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CVO Technical => Intake/Exhaust/ECM => Topic started by: johnmowcop on July 02, 2013, 05:00:46 PM
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I am suffering with a hot inner leg, right side. The bike is 2011 ultra cvo road glide. Standard except for monster ovals. Anyone with ideas would be appreciated. :-\
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I am suffering with a hot inner leg, right side. The bike is 2011 ultra cvo road glide. Standard except for monster ovals. Anyone with ideas would be appreciated. :-\
It's not legal, but removing that catalytic converter sitting near your right foot and calf might make a pretty significant difference. You would need to have the bike tuned as well.
Jerry
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Call Steve George at Fullsac and talk with him. I would get his X-Pipe "D" and the TTS MasterTune at a minimum. He will provide a calibration file you can download to your ECM using the TTS MasterTune. You can then further refine the calibration using the MasterTune or have it pro tuned.
He also makes excellent baffles in varying sizes for the CVO cans, but since you already have Monster Ovals I would talk with him about what to do with those - leave them as-is or retrofit them with his CVO PowerCore baffles...
Ken
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I had a 2011 rio red ultra road glide cvo ran hot from day one. Traded to a 2012 maple and black cvo road glide without LOWERS night and day difference. Lowers are your problem no air to front cylinder. Take off and try cost nothing.
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I had a 2011 rio red ultra road glide cvo ran hot from day one. Traded to a 2012 maple and black cvo road glide without LOWERS night and day difference. Lowers are your problem no air to front cylinder. Take off and try cost nothing.
That may relieve the issue a bit... But it does nothing to fix the reason why all of that heat is being generated - which is due to the cat, the restrictive exhaust, the SE 255 cams, and the very lean ECM calibration that comes stock to please the EPA...
Ken
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I had a 2011 rio red ultra road glide cvo ran hot from day one. Traded to a 2012 maple and black cvo road glide without LOWERS night and day difference. Lowers are your problem no air to front cylinder. Take off and try cost nothing.
While I agree, lower due contribute to the heat, removing them is not the solution. I have a 12 CVO Roadglide and 13 CVO King. The road glide has no lowers during the summer, the king has lowers year round. Both have a fullsac head pipe to lower the temp, and the temperatures are very close between the two bikes. Yes in stop and go the King is about 10 to 15 degrees hotter due to the lowers or, the motor due to it having a lot more compression, and cam.
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Removing the Cat is the only fix. Can be done for free if you have a welder.....or a buddy that does.
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Per the manual, removing the lowers may make you cooler, but it doesn't make the engine run cooler. They're designed to channel more air to the front cylinder.
I removed my stock headpipe and crossover, and replaced them with a ceramic coated Jackpot header and crossover. I've remapped the ECM with a PowerVision tuner. The bike runs smoother, stronger, and cooler. Others have had luck with Fullsac components, and have reported similar results.
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Fullsac.
Got DX pipe , and lowers on my RG , no more problem!!!!!!! or just remove the cat from yours.
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Fullsac.
Got DX pipe , and lowers on my RG , no more problem!!!!!!! or just remove the cat from yours.
Thank's everyone for the responses. Just a couple of questions.
1.0 Even though the model is the 2011 cvo road glide ultra I bought it new last September 2012, so still a lot of guarantee (warranty) left. So, I presume if I remove the 'Cat' the guarantee is effected.
2.0 If I do remove the 'Cat' will I have to fit a stage 1 fuel map or similar because of the clearer breathing.
3.0 Thinking maybe if I took it to the dealers they will fit straight thro' headers and fuel pack, is this a good idea?
Regards
JohnT :)
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Voltage regulator went out on my 12 when traveling. Dealer in MI replaced my regulator under warranty no questions, and my bike has a Fullsac head pipe, (no Cat) and his 2.25 baffles and TTS tuner. Also have had the clutch master Cylinder replaced under warranty, and the compensator.
Most dealer will not say much about a head pipe, mufflers and tune. More than that and its a crap shoot.
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Most dealer will not say much about a head pipe, mufflers and tune. More than that and its a crap shoot.
It pays to have a good relationship with your local dealer(s). I've decided I don't need more than a Stage 1 primarily because I don't want the hassle of if/when something breaks, having to argue about aftermarket parts.
