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[omgtkk]

Hi all,
First post here, but likely not my last.
I'm a new owner of a '99 FXR2.  I'll post some pics and an history of the bike when I get a chance.  Anyhow,  I would like to upgrade the brakes on the bike.  Anyone know if a late model, non-brembo HD 2 piston caliper will bolt up to replace the single piston that is on the bike.  I can find a new take-off on Ebay for pennies and I would prefer to keep a near stock look, rather than spend the big bucks for aftermarket units.
Thanks

[Hoist!]

Hi all,
First post here, but likely not my last.
I'm a new owner of a '99 FXR2.  I'll post some pics and an history of the bike when I get a chance.  Anyhow,  I would like to upgrade the brakes on the bike.  Anyone know if a late model, non-brembo HD 2 piston caliper will bolt up to replace the single piston that is on the bike.  I can find a new take-off on Ebay for pennies and I would prefer to keep a near stock look, rather than spend the big bucks for aftermarket units.
Thanks

I'm pretty sure that only the FXR4's have the bosses on the fork legs to accept the later style calipers. I don't believe later style calipers and the previous generation are interchangeable. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Enjoy that beautiful new RED2 of yours omg!!!

Hoist!

[FXR2evo99]

Logic would conclude that Hoist is absolutely correct, the bosses are different on the FXR2 & FXR3 fork as compared to the FXR4 forks thus I would "assume" that there is no way to get a "twin cam" 2 piston caliper to properly be secured to front forks which are designed for the evo style one piston calipers.

So one has basically 6 choices:

1)  Do nothing
2)  Replace the FXR2 forks with FXR4 forks and run two rotors with the "twin cam" styled 2 piston brake calipers which would also mean changing the front wheel.
3)  Replace the FXR2 forks with the front end of a 1989+ FXRS-SP Low Rider Sport or a FXRS-CONV which also has the 39mm forks inclusive of two rotors and the "evo" one piston brake caliper but with this modification you would at least have two calipers also requiring change of front wheel.
4)  Replace the FXR2 Forks with a 2001+ FXDXT with cartridge forks and two twin cam style 2 piston brakes, which would require a different front wheel.
5)  Replace with a twin cam 39mm forks with one rotor working with a twin cam 2 piston caliper, which will require modifying to a different front wheel as well.
6)  use the stock FXR2 wheel and rotor and simply change front brake caliper over to a Performance Machine 4 Piston Caliper:
4 Piston Caliper and Bracket
1984 - 1999 FXR & XLH
125X4SL CALIPER FOR 11.5" DISCS
Single (1) Caliper & Bracket   Performance Machine use stock 11.5" disc.
Chrome   1219-0017-CH   $399.95   
High Friction Brake Pads 125X2 EBC SB101C 0052-1601EM Order In Pairs Sintered Material

There is a thread about this, simply click below, view & read if you like:

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=22360.0;all

Regards,

Tim

[omgtkk]

Thanks Tim,
I did a little looking myself this weekend and pretty much came up with options 1 & 6, along with deglazing the rotors and simply upgrading the pads to Lyndals.  I'll probably just keep it the way it is until it needs new pads.  It's just that switching between an '08 RoadGlide with dual 4 piston Brembos and this bike is a bit of a shock.
Thanks

[Hoist!]

I'll be using the direct bolton (no bracket required) PM differential bore 4 or 6 piston front caliper, but I have a mag wheel. That caliper supposedly can't be used with spoke wheels though.

Hoist!

[FXR2evo99]

".........It's just that switching between an '08 RoadGlide with dual 4 piston Brembos and this bike is a bit of a shock........"

You are absolutely correct.....it is quite a huge chasm between the two......I have read that the difference between stopping distance with 1 rotor/caliper vs having dual rotors/dual calipers is approximately 12%.  What I am not aware of is the increased stopping potential in decreasing the stopping distance by using dual calipers that are either a "Twin Cam" 2 Piston Calipers vs a Evo "styled" 1 piston" calipers  as well as considering the shorter stopping distance as might be experienced when using a aftermarket version of a brake calipers in a dual front calipers set up  such as a Performance Machine or a Brembo Style calipers vs a Twin Cam HD 2 piston brake calipers.....

It would seem logical that a dual rotor/caliper set up that had two "Twin Cam" 2 piston calipers would obviously stop faster than a set up with dual evo 1 piston calipers but by how much, would it be significant or marginal........

