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[tazmun]

When I was in the Cleveland Police Motorcycle unit, I started out riding a 1985 FLH with 49,000 miles on it. It was bullet proof and I tore it up during the next several years putting an additional 29,000 miles on it. I loved that bike and was amazed on how much abuse the Harley's could take. Replaced one clutch cable. We did allot of escorts for VIPs that came into town. It doesn't seem right to escort the president on BMW's.

Well you could loan them your SEUC, just kidding.
The real problem is Harley, not BMW. Harley still wants to build
1957 Chevys, not 2010 Corvette's!
LAPD uses their bikes 24/7/365, most eastern states are seasonal and
most eastern states lease their bikes from HD, at a very good rate.
They would not have the troubles that the big western fleets have. 

[Ironhorse]

By NOT renewing the LAPD contract, HD may have saved themselves millions of dollars in law suits. Police work is risky enough, and motorcop work is riskier. All of that is compunded when an unsafe motorcycle is added to the equation. All it takes is for one motorcop to become injured or worse, and the major contributing factor deemed to be an unsafe motorcycle.

There is a BRIGHT LINE between something in a "Police Package" and something designed and manufactured specifically for police use made to police specifications. HD and most manufacturers know this. Even the BMW RT/P is just a civillian bike with different body work. This is crucial in todays highly litigious society. If a patrolman goes down on a RoadKing/ElectraGlide while in pursuit in excess of 100mph, HD can take the position that the officer over rode the motorcycles design and capability. The bike they may say, is nothing more than a civillian RoadKing with blue paint and lights and siren and should have been ridden as such. Even Ford has taken this position with their "Police Package Crown Victoria." I don't know of any manufacturer who would make a motorcycle specifically for police work. The legal ramifications are too much. It's just easier to take a civillian bike and dress it up as a police bike. That way failures can be mitigated towards operator error. It becomes easier to say "they were using that bike in a manner in which it was not designed for." That was one of the issues with the LAPD. When all the issues started cropping up, HD specifically told them that the bikes were not designed to idle for long periods of time in traffic, or be started and ridden hard from a standing stop. They were designed to be ridden like the average civillian rider.

I ran into the same issue with my .45 cal Sig-Sauer P220 pistol. The frame rails cracked and I sent it back to the pistolsmiths at Quantico. Yes I got a new one, but it was also explained that the makers never intended the weapon be used under such an extended high cycle firing rate. What the heck that means I don't know, but I'm guessing it means shooting thousands of rounds through it every year was too much for it.

Mark

[faceracer]

So they can't make a better product for everybody or get sued?

[Hoist!]

So they can't make a better product for everybody or get sued?

HeHe!!! Not without negatively effecting their "return to shareholder"! And you know in this day and age, NOTHING will ever be done in any American publicly held Corp. that would negatively effect the return to shareholder!!! FTSH!!!!

Hoist!

[tazmun]

." That was one of the issues with the LAPD. When all the issues started cropping up, HD specifically told them that the bikes were not designed to idle for long periods of time in traffic, or be started and ridden hard from a standing stop. They were designed to be ridden like the average civilian rider.

Now, you have that in writing, correct?? When I look at the MoCO website, they are
SOLD/LEASED as "POLICE MOTORCYCLES". I can't find a single model in the line up
that matches, those offered as POLICE MOTORCYCLES! Looking at the BMW
site, they have a completely different "P" then the normal bike too!

I personally think, the company likes, no loves the sales, but when the "chit"
surfaces, they start "moon walking"!
 

[faceracer]

." That was one of the issues with the LAPD. When all the issues started cropping up, HD specifically told them that the bikes were not designed to idle for long periods of time in traffic, or be started and ridden hard from a standing stop. They were designed to be ridden like the average civilian rider.

Now, you have that in writing, correct?? When I look at the MoCO website, they are
SOLD/LEASED as "POLICE MOTORCYCLES". I can't find a single model in the line up
that matches, those offered as POLICE MOTORCYCLES! Looking at the BMW
site, they have a completely different "P" then the normal bike too!

I personally think, the company likes, no loves the sales, but when the "chit"
surfaces, they start "moon walking"!

EE..He He..... I'll drink to that! Wait a min....... I'll drink to anything

[OhioDave]

EE..He He..... I'll drink to that! Wait a min....... I'll drink to anything

 

[Ironhorse]

I'll drink to your drinkin'.

[tazmun]

I'll drink to your drinkin'.

Ok, lets all find a meeting place and get totally hammered!

[faceracer]

Ok, lets all find a meeting place and get totally hammered!

Deal!

[CVOTequila]

When I was in the Cleveland Police Motorcycle unit, I started out riding a 1985 FLH with 49,000 miles on it. It was bullet proof and I tore it up during the next several years putting an additional 29,000 miles on it. I loved that bike and was amazed on how much abuse the Harley's could take. Replaced one clutch cable. We did allot of escorts for VIPs that came into town. It doesn't seem right to escort the president on BMW's.

Amen to that!!!