I also think (for me, not for anyone else) that it's just silly spending a bunch of money to add 10 horsepower to a 900 pound touring bike that'll still get its clock cleaned by a V6 Accord. I have a go-fast bike in the garage....Arguably one of the most expensive Softails on the planet....and it'll get flat embarrassed by anyone on a 600cc sportbike. I could have spent what I spent on the engine of that bike on a used Ninja and gone way faster....Oh well....
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Thank's everyone for the responses. Just a couple of questions.
1.0 Even though the model is the 2011 cvo road glide ultra I bought it new last September 2012, so still a lot of guarantee (warranty) left. So, I presume if I remove the 'Cat' the guarantee is effected.
2.0 If I do remove the 'Cat' will I have to fit a stage 1 fuel map or similar because of the clearer breathing.
3.0 Thinking maybe if I took it to the dealers they will fit straight thro' headers and fuel pack, is this a good idea?
Regards
JohnT :)
John, it's hard for someone in the USA to give you a good answer to at least some of those questions. In the USA the removal of the catalyst and retuning would indeed void the emissions system warranty, and at least in theory Harley could choose to void the powertrain portion of the warranty as well. It's not a definite yes or no however. In Britain I would guess you would need to check with the importer, since any warranty would actually be offered through them, and emission laws and rules would of course be different as well.
As for a Fuel Pak, you'd be much better off with a real tuning solution. Check around your area and see if there are any qualified tuners, then ask them about which devices and software packages they recommend.
Jerry
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Jerry and all thank's very much for the advice.
Jerry, by a real tuning solution do you mean a Power Commander or similar, or something else?
JohnT
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Jerry and all thank's very much for the advice.
Jerry, by a real tuning solution do you mean a Power Commander or similar, or something else?
JohnT
I think with a late model Harley with closed loop engine management you would be better served with one of the flash tuners that is used to reprogram the stock ECM, as opposed to any of the add-on or piggyback devices like the older Power Commanders or especially the boxes like the Fuel Pak. Some choices over here are the TTS MasterTune, the SEPST (Screamin' Eagle Pro Super Tuner) from Harley, the Power Vision from the Power Commander folks, etc. I'm not sure what is readily available in the UK. And of course the first thing would be to find a fully competent person to do the tuning, then ask him which tuning package he prefers to use. If the UK is anything like the US, finding the fully competent person to do the tuning will be the toughest part of the entire undertaking.
Jerry
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I think with a late model Harley with closed loop engine management you would be better served with one of the flash tuners that is used to reprogram the stock ECM, as opposed to any of the add-on or piggyback devices like the older Power Commanders or especially the boxes like the Fuel Pak. Some choices over here are the TTS MasterTune, the SEPST (Screamin' Eagle Pro Super Tuner) from Harley, the Power Vision from the Power Commander folks, etc. I'm not sure what is readily available in the UK. And of course the first thing would be to find a fully competent person to do the tuning, then ask him which tuning package he prefers to use. If the UK is anything like the US, finding the fully competent person to do the tuning will be the toughest part of the entire undertaking.
great advice, couldn't agree more with all of that. About the only other flash tuner option that was missed that is along the same lines as the one's mentioned is the Direct Link system. It's starting to gain some popularity, and I think there are some tuners in the UK using that system (including the one linked below).
here's a tuner in the UK that I think would be worth a talk to:
http://www.powerglides.co.uk/tuning_efi.php
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Agree on the above comments. I had the same bike and suffered from a very hot right leg as well. Ditching the cats or getting a new headpipe will help, as will a good tune - these bikes run lean from the factory to meet emissions standards. If you don't remove the lowers, try opening the vent(s) to let more air flow through.
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2013 cvo RK
I put the fullsac dx pipe,2"1/4 baffles w/screens wrapped,.30 head gasket, andrews 54 cam help some but still yet burns the chit out of my leg if I try and use floor boards so I just use crash bar pegs. Find me another speaker options lowers are gone 8)
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Per the manual, removing the lowers may make you cooler, but it doesn't make the engine run cooler. They're designed to channel more air to the front cylinder.
I removed my stock headpipe and crossover, and replaced them with a ceramic coated Jackpot header and crossover. I've remapped the ECM with a PowerVision tuner. The bike runs smoother, stronger, and cooler. Others have had luck with Fullsac components, and have reported similar results.
