her done. I've got pretty good rains here all weekend long so you need to ride enough for both of us.
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The dyno report is interesting D00d.
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[smiley=nixweiss.gif] Either way as you well know we are having fun now. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
Yes Brother D00d and I say hallelujah and Amen as we stand side by side before the Altar of Torque Almighty. ;D
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Installed today:Cams, Gear drives, Zippers shim, Zippers tapered push rods, Feuling super pump & lifters, Doherty Myst Free breather. All went well & no oil leaks, only done a couple of miles on road test but feels OK. seems to run pretty much the same as before (but as I only went a couple of miles couldn't really tell). Gear drive seems fairly quiet. Will book in for Dyno tune, a custom map should smooth it out & bring out the full potential of the new cams.
Cheers
Aussie
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Installed today:Cams, Gear drives, Zippers shim, Zippers tapered push rods, Feuling super pump & lifters, Doherty Myst Free breather. All went well & no oil leaks, only done a couple of miles on road test but feels OK. seems to run pretty much the same as before (but as I only went a couple of miles couldn't really tell). Gear drive seems fairly quiet. Will book in for Dyno tune, a custom map should smooth it out & bring out the full potential of the new cams.
Cheers
Aussie
Congrats on getting her done. Hope you enjoy it's final tuning feel as much as I have.
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Forgot to add, lobe to case clearance was fine, it appears it had been done in the factory!
Cheers
Aussie
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All went well & no oil leaks, only done a couple of miles on road test but feels OK. seems to run pretty much the same as before [/img]
Interesting... I just had 575's installed on my Fatboy also and can honestly say that mine is not that different either. [smiley=confused5.gif] My AFR before I went in for the cams change was all in the 12-13 range which is a little rich. I feel a little better response in the 2-3500 rpm band, but lost that hard up hill torque pull I had with the 253 cam. I also have picked up a hitch or stumble between 1000-2200 rpm's more prominent in lower gears and when decelerating in gear up to a stop does the same. Kinda of made it a little unpleasing when taking corners and having to deal with the bike surging... Hoping that can be worked out on the dyno, but my gut tells me it is the early intake timing close. I know my pipes are'nt the best for making power (big radius) so maybe I am going to have to suck it up and buy a 2-1 :-/ As far as noise, there is a definite difference, sounds like a sewing machine now. Luckily my pipes are fairly loud and downed out the sound. I'm getting it back on the dyno later this week when the rain leaves and will post before and after runs. Hopefully I made the right decision.
Interesting... I just had 575's installed on my Fatboy also and can honestly say that mine is not that different either. [smiley=confused5.gif] My AFR before I went in for the cams change was all in the 12-13 range which is a little rich. I feel a little better response in the 2-3500 rpm band, but lost that hard up hill torque pull I had with the 253 cam. I also have picked up a hitch or stumble between 1000-2200 rpm's more prominent in lower gears and when decelerating in gear up to a stop does the same. Kinda of made it a little unpleasing when taking corners and having to deal with the bike surging... Hoping that can be worked out on the dyno, but my gut tells me it is the early intake timing close. I know my pipes are'nt the best for making power (big radius) so maybe I am going to have to suck it up and buy a 2-1 :-/ I'm getting it back on the dyno later this week when the rain leaves and will post before and after runs.
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Heresy... yeah. Actually, I'm still getting used to the pumpkin after my almost stock Evo. So it feels wonderful... so far.
Sooner or later. . . [smiley=devil.gif] and $ will win.
I envy y'all that can wrench like that. I really do! I break things. :-/
Garz
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Yep, JB Weld: good stuff. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
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Well finally got the Thundermax ecm in today and was able to get it to my dealer before they closed! Also got to see my D&D Fatcats and they look Awesome! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] Wish I could have heard them but that's OK, hopefully tomorrow I will bring my baby home. ;) He plans on putting on the dyno some time in the morning. It's suppose to rain here tomorrow so I will have to play it by ear. He said the chain tensioners looked good, he had them boxed up and I said I will look at it later. Can't wait to see the dyno results! See Ya!
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Well finally got the Thundermax ecm in today and was able to get it to my dealer before they closed! Also got to see my D&D Fatcats and they look Awesome! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] Wish I could have heard them but that's OK, hopefully tomorrow I will bring my baby home. ;) He plans on putting on the dyno some time in the morning. It's suppose to rain here tomorrow so I will have to play it by ear. He said the chain tensioners looked good, he had them boxed up and I said I will look at it later. Can't wait to see the dyno results! See Ya!
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Not yet d00d! I was workinf out of town and called in around 2:00 and they were waiting on Zippers to call them about updating something on their dyno. I called Tony at Zippers and he said they were calling them up as soon as he got off the phone. Called back at 5:00 and mechanic was talking with Zippers. It was raining here and didn't get in untill 10:00. I plan on going there first thing in the morning to see what's up. Believe me, I will not forget to post pics of dyno sheets. See Ya, God Bless!
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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YaaaaaaHHHHHooooooooEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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YaaaaaaHHHHHooooooooEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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Ok JR you know the drill...........
Let's see the Dyno Sheet!
[smiley=worthless.gif] ie. DynoJet results.....
Glad to see your another satisfied Zipper's customer. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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Baseline and Modified Map
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Modified Map with Air/Fuel
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.This run is with Zippers Map for Thundermax ECM, D&D Fatcats, and 575 cams.
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JR,
Congratulations!
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Thanks Fatboy! Tony from Zippers said the same thing. He called them up since they have never used Thundermax ECM before. He said he was real easy to work with. He modified the Map and I can't believe the difference it made in the seat of the pants, forget about the dyno sheet! The mechanic that installed and dyno'd is the only one that touches my bike. They know how picky I am and he is the same way. Great Kid and a great job![smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]He caught one of my throttle cables hanging on by a thread and replaced it with one a little longer. Thank God he found that as I like to take 4-600 mile scoots when I get the opportunity.
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Thanks Fatboy! Tony from Zippers said the same thing. He called them up since they have never used Thundermax ECM before. He said he was real easy to work with. He modified the Map and I can't believe the difference it made in the seat of the pants, forget about the dyno sheet! The mechanic that installed and dyno'd is the only one that touches my bike. They know how picky I am and he is the same way. Great Kid and a great job![smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]He caught one of my throttle cables hanging on by a thread and replaced it with one a little longer. Thank God he found that as I like to take 4-600 mile scoots when I get the opportunity.