[grc]

As someone who invested over 39 years of his life to the domestic auto industry, I think I can state at least one thing that no one can refute.  Thinking that American consumers and American governmental agencies will always support domestic products over all others is a surefire path to oblivion.  Anyone who thinks otherwise either didn't live through the past 50 years, or was asleep or stoned during all the important stuff.

The domestic industry, of which very little remains, had nearly 90% of the sales in this country and basically took the easiest route; give customers flash and style and hype while cutting corners on important stuff like quality, reliability, etcetera.  Does this sound familiar, Harley enthusiast's?  The domestic's didn't really compete, they just traded customers among themselves (guy with a Ford gets pizzed at the quality, buys a Chevy; different guy with a Chevy gets pizzed at the lack of quality, buys a Ford), maintained their share of the market, paid themselves very nice salaries and bonuses, and blew off any idea that competitors from other countries could possibly upset the apple cart.  Then Americans reacted to fuel shortages and price hikes by actually buying those small cheap fuel efficient cars from Japan, and I think we all know the history from that point. 

I also try to buy American whenever possible, and in fact that's I how I became a Harley customer.  But even someone who feels the way I do eventually has to face reality and ask themselves why they would spend twice as much for a product that is inferior to the less expensive foreign products.  I don't mind spending more for domestic if the quality is good (like with New Balance), but I'm no longer willing to pay more for less and also be treated like a piece of dog chit on the manufacturer's shoe.  I would be willing to keep paying more for a Harley if it was reliable and technologically competitive, and management didn't treat customers like sludge, but I don't see them doing anything yet to deserve my future business.

Jerry

[nidan]

I too buy american at every opportunity , that is unfortunately getting less and less.

Corporate america is offshoring everything they can, which will leave us with fat cat executives and service level folks eventually .. And we wonder why the economy is crumbling and unemployment is so high. My company is no different.   

It's sad with the long history of HD in the Police Ranks that they couldn't build an acceptable platform . If it would stand up to the rigors of daily duty and persuit situations, just think how much the normal rider could benefit.

[tazmun]

Jerry, I am in total agreement. One thing I try to understand is WHY all the other car mfg from
around the world set up plants in the good old USA. The Japaness, Korea, Germany, etc, and
they make quality products and give Americans jobs, while people complain the profits go overseas!
The American companies, RUN to outsourse, just for the bottom line.
I just read the following news release from Honda...........I think it's a good read!

01/08/2010 - TORRANCE, Calif. - An all-time high of 83.8 percent of the Honda and Acura automobiles sold in the United States in 2009 were produced* at the company's plants in North America, American Honda Motor Co., Inc., announced today. American Honda has maintained a local production rate of approximately 75 percent or higher since 1996.
Honda operates seven automobile plants in North America - four in the U.S., two in Canada and one in Mexico, producing fifteen different models, including the Civic sedan, coupe and GX (natural gas vehicle), Accord sedan, coupe and Crosstour, Odyssey, Pilot, Ridgeline, CR-V and Element, as well as the Acura TL, ZDX, RDX and MDX models.
Honda's North American plants produced a total of more than one million vehicles in 2009, including those for export and currently in dealer inventory. Of the more than 1.15 million Honda and Acura automobiles sold in the U.S. in 2009, the 83.8 percent local production rate is the highest percentage in the company's 27-year history of making automobiles in the region and by far the highest percentage for any international automaker in 2009.
"As part of our long-standing commitment to build Honda and Acura products close to our customers, we have steadily deepened our automobile manufacturing roots in the U.S. and the North America region," said Tetsuo Iwamura, president & CEO of American Honda Motor Co., Inc. "Using our flexible manufacturing capacity, we plan to continue to maintain our local production levels at approximately 80 percent of our annual sales."
Honda began production of the fuel efficient Honda Civic sedan at its seventh North American auto plant, in Greensburg, Indiana, in October 2008. In 2009, the company added production of two new crossover vehicles - the Honda Accord Crosstour, manufactured in East Liberty, Ohio, and the Acura ZDX, manufactured in Alliston, Ontario - along with the addition of fuel-efficient four-cylinder engine production at a new engine plant in Ontario, Canada.
Honda has exported nearly 960,000 automobiles from its plants in North America to more than 100 countries around the world since 1987, including approximately 27,000 vehicles in 2009, as well as exporting more than 300,000 component parts last year to be used in the assembly of Honda products in other nations.
In addition to automobile production, Honda operates three automobile engine plants in North America - two in the U.S. and one in Canada - along with two U.S. plants for the production of automatic transmissions and gear sets; a power equipment and small engine plant, in North Carolina; and a plant producing Honda all-terrain vehicles, in South Carolina.
Two additional new plants, for the production of the HondaJet advanced light jet and the GE Honda turbofan engine, are under construction in the communities of Greensboro and Burlington, North Carolina, respectively.
 

[arcticdude]

Bullchit!!!!!!!- They didn't want to pay the import taxes, so they built plants here to get around paying the fees.