The engine will run cooler with the lowers on, I tested it back to back on my RGU, and the engine temp at cruise was 20 degrees cooler with the lowers on according to Power Vision.
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That's what I always thought. Engine would be cooler but not your legs. Great real world info.
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There are roughly a gazzillion posts on this site complaining about heat on the riders legs. And they aren't all just about 110's, there were plenty from the 103 days as well. Excuse my lack of tact, but I have to ask just what the heck people expected when they bought a big air cooled V-Twin dinosaur with a totally exposed engine and exhaust system sitting within inches of certain tender parts of their bodies. :nixweiss:
Here's an experiment for those who think this heat thing is somehow unique to their motorcycle. Take your car/truck/SUV etc for a nice 20 mile drive on a hot day. Pull off the road, pop the hood, and crawl up on top of the engine and sit there for as long as you can. Come back and let us know how it went. OR, instead of sitting on top of the engine just slide under the vehicle and cozy up to the catalytic converter.
Now that you've proved that those other vehicles are also hot enough to cause pain and severe burns, take a look at the one major difference between them and your Harley. The auto folks isolate and insulate the people from the heat sources. Harley prefers to put no barrier at all between the rider and the heat sources. DUH! It's all about style and tradition guys. You could have bought a motorcycle with an enclosed engine and well shielded exhaust system, but you chose the one with the hot stuff nearly touching you because it looks "cool". You make your choice and you get to live with the results, and there is no magic wand. You could try aluminum foil heat shields for your pant legs though.
Jerry ;)
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Again thanks all for the comments.
Mayor - I have sent a message to the company you came up with, thanks.
Jerry - again thanks for your comments, but is the medication wearing off ;D? Don't get over excited it's only a discussion. I knew my leg would be hot, I have had six Electraglide,s before this, always got hot legs, less so when they put on the plastic deflectors, but this is something else. I reckon 100 miles with a basting spoon in my hand I could get the leg to medium-well done, ready to eat. :)
Regards
JohnT
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Again thanks all for the comments.
Mayor - I have sent a message to the company you came up with, thanks.
Jerry - again thanks for your comments, but is the medication wearing off ;D? Don't get over excited it's only a discussion. I knew my leg would be hot, I have had six Electraglide,s before this, always got hot legs, less so when they put on the plastic deflectors, but this is something else. I reckon 100 miles with a basting spoon in my hand I could get the leg to medium-well done, ready to eat. :)
Regards
JohnT
;D Yes John, the meds wore off. If you hang around for awhile you'll see they wear off quite often actually. My sense of humor has been described by many over the years as a bit "different", so I try to tip people off by using that little wink emoticon after my name.
Btw, I've seen people cook food under the hoods of cars and trucks before, but you may be the first to do so on a motorcycle. Leg of John doesn't invoke the same response as leg of lamb however.
Jerry
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Had a very prompt and good reply from Fulsac.
Excuse the ignorance, what is a TTS and cables. I assume its software of some kind to remap the existing ecm. If it is, should the dealer be able to do this without special tackle?
JohnT
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It is the tuner that's lets you can your bikes map around such as spark fuel etc. I just bought the sleeper kit from steve and had installed best money I spent on the bike thus far much better ride now :bananarock:
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Had a very prompt and good reply from Fulsac.
Excuse the ignorance, what is a TTS and cables. I assume its software of some kind to remap the existing ecm. If it is, should the dealer be able to do this without special tackle?
JohnT
The TTS MasterTune is a flash tuning device and software that enables adjustment of the various control values and tables in the ECM, to make the engine run better. Many of us on here use it. Fullsac is a dealer for the TTS MasterTune, and they provide customized TTS calibration files with the Fullsac setup you get. The calibration file provided by Fullsac can be easily flashed into your ECM using the TTS MasterTune.
You need a set of TTS cables to connect the MasterTune to your ECM data connector and to your laptop computer, and you need to install the TTS software (MasterTune, and optionally DataMaster and VTune) on your laptop.
You can learn about the TTS MasterTune product at http://mastertune.net/harleydavidson.htm (http://mastertune.net/harleydavidson.htm)
Ken
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Sorry to keep harping on about this, just ignore me if it's boring.