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JR,
The final curve looks real good, especially compared to a stock 103 at 2500 - 3500 rpm.
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Nice gains JR. Gotta like that tourqe curve. Do you have a stock baseline run to compare, before upgrades?
Brian @ Bumpus did a great job on your tune up. The map that was supplied with your ThunderMax ECM did require fine tuning for your application to achieve optimal results, as it was generated with a 50MM throttle body.
I spoke with Brian while your job was in progress - he's a nice guy - savy too. When I returned his call, he was already linked and testing the waters with software that he had never used before. He was on a mission to provide you the very best results. Nice to have such pros pulling for you in your local dealership. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
Enjoy your new power. If your heading to Myrtle Beach, look us up at Broadway on The Beach.
See you there!
Bill Lam
Zipper's Performance Products
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Bill thanks alot! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] I'm so thankful to have Brian work on my scooter. I was impressed with him the first time I met him. I am also very thankful for Tony at Zippers for helping setting me up. I must say though, I was told you had a Map for my cams, AC,and Fatcats but they were with performance baffles which I did not choose to go with. It was suppose to be with ECM. If you did not have one for this application, I should have been notified. Tony knew I was waiting on ecm and bike was at dealer so maybe he knew I was to have dyno'd. It was my understanding I would not have needed Dyno if I did not want to. I'm glad I did now. Will not be able to attend Myrtle Beach this time but look forward to some day seeing ya'll. Until then, God Bless!
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Nice gains JR.
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JR,
Those results are awesome. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] Glad you got everything worked out and are now grinning like the rest of us that had been waiting on these cams. Take care, and enjoy twisting that throttle. ;D
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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JR I hope you enjoy your NEW RIDE!!!! The guys at Zippers will bend over backwards to help you. They are very busy and sometimes it takes awhile but they will take care of you. I just can't wait to get Punkin back!!!!!! Maybe with a 124 inch motor to boot!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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JR I hope you enjoy your NEW RIDE!!!! The guys at Zippers will bend over backwards to help you. They are very busy and sometimes it takes awhile but they will take care of you. I just can't wait to get Punkin back!!!!!! [highlight]Maybe with a 124 inch motor to boot[/highlight]!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Yeah, 'er 'uh, DAWG,
Now, at long last, I may have some competition. Any chance of stretchin' 'em out at Octoberfest, there DAWG? October ain't that far away, ya' know. Please advise. Later--HUBBARD
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If I was a betting man....I'd bet 'ol Maudie and the Punkin could meet up even sooner for an awesome display of speed and power.......say WV State Hog Rally ???? [smiley=nixweiss.gif] 8-)
(I'm a part-time promoter ya know) [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
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Hey JR,
Congrats on the results of the newly added go fast goodies!
Ride safe!
Yellowesedeuce
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If I was a betting man....I'd bet 'ol Maudie and the Punkin could meet up even sooner for an awesome
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Hey JR,
Congrats on the results of the newly added go fast goodies!
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If I was a betting man....I'd bet 'ol Maudie and the Punkin could meet up even sooner for an awesome
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Boy oh boy......this could get ugly if the "Led Sled" chits the bed and gets smoked on her own home turf. [smiley=nervous.gif]
158hp WOW :o that should make it very very interesting to say the least........now we all know what the Dawg had up his sleeve. 8-)
Git-r-done Mike ! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] Hubbard needs some company at the top. [smiley=drink.gif]
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Boy oh boy......[highlight]this could get ugly if the "Led Sled" [/highlight][highlight]chits the bed and gets smoked on her own home turf.[/highlight]
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158hp WOW
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Stopped by Zippers to see what was going on with Punkin. Not much she was sitting over in the corner next to a rocket Dyna they have been working on. I did ride her with the new cams installed. Very impressed with the throttle response. I do have a dyno sheet with the new cams installed. I tried to scan it last night but I am missing part of the program for my new 4 in one1 printer. The numbers were (if I remember correctly) 98.6 H/P and 110.9 TQ. The Tq curve had a hudge dip in it but jumped up quickly. This is an inherent problem with the Thunder Header. There is a fix for it but they did not bother with it. Also the numbers are SAE CORRECTED!!!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Hello DAWG,
I always enjoy your posts. I am curious about your comment regarding "the big torgue dip" that is common with the Thunderheader, and the "fix" for it. I was under the impression that generally the 2 into 1 pipes produced the best overall performance on the V-Twin (especially low end torgue), and that the Thunderheader was the best of these 2 into 1 exhaust systems. I know that the Thunderheader is using 1-3/4 primary piping which is the same size as standard EVO an TC stock exhaust. Generally speaking, smaller diameter primary with longer length, would mean great low-end torgue. Couple that with the Thunderheader collector system and anti-reversion characteristics, I am surprised that there is a low-end torgue problem. I know that some of the other pipes with the large diameter and/or stepped primary primaries are looking for peak horsepower and torgue readings. These pipes do not really help you with power in your normal 2-4000 RPM driving range.
The Thunderheader only comes in one pipe size (1-3/4) and was introduced when 80 ci EVO motors were the latest technology. It was my understanding at that time that the Thunderheader was a true performance pipe and that there was infact a torgue dip in the lower RPM range. But I wonder if that holds true with the Screaming Eagle motors that are almost 30% larger in displacement (103 ci). With 80 ci the Thunderheader is a high-end pipe; with 103 cubes and the higher throughput of the CVO motors, the Thunderheader is actually more of a low-end pipe.
I have always read Harley V-Twin exhaust dyno comparisons with great interest, as the differences in performance between different styles and makes were dramatic. Is there a consensus as to whose 2 into 1 pipe is the better performer for 103 displacement motors in the 2-5000 RPM range? For a cam, I will be going with the RedShift 575 grind, perfect for my RPM range. I have not seen any dyno comparisons in the magazines lately; are there any good magazine articles out there? By the way, what is the "fix" you are referring to?