One thing I believe I am correct in stating however, is that it hasn't been directly discussed here at all [that I am aware of], is that there is a signifcant difference in quality of stopping distance by altering one's OEM calipers from the evo 1 piston set up to a more substantial caliper......

I do believe that the very best set up for our CVO FXR2's and FXR3's would be the FXR4 front forks, with a fork truss/brace, with dual rotors and either PM or Brembo style aftermarket calipers.....and I wonder to what percentage the difference between this setup and the FXR2 and FXR3 front brake set up would be......would it be 18% or 20% or 25% we know that it would be at least at an absolute minimum of 12% but it must be greater than this logically speaking.....

Here is the other thing that comes to mind while discussing this topic, our FXR2's and FXR3's and FXR4's have the lowest ground clearance of the previous FXR's built during the 1982-1994 years....which means the lean angles are significantly reduced which of course keeps one from entering the corners to a certain degree [no pun intended lol] at excessive speeds anyway....at least from a 'cornering' perspective.....I realize this....so does this enter anyone's mind also in determining what would be the "best" when determining the type of "caliper" to actually use?  Yes I realize that braking encompasses much more than "flowing" through corners and the such...

I would assume that most of you are quite satisfied with your OEM braking set up since this hasn't been a topic of discussion for the most part.....

Any other ideas or thoughts on the matter?  What do you guys think or have you thought about it really at all?

Regards,

Tim

[FXR2evo99]

I'll be using the direct bolton (no bracket required) PM differential bore 4 or 6 piston front caliper, but I have a mag wheel. That caliper supposedly can't be used with spoke wheels though.

Howie....

You are correct, [not that I am an authority] I simply went through this process with a buddy that owns a FXR3 with the "thunderstar" mag wheel and he used a slightly different PM part # for his application because of the "mag" vs "spoke" wheel set up that I have on my FXR2.  You are also right in that because of the "clearance" issues that are non-existant with the mag wheel set up there indeed exists the option to choose between the 4 or 6 piston option for the front caliper....it was brought to my attention by the "tech" support at PM that they felt that the 4 piston actually was the better of the two choices.....unfortunately I can not articulate why this was felt as time has passed....perhaps if I memory served me correctly it had to do with a "less complicated" working mechanism, and who is to say if one were to 'officially" ask this of their tech support whether they would agree with the determination of that particular tech on that particular day.....but in either case Howie you are correct in that you have the choice between the 4 or 6 piston option.  As previously stated however I am not the "authority" of this topic merely a voice this spring that went through the modification.....

I might add after all the information was reviewed that my buddy did infact choose the 4 piston application for his FXR3.  I will also add that we both felt the caliper braking pads that the PM brakes arrived with did not meet either of our approval and PM did provide to us each a set of pads which were of a "sintered" material.  I mentioned this above ie: the part number, but remember that part number I mentioned was for my spoke wheel set up, I believe that the part number for the "sintered" material for the FXR3 is a slightly different part number.....checking wth PM tech support can confirm or deny this.....

Regards,

Tim

[omgtkk]

Tim,
I'm by no means an expert on brake systems, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once, so I'll give some thoughts. 
Of all the bikes I've owned, this FXR seems to take longer to stop than anything else.  That being said, This is also the only bike I've had that has a single disc front end and the only bike with a 21" tire.  I don't assume the braking system on my FXR is defective in any way, it's just a little weak compared to what I'm used to.  The new Brembo set-up on the current tour bikes is awesome.  It stops an 800 lb bike hard, but with very good modulation.  I have a rat bike that I rarely ride that is equipped with a single 4 piston PM brake in the front.  That's squeezing a chrome rotor and I'm not real impressed with it.  So there are a whole lot of variables here: number of discs, number of pistons, master cylinder bore, rotor composition and type of pads.  I was more or less just asking to see if I could make a cheap and quick upgrade and the answer seem to be 'no'.
Also, my intention with this FXR is to leave it as stock as possible, so switching out front ends isn't in the cards.  I know that it will never achieve 'collectible' status in my lifetime, but I'm pleased t own a very limited edition and want to keep it the way the factory built it.

[FXR2evo99]

I'm by no means an expert on brake systems, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once, so I'll give some thoughts.

