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CVO Social => Other Topics => Topic started by: porthole on March 04, 2008, 07:43:34 PM
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Baker (trans people) have a new oil pan coming out, hold 5 quarts and separates the intake and discharge of the oil tubes. I've never seen them but apparently the sump and return are right next to each other on the twin cam, so the oil doesn't get a good circulation.
The new pan splits the sump and return from front to back, they claim a cooler running engine and a couple of HP.
The pan apparently comes with some type of swing arm stabilizer as a built in feature.
Who will be first in line ?
http://www.thebeachcruiser.com/blog/category/vendors/baker-drive-train
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And in case you noticed the two piece pan in the pictures, apparently that is the prototype and mainline items will be 1 piece.
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I've been eyeing this for a couple of months now. I called Baker a while back and they were not in full production yet. Asked if the chrome version had the same heat reduction but they didn't know the answer then. Since it's been out for a couple of weeks now I would surprised if no one here has one on yet!
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Can't find a price anywhere. As interesting as the concept is if I'm not seeing overheated oil to begin with it'll be hard to justify anything but a fair price for an oil pan. Newer, neater, fancier, better smelling; all may be good. But they don't always equate to necessary.... :nixweiss:
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Can't find a price anywhere. As interesting as the concept is if I'm not seeing overheated oil to begin with it'll be hard to justify anything but a fair price for an oil pan. Newer, neater, fancier, better smelling; all may be good. But they don't always equate to necessary.... :nixweiss:
necessary....necessary....what's that? Can't find that word anywhere in the playbook.... :nixweiss:
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Can't find a price anywhere. As interesting as the concept is if I'm not seeing overheated oil to begin with it'll be hard to justify anything but a fair price for an oil pan. Newer, neater, fancier, better smelling; all may be good. But they don't always equate to necessary.... :nixweiss:
SHHHH. I just used the better smelling part to justify getting a new seat, can't let the little woman see this thread!
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Can't find a price anywhere. As interesting as the concept is if I'm not seeing overheated oil to begin with it'll be hard to justify anything but a fair price for an oil pan. Newer, neater, fancier, better smelling; all may be good. But they don't always equate to necessary.... :nixweiss:
Can you explain the red powder coat then :nixweiss:
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Can't find a price anywhere.
I found an article on the pan a couple of days ago with a lot more info, can't find it now. Seem to recall the price somewhere between 4 & 5 benny's
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Can you explain the red powder coat then :nixweiss:
That was lust. It's hard to lust after an oil pan....
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That was lust. It's hard to lust after an oil pan....
Until you think about it bit - think of it as underwear - red panties for your ride
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Until you think about it bit - think of it as underwear - red panties for your ride
The problem there is I've already got an oil pan to lust after. Have one already powder coated red to match the motor. Just haven't put it on yet.... :nixweiss:
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The problem there is I've already got an oil pan to lust after. Have one already powder coated red to match the motor. Just haven't put it on yet.... :nixweiss:
Yeah I know, had you already not PC'd it this would have been just the ticket.
Still waiting to see how the stabilizer works.
But, 1 extra quart is 20% more oil - I'd like to have more oil :2vrolijk_21:
The one thing I don't like about my Duramax is that it only holds 10 quarts of oil (Ford - 14 qts).
My dealer though recently helped me lesson my concern, started charging me for 12 quarts :nixweiss:
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Yeah I know, had you already not PC'd it this would have been just the ticket.
Still waiting to see how the stabilizer works.
But, 1 extra quart is 20% more oil - I'd like to have more oil :2vrolijk_21:
The one thing I don't like about my Duramax is that it only holds 10 quarts of oil (Ford - 14 qts).
My dealer though recently helped me lesson my concern, started charging me for 12 quarts :nixweiss:
Duane, this oil pan doesn't have a stabilizer built into it. What it has is a nub on the bottom of the pan where you can bolt the Alloy Art stabilizer instead of using a 'cage' as is required on the stock oil pan. If anyone has the True Trak or the Ride Str8, or any other stabilizer, except the Alloy Art unit, they will not be able to use those units with these pans. This pan prevents access to the oil pan bolts as they are no longer exposed as before. I wonder if Alloy Art contributed to the design as you will be locked into their unit if you use this pan and want to run a stabilizer bracket.
I have a lot of respect for Bert's products, but in this case I think they have come up with a solution and are now looking to create the problem it solves.
I believe their description of how the stock pan circulates is intentionally over-simplified to make it seem like there is a problem with the design. While it is true both inlet and outlet are at the front of the tank, the internal baffles route the oil to the rear of the tank before it can make its way to the front and return to the engine.