Just for reference, I have a 2005 SE Fat Boy that I put a Thunderheader on and tuned with a SERT. The performance improvement was dramatic. The same amount of throttle and time that used to get you to 2800-3000 RPM now blasts you to 4000 RPM. It is really running beautiful, and you cannot beat the Thunderheader sound. Really appreciate the feedback. Thanks
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RATKING thanks for the reply.
The Thunder Header has always had the low rpm TQ dip( around 2000 rpm) even with the Evo motor. It is a quick dip and pulls up quickly. I am at the firehouse today and can't give you the numbers where the dip occured. It was fast and TQ droped about 5 ft lbs if I remember correctly. It also pulled up to 98 ft lbs at 3000 rpm on my bike.
The fix for the TQ dip is very easy. The V Girlie got to see the fix and wondered what is was for and she actually understood the fix. You drill a 3/8 hole on the bottom of the pipe near the rear but in front of the cone insert a 3/8 bolt with a nut inside and out so you can lock it when you are done. You then redyno and screw the bolt in the pipe till the dip goes away. I don't know how it works but it does.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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(http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/500/2664dyno_run_2.jpg)
Well here it finally is...
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(http://bigbikeriders.com/photopost/data/500/2664dyno_run_2.jpg)
Well here it finally is...
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Aussie Mike,
Do you know if your first run with higher numbers was a corrected (SAE) or non-corrected (STD) dyno run? Your second run numbers after the cam swap may be corrected instead and that could be why your numbers appear to have gone backwards... [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
My guess is that might be it as you said it does feel stronger than before
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Aussie Mike,
Do you know if your first run with higher numbers was a corrected (SAE) or non-corrected (STD) dyno run?
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Aussie Mike,
Do you know if your first run with higher numbers was a corrected (SAE) or non-corrected (STD) dyno run?
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Here is the sheet
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For those with poor eyesight
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Here's a brief ride report on the new cams after covering some miles. Have returned now from a trip that put 3500 miles on the motor; mostly highway. Trip was supposed to be a bit more miles but this was enough to really get a handle for what the bike "felt" like after the cams' installation.
So far as cruising long hours on the highway is concerned it's a great combination. Tons of pull right where you want it and when you want it. It's a much much better combination in the mountains than it was previously. Not downshifting nearly so often. For Interstate miles the engine feels perfectly at home at 75 in 6th. It's even very happy at 70 in 6th. It would not have been before.
So, without worrying about numbers of any kind; but simply speaking to how it feels as a cruiser now, I am very very pleased. It's just a very nice feeling combination that cruises down the road in a manner like it should have coming from the factory (but didn't). The bike is much more of a pleasure to ride now and actually even a bit less "work" to ride as well. Even more glad I did it now after the trip than I was when I first got on it after the work was completed.
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Excellent report Buddy! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] Glad to see ya posting again, was getting a little worried about ya. [smiley=cherry.gif]
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
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Excellent report Buddy! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] Glad to see ya posting again, was getting a little worried about ya. [smiley=cherry.gif]
JR [smiley=banana.gif]
Thank you JR. Appreciate it [smiley=drink.gif] . Bike is even all cleaned up from the trip finally and ready to eat bugs again. How you liking the feel of the yellow bike since getting the work done?
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Thank you JR.
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Can someone give me a general estimate of the labor time to replace the stock cams with the Redshift 575's? I'm shopping around to get them installed.
Thanks in advance
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Can someone give me a general estimate of the labor time to replace the stock cams with the Redshift 575's? I'm shopping around to get them installed.
Thanks in advance
It will vary but I do them in about 4 hours
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4 hours for the install
AND
****Plan for about 2 hours on the dyno for tuning
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Thanks guys! I received my box of goodies last night and can hardly wait to get them installed. I was quoted everything from 4.5 to 10 hours. At 10 I figure there must be a smoke break every 15 minutes. Have an appointment to get them done a week from Saturday. Leave on business for a week the next day, so will have to wait until I return for the dyno tune.
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Gordito you will love the bike even more after the install. Make sure you keep us posted.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Gordito you will love the bike even more after the install. Make sure you keep us posted.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Cam install Saturday. Two questions:
1. Has anyone had a problem with the oil blow-by (or whatever it's for) Zippers sold with this kit? I've heard stories of getting too much pressure with it's use and dipsticks being forced out of the filler neck. Thus, oil all over the bike.
2. Does anyone have a map for the SERT w/the cams, SE air cleaner and Bassani pipes??
Thanks in advance,
Rick
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Can't help you with the map, but can set your mind at ease on the oil pressure concern. No, no problem with the Zippers bypass spring. My bike has the 575, Feuling Oil Pump and lifters as well as the Zippers bypass. With the stock HD setup, the top end is getting very little, if any oil at hot idle. My oil pressure is about 60lbs at cruise and 30 at idle. No problems, unless you use one of the goofy aftermarket dipsticks and caps. Biggest problem with them blowing out is riders not being aware that it is necessary to wipe the rubber grommet under the cap after they check their oil.
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Biggest problem with them blowing out is [highlight]riders not being aware that it is necessary to wipe [/highlight][highlight]the rubber grommet[/highlight] under the cap after they check their oil.
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Thanks fellas! I have the stock dipstick, nothing fancy yet.
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Only a very general commentary here. My cam and oil pump job was done long enough ago now that I've gotten used to the "feel" of the bike as it is now. So passed that initial rush. Now it's just more fun all the time. But this past week and the trip back and forth to CC allow for a bit more insight.
Rode out on two laned US 50 through the Plains, scrub, high desert and on in to the mountains. Pegged the rain gauge on the dash and saw real temps of 100 degrees plus a point or two for awhile. Oil pressure was always as BLM described. Just rock solid all the time. Drop back to idle and it never falls to nearly nothing before recovering as it did stock. Engine is much more well protected from that vantage point right now.
The other thing worth mentioning is that with the torque curve brought in as early and strongly as it now is by this cam setup the bike loves the mountains. Just pulls and pulls and pulls. Could not have had more fun. The red bike has now been over the mountains in WV going east and PA coming back west and then made the trip to the Rockies. Altitude, grade or moderate abuse just don't faze it. Really a great combination.