But are you a "rewards" carrying card member.....membership has it's privleges.....

Stayed in Deadwood 2 different calender years at the Holiday Inn Express for $50.00 per nite....X 3 nites.

Now that's something to talk about.....and have you seen the Holiday Inn Express in Deadwood?  It's berry berry nice.......lol

and nope I am not a brake expert either......

[RedFXR2]

PM did provide to us each a set of pads which were of a "sintered" material. 

I'm no brake expert either, but I've had both my front and rear brake pads replaced with sintered brake pads from DP.  Putting them on and bleeding/flushing the mater cylinders brought about a noticeable improvement.  I can't compare mine to multiple piston PM calipers or multiple disc setups but the sintered pads did help.


http://www.dp-brakes.com/dp.php?load=profile

[110tHunDer]

I'm no brake expert either, but I've had both my front and rear brake pads replaced with sintered brake pads from DP.  Putting them on and bleeding/flushing the mater cylinders brought about a noticeable improvement.  I can't compare mine to multiple piston PM calipers or multiple disc setups but the sintered pads did help.


http://www.dp-brakes.com/dp.php?load=profile

Whoops!  It doesn't list any '99 FXR applications.   Are the part numbers DP900 (front) and DP905 (rear)?  What's the difference with the SDP900 (front)?  Aren't they all sintered?

http://www.dp-brakes.com/dp.php?load=harley_pad_search&level=4&model=FXR&cc=1340&year=1987-1994

[RedFXR2]

I don't remember part numbers but I think I ordered ones to fit a 1994 FXR.

If you notice, they list pads for a 1987-1999 FXLR, and they are DP900 and DP905.  As we all know, there wasn't a 1999 FXLR.

About the "S" designation, from the website, it appears that the "S" part numbers can handle sportbike type requirements.  To my knowledge, they are all sintered.  I would guess that the "S" models are slightly harder, a bit rougher on the rotor, and more heat resistant.

http://www.dp-brakes.com/dp.php?load=harley_pad_search&level=4&model=FXLR&cc=1340&year=1987-1999


http://www.dp-brakes.com/dp.php?load=brake_pads&replace=display&pad=3

[RedFXR2]

Was also told as an alternative to go to the auto parts store and purchase a brake light switch for a 1970 Ford Bronco.

Don't you just love those dealer parts guys?

I mean, it's one thing to insist that Dyna's and FXR's are the same, but to send folks out looking for something for a 1970 Ford Bronco??  This must set some kind of record.

Thank goodness for Sam, the parts guy at my local dealer.  He still has his 1992 FXLR.  I'll have to tell him this story.  He'll get a kick out of it.

[FXR2evo99]

I mean, it's one thing to insist that Dyna's and FXR's are the same, but to send folks out looking for something for a 1970 Ford Bronco??  This must set some kind of record.


yau we all know they use chivy parts maun......

[FXR2evo99]

Hey...I got nothin better to do till I get my bike outta the storage facility 

Blaine....

Yeah.....no kiddin....and since nearly 2,000,000 people will passing "close" by.....you could always quickly move to a far reaching busy corner and wave that switch and scream........I NEED CHIVY PARTS MAUN.....

 

[RedFXR2]

....as it turns out...a 1970 Ford Bronco Rear brake light switch will in fact work; only deal is it has to be the hydraulic style switch and he didn't tell me that...But it does work 

Unbelievable.   So heck, ask the guy for any other domestic auto parts replacements.  I'm sure they're a lot cheaper than the HD parts.

...Red has been posting on that thread (yes, me too)that gets folks blood boiling and he's forgotten about us down here  . Calling Red...Calling Red....Come back to earth Red 

Don't worry, I'm back to earth.  Some parts of this board truly are like another planet.  I stood in front of my mirror and swore that I would never again visit any pages here other than this one.  I tried to be objective, presenting both sides, showing that the nature of politics of both parties is to say whatever it takes to get favor long enough to get votes.  It's all about power, sadly.  All it got in return instead of reasonable discussion was barbed comments to the messenger.

I tell you, it's hard to have moderate, objective political beliefs in a land controlled by two extreme parties.

Now, back to CVO FXR topics and glad of it.

[Bullwinkle]

>> 2)  Replace the FXR2 forks with FXR4 forks and run two rotors with the "twin cam" styled 2 piston brake calipers which would also mean changing the front wheel.

