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[WildClyde]

Notice if you will how, all that "cost cutting" at Harley has reduced quality and reliability, reduced customer satisfaction, and didn't cause the price to drop at all.  In fact, the prices have continued to climb even as the bikes have been de-contented and cheapened.  They absolutely do not care about the customers, and once again IMHO they really haven't cared for a long time.

Amen Jerry, Amen...

[grc]

Gotcha Jerry.  But wouldn't you think it would be a great cost savings to HD if they made a good quality part and it lasted??? Look at all those free replacement rotors and the labor they wouldn't have to give away.  The poor quality just doesn't make sense. Stuart.

If we were running the company Stu we would probably see the wisdom of better quality parts and engineering which would reduce warranty costs and improve customer satisfaction.  Unfortunately the people running Harley for the past two or three decades took the opposite approach, banking on the majority of their customers to not put enough miles on their bikes in the first two years to encounter all those warranty claims.  It's called short term thinking, and it's become the norm so far this century.  The CEO's and top executives do whatever it takes to make a personal killing in the short term, then leave a mess for the next guy while they sit back counting their money.

Jerry

[Cvostu]

I hear you Jerry loud and clear. With the decline of new younger riders and Indian or other better quality competitors arriving, HD will surely have their hands full. Maybe one day they will get it. If they don't, they shouldn't be surprised when they see the results. Stuart. 

[FLSTFI Dave]

On the rotors issue.   How can they warp so easily now.  I've had bikes with 75k miles and never had a problem.  My 16 has 40 k and still on the original rotors.  What's changed???    Stuart.

Seems something changed in the manufacturing process of the rotors.  This is my 7th CVO, the 09, 12, and 15 all went over 45K miles with no rotor issues.  The 13 is over 27K miles no rotor issues.  The 17 had 22K mile and the 18 24K miles with no rotor issues.  The 19 is on its 3rd set of rotors in 19,326 miles.

I have also noticed poorer quality on other items on the 19.  The seat looked like it had 50K miles on it at 12000 miles.  In fact on the claim for it we sent a picture of my 18 with 28K on it and my 19 with 12K.  The seat on the 18 had no wear.

Not only are they removing items from the bikes to save corporate money, they are reducing quality of materials. 

Really not a good business model, not even for investors.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Gotcha Jerry.  But wouldn't you think it would be a great cost savings to HD if they made a good quality part and it lasted??? Look at all those free replacement rotors and the labor they wouldn't have to give away.  The poor quality just doesn't make sense. Stuart.

As I have said and some one else in the Thread, Harley figures for the few high milage riders its worth the trade off.  So on the rotors if say only 15% of the bikes see more than 3500 miles a year, those are the only rotors they will be replacing under warranty.  But they saved 25% in cost on the new cheaper rotors, its a net savings of 10%.

Think of the twin cam  110 motor.  Lifter failure is very very common some where over 20K miles.  How many bike see 20K miles in less then 2 years?  Not many, so it was not cost effective to fix the issue.  A friends 14 CVO which was built after the new lifter that claimed to solve the issue, had his lifter go out while we were in WA, with 21K on the bike at a year old.  Another friend had lifer go out an motor replaced at 36K on has 15 CVO.  I had lifters go out at 44K on my 15 and engine replaced under warranty.

Yet I see 15 CVO on the floor for sale with 18K miles or so.  So, not fixing was cheaper for HD.

Sad to say their business model is make it as cheap as possible, but last long enough that the issues do not show up until after warranty for 85% of the riders.

[mark]

Now, I’m sure every decision at HD is based on how it impacts stock performance, not quality, customer satisfaction, etc.  If you’re under the gun to show a profit, and you can’t sell more motorcycles, then you’ve got to make them cheaper, or start clearing out your office.  I noticed the downturn seemed to start around ‘04 and got worse year after year.

[Cvostu]

Really sucks. It's all about the mighty $$. They're finding out that these dumbass decisions are showing up on paper.  Sad.            Stuart.

[iski]

HOG stock price history from January 1990 through January 2020

[Cvostu]

Speaking of 110s and lifters.  I have 36k on the 2016.    I better have them replaced huh??  Not ready for a failure at this stage of my life.  Is it OK that to have the dealer do it?? 

[J.D.]

Most people would recommend swapping out the lifters every 20-25k as preventive maintenance.

[ultrafxr]

Speaking of 110s and lifters.  I have 36k on the 2016.    I better have them replaced huh??  Not ready for a failure at this stage of my life.  Is it OK that to have the dealer do it?? 

I would definitely replace them as a preventative measure for sure if you don't have an ESP.  And I would replace them with the S&S lifter and replace the cam bearings with the Torrington style full complement bearing.

Now if you do have an ESP and still want to replace them on your dime I  think you should stick with the Harley lifters and have a dealer or an indy that the ESP administrator approves do the work.  Or with the ESP you could just wait and see . . . kind of depending on how long you plan to keep the bike. 

I had lifter failure twice each on two different 110" CVOs and the interval was from a low of 22k to a high of almost 50k before the failures so there is really no good way to judge just how long they will last until failure.  Friend has a 2010 CVO Ultra with over 60k and just changed out his as he became concerned he was living on borrowed time.

[Cvostu]

I'm thinking the same thing.  Borrowed time for sure.  I still have the ESP.  Do I have to wait for a failure to have them changed under the ESP?? Or do I just go get it taken care of on my own.    That is my question of the moment. 🤔. Stuart

[fastfreddy]

stu, if was me, I would just do it myself and nobody would need to know otherwise. im getting ready to do mine for the second time

[Cvostu]

That sounds like the most practical thing to do.  Getting stuck or stranded to me just doesn't make sense.  Lifters push rods and most likely cam bearings should do it I hope.  Stuart.   

[Texas 103]

Harley stock price was 36.61 a year ago today.  Today's stock price is 34.86.  S&P is up 24%, same time frame.  Harley stock - a reflection of how the company is doing - is sucking hind tit.

Might be a good time to Short HD...