:indian_chief:
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Here's shot of the inards of the stock oil pan on the '07s and '08s. The pre-07 models are very similar. The oil enters the pan at (Q43) into the area (R44) and exits at (S45). The baffle prevents the hot oil from simply exiting the pan and returning to the engine as is implied in the Baker P1P description.
:indian_chief:
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Here's the text from the SM explaining the oil flow.
:indian_chief:
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Duane, this oil pan doesn't have a stabilizer built into it. What it has is a nub on the bottom of the pan where you can bolt the Alloy Art stabilizer instead of using a 'cage' as is required on the stock oil pan. If anyone has the True Trak or the Ride Str8, or any other stabilizer, except the Alloy Art unit, they will not be able to use those units with these pans. This pan prevents access to the oil pan bolts as they are no longer exposed as before. I wonder if Alloy Art contributed to the design as you will be locked into their unit if you use this pan and want to run a stabilizer bracket.
I have a lot of respect for Bert's products, but in this case I think they have come up with a solution and are now looking to create the problem it solves.
I believe their description of how the stock pan circulates is intentionally over-simplified to make it seem like there is a problem with the design. While it is true both inlet and outlet are at the front of the tank, the internal baffles route the oil to the rear of the tank before it can make its way to the front and return to the engine.
:indian_chief:
Chief, you took the words right out of my mouth. They seem to be implying that the hot return oil is just dumped into the stock pan right next to the pickup. As you noted, that is not how the stock system works. The real difference is the additional quart of oil and the larger surface area of the pan, both of which will contribute to reducing bulk oil temps. The additional quart of oil is something I've always thought would be a good idea on a Harley, but I don't think I'd pay an extra $500 for the privilege of adding that capability.
Jerry
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But - if you start trying to justify the price you already lost ::)
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Duane,
It sounds like you're real interested in an extra quart of oil in the system. There is a pretty easy and cheap to add extra capacity to the system and that is to plumb into the engine guard. From what I've heard, that will bump your capacity by about 1.5 qt. for about a 40% increase.
:indian_chief:
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Yeah I know, had you already not PC'd it this would have been just the ticket.
Still waiting to see how the stabilizer works.
But, 1 extra quart is 20% more oil - I'd like to have more oil :2vrolijk_21:
The one thing I don't like about my Duramax is that it only holds 10 quarts of oil (Ford - 14 qts).
My dealer though recently helped me lesson my concern, started charging me for 12 quarts :nixweiss:
Add an oil bypass 2 filter kit to that duramax. You will get the extra 4qts plus longer oil change intervals ;)
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How much lower does the pan sit? Is it lower than the cross member? Like the sound of the extra quart, but $500 is a lot for just a quart.
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How much lower does the pan sit? Is it lower than the cross member? Like the sound of the extra quart, but $500 is a lot for just a quart.
Yeh but, didn't you see that they have a billet CHROME one ! ;D
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but I don't think I'd pay an extra $500 for the privilege of adding that capability.
Jerry
That was the part of the first thoughts that came to my mind as well. "It's going to be expensive" for a problem that doesn't really exist. Too many products are put before the masses knowing that if good spin can be given the buyers will come. All kiding or teasing aside on this one, the enemy of cash in your wallet is fancy parts you never really needed to begin with.
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I think the need does exist for the people with 110in motors especially if it helps lower the oil temp. I just hate to put a parade fan on any bike.
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I think the need does exist for the people with 110in motors especially if it helps lower the oil temp. I just hate to put a parade fan on any bike.
Dave, I'm not sure an increase in oil volume would be a panacea for the 110s. As lean and hot as some are the small difference from increased capacity is unlikely to save them.
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Dave, I'm not sure an increase in oil volume would be a panacea for the 110s. As lean and hot as some are the small difference from increased capacity is unlikely to save them.
I agree...an extra quart capacity will only delay reaching peak temperature for a few minutes.
On the racecars, we ran a dry sump system with a 10 qt. capacity - and oil temp ran 220. We replaced the reservior with a 14 qt. capacity tank at some point - and oil temp ran 220... :nixweiss:
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I agree...an extra quart capacity will only delay reaching peak temperature for a few minutes.
On the racecars, we ran a dry sump system with a 10 qt. capacity - and oil temp ran 220. We replaced the reservior with a 14 qt. capacity tank at some point - and oil temp ran 220... :nixweiss:
Precisely. You can to some small degree delay the amount of time it takes it to reach temperature. But whatever it is eventually going to get to it will get to. That temp isn't a function of the oil volume. And one quart isn't going to make a lot of difference on these motors.
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either way, given a choice I would rather have 5 qts then 4 qts.