Not necessarily.  I have an older FXR-SP and thought about putting on Dyna Sport cartridge forks for better handling.  I talked to several dealers about this and they all said that the -only- difference (at least on the 39mm front ends) between the pre- and post-2000 models was the location of the caliper mount bosses.

If that is accurate, then you can buy a post-2000 lower fork leg and newer caliper, bolt them on and go.  Just make sure your wheel end play is OK using the right spacers.

If this is inappropriate, please forgive me and move this or delete it:  I have two new Hawghalter four piston chrome calipers (right & left) for pre-1999 forks and they -will- work with spoke wheels, if anyone needs them.  HHI makes a set specifically for use with spoke wheels.

Bullwinkle
1999 FXR3
1993 FXR-SP

I just like FXRs, what can I say.

[FXR2evo99]

2)  Replace the FXR2 forks with FXR4 forks and run two rotors with the "twin cam" styled 2 piston brake calipers which would also mean changing the front wheel.

Not necessarily.

Bullwinkle, thanks for the correction 

Regards,

Tim

[Bullwinkle]

I'm fairly certain that the newer fork sliders will work on the older fork tubes and more particularly with the older wheels, but you might want to check with a good mechanic before you take the plunge.  I'll bet the folks at Hawghalters, Performance Machine, or Race Tech would know.

I'm not all that fired up with HD stealership mechanics.  I had one tell me one time that carb jets were special order and that HD did not sell them.  He said I had to find them at Drag Specialties dealers, etc.

Sigh....

BTW, aren't the Twinkie calipers four piston?


Bullwinkle

2)  Replace the FXR2 forks with FXR4 forks and run two rotors with the "twin cam" styled 2 piston brake calipers which would also mean changing the front wheel.

Not necessarily.

Bullwinkle, thanks for the correction 

Regards,

Tim

[fxr4mikey]

Here is the other thing that comes to mind while discussing this topic, our FXR2's and FXR3's and FXR4's have the lowest ground clearance of the previous FXR's built during the 1982-1994 years....which means the lean angles are significantly reduced which of course keeps one from entering the corners to a certain degree [no pun intended lol] at excessive speeds anyway....at least from a 'cornering' perspective.....I realize this....so does this enter anyone's mind also in determining what would be the "best" when determining the type of "caliper" to actually use?  Yes I realize that braking encompasses much more than "flowing" through corners and the such...

I would assume that most of you are quite satisfied with your OEM braking set up since this hasn't been a topic of discussion for the most part.....

Any other ideas or thoughts on the matter?  What do you guys think or have you thought about it really at all?

Regards,

Tim

While I've scraped the pegs flat on my bike (not bragging, just that sometimes I miss judged the curve) .. the only time that I have really noticed and felt that I needed more ground clearance on the FXR4 is in tight switch backs that dip/drop/descend in the switchback.   

This summer I was going a lil hot into a switch back (left then right) and no problem in the left, but then the road dropped down on the switch back to the right and I was over so far that I was dragging the mounting bracket for the exhaust system. The bottom of the bracket and the bottom of the front pipe are all scrapped up now.  While I was in the turn I could feel the bike becoming un-weighted, fortunately for me there was no car coming the other way. I got off the throttle a lil bit and I stood the bike up, crossed over the line, gave it a bit of throttle, laid it back down and got around the corner.  I can tell you this, my heart rate was quite elevated, and I was riding quite a bit slower for the next 15 miles to regain some composure......

As far as braking, the dual setup on the FXR4 is OUTSTANDING (IMHO).  The one draw back to it is that when running hot into a curve hard braking causes excessive nose dive on the bike.  I've been thinking about finding a change in the front end to reduce the nose dive while hard braking.  Stopping power, the bike has it, even with just the stock setup.

[FXR2evo99]

As far as braking, the dual setup on the FXR4 is OUTSTANDING (IMHO).  The one draw back to it is that when running hot into a curve hard braking causes excessive nose dive on the bike.  I've been thinking about finding a change in the front end to reduce the nose dive while hard braking.  Stopping power, the bike has it, even with just the stock setup.

Mikey....

