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[grc]

To be perfectly honest, I don't think it had anything to do with the bikes themselves.  The statement that watercooled bikes are probably better for sustained idling and low speed work is valid, however, the R series BMW's are air/oil cooled horizontal twins.  They do have the benefit of a shaft drive, but when that shaft has problems, it's more expensive to fix then a belt drive.  

I think the think to look at was convenience...the article stated that the Beemers were, up front, more expensive than the HD's, so there's no cost savings there.  Service prices on a Beemer are the same, if not higher than service on an HD, so there's no savings there.  Reliability, the Beemer's probably got the older HD's beaten.  Here's where the contract was made:  BMW is allowing LAPD to do their own minor maintenance on the bikes without voiding the factory warranty, as long as the tech are certified to work on Beemers.  So they don't have to take the bikes into the dealer to pay for routine maintenance on the bikes...BIG savings over the life of the bike...that, in a nutshell, is what I believe did the MoCo in on this.  Had they offered the same deal, LAPD may have stayed with HD...

I don't think it has anything to do with routine maintenance, Red, it has to do with minor warranty work.  BMW will allow LAPD to do their own warranty work, at least for certain items.  As for maintenance, none of the manufacturer's can require them to take the bikes to a dealer for maintenance.

CHP went from Harley to BMW some time back, and I wonder if this move by LAPD isn't related to that.  I do know that reliability issues have hurt H-D with more than one fleet; it appears that only the Harley faithful are willing to keep accepting lower quality and reliability.  Fleets tend to put more importance on things like performance and reliability, not nostalgia and 100 year old design.

Jerry

[tazmun]

That report only STRENGTHENS the MOCO's position.  Look at the cost per mile at the end of the report.  The HD's still had the lowest CPM of the 3 brands.  The HD cpm was $0.28, while the BMW was $0.30 and the Kawa was $0.34.  So even using the "bitching" in the LAPD report, HD still comes out as a lower cost bike.  That's all the bean counters want to see.  Besides, since when did heated grips cause a real problem? 

Yes, you are somewhat correct............ Can't add cost per mile, when the bike is IN FOR SERVICE!
So when was the last year the Kawa built the Police bike?? I wonder if they would still be buying
IF KAWA was still building it, guess we'll never know!
 I guess the issue really still boils down to, what someone else said in this post,
"build a better product at a better price".
BMW only came with the police package a couple of years ago, and they are really
making inroads, First CHIP's, now LAPD. I personally wish the MOCO would get on the
road, to the fuuture!
 

[CVOTequila]

It all just boils down to this country not remembering the importance of keeping money in house.  There has been plenty of times where I have had the opportunity to purchase an item made in china, or some other foreign land, and an item made in the USA, and I will ALWAYS choose the item made in the USA.  WHY YOU ASK???  Becuase it provides American jobs!!!!  Even in a market as volatile as our market is right now, it is really hard for all of us to fathom just how difficult it is for the MoCo to compete with these foreign companies.  I will always try my best to stick with American made products specifically for this reason and I am also willing to pay a little extra to ride a bike which was built by hard-working American Hands!!   

[tazmun]

It all just boils down to this country not remembering the importance of keeping money in house.  There has been plenty of times where I have had the opportunity to purchase an item made in china, or some other foreign land, and an item made in the USA, and I will ALWAYS choose the item made in the USA.  WHY YOU ASK???  Becuase it provides American jobs!!!!  Even in a market as volatile as our market is right now, it is really hard for all of us to fathom just how difficult it is for the MoCo to compete with these foreign companies.  I will always try my best to stick with American made products specifically for this reason and I am also willing to pay a little extra to ride a bike which was built by hard-working American Hands!!   

I too agree, but you haven't bought many items for you Harley have you?
It really pisses me off when I want something from the HD store, and VERY Little
if anything is made in the USA! How about a $500 leather jacket from CHINA?

[hogasm]

WOW    17% engine failure

Out of service 11% of the time

Bad front brake lines 24% and Harley said Screw You LAPD

Way to go MOCO .....see only dumb asses buy Harley's.. ..now that is not true.....Screw up a few more things MOCO and we will buy more of your scooters

[CVOTequila]

I too agree, but you haven't bought many items for you Harley have you?
It really pisses me off when I want something from the HD store, and VERY Little
if anything is made in the USA! How about a $500 leather jacket from CHINA?

You are absolutely right, that is why sometimes I make the conscience decision NOT to purchase MoCos products, because they are Made in China!!  Now I will admit, that sometimes in our great efforts to make a good product better, we must purchase items that are made in China.  This is when I desperately try to find a similar product that is Made in the USA........on this great site!!!!! 

[tazmun]

You are absolutely right, that is why sometimes I make the conscience decision NOT to purchase MoCos products, because they are Made in China!!  Now I will admit, that sometimes in our great efforts to make a good product better, we must purchase items that are made in China.  This is when I desperately try to find a similar product that is Made in the USA........on this great site!!!!! 

I may be a little off, but I feel the same way. I have to go to the New Balance shoe store
to get the shoes they make in the USA. I can't get them anywhere else. I can go to Kohl's,
Target, Penney's,Sears and get their cheap China made shoes, but if I want USA, I have to
go to their store. They have shoes made in China, $30 to $60. made in China with US materials,
$45 to $90, then made completely in the USA, +$150. Believe me, last time I was in, only 3 styles!
I can't say they are really any better, but I feel so much BETTER!