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In reviewing all the dyno sheets that people have posted in this thread, I noticed that JR's D&D 2-into-1 made the most HP at a rather high RPM.
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In reviewing all the dyno sheets that people have posted in this thread, I noticed that JR's D&D 2-into-1 made the most HP at a rather high RPM.
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Pete, thanks for the reply. Do you have a photo you can post of the Rinehart 2-into-1's?? Also, I noticed you went with the 50mm TB where others here have stayed with the stock. Sorry if it's in here somewhere, but what kind of improvement is that good for? [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
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Pete, thanks for the reply.
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Pete, thanks again. A Zipper's employee contacted me tonight and will be e-mailing me those same graphs, I think. I'll look forward to seeing the photo of your bike/pipes tomorrow!
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Pete, thanks again.
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In reviewing all the dyno sheets that people have posted in this thread, I noticed that JR's D&D 2-into-1 made the most HP at a rather high RPM.
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Pete, thanks for the reply.
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And the second dyno chart...
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AJH it seems that there is a definite limit on the D&D's my original dyno on the pumpkin matches yours of the D&D almost exactly and when I had had the work done on the 103 muscle kit the torque curve almost matched almost identically to the pumpkin and to the cherry. that being said I would say the number limitation on the D*D is the pipe itself. I would really have liked to see a run with the 575 with the Bassani Road Rage pipe. I think that the Bassani will be top of the heap with the thunderheader 2nd .... just my guess.
thanks for posting that made a lot of things make a lot more sense to me as we kept shaking our heads on why the TQ was so limited.
-harry
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Pete, thanks again.
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AJH- Were there any 'before' runs taken? Really like to see the original curves too... THanks
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Great looking Seeg Pete,And the Sweetest looking color! [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
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103tHunDer,
Here are the dyno charts I promised you last night.
ajh, thanks for posting!
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Here ya go!
Pete, that pipe looks sweet! Thanks for the photo! [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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Al, not sure if ajh has before runs, but if not, here are some A-motor before and after charts from this thread that help to show the gains produced by the Zippers Red Shift 575s, consolidated here in one place (both Rinehart true dual bikes):
Thanks for doing that- I am increasingly happy you guys led me to the D&D Fatcat solution- I love that long and hard torque curve....
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Thanks for doing that- I am increasingly happy you guys led me to the D&D Fatcat solution- I love that long and hard torque curve....
It it long, and it comes in 1,000 rpm sooner than the Rinehart true dual (beginning at 2,000 rpm vs. around 3,000 rpm for the Rineharts), but the Rineharts deliver peak numbers that are substantially higher for a full 2,000 rpms (3,000 - 5,000 rpm) before the lines come together again in ajh's chart. Like ajh said, it depends on your riding style which pipe is best for you, but unless I'm short-shifting all the time, it seems like Rineharts are going to be the best combo for these cams for my riding style, based on that first chart at least, as they continue to come on as you accelerate through the rpm band.
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AJH- Were there any 'before' runs taken? Really like to see the original curves too... THanks
Big Al,
Sorry for the delay, I do have a bone stock run for you to compare. Also for everyone else I've attached a Screaming Eagle Fat Boy that is bone stock, the balanced motors have more internal losses so the power is slightly below the Twin Cam A's output to the tire. I will post a dyno chart on the Fat Boy when we run it on the DynoJet, however i've seen at least one on this site that looks exactly like what i'm expecting to see.
I apologize for the torque being cut off on the "A" motor, it peaked just shy of 90 ft lbs, so the program didn't scale the chart up to the 100 ft lb mark, but you get the idea.
Thanks for the positive responses and I hope to see more Happy Red Shift customers in the group.
Adam
Red Shift Cams / Zipper's Performance Products
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This is the "B" 103 in stock form, both graphs are showing SAE Corrected run fyi.
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This is the "B" 103 in stock form, both graphs are showing SAE Corrected run fyi.
Thanks for doing this- it really lets me know what we are getting and what we're not. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
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Thanks for doing this- it really lets me know what we are getting and what we're not. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
From some one that has done these upgrades how about I show you instead of tell you what I get everytime I twist the throttle......
1st gear ;D, 2nd gear ;D, 3rd gear ;D, 4th gear ;D, 5th gear ;D
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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From some one that has done these upgrades how about I show you instead of tell you what I get everytime I twist the throttle......
1st gear ;D, 2nd gear ;D, 3rd gear ;D, 4th gear ;D, 5th gear ;D
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hd-dude gets my ride on Monday and I am looking forward to a similar set of
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Firedood,
I wish I had the sense to be more conservative ..... [smiley=oops.gif] sure hope my wife dont see that hehe.
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Firedood,
I wish I had the sense to be more conservative .....
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OUCH ..... I deny everything its the meds talking.
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I too have installed the 575's and can highly recommend them to anyone with a 103 motor. The bike was not dyned before or after. I am just using my butt dyno.
Before 575's-stock 103 with SE air cleaner, stock exhaust/mufflers, and cartridge download. The motor ran/started fine cold or hot. Driveabiliy was good. What I didn't like- there was not much torque between 2-2400 rpm's.. Everytime I got close to 2,000, I would down shift.
After 575's-103 with SE air cleaner, stock exhaust/mufflers, and cartridge download. It still runs/starts fine hot or cold. The big difference is that you have power starting at about 1800 rpm's.. Just twist the throttle and go.. You don't have to downshift now when getting close to 2,000. Even the touring mufflers have a different note on acceleration-sounds like you have a motor now.
Am set up to have the air fuel mixture checked on Monday on a dyno.. Just want to make sure it is not lean. If it is, it would be borderline, as it still runs to good with no pops, farts.. Maybe won't have to buy the TMax or Autotune even though I have the bungs installed.
If you want power over 4,000, this cam is not for you. If you want a cam that works in the 2-3500 rpm range which most ride in-it does what is advertised. Thanks Zippers and for all who posted and recommended this cam before me. Highly recommended.
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I too have installed the 575's and can highly recommend them to anyone with a 103 motor.
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A few things while this is apart .... I would change the throttlebody to a 50mm either Zippers or Horsepower inc. make sure you get cruise control with it.
