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[Nicky Pass]

It varies from dealer to dealer.  If I went in for a blown speaker and they said my warranty was void because of my aftermarket exhaust, I'd be pissed!  That being said, there are "mod friendly" dealers, find one and you'll be happy and not worry as much.

[JIMINVA]

FWIW - I have only gotten to 2 dealers here in the DC area so far to discuss the M8, the EPA, the tuning and warranty voiding.  Here is what I have so far and I know its no surprise to you all:

1. If a owner uses any tuner other than a HD Street tuner - the power train warranty will be voided

2. All new (M8 associated) SE add ons will adhere to EPA standards

3. Any other add ons affecting engine/power/air will void the warranty.

QUOTE FROM ONE LONG TIME DEALER ASSOCIATE: "Jim I'm sorry, in a way this issue has always been there. But we always could take care of you by staying with us.  Now, we just can't risk the $36,000.00 fine."

Research continues.

[JIMINVA]

That is almost word for word what I ws told by 2 dealers here in DC area.  As a life time now retired FED - I ghave seen too much uncontrolled insanity - I can see the future of warranty + tuning + performance being in conflict for quite a while.  Damn

Don't know anything about that federal law stuff but I was told by two separate HD dealership owners if you have any major motor problems and they see that you have the cats cut out, aftermarket tuner, aftermarket head pipes, or have something they consider racing pipes on your bike it can void your warranty. This all happened in the last week and applies to all bikes that are still under warranty. I was told by my local dealership that they will try to work with me if they can but IF they need to get a HD rep involved HD will try to play the void card. Just trying to pass on what I was told.

[JIMINVA]

Spoke with GM at dealer outside the DC Beltway; Here is his take:
1. Short version is that HD will void powertrain warranty if aftermarket tuner is used.
2. However if you use aftermarket header HD’s tuner will not have proper mapping.
3. But, why use an aftermarket header?
4. In the past the answer was: power, heat reduction and sound.
5. Bike now has much more power and much less heat so reasons of power and heat are less important.

I as considering to give a 17 a try after I sell my 16 CVO -- but -- I'd hate to ride a bike that is chained to EPA compliance !

[JIMINVA]

GM I know sent me this MOCO policy excerpt:

25 OCT 2016 ADDITION: GM sent this to me from MOCO Policy:

 U.S. Customers: defects or damage impacting the functionality

 of powertrain components in a motorcycle that has been tuned

 using a tuner or calibration that was not covered by a California

 ARB Executive Order or otherwise approved by EPA’.

In addition to this change, *** a new VIN block message will now

 be used on all warranty claims where the motorcycle meets the

 above statement. The VIN blocked message will read:

• ‘Non-compliant part affected powertrain’. *** In addition, warranty

 claims will be denied for this reason.

 NOTE

 The definition of powertrain in this instance pertains to the

 engine and all of its components, including the ECM (Engine

 Control Module), primary drive and transmission including all

 its components.

[Mano]

It varies from dealer to dealer.  If I went in for a blown speaker and they said my warranty was void because of my aftermarket exhaust, I'd be pissed!  That being said, there are "mod friendly" dealers, find one and you'll be happy and not worry as much.

X2
With just over $20 000 CAN in warranty work on my 2011 I agree with Nicky Pass. The dealer is the key. If and how they write it up the repairs will get done.

[CVOStreetglide]

Do we think that in the not too distant future dealers will refuse to take bikes in trade that are non EPA compliant.

Now THAT would throw a wrench into things.

We'd be back to saving all of the stock parts and reflashing ECM's before we took the bike in for trade.

It's possible with the current government.

[skratch]

it's entirely possible.  or at least a big hit on trade value as the dealer would have to return it to epa compliant mode, and they aren't going to do that out of the goodness of their heart, so instead of raising the price of the used bike, they'll ding the tradee on cost to return bike to stock (or both.... )

[JIMINVA]

I have my 16 CVO listed for sale -- I'm re-considering.  Jeez

[FLTRCVO]

GM I know sent me this MOCO policy excerpt:

25 OCT 2016 ADDITION: GM sent this to me from MOCO Policy:

 U.S. Customers: defects or damage impacting the functionality

 of powertrain components in a motorcycle that has been tuned

 using a tuner or calibration that was not covered by a California

 ARB Executive Order or otherwise approved by EPA’.