Should'nt the HD dealer have the ability to do this reprogramming of the ecu. It seems a lot of dollars to re-programme the ecu once only, it being unlikely you would need to do it again during ownership of the bike unless something went wrong with the ecu.
Or is it because HD do not provide the tech knowledge to the trained mechanics to mess around reprogramming std ecu's.
I presume the stage 1 fuel packs they sell for earlier bikes don't work with this system.
I appreciate you fellas have probably moved with the times better than me, so some of my questions may appear naive and old hat, sorry about that. I did move from Magnetos to Coils a lot easier than I am finding this stuff and even if I say so myself I wasn't bad with monoblocs. I did however fail miserably with a Wal Philips fuel injector (bought brand new I might add)!
Really what I am getting at is how come the dealer can't do this, why do we have to buy the software for a one off job.
JohnT
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Sorry to keep harping on about this, just ignore me if it's boring.
Should'nt the HD dealer have the ability to do this reprogramming of the ecu. It seems a lot of dollars to re-programme the ecu once only, it being unlikely you would need to do it again during ownership of the bike unless something went wrong with the ecu.
Or is it because HD do not provide the tech knowledge to the trained mechanics to mess around reprogramming std ecu's.
I presume the stage 1 fuel packs they sell for earlier bikes don't work with this system.
I appreciate you fellas have probably moved with the times better than me, so some of my questions may appear naive and old hat, sorry about that. I did move from Magnetos to Coils a lot easier than I am finding this stuff and even if I say so myself I wasn't bad with monoblocs. I did however fail miserably with a Wal Philips fuel injector (bought brand new I might add)!
Really what I am getting at is how come the dealer can't do this, why do we have to buy the software for a one off job.
JohnT
All emission controlled vehicles these days have tamper resistant engine management systems, and the guys at the dealership can't go into the actual calibration files and alter anything that affects emissions using just the normal diagnostic equipment they have. The only thing they can do is to download street legal calibrations that Harley makes available to work with their street legal kits they sell. To otherwise modify those files they have to use an illegal tuning package, like the SEPST or TTS or PowerVison or whatever. The operative word here is illegal. If Harley was to make it easy for their dealers to change the emission related settings using standard Harley service tools, Harley would be subject to massive fines and penalties in the USA. I assume the same is true in the UK.
Jerry
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Thank's Jerry.
Succinctly put, and you didn't loose your temper (although I did detect an hint of exasperation). I believe at long last I have the picture.
Thanks Fellas. I have given a good man at the local HD dealers this threads address, looking forward to his comments.
Again Thank you.
JohnT
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It seems a lot of dollars to re-programme the ecu once only,
Just to make sure you have the clear picture John. The money for the TTS Mastertune allows an unlimited number of re programmings.
Yes, it will only program one bike, but as many times as you like if needed to match up with different engine mods, exhaust changes ect.
Preferences always seem to change with these bikes.
By the way, Jerry is being pretty calm. Just don't ask about warranties or any of that kind of stuff. :nervous:
Steve
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Just to make sure you have the clear picture John. The money for the TTS Mastertune allows an unlimited number of re programmings.
Yes, it will only program one bike, but as many times as you like if needed to match up with different engine mods, exhaust changes ect.
Preferences always seem to change with these bikes.
in addition to all of the above, you also gain the ability to view & clear trouble codes (through the Data Master program), record actual operating data (through the DataMaster program), and adjust the calibration in a manner to be more in line with the collected data from your specific motorcycle using the Vtune program (closed loop capable bikes only). So for the money you get not only the hardware (vehicle communication interface) and the calibration tuning software (Mastertune) to make the change, but also a very robust set of tuning software programs that help you make informed changes.
A dealer may have a canned map that they can flash for a smaller one time fee, but that cost can be there again, and again, if you have the need to change the flash through up grades. The other issue with a one time flash is there is no way to make a modification to that if one problem area exists as the result of that flash not exactly being perfect for your motorcycle. In that case, you would be at the mercy of another fee. A tuning system like Mastertune allows for unlimited flashes to the bike that is married to the VCI. If you flash a calibration that the bike doesn't agree with, you just flash a new calibration.
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Seems I am always learning something from this group. Wasn't aware the TTS also could read fault codes. Guess I might have found that out when I get my stuff from Fullsac, which won't be for a bit too damn hot here for me for riding much. Learning and entertainment all at the same time.