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either way, given a choice I would rather have 5 qts then 4 qts.
It's all in the perspective. Less oil in the system is less to leak out of a 110 :bananarock: .
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It's all in the perspective.
Yes it is, a slightly bigger oil pan = more drag = a handicap for the red bikes and a plus for the others
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Yes it is, a slightly bigger oil pan = more drag = a handicap for the red bikes and a plus for the others
But..... Think of all the advantage to be had from the triple red scenario. Red bike. Red powder coated oil pan. Redline oil. Escape to orbit velocity might be reached :nixweiss: .
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Escape to orbit velocity might be reached :nixweiss: .
I think you might be exaggerating here a bit
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I think you might be exaggerating here a bit
Who, me :confused5: ?
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Who, me :confused5: ?
Your feet wrap around a perch :nixweiss:
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Your feet wrap around a perch :nixweiss:
How odd, why yes they are :-\ ?
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How odd, why yes they are :-\ ?
You chit through feathers :nixweiss:
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You chit through feathers :nixweiss:
I can't see back there Duane :nixweiss: .
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Can't find a price anywhere. As interesting as the concept is if I'm not seeing overheated oil to begin with it'll be hard to justify anything but a fair price for an oil pan. Newer, neater, fancier, better smelling; all may be good. But they don't always equate to necessary.... :nixweiss:
Advertised in the latest Hot Bike magazine for $399...
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I can't see back there Duane :nixweiss: .
Then why you who-ing?
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Advertised in the latest Hot Bike magazine for $399...
Hell, for that I'll take two. Then will have six extra quarts. That's got to be better doesn't it :nixweiss: ?
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Hell, for that I'll take two. Then will have six extra quarts. That's got to be better doesn't it :nixweiss: ?
More is always better! :huepfenjump3: :drink:
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More is always better! :huepfenjump3: :drink:
go for the gusto, pump oil through engine guard and add the Baker 5 quart... jeeez now you got 6-1/2 quarts.. of liquid gold!!!!!
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go for the gusto, pump oil through engine guard and add the Baker 5 quart... jeeez now you got 6-1/2 quarts.. of liquid gold!!!!!
If you are going to go through that much trouble may as well do it like the head boats do - run it through all the pipes.
That way the 110's will have all the frame, the handlebars engine guards to help cool the oil
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Except you'll burn yourself every where you touch the bike. Frame, handlebars, engine guard, etc. Bike is uncomfortable enough already, although in the colder months, hot oil might be the trick in the seat and handlebars!
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Has anyone tried the Baker 5 qt oil bag for FLs. They say cooler running and greater support for swingarm?
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Thanks for reply.
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Thanks for reply.
I just nuked it since the d00d meister merged the two threads. I guess I was too slow. ;)
:indian_chief:
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I just nuked it since the d00d meister merged the two threads. I guess I was too slow. ;)
:indian_chief:
What was the answer? This is another expenditure I have been thinking about.
Sean
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What was the answer? This is another expenditure I have been thinking about.
Sean
There was already a thread existing on this topic I merged them together. You'll have to read posts before the ones today to get the info you want.
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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What was the answer? This is another expenditure I have been thinking about.
Sean
I think Baker is trying too hard to come up with a problem to solve in order to move their product. They try to make the stock oil pan seem no more capable than a bucket with two holes. It's not a fair description. They also make it sound like their pan somehow helps out the swingarm, not true.
They claim that hot oil is dumped into the pan tight up front near the outlet hole, implying that hot oil is being pulled right back into the motor. Funny how they decline to mention the baffling in the tank that routes hot oil to the rear of the tank before it flows back to the front, cooling off all the time.
Their contribution to swingarm stability is a boss to bolt Alloy Art's stabilizer to the bottom of the tank instead of using the std bracket to attach to the tank. All they did was add an attachment point. You still need to shell out the 4 or 5 c-notes for the AA stabilizer.
:indian_chief:
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thanks!
I think Baker is trying too hard to come up with a problem to solve in order to move their product. They try to make the stock oil pan seem no more capable than a bucket with two holes. It's not a fair description. They also make it sound like their pan somehow helps out the swingarm, not true.
They claim that hot oil is dumped into the pan tight up front near the outlet hole, implying that hot oil is being pulled right back into the motor. Funny how they decline to mention the baffling in the tank that routes hot oil to the rear of the tank before it flows back to the front, cooling off all the time.
Their contribution to swingarm stability is a boss to bolt Alloy Art's stabilizer to the bottom of the tank instead of using the std bracket to attach to the tank. All they did was add an attachment point. You still need to shell out the 4 or 5 c-notes for the AA stabilizer.
:indian_chief: