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[PBSTN]

What do you mean?

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I've only owned 1 Harley with a warranty. And whenever I had an issue. It was like pulling teeth getting it resolved. So to spend big money. For a new bike with a warranty. I'm just not interested. Jmo.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Harley CEO and president Matt Levatich struck a hopeful tone in the company's earnings release.
"We see 2020 as the pivotal year in the transformation of Harley-Davidson. This year we will broaden the reach of our brand and build more committed riders as we enter new and growing segments in motorcycling and eBicycles," Levatich said. "More and easier access to two-wheeled freedom on a Harley is well underway."


I thought that last line was a hoot...yes, there may be access but the line to purchase is dwindling and costs to "play" going up.

And as far as "build more committed riders", how much more committed will the "new" commitments be than current Harley ownership?  The current folks have put up with inferior product for years.  Does he think these newbies will put up with the same issues for as long as we have? 

WOW...

I do not know, but it seems to me, Harley's business model of cutting content of the bike, while raising cost of the bike, and ever declining quality is what is driving us highly committed riders away form the Harley brand, or at least away form the high profit CVO.  Sad to say, but when you have new front rotors put on your bike three times in 20K miles, where is the quality?  That's not even a full year riding.  Same bike now needs new speedometer, new left hand side control module.  Has already had seat replaced for excessive wear, shift levers replaced because all the black came off them, a saddle bag lid replaced because paint was flaking off.  This is a 40K bike, with very poor quality and workmanship.

Harleys problem is two fold, their poor quality which has gotten worse in the past ten years, and now the Harley rider has viable choices in the market with out getting on a Honda.

[iski]

This year we will broaden the reach of our brand and build more committed riders as we enter new and growing segments in motorcycling and eBicycles," Levatich said. "More and easier access to two-wheeled freedom on a Harley is well underway."

Or......

"We started as a bicycle with a motor company, and under my watch we will finish as a bicycle with an e-motor company.  Also - Freedom."

[J.D.]

The decision to develop another air cooled vtwin (TC platform limped along waaaaay to long) and not a modern water cooled drivetrain is a bad decision IMHO.  They had a great opportunity to use the VRod-based ohc engine in a bagger but instead killed it.  Seemed to be a decent and reliable platform.  Instead the unreliable TC engine was replaced with the arguably unreliable M8.  All while competition (e.g. Honda and BMW) developed relatively powerful and reliable drivetrains.

[timo482]

i really like my harley, and the three harleys before it, [my grand had a knuckle and a pan, dad a string of vespas] but im at the age where buying new is less than likely.  encouraging news? my 30 something neighbor just bought a new super glide [have not seen it but i think that is what it is] and my youngest boy just got a sportster, wants to learn to ride before buying a big twin.   however - 00 rear cam bearing, then 07 cranks, now m8 oil pumps.. combined with continuous dealer denial. [the neighbor bought max warranty and will ride stock, he has a shovel to hot rod on] the troubles make every person i know reluctant to buy new, let somebody else deal with the problems and then buy used.   the problem with this is that sales are half of what they were in 06.. so its a shrinking market [old farts like me] and the young guys have a price limit under 20  for a big twin, and under 10 for anything else.. so...  next worry is will the number of dealers shrink, i get most of my parts from the dealer, and i get tires and mounting from the dealer.. if they start going away that will really bum me out.

[Cvostu]

Dave. Just had my front rotors replaced on the mako jusr recently as well. Only 6k miles. New front tire sensor too. And the whole suspension upgraded cause the stock set up was so bad. On this kind of bike at this price it should be much better as workmanship and quality goes. Kids today don't seem to be riding much. They like Uber and cell phones. For those of us that are still buying, HD should be giving us a much better product.   Just my. 02.....Stuart..

[FLSTFI Dave]

Staurt,

You are 100% correct.  Rotor failure is unacceptable, I understand an occasional failure.  Like one on your or my bike, and no more on the other bike.  But 3 on mine in 20K miles, plus one on yours and I know two other 19 CVO road glides with rotor failure.

My big issue is quality, it has been going down since 09, and going down much faster since 17 for my experience with a 15, 17, 18 and 19 CVO.

Guess HD believes most will never have enough miles put on in the first two years of ownership for the lack of quality to bite them.  I find out quality as mine see over 20K the first year.

[J.D.]

I really think that is a big part of the Harley strategy - most owners ride very few miles and won't see the problems while under warranty.

[Cvostu]

On the rotors issue.   How can they warp so easily now.  I've had bikes with 75k miles and never had a problem.  My 16 has 40 k and still on the original rotors.  What's changed???    Stuart.

[J.D.]

Rotors will easily warp if the friction surface is not properly heat treated, or if they get overheated.  Overheating can be caused by being undersized for the application or too aggressive of a pad compound.

[92fxsts]

A side note:  Has anyone noticed that the MoCo has revamped their website and the CVO models are no longer "stand alone" models?  They are bunched in with the touring line.

CVOs haven't been "stand alone" for a number of years.  Early model years were individually assembled in a separate building by a small dedicated team.  Now days CVO's are just a bunch of accessories that are assembled on the same line as all the other big twins.  There's nothing premium about them other than the price tag.

[mark]

On the rotors issue.   How can they warp so easily now.  I've had bikes with 75k miles and never had a problem.  My 16 has 40 k and still on the original rotors.  What's changed???    Stuart.

My guess would be: 1) HD found a cheaper source for rotors, or 2) HD is using the same source, but the quality has gone downhill, either because HD wanted a less expensive rotor or the rotor manufacturer tried to increase its profits by making a cheaper rotor.

[grc]

On the rotors issue.   How can they warp so easily now.  I've had bikes with 75k miles and never had a problem.  My 16 has 40 k and still on the original rotors.  What's changed???    Stuart.

The single largest contributor IMHO is the purchasing department.  When you sacrifice quality for low price, you get what you pay for.  If you have reason to replace your automotive rotors and don't spring for the OEM parts, you will see the same thing.  Parts that used to be sourced in the USA were resourced to Mexico, and now much of the aftermarket stuff comes from China.  It's a never ending cycle of searching for cheaper and cheaper sources to boost executive compensation and shareholder "value", and quality / customer satisfaction is now on the bottom of the priority list.  I made the mistake of going with cheap aftermarket rotors on an old (over ten years) Escape a few years back.  The vehicle didn't get driven all that often in the summer, and those wonderful rotors turned to a pile of rust the first year.

It also doesn't help when they change the design of the Harley rotors used on the CVO's to a minimalist approach, eliminating the carrier structure and mass when they bolt the rotors to the wheel spokes rather than the hub.  They've had increased warping ever since that change was made, some caused by the rotors and some by the mounting surface on those wheels.

Notice if you will how all that "cost cutting" at Harley has reduced quality and reliability, reduced customer satisfaction, and didn't cause the price to drop at all.  In fact, the prices have continued to climb even as the bikes have been decontented and cheapened.  They absolutely do not care about the customers, and once again IMHO they really haven't cared for a long time.

Jerry

[Cvostu]

Gotcha Jerry.  But wouldn't you think it would be a great cost savings to HD if they made a good quality part and it lasted??? Look at all those free replacement rotors and the labor they wouldn't have to give away.  The poor quality just doesn't make sense. Stuart.

[dayne66]

Gotcha Jerry.  But wouldn't you think it would be a great cost savings to HD if they made a good quality part and it lasted??? Look at all those free replacement rotors and the labor they wouldn't have to give away.  The poor quality just doesn't make sense. Stuart.

That would require Harley to have some foresight .....so, that won't happen!