Before you change your front end.....have you thought about changing your fork oil first, to say, Bel~Ray 20w and while 10 oz is the normal amount to put in perhaps putting in 10.5 oz in to see if you can help with that nose dive.....and if that doesn't work....then maybe some new progressive springs for $80.00 or so then back with the fork oil.....so far with this suggestion you would only be spending about $110.00 or so....and "less" of course if you discover that by simply altering your fork oil to 20w does the "trick".

Keep us posted.....

(I can't remember if you had or have already changed your fork oil) but I would certainly start there to see if a "solution" could be found.....I can tell you that my 2002 RKC doesn't "nose" dive with that huge front end on it and I have Bel~Ray 20W fork oil in those forks as well....granted, a RKC is not an FXR4, but the RKC is a very heavy front end and you can still put that bike into some curves....I bet Hoist will chime in here with the fork set up he is wanting to use....ummmm $1,100 or so...cha ching....lol

Remove old fork oil....put in 10.00oz to 11 oz of Bel~Ray 20w Fork Oil.  Personally I did mine this spring and put in 10 oz into each fork.  Of course this maintenance can be done easily by yourself and because you have "chrome" fork caps which are seen you might think about a special fork cap nut remover that has an o~ring on the inside to keep from scratching the fork caps...here is one you can get for around $24.00 shipped to you:

$21.50
  Part # 08-0139  HD FORK CAP SOCKET

http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/tools/fork_cap_nut_socket_for_h-d/

Motion Pro, Inc.
867 American Street
San Carlos, CA 94070
Tel: 650.594.9600   Fax: 650.594.9610
web: www.motionpro.com

Hours of Operation:
M-F 8am - 5pm PST

Jim's Tools makes one of these as well part# 2244

Regards,

Tim

[fxr4mikey]

As far as braking, the dual setup on the FXR4 is OUTSTANDING (IMHO).  The one draw back to it is that when running hot into a curve hard braking causes excessive nose dive on the bike.  I've been thinking about finding a change in the front end to reduce the nose dive while hard braking.  Stopping power, the bike has it, even with just the stock setup.

Mikey....

Before you change your front end.....have you thought about changing your fork oil first, to say, Bel~Ray 20w and while 10 oz is the normal amount to put in perhaps putting in 10.5 oz in to see if you can help with that nose dive.....and if that doesn't work....then maybe some new progressive springs for $80.00 or so then back with the fork oil.....so far with this suggestion you would only be spending about $110.00 or so....and "less" of course if you discover that by simply altering your fork oil to 20w does the "trick".

Keep us posted.....

(I can't remember if you had or have already changed your fork oil) but I would certainly start there to see if a "solution" could be found.....I can tell you that my 2002 RKC doesn't "nose" dive with that huge front end on it and I have Bel~Ray 20W fork oil in those forks as well....granted, a RKC is not an FXR4, but the RKC is a very heavy front end and you can still put that bike into some curves....I bet Hoist will chime in here with the fork set up he is wanting to use....ummmm $1,100 or so...cha ching....lol

Remove old fork oil....put in 10.00oz to 11 oz of Bel~Ray 20w Fork Oil.  Personally I did mine this spring and put in 10 oz into each fork.  Of course this maintenance can be done easily by yourself and because you have "chrome" fork caps which are seen you might think about a special fork cap nut remover that has an o~ring on the inside to keep from scratching the fork caps...here is one you can get for around $24.00 shipped to you:

$21.50
  Part # 08-0139  HD FORK CAP SOCKET

http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/tools/fork_cap_nut_socket_for_h-d/

Motion Pro, Inc.
867 American Street
San Carlos, CA 94070
Tel: 650.594.9600   Fax: 650.594.9610
web: www.motionpro.com

Hours of Operation:
M-F 8am - 5pm PST

Jim's Tools makes one of these as well part# 2244

Regards,

Tim

Tim,
Haven't changed the fork oil, but will this Dec. when I do the build.  I'll use your recommendation.  I have considered putting in progressive (brand name) wound springs. Then I was told that the FXR4 already has progressive wound springs in the forks  ??  Can anyone confirm the stock internal components of the front forks ?

Thanks again for your help !!

Mikey

[Hoist!]

I agree it's a lil more responsive with the heavier oil, and use heavier PJ1 Fork Oil. But the capacity is 9.2 oz each. I don't overfill. It can cause leaks at the fork seals. Traxxion AK-20's of course, is eventually the REAL solution!

Hoist!