In the engine side I would go with a Fueling Oil Pump, I wouldnt skimp so I would also put in new lifters (Fueling or other since your there, Zippers Adjustable Push Rods, and a Zippers Schim.
Whether you go with the standard Air Cleaner or the enlarged one is up to you make sure if you with the larger air cleaner that you get the extended studs :)
I also want to point out that this cam does not die at 4000 rpm's ... look at the dyno's and you will see they carry through past 5000 rpm's
-harry
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A few things while this is apart .... I would change the throttlebody to a 50mm either Zippers or Horsepower inc.
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Otophile-
Unbalanced and others know a whole lot more than me. I didn't do a larger TBI as I still have the stock exhaust/mufflers. I like others did the Feuling pump, bypass shim, and lifters. As you are thinking, it's best to do it right the first time. You will like the results.
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A few things while this is apart .... I would change the throttlebody to a 50mm either Zippers or Horsepower inc.
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Have order or on the way most of the parts you mentions, but had questions about throttle body change. Had missed this in previous threads or had true brain fart. Thanks for all the help, John
I have the same setup as was mentioned, and I didn't do the "Throttle Body" change. I'm not at home to see my parts manual but I'm pretty sure that the throttle body is not an "interior" part to the motor. I believe it just bolts up the heads, just like a carburetor would. So if you do decide later to change this you don't have to tear the motor down to do it.
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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dOOd,
i am pretty sure your right, but i still unclear how much bang for the buck you get for $400 in light of the other "upgrades"? the build job will be pretty close to yours but with V&H dresser true duals and slip ons, otherwise I was just wondering what the larger throttle body gave you in terms of performance (more torque, HP, etc.?)
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dOOd,
i am pretty sure your right, but i still unclear how much bang for the buck you get for $400 in light of the other "upgrades"?
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dOOd,
i am pretty sure your right, but i still unclear how much bang for the buck you get for $400 in light of the other "upgrades"?
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In my experience, you'll not increase HP or Torque more than a nearly imeasureable amount without having done a complete head job on the motor.
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thanks for all the info, that would be a two thumbs down on TB for me!
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I have the same setup as was mentioned, and I didn't do the "Throttle Body" change. I'm not at home to see my parts manual but I'm pretty sure that the throttle body is not an "interior" part to the motor. I believe it just bolts up the heads, just like a carburetor would. So if you do decide later to change this you don't have to tear the motor down to do it.
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
DOOD why yes you are correct. You only need to remove the tank.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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DOOD why yes you are correct. You only need to remove the tank.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
So you could put on your plug wires at the same time!
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So you could put on your plug wires at the same time!
If I did that I wouldn't have any reason to come to your place so we could work on my scooter. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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If I did that I wouldn't have any reason to come to your place so we could work on my scooter. [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
Too true. That's a good enough reason to wait right there [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] .
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In my experience, you'll not increase HP or Torque more than a nearly imeasureable amount without having done a complete head job on the motor.
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Very true Brian,
But if you ARE going to do headwork then you WILL need one of these.
Maybe not this big, but [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
Well along with cams and pistons ;D.
Should be a fine running 120 by mid December.
Anything beats stock! 8-)
Hmm, that looks like a friend of mines scooter will not be "stock" for too much longer. ;) ;D The upgrades you speak of and that "rocket" fuel you running you better put some lead in your a$$ to keep you from taking off. :o [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
[smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
[smiley=fireman.gif]
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Also, I'm thinking any gain with stock heads/pistons would only be at the upper rpms, right?
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DOOD why yes you are correct. You only need to remove the tank.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've had my throttlebody on and off without removing the tank..........just take out the bolt a the point closest to the seat nose, loosen the bolt at the front of the tank and raise it up a little. I also replaced the stock allen screws with 12 point bolts for an even quicker removal/install process if needed in the future.
Then again I did stay at the Holiday Inn Express that night.
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Very true Brian,
But if you ARE going to do headwork then you WILL need one of these.
Maybe not this big, but
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My new dyno sheet with PCII installed today. I believe the lake pipe I am running is the weak link, leaving me with a bit of a hole in the tq curve between 3000 & 4000rpm. I will redyno in the next few weeks with other pipes I have to see if I can fill that hole I have between 3000 & 4000rpm. But right now with 105.48hp & 109.59ft/lb tq I have a lot bigger smile than I did this morning. thats 11hp & 10ft/lb tq more than my harley stealer got me mapping my SERT(back in may 2006 when i installed the 575 cams). I also think the pipes I had on then (V & H bigshot staggered) would preform better than the lake pipe I have on now!
Cheers [smiley=drink.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
Aussie
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Like everyone else that did these (or their Freedom compatriot) you're not just seeing more you're see it much earlier. Noticable amounts of difference right in the riding range. Your butt dyno must be a happy wheel right now. Congrats on getting her done.
Let me know if you swap back to your V&H True Duals. If so I'll email you a decent Race Tuner map for a 103 w/575s and the air cleaner upgrade. If you've still got your RT module around you could load it before retuning that Power Commander. Then if the Power Commander ever gives you trouble out some distance from home you'll have at least a closer base map to get home on.
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Let me know if you swap back to your V&H True Duals.
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[size=16]OOOOH OOOOOH.......I'd like an email with that map.....was askin for it in the Maps section.......please....please.......[/size] mkhurley at verizon dot net
Here ya go. Posted on the site at:
http://flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1168306619/0
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Holy Crap Batman! I mean Aussie.
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Holy Crap Batman!
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Like everyone else that did these (or their Freedom compatriot) you're not just seeing more you're see it much earlier. Noticable amounts of difference right in the riding range. Your butt dyno must be a happy wheel right now. Congrats on getting her done.
Let me know if you swap back to your V&H True Duals. If so I'll email you a decent Race Tuner map for a 103 w/575s and the air cleaner upgrade. If you've still got your RT module around you could load it before retuning that Power Commander. Then if the Power Commander ever gives you trouble out some distance from home you'll have at least a closer base map to get home on.
Hey Twolane, I'm booked in to have my cams installed (w/Feuling pump and lifters etc) in early March - any chance you could mail me that map please?
