Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[smkymtnboy]

  well i guess what do we know anyway moco has only survived 105 yrs.

[tazmun]

 well i guess what do we know anyway moco has only survived 105 yrs.

I do believe it's now 107 years, but who's counting. The word survive has different
meanings too. Up until the mid 90's when it took off, it was not that big, poor quality etc.
It needed help from the government in the seventies, almost went under with AMF.
I can't remember why they sold out to AMF, but that was a cluster.
I guess what I'm saying is, we (MOCO) need to change with the times.
I'll bet none of us would like driving cars made in the 40's thru 70's everyday?
Look at GM, took a long time but I guess now they get the message.

[49445CVO]

It's hard to imagine any governmental agency choosing another countries product over an American one - especially with an American law enforcement agency, but law enforcement agencies do it all the time with no uproar or protest when they purchase their firearms (Glock's and Sig's and H&K's).

I may not like it too, but there's nothing more uniquely American than capitalism - you make a 'better' product and sell it at a better price, you win.

Just a shame that it appears that HD doesn't use resources like this board to drive it's R&D - couldn't think of a better more knowledgeable group of people to give practical, real-world suggestions on how to improve the product line. After all, we're the target customers - give us what we want and we'll buy it all day long.

Oh I think the MOCO is watching ( http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=44876.0 ) But they are not gonna answer.

[49445CVO]

I do believe it's now 107 years, but who's counting. The word survive has different
meanings too. Up until the mid 90's when it took off, it was not that big, poor quality etc.
It needed help from the government in the seventies, almost went under with AMF.
I can't remember why they sold out to AMF, but that was a cluster.
I guess what I'm saying is, we (MOCO) need to change with the times.
I'll bet none of us would like driving cars made in the 40's thru 70's everyday?
Look at GM, took a long time but I guess now they get the message.

It takes people like us with passion and compassion of the product that helps or makes it survive.

[faceracer]

I don't believe the LAPD cares one bit about where the bikes come from. They have to pass a performance test and then price and resale are taken into account! I know that resale helped Harley beat out Kawasaki in the 90's. Harley better get there ducks in a row because however ugly the BMW is IMO I believe it it a fine machine like a swiss watch!!!! Harley will need to get on there A game to beat this machine! I don't think a fat tire bike Will ever be a police bike. They will have to rethink the V-rod to make it a police bike, But why not build a special model geared towards the police market. There is a world wide market for these after all!!!!!!!

[nidan]

I saw a special on the CHP school and thier bike testing protocol, as much as I love HD's it's really not a big suprise.
The stock HD's aren't really in the same handling category.  It would be nice if HD would produce a sport touring bike with better handling and performance out the door for a reasonable price. The technology exists , but from thier perspective , not the market.

[RedDevil]

Ah the good old days, when it was just Supply and Demand driving the market.  


Think of the daily usages for police bikes and you can see that they are used alot in urban areas with stop and go traffic, they also idle alot. As we all know not the ideal conditions for an air cooled V-Twin.
Police use is better served by a water cooled and even shaft drive bike with less maintenance since they are ridden hard.

I remember articles and even a thread on this site a couple of years ago about lawsuits against Harley for high speed wobbles on the Electraglides and officers getting hurt. Maybe the agencies were looking for a safer bike for their officers?

To be perfectly honest, I don't think it had anything to do with the bikes themselves.  The statement that watercooled bikes are probably better for sustained idling and low speed work is valid, however, the R series BMW's are air/oil cooled horizontal twins.  They do have the benefit of a shaft drive, but when that shaft has problems, it's more expensive to fix then a belt drive.  

I think the think to look at was convenience...the article stated that the Beemers were, up front, more expensive than the HD's, so there's no cost savings there.  Service prices on a Beemer are the same, if not higher than service on an HD, so there's no savings there.  Reliability, the Beemer's probably got the older HD's beaten.  Here's where the contract was made:  BMW is allowing LAPD to do their own minor maintenance on the bikes without voiding the factory warranty, as long as the tech are certified to work on Beemers.  So they don't have to take the bikes into the dealer to pay for routine maintenance on the bikes...BIG savings over the life of the bike...that, in a nutshell, is what I believe did the MoCo in on this.  Had they offered the same deal, LAPD may have stayed with HD...

[tazmun]

On another site, about 2/3 months ago they had the LAPD spread sheet on ACTUAL costs
of the motor fleet. Time out or service, cost of repairs, mfg "willingness" to repair".
It was very interesting, and it really showed the problems they were having with
the MOCO bikes. It also showed that the MOCO were somewhat "unwilling" to fix some
real safety issues, (sound familiar)?
I think I'll see if I can find it, and post it here.

[tazmun]

On another site, about 2/3 months ago they had the LAPD spread sheet on ACTUAL costs
of the motor fleet. Time out or service, cost of repairs, mfg "willingness" to repair".
It was very interesting, and it really showed the problems they were having with
the MOCO bikes. It also showed that the MOCO were somewhat "unwilling" to fix some
real safety issues, (sound familiar)?
I think I'll see if I can find it, and post it here.

I found it,
http://www.bmwmc.net/uploads/tm7/LAPD%20Fleet%20Report.pdf

[SBB]

I found it,
http://www.bmwmc.net/uploads/tm7/LAPD%20Fleet%20Report.pdf

WOW

That's a very damaging report.
For a second there I thought I was reading a thread here.
I guess I feel better, I thought the MOCO didn't care about us CVO owners but I was wrong.
They don't appear to care about anyone.
Except maybe their stockholders.
Maybe they can offer the stockholder a deal on a bike to help sales and boost profits.
Just sayin...

SBB

[grandpadoc]

I found it,
http://www.bmwmc.net/uploads/tm7/LAPD%20Fleet%20Report.pdf

Wow, that read like our website. The police bike is built with the top 10% quality of production parts too.   Harley really needs to come out with a FLTR wet bike quickly and throw in a CVO model while there at it.      Doc

[Hoist!]

Wow, what a shocker! HD doesn't care about anything but their shareholders! Holy Crap, I would'a NEVER imagined that one in a million years!!!

Hoist!

[grandpadoc]

If they can't pull their U/U profit from sales, then it has to come from cutting back on customer support, R&D and ...   I hope this may be the end of our corporate culture in the US. The new guy at GM thinks so and is cleaning house, but it always takes Harley a little longer.

Doc

[faceracer]

The numbers have it! They can blow us little guys off, but there it is in black & white all their dirty little secrets! HD had better wake up because you can only ride on a name for so long IMHO 

[arcticdude]

That report only STRENGTHENS the MOCO's position.  Look at the cost per mile at the end of the report.  The HD's still had the lowest CPM of the 3 brands.  The HD cpm was $0.28, while the BMW was $0.30 and the Kawa was $0.34.  So even using the "bitching" in the LAPD report, HD still comes out as a lower cost bike.  That's all the bean counters want to see.  Besides, since when did heated grips cause a real problem?