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[mrmagloo]

I just realized it's been a while since we've brought together our local Audio gurus for a round table discussion to talk about the new products out there relevant to the HK era radios.

I've currently got the J&M 125.2 amp, with the Rokker 7.25" in the fairing and the lowers in my 2006 SEUC. Per TIF2's advice a while back, I have these front speakers running in series, and the rear J&M Rokkers in the rear pods running off the stock amp. It all sounds OK, certainly better than stock and it was a modest improvement, but always looking for more.

I know the J&M speakers certainly aren't the cats ass, and I wish I would have known about the Focals back then, but I will be changing those out in the future. I think first, I want to upgrade the amp as a first step. My plan is to get the best, most powerful 4 channel amp I can get that will fit above the HK, and I think it's really between the Arc 125.4 and the BT4180.  My plan is to run the fairing and lower speakers on their own channels, and continue to leave the rears on the stock amp. The spec's give the BT4180 a solid edge, but I know there were some negatives.

The last time there was an amp discussion the BT4180 had just came out and the glaring issue was there was no gains controls. It was mentioned that this would be a new feature coming, but 2 years later, I can't see they've ever made the change? I just checked their site and I'm still not seeing it. I do however think it's a little smaller than the Arc 125.4, which might avoid having to trim the guages.

So anyway, with winter coming, I think this is going to be on my winter project list. I'm really interested in hearing some opinions, and whether there are any other amps to consider too. I heard HW came out with something, but I don't know much about it. I also heard on another forum about a Soundstream TN4.900D but know nothing about that either. I know Pete at CS is pretty much exclusively using the Arc's, so that says something I guess. Thanks for any input you guys care to share about what's new out there, and what you think is the best route. I know in the past there was some talk of a new class of D amps coming, that would be smaller and more powerful, but I don't know if I've seen anything yet?

BTW - As a side note, this summer I installed that Harley Tourpak port kit, and gosh what a mistake. Killed the little bass I was getting from them. Sounds great when you're sitting and you open the tourpak, but when closed, it sure made things worse. The mesh grills and ports do look nice, but I think the crappy J&M speakers and low power really dilutes what benefit there might have been. I guess I'll have to plug them somehow. Bummer.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

ARC amp, focal or hertz speakers and that is all that needs to be done.  SLORIDE on here is a the guy for the bigger systems we do the most so basic stuff. But we are a ARC dealer and the amp is rocking the focal speakers are amazing but the two as a kit and you have a very health sound system. 

[Cvostu]

 I have the arc125.4 with focal krc165 in the fairing and the lowers.   They are on the same channel and sound great.   Very loud.  Very clear.  I have 5x7 hybrid audio in the bags. Running off the other channel.    Works great for me.     Stuart. 

[lilcoot]

I've had the BT4180 and the 7 inch BT/HAT speakers in the fairing and rear pods for over a year now.  Works well, and I understand the lack of gain control isn't an issue if the speakers are matched. 

Whatever you do will be an improvement over what you have now, so don't waste a lot of time and stress over this.  I don't know that there will be any significant difference.  I've heard that the customer support at BT is outstanding; never had to use it.

Good luck and stay safe!

Dan

[mrhdvrod]

Really to me it comes down to placement, if your putting the amp anywhere other then in the fairing you have a ton of options, inside the fairing size constraints and potential FM loss are the key issues to help decide?

Going in a bag with the amp and want more power to run really high power for 4 speakers or a larger size amp for 6-10 speakers then you have more options.

For me between BT and Arc I want the clean power advantage of the BT and the added lifetime warranty. If I'm doing sperates and want to high pass the speakers without adding A passiveor active crossover I'd consider the arc, but if I'm going in the bags I'd go another way all together.

Zed audio amp - great reputation, higher end big clean power multi channel 2 ohm stable, if I'm going up to 8 speaker (or 12 with the 6 channel) and all my speakers are 4 ohm I'm going here with parallel wiring

Focal fpd series amps 4 and 6 channel, higher end little more costly but size, power output, and the fact that these were designed by Steve Mantz also makes them high on my list

Hertz HDP-4 and HDP-5 solid amps great performance

JL audio had 600/4 or 900/5 can't go wrong and plenty of power
Alpine PDX is stick in same class as the JL

Rockford power series AD amps - an example of Rockford getting back to the 90s type products they produced


On the cheaper side but still solid performing just not as efficient as the above would be
Sound stream (includes precision power and power acoustik - all 3 same company now same product more or less) Rockford PBR amps, cerwin vega/ DD - again same company, and Memphis makes a tiny class d that's cheap fairly efficient just a bit overstated power wise.

Most important thing is that they are class D amps for the limited electrical System, they fit where you want them, and you realize almost anything will be an improvement over stock

[mrmagloo]

Does the BT4180 allow for high level inputs, or would I have to have Iron Cross do the low level outputs on the HK to go that route?