I'm going to the dyno man after the cams go in but I figure the less he has to tweak the better
Thanks
Dave
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Dave, for the next few weeks, you should be able to pull it down from the old site here: http://old.flhrsei.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1168306619
Not sure why those attachments didn't transfer over. I was unable to re-attach the file to Don's post in this site, either. :nixweiss:
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Yup - got it, thanks 103
Cheers
Dave
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My new dyno sheet with PCII installed today. I believe the lake pipe I am running is the weak link, leaving me with a bit of a hole in the tq curve between 3000 & 4000rpm. I will redyno in the next few weeks with other pipes I have to see if I can fill that hole I have between 3000 & 4000rpm. But right now with 105.48hp & 109.59ft/lb tq I have a lot bigger smile than I did this morning. thats 11hp & 10ft/lb tq more than my harley stealer got me mapping my SERT(back in may 2006 when i installed the 575 cams). I also think the pipes I had on then (V & H bigshot staggered) would preform better than the lake pipe I have on now!
Cheers [smiley=drink.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]
Aussie
Aussie,
Those are impressive numbers, but in order to use that torque and HP you have to constantly run between 4500 and 5000 rpms. To me, that's not useable power...you want that torque down between 2500 and 3500 where you do all of your driving. Unless you're drag racing and always up around 5000 rpms. JMHO.
Cheers :2vrolijk_21:,
Red
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Hey Twolane, I'm booked in to have my cams installed (w/Feuling pump and lifters etc) in early March - any chance you could mail me that map please?
I'm going to the dyno man after the cams go in but I figure the less he has to tweak the better
Thanks
Dave
Have been gone for a few days so only saw this now Dave. If there was any problem with getting it from the link that 103 pointed out let me know and I'll email it to you directly.
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Aussie,
Those are impressive numbers, but in order to use that torque and HP you have to constantly run between 4500 and 5000 rpms. To me, that's not useable power...you want that torque down between 2500 and 3500 where you do all of your driving. Unless you're drag racing and always up around 5000 rpms. JMHO.
Cheers :2vrolijk_21:,
Red
Red Devil he has toooo much pipe on that bike. If he restricts his exhaust a bit the TQ curve will come in much faster . His peak TQ might suffer a bit and his H/P WILL drop a few but the would perform at lower RPM's better. Now remember he is on a fat bot and not a dresser so don't let those numbers fool you.
That bike is over 200 lbs lighter and would blow your A$$ away on the short hop. JMHO
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Red Devil he has toooo much pipe on that bike. If he restricts his exhaust a bit the TQ curve will come in much faster . His peak TQ might suffer a bit and his H/P WILL drop a few but the would perform at lower RPM's better. Now remember he is on a fat bot and not a dresser so don't let those numbers fool you.
That bike is over 200 lbs lighter and would blow your A$$ away on the short hop. JMHO
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Dawg,
No doubt that he would, due to the weight difference. ;) But then again, my momma didn't raise no fool. ::) I wouldn't be racing him anyway. (or anyone else for that matter :-\) I've got a touring rig and that's what I like to do. 8) I wanted the added torque for two-up riding mainly. When I do eventually put cams in, I'll want the type that brings the torque on nice and early. I think the Zippers 575's (or whatever will be their 110 version) seem like a pretty good choice, but I could be wrong there. :nixweiss:. What's you're take on those Dawg?
Cheers :2vrolijk_21:,
Red
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Dawg,
No doubt that he would, due to the weight difference. ;) But then again, my momma didn't raise no fool. ::) I wouldn't be racing him anyway. (or anyone else for that matter :-\) I've got a touring rig and that's what I like to do. 8) I wanted the added torque for two-up riding mainly. When I do eventually put cams in, I'll want the type that brings the torque on nice and early. I think the Zippers 575's (or whatever will be their 110 version) seem like a pretty good choice, but I could be wrong there. :nixweiss:. What's you're take on those Dawg?
Cheers :2vrolijk_21:,
Red
RED if Zippers sells it they have done quite a bit R&D work on the product. I like Red Shift cams. I have them in my bike.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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RED if Zippers sells it they have done quite a bit R&D work on the product. I like Red Shift cams. I have them in my bike.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Thanks Dawg. Have you heard if Zippers is working on a cam setup for the 110? Appreciate any info you might have.
Cheers :2vrolijk_21:,
Red
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I have not asked them what is going on with the 110 motor. I can make a phone call and see what is in the making.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Check out the Dealers tech area for Zippers they posted the 575 dyno for the 110 there.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php/topic,10775.0.html (http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php/topic,10775.0.html)
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HeY Harry,
After taking a look at the dyno numbers on the 110 for the 575, is it still an option, or is the curve too dramatic, while the top end looks lesser than a stock version after 4K or so.
Rhino
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Check out the Dealers tech area for Zippers they posted the 575 dyno for the 110 there.
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php/topic,10775.0.html (http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php/topic,10775.0.html)
That's not too bad of a dyno result. The torque is up about 90 lbs at 2700, and really busts in between 3-3.5K Peak horsepower comes in around 5.5K. Those a nice numbers. They used the Rhineharts on that run, so I would suspect that the torque would come in a little earlier with my Vance and Hines, and peak HP might be down a tad from that.
Cheers :2vrolijk_21:,
Red
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Ron,
If you were buying on numbers you would probably buy the FCC14, but you have to look at riding style in this case
If your looking just for low end grunt the 575 has the edge till 3800 rpm, some guys just don't go much above that. Guys that want to play a bit more aggressively may choose the FCC for the 110 engine due to the run out of the cam. They may or may not be playing catchup to the 575 depending if it is a rolling start or an off the line run. Off the line its going to be more of a how much rpm are you going to have already there when you pop the clutch. If you come out of the hole at 3500 rpm how much have you given up.... very little, but remember these are touring bikes not FXR's. Torque gets em moving.
Comparing whats been posted: 1 post by a vendor and the other by a member.
Numbers of 115tq, 100hp on the 575 and 119tq, 108hp on the FCC 14. There is a give away at the beginning on the FCC14 to the 575. At 3000 rpm the 575's are at 105 and the FCC is 90 at 3500 its about 114 on the 575 and the FCC is about 112, at 4000 575 is about 113 and the FCC is about 119, but in the upper end say north of 4000 rpm the 575 is dropping off a lot more in torque than the FCC14 and the horsepower on the 575 just doesnt climb quite as high based on the dyno sheets posted.