[reo]

You hit the nail on the head Jerry, the deal breaker I'm sure was the ability to perform minor warranty work in their own shops. This is a common occurance with big fleets in the trucking industry and it does sell trucks these days....Roy

[CVOTequila]

I may be a little off, but I feel the same way. I have to go to the New Balance shoe store
to get the shoes they make in the USA. I can't get them anywhere else. I can go to Kohl's,
Target, Penney's,Sears and get their cheap China made shoes, but if I want USA, I have to
go to their store. They have shoes made in China, $30 to $60. made in China with US materials,
$45 to $90, then made completely in the USA, +$150. Believe me, last time I was in, only 3 styles!
I can't say they are really any better, but I feel so much BETTER!

Agreed!!!! I only wear NB they are the best shoes on the market..........when will they have a good pair of M/C boots?

[YesItsLoaded]

I found it,
http://www.bmwmc.net/uploads/tm7/LAPD%20Fleet%20Report.pdf

Awesome find Tazmun! (the report was great backup to my OP).

I get the reliability/safety/maintenance issues, but I have a hard time thinking of an American law enforcement agency Motor Unit being anything but all HD - I guess that thinking has to change because the face of American motor units is changing too.

You'd think that with all the business, publicity and pride HD-only motor fleets would give the MoCo, the MoCo would 'give' a little and add a year to the warranty and allow the agency's to do a few repairs in-house: seems like such a small cost compared to such a greater reward.

[09S/E roadglide]

Everybody has made some really good points. A big contract like that was made with some serious back door money ! Thats where the final decision was made !

[nidan]

There are a few other reasons they like them ..see : http://www.policemotorunits.com/id15.html

Michigan tested them as well:
Reported by Craig Fitzgerald, Hemming's Motor News:

Motorcycle guys are more than willing to defend the merits of their specific brands, but it’s not often that you get fair, unbiased testing conducted by a state agency that actually lays out money for the vehicles. The Michigan State Police recently made such testing public, as it embarked upon an evaluation program for its upcoming purchase of a fleet of motorcycles.

The Harley Davidson Road King and FLHTP were evaluated against the BMW R1200RT-P. All three bikes are the most commonly used police machines in the country. Michigan State Police evaluated the motorcycles' performance in handling, braking, acceleration and top speed, as well as the ability to cope with all the special communications and emergency warning needs of the Michigan State Police. Tests were conducted at the DaimlerChrysler Proving Grounds in Chelsea, Michigan.

The results of the testing were dramatic. The BMW was able to negotiate the nine-turn, six-lap handling course as much as 32 seconds faster than the FLHTP Electra Glide. Acceleration and top speed tests also went to the BMW, which achieved a top speed of 130 mph, vs. Harley Davidson's 103 and 107 top speeds. In the quarter mile, the BMW accelerated at least a second and a half faster than the Harley, at a speed 8-mph faster. From 60 miles per hour, the BMW stopped an amazing 21 feet sooner than either of the Harley Davidsons, or approximately a car-length and a half.

Full results of the test are available on the state of Michigan's Web site.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/VehicleTestBook2009-Motorcycles_260479_7.pdf


Perhaps if the Moco made a V-rod based unit ?

[Ironhorse]

I know folks don't like to see agencies buying Japanese or German motorcycles. But the officers are issued Italian Beretta pistols. Japanese radios and cameras are used in the field, so why not a motorcycle?

It's all about officer safety and cost. That's all. If the KZ1000P came with ABS and fuel injection, the LAPD would still be using them today. It was an excellent bike at a good price. Sure the KZ needed oil, brakes, chains, sprockets and carbs rebuilt and a top end job at 45K but that was about it. None of those Kawasakis ever experienced catasrophic brake failure due to poor design and the inconsistent and improper routing of brake lines.

When HD was bidding for the contract their big selling point was the ABS and maintenence. They said the maintenence would be cheaper because the HD used 2 sparkplugs instead of four, the FI meant that carbs didn't have to be rebuilt, and that the final drive belts were good for 100,000 miles. Reading the horrors of that LAPD report confirmed what a lot of us suspected for a long time. While the HD looks nice and rides nice it's just not built for the rigors of day to day enforcement use. A friend of mine who is a retired motor officer and was one of my instructors said many of the guys transitioning over from KZ to HD had to be retrained. It seems they were "getting on it too hard" when going after violaters. They were too used to turning the key, hitting the starter button and taking off banging through the gears folllowed by a quick shut down. The "unique" HD ECM and fly-by-wire throttle system did not like that and would invariably cause the bike to run and idle funny. So officers had to learn to turn the switch knob, wait a few seconds for the ECM to do it's checks, and then roll away slowly making sure to return the throttle back to it's original position and allowing the engine to return to idle prior shutting it off. Not exactly pursuit friendly.

Back in the 90s I was allowed to purchase four bikes to augment the car units on the streets. I chose the BMW RTs. While I LOVE and ride the HD for fun and for pleasure, deep down inside I knew the BMW would better serve the needs of my squad and the agency. I also carried a German Sig-Sauer and Austrian Glock instead of a S&W. Of course I used Japanese cameras.

Money and officer safety. That's the bottom line.

[faceracer]

I just don't understand why Harley would not try to develop a police bike? The FXRT designed by Eric Buell was a huge step forward for the Harley Police bikes and helped save the company in the early 80's. Why Harley did not continue to move froward and instead rest on there standard designs is beyond me. I would have thought by now they would have some bad arse V-rod police bike? IMHO  

[Markum]

When I was in the Cleveland Police Motorcycle unit, I started out riding a 1985 FLH with 49,000 miles on it. It was bullet proof and I tore it up during the next several years putting an additional 29,000 miles on it. I loved that bike and was amazed on how much abuse the Harley's could take. Replaced one clutch cable. We did allot of escorts for VIPs that came into town. It doesn't seem right to escort the president on BMW's.