In addition to this change, *** a new VIN block message will now

 be used on all warranty claims where the motorcycle meets the

 above statement. The VIN blocked message will read:

• ‘Non-compliant part affected powertrain’. *** In addition, warranty

 claims will be denied for this reason.

 NOTE

 The definition of powertrain in this instance pertains to the

 engine and all of its components, including the ECM (Engine

 Control Module), primary drive and transmission including all

 its components.

Well then; doesn't this open the door for litigation against the Dealerships that pushed the illegal products, installed the illegal products accepted the money for the product and charged to tune the motorcycle because you installed the product they told you the motorcycle needed. Sounds like the litigation process hasn't really ended for Harley at all.

[FLTRCVO]

GM I know sent me this MOCO policy excerpt:

25 OCT 2016 ADDITION: GM sent this to me from MOCO Policy:

 U.S. Customers: defects or damage impacting the functionality

 of powertrain components in a motorcycle that has been tuned

 using a tuner or calibration that was not covered by a California

 ARB Executive Order or otherwise approved by EPA’.

In addition to this change, *** a new VIN block message will now

 be used on all warranty claims where the motorcycle meets the

 above statement. The VIN blocked message will read:

• ‘Non-compliant part affected powertrain’. *** In addition, warranty

 claims will be denied for this reason.

 NOTE

 The definition of powertrain in this instance pertains to the

 engine and all of its components, including the ECM (Engine

 Control Module), primary drive and transmission including all

 its components.

With this policy Harley better go through their receipts and be ready to exchange their illegal tuners and re-tune many motorcycles as if it were a recall.

[Dr.D]

If Harley has a non EPA compliant bike come in and they work on it are they complicit?

Will they be assuming any responsibility of the bike found in violation of Federal law?

[FLTRCVO]

The Service Manager at one of the 3 Las Vegas Harley Dealers told me my 2009 FLTRSE3  is Grandfathered, should I have any motor issues. This is not the Dealer who did a complete rebuilt of my motor in September under the ESP; nor the one that sold and installed the SERT and pipes. 

2009 FLTRSE3 / SEPRT / D and D 2 into 1 Fat Cat Exhaust /

[Twolanerider]

The Service Manager at one of the 3 Las Vegas Harley Dealers told me my 2009 FLTRSE3  is Grandfathered, should I have any motor issues. This is not the Dealer who did a complete rebuilt of my motor in September under the ESP. 

2009 FLTRSE3 / SEPRT / D and D 2 into 1 Fat Cat Exhaust /

Grandfathered in what?  Or how?  The major legislation and administrative rulings governing what is allowed and what can legally be altered haven't altered.  The emissions particulate standards continually evolve.  The main guidelines that disallow altering emissions hardware from the Federal level have been consistent for years though.  So this type of remark from a dealership doesn't pass the sniff test.

They might as well say "we didn't pay attention as much on bikes with changes like yours before -- even though the rules said we should -- now on new bikes we don't dare get caught -- we hope we don't get caught on yours -- but god help you if something happens to change our mind tomorrow."

[FLSTFI Dave]

Thing is removing the catalytic converter has always been in violation of EPA law for street use.  Harley Davidson MOCO has turned a blind eye on it until they got this huge fine and settlement.  Some dealers would not cover stuff in the past if you had modified the exhaust, or engine, some would. 

Now there will be many more who will void the warranty if you modify with anything but approved parts.  There will  be some that will work with the customer still.

So if you have a dealer that will work with you if you modify the exhaust or tune thats great if you stay local.  If your 3000 miles from home, thats not so good.

Harley MOCO now wants a readout of the ECM to see if the bike has been modified with anything other than an approved tune.  If your bike has a non HD map, warranty void.

If you change a head pipe, you will have to change to a non HD Map other wise it will be way to lean.