The other thing that is not noted on the 575 is there is no fuel curve to go along with the dyno sheet so no idea if the motor could have been richened up more or not or what it was run at. It would be a question for Kitz. Overall, "I" think based on the information given that this is a toss up depending where your willing to give up a few whether its in low end grunt to start or overall torque or higher end horsepower and riding style.
side note: Personally I am also interested in seeing what is delivered by Andrews here as they were supposed to announce a cam for the 110 at V-Twin show last week. (anyone talk to them about it?)
What's interesting is in the 103 that we have seen 117/105 with the 575 and the 110 isn't pushing out quite as much. It's another good question to ask Kitz about it, maybe he can help people understand the differences / perspectives based on head differences and throttle body differences.
I think it is going to be interesting to see some more of these combinations dyno'd and get peoples opinions on the cams and maybe even a few will run the bikes together or swap em to get both sides opinions on likes / dislikes from the butt dyno.
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Looks like it's from Woody's wallet! There's a whole lot of wallet wear on that package!!! [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] ;D
:nixweiss: :confused5: :o
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Harry,
What about the Mackie DM590G ? This is for what Beagle's asking about. Stock 05 103 with a Doherty Power PACC, Hooker True Duals and a PC. No head mods, just change the cam to ????? Freedom, Zipper or Mackie ?????
Thanks
B B
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Hey Dawg,
A few days have passed since your post on this topic.... Any word on the 110 cam options? I hear 575 is not a formal from Zippers yet. No News?, or maybe a newer surprise in the wings?
Rhino
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I have never seen the 590 used in a situation where the heads havent been worked thus I would have to say to talk to Mackie about it.
Generally the flow of the stock heads on an 04/05 are poor and since they are I doubt you would be able to take advantage of the air flow that that cam (590) would really like to have. The FCC and the Zippers are bolt in. You would have to ping Mackie on how he feels about the 590 being used as a bolt in in this situation. I have not yet seen anyone use it in a bolt in situation with no headwork.
My suggestion would be the Freedom due to your comment that your bro likes to run them top RPM's and the Zippers cam would probably bore him after 5000 rpm. As you said he likes to use 5990 of that 6000 rpms. Take a look at the dyno sheets posted and you will see the horsepower on the FCC carry out a bit further which should suite Beags well.
Lets face it if Beags was racing he would not be coming out to the hole at under 3000 rpm which would nullify and advantage given by the 575 and the fcc would give him a bit more on the top end in torque and hp using that as a guideline. Day to day he would probably not notice much difference in the overall low end of the numbers.
If he plans on not being outdone then I would expect him to be doing some headwork and following in Alan's footsteps on that roadking I would say the 590 or the 630 will end up being his poison.
The deciding factor is going to be headwork or not.
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Red Devil he has toooo much pipe on that bike. If he restricts his exhaust a bit the TQ curve will come in much faster . His peak TQ might suffer a bit and his H/P WILL drop a few but the would perform at lower RPM's better. Now remember he is on a fat bot and not a dresser so don't let those numbers fool you.
That bike is over 200 lbs lighter and would blow your A$$ away on the short hop. JMHO
Be Safe
THE DAWG
The Dawg,
I realise my pipe is not the ideal pipe for my set up but for now I like the look & how it sounds & it is going very well. I will be running on the dyno with my V& H big shot staggered at some stage to compare them, but first I want to see if my bigger 48.5mm TB changes things. Also considering the new V & H 2 into 1 big radius when it is released next month.
Cheers
Aussie
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Spiderman any cams out there not specicfully made for the CVO CC chamber you should stay away from. PERIOD!!!!!!!
The problem with the CVO heads are the CC chambers and the very low compression. The Zippers and FCC cams are designed to make the motor think it has a higher compression ratio. Hence they work!!!!! They add more lift and change the valve opening and closing events.
If you are going to do head work. Zippers Red Shift TC 647's or S&S 640's. You want as much lift as you can get for that motor. Don't forget to add a 50mm throttle body.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Just to clarify.....getting ready to do the 575 gear drive on my 06 SEUC. Case clearance appears essential, but what about crank runout and rockerbox clearance. Opinions seem to vary on the 06s. Thanks!
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Just to clarify.....getting ready to do the 575 gear drive on my 06 SEUC. Case clearance appears essential, but what about crank runout and rockerbox clearance. Opinions seem to vary on the 06s. Thanks!
I only remember two that had to gain a little case clearance for the 575s. I count mine among them even though I can't say with certainty it was required. It was just so very very close I couldn't not do it.
Runout issues seem to crop up with the changes after the 06 model year. Though it's simple to check and can't hurt to do so. Rocker box clearance issues were commonly with the following year also. Though if you're making the change to rollers while doing the other work you'll very likely have some grinding to do. Again, easy enough to check for and do a little clearancing if need be.
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Been doing a lot of research on cams for this 110's. From what I have found out these motors need a lot of lift and a little less duration than you would think, @ 244 ( no more ) will work the best on a mild build and very few mods due to the design of the combustion chamber, compression, port design and air flow. If you don't do some headwork, up the compression by changing pistons and few other mods, you will not get a good power band from low end torque @ 2000 to good pulling power to 6000. A so called bolt in cam moderate lift and no other mods will be disappointing. It will only move your torque curve up to come in later and that's not what you want for these 110's in heavy bikes. ( unless your looking for big high end power at higher RPM's ) And then you will need more mods to ensure they will hold up at these higher RPM's. If you are serious about changing cams for more torque and a longer power band, then I highly recommend upping your compression to @ 10.1 to 10.5 by changing pistons, do some cleanup work on your heads at the least, add a 51mm TB, good 2 & 1 exhaust ( D & D ), Hi Flow air filter goes without saying and then you can go with a good lift cam. A 625 lift 244 duration with @ 44 overlap would be and excellent choice !! This will work with your stock heads, after changing valve springs ! I'm sure there are good builders like Cycle-Rama or T-Man Performance that offer these cams.
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To my knowledge ( I may be wrong) there are only 2 companies out there with specific cam grinds for the CVO combustion chamber.