[mrmagloo]

To answer my own question, I called BT and they say they include the High Input converters that they feel are better than the built-in resister high-level converters. Also, that at a 2 Ohm load, the BT4180 puts out in the neighborhood of 250W/ch. Seems like a serious upgrade with this D class amp over the Arc 125.4. What's nicer is it's smaller and it won't require trimming of the gauges to fit either. with running matched speakers in the fairing and lowers, I'm thinking the lack of the gains isn't that big of a deal.

[tpb857]

To answer my own question, I called BT and they say they include the High Input converters that they feel are better than the built-in resister high-level converters. Also, that at a 2 Ohm load, the BT4180 puts out in the neighborhood of 250W/ch. Seems like a serious upgrade with this D class amp over the Arc 125.4. What's nicer is it's smaller and it won't require trimming of the gauges to fit either. with running matched speakers in the fairing and lowers, I'm thinking the lack of the gains isn't that big of a deal.

I had the 4180 in my 2012 CVO SG.  I had to trim the gauges a bit to get the fairing back on properly.  I was able to do it without trimming the gauges, but it seemed as if I had to force the fairing on a little too much for my liking.  Anyway, it was no big deal to do.

[mrmagloo]

I had the 4180 in my 2012 CVO SG.  I had to trim the gauges a bit to get the fairing back on properly.  I was able to do it without trimming the gauges, but it seemed as if I had to force the fairing on a little too much for my liking.  Anyway, it was no big deal to do.

Thanks for the input. Seems not alot of folks around here use BT stuff, so I'm not sure where they stack up against the Arc?  Over on HDF, seems everyone loves BT, so it's hard to make heads or tails.

How do you like the amp? What speakers are you running? Did you go right from stock, or did you upgrade? Sounds like you don't have the bike any longer. What did you do with the new bike or what are you plans?

I'd love to hear a Arc 125.4 set up with 4 of the KRC165 upper and lower vs a BT4180 with 4 of their 7.1, side by side. The BT stuff can be had around 1/2 the price of the ARC/Focal, and from what I understand, the BT7P1 are made by HAT, so they are supposed to be pretty decent.

Also, has anyone heard of wrapping the fairing speakers? Those guys talk about polyfill wrapping the fairing speakers and it making a big improvement?
Thanks!

[mrhdvrod]

WrApping in polyfill gives the speaker the illusion of more cubit ft of airspace, this is used in smaller enclosures where woofers chosen would perform better with a bit more space. It will encrease the lower frequency response and should be audible, but it's not going to go from crap to great. The fairing is not a sealed enclosure, but adding polyfill and some sound deadening material to reduce vibration and improve roll off will help for sure and also polyfill is a few bucks at arts and crafts stores or Walmart so it's not a big investment to test.

I'd also love to head a side by side but haven't so far. Focal is known for its higher frequency sound production some refer to it as tinny sounding, or in my opinion crisp. HAT speakers are a better mid range and a little softer in the highs which I tend to prefer. Dynaudio makes in my opinion the best but overkill on a motorcycle. Other options are morel, JL Audio, hertz, audison, the list goes on.

I'm personally planning biketronics pro series 7.1 up front, BT 6.5 in rear, with a BT 4180 and later adding lid speakers. The sound, and lifetime warranty are enough to convince me to stop looking around.

[FlaHeatWave]

Does the BT4180 allow for high level inputs, or would I have to have Iron Cross do the low level outputs on the HK to go that route?

IMO, Having Iron Cross install preamp outs is the best $110 you can spend on a HD (amplified) system.

The preamp outs bypass the HK amplifier section which has always sounded muddy to me.

[mrmagloo]

IMO, Having Iron Cross install preamp outs is the best $110 you can spend on a HD (amplified) system.

The preamp outs bypass the HK amplifier section which has always sounded muddy to me.

The only concern I have there is I'm running the rears off the stock amp. The BT4180 would run the front fairing and lowers.  I just wonder if when you get the preamp outputs, if the amped output stays intact too, so you can run both? Hmmm, I'll have to call Tony.

[mrhdvrod]

Why not run the rears off the BT as well it's 2 ohm stable so as long as your running 4 ohm speakers you can run them in parallel, at 2 ohms the BT will give at a minimum 250 watts rms

[mrmagloo]

Interesting idea!  That's why I like to bounce these questions off the pros.

So, in theory, if I get the 7.1's for the front fairing running off channel 1&2, and then run the lower 7.1's and the rears off the 3&4 channel, that might actually boost the db output to better match the fairing which is right in your face.  Naturally, I loose the fade, well rather, the fade would be between fairing vs lower and rears combined, but thats actually not bad. I'm really just loosing the fade betweem the lowers and the rears, which I don't think will be a problem as those are essentially for fill anyway, right? Hmmm, sounds like this might work if I'm interpreting this correctly?

[mrhdvrod]

Fairing would get 180 wats each speaker, lowers and rear would get at least 125 each running in parallel on a 2 ohm load