Freedom Cycles and my favorite Zippers. I have seen the Red Shift 575's in action. They work and work well. I for one am not much on DYNO NUMBERS. They can be fudged by anyone. I know Dan over at Zippers DOES NOT play the number game.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
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Wes Brown , CycleRama makes cams specifically for a 110. So do others. I use his CR 595 and it makes over 100 ft-lbs at 2000 RPM, climbs to 126.2 at peak, and never drops below 100 up to redline, with 9.8:1 CR. The flow characteristics required a much larger TB (62 mm) and a large exhaust (Performance FatCats). But this thing pulls like a mutha'! A larger lift cam causes more wear and tear on the valvetrain. There are good options and compromises out there. I'd think hard about using high lift cams on long mileage touring engines. ;)
Hoist! 8)
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Wes Brown , CycleRama makes cams specifically for a 110. So do others. I use his CR 595 and it makes over 100 ft-lbs at 2000 RPM, climbs to 126.2 at peak, and never drops below 100 up to redline, with 9.8:1 CR. The flow characteristics required a much larger TB (62 mm) and a large exhaust (Performance FatCats). But this thing pulls like a mutha'! A larger lift cam causes more wear and tear on the valvetrain. There are good options and compromises out there. I'd think hard about using high lift cams on long mileage touring engines. ;)
Hoist! 8)
Awwww, the 'voice of reason' this morning. ;D :2vrolijk_21: har! :drink: spyder
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Awwww, the 'voice of reason' this morning. ;D :2vrolijk_21: har! :drink: spyder
Yeah spyd, now if I can only get that long mileage touring engine I've been after! ::) ;D ;)
Hoist! 8)
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I, for one, will be watching & waiting (and pulling for ya, too). :2vrolijk_21: har! :drink: spyder
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I, for one, will be watching & waiting (and pulling for ya, too). :2vrolijk_21: har! :drink: spyder
Thanks bro! Won't be long now! :2vrolijk_21:
Hoist! 8)
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I, for one, will be watching & waiting (and pulling for ya, too). :2vrolijk_21: har! :drink: spyder
Spydglide,
For what it is worth, I have had no problem with the 595 cam and I have a little over 10k miles on the cam. Since the last fix with Wes on the leaking head gaskets I have almost 5k miles now on the gaskets and thus far no more leaks either, I know i just jinxed it, but ohh well it is what it is.
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Spydglide,
For what it is worth, I have had no problem with the 595 cam and I have a little over 10k miles on the cam. Since the last fix with Wes on the leaking head gaskets I have almost 5k miles now on the gaskets and thus far no more leaks either, I know i just jinxed it, but ohh well it is what it is.
For what it is worth, I also have had no problems with my Cycle Rama 595 cams - of course I don't have 10K on mine like
Harry - I have about 10M (10 minutes) in the garage on the lift running time - but so far so
good! :2vrolijk_21:
Scott
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Scott a little more time and you will catch/pass Howie hehe.
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Scott a little more time and you will catch/pass Howie hehe.
I'll defer any snappy comeback that I may have come up with to Howie!! :P
your turn Howie! :drink:
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Kinda Bummed! Just spent $2400 for 575's, gear drive, and Fatcat quiet baffle with dyno tune (SERT). Initial #'s (different dyno) SAE smoothing 3 with Zippers Hi-flow ac and Rinehart slipons 94 tq @ 4000 rpm and 89 hp @ 5500rpm. After Fatcat and 575 cam SAE 95 tq@ 3000, then dip to 89 tq @ 3600 rpm then back up to 95 @ 4300 to 5000 rpm. HP max of 92.5 @ 5500 rpm. Was hoping for results like JR's and others in the 100 hp and 105 tq range. Haven't taken it out for an extensive ride/evaluation yet to check the butt dyno. Sorry for no dyno chart....I'm dain bramaged! Any thoughts or comments
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Oh yeah....06 103 SEUC...too many Margaritas tonight!
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Kinda Bummed! Just spent $2400 for 575's, gear drive, and Fatcat quiet baffle with dyno tune (SERT). Initial #'s (different dyno) SAE smoothing 3 with Zippers Hi-flow ac and Rinehart slipons 94 tq @ 4000 rpm and 89 hp @ 5500rpm. After Fatcat and 575 cam SAE 95 tq@ 3000, then dip to 89 tq @ 3600 rpm then back up to 95 @ 4300 to 5000 rpm. HP max of 92.5 @ 5500 rpm. Was hoping for results like JR's and others in the 100 hp and 105 tq range. Haven't taken it out for an extensive ride/evaluation yet to check the butt dyno. Sorry for no dyno chart....I'm dain bramaged! Any thoughts or comments
Don't depend so much on what others got from different dyno machines because there are to many variables that can make the numbers different. Ride the bike and let your butt dyno be more of a judge. Also post a copy of the dyno run somebody might see something in that that would help or explain what is going on.
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Numbers are low, most here with the 575 cams and good exhaust are getting numbers of 100+ on the horsepower and 110 -116 in the torque. These numbers are from dyno's all over the country so they are pretty reliable. I would like to see the shhet if you can post it.
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Just returned from performance check with butt dyno. "I'm diggin it!" Bike will pull way lower than before....I can lug it down to 1500 rpm and start a hard pull @2000rpm. Stock cam was very unhappy @ 2000 rpm and didn't start kicking until close to 3000 rpm. Definitely good,hard torque pull all across the 2-5000 range. Plenty of power for me and definitely an improvement over stock. Think I'll just ignore the shop's dyno results. HD-Dude, I'll see if I can fax the sheets to you and then you can comment, post, or whatever. Thanks!
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Glad to hear that the "butt dyno" can tell the difference and it's performing better then before. :2vrolijk_21:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Glad to hear that the "butt dyno" can tell the difference and it's performing better then before. :2vrolijk_21:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
You know that this is the most important point. I did not mean to dis your tune by any means. The numbers do seem low compared to others but they are just that "numbers". If it feels good and your happy then that is all that really matters.
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No offense taken! If not for all the knowledge I've gained off of this site, I'd be at the mercy of a bunch of ill-informed dealers/techs. I welcome all opinions!