www.CVOHARLEY.com
CVO Technical => Intake/Exhaust/ECM => Topic started by: Fullsac Performance on September 27, 2016, 03:19:16 PM
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We just finished installing a pair of our 2.25 Spiral Louvered baffles in a brand new set of 2017 CVO 114 mufflers. The 2017s baffles are not interchangeable with the 2016 and earlier CVOs. They are a little shorter but still identical left and right despite the larger 2.5" right side inlet. Removing the stock baffle is still the same routine of grinding down a couple of small spot welds and tapping them out.
We will have the new 2017 CVO baffles on the shelf in one week!
Thanks Alan (SDCVO) for sending us your mufflers!
Steve@fullsac.com
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Another Pic!
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:2vrolijk_21:
Good Job and thanks
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Thanks Steve, I am fired up about trying them out!! Appreciate the quick turn around also
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C'mon Steve, you know the 2 questions everyone is going to ask-
1) Pictures. Check. You posted them.
2) Dyno sheets with the baffles installed.
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Take your time Steve....Alan is having the whole bike rebuilt before he takes possession of it.....motor work, exhaust, stereo/speakers, etc.
I'm just about as excited to see the finished bike as he is to get it. :P
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Take your time Steve....Alan is having the whole bike rebuilt before he takes possession of it.....motor work, exhaust, stereo/speakers, etc.
I'm just about as excited to see the finished bike as he is to get it. :P
Be very careful JC that "New Bike" bug may get you too. :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
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Take your time Steve....Alan is having the whole bike rebuilt before he takes possession of it.....motor work, exhaust, stereo/speakers, etc.
I'm just about as excited to see the finished bike as he is to get it. :P
Take my time? Those mufflers went out yesterday. :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21:
SG
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Will just the mufflers work or do I still need to change the head pipe and tune.
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Take your time Steve....Alan is having the whole bike rebuilt before he takes possession of it.....motor work, exhaust, stereo/speakers, etc.
I'm just about as excited to see the finished bike as he is to get it. :P
True except the exhaust part since Steve didn't have the header ready to go yet. Im gonna talk you into taking a ride with me to Lake Havasu in a couple of months so Steve can do the exhaust and tune. We might even be able to talk "El Diablo" into getting the new bike he hopefully has by then into coming with us and doing same
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Will just the mufflers work or do I still need to change the head pipe and tune.
Mufflers only on our 107 showed zero power increase on the dyno. It was only slightly louder too.
The cat is a major cork and has to go to get any sound and power out of the new 8 valve.
And yes, tuning and fuel will be required to feed any power increase.
SG
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Heh Steve - I bet this is old news to you and many others on here -- local dealer told me:
- don't do a headers change on a Milwaukee 8
- EPA is causing "dealerships" problems for the modifications.
I'm trying to learn more - in the meantime - are you hearing anything. A pal at work tried to get an FLHTK with the new VH Power Duals and dealer would not install. Thnx, Jim
Mufflers only on our 107 showed zero power increase on the dyno. It was only slightly louder too.
The cat is a major cork and has to go to get any sound and power out of the new 8 valve.
And yes, tuning and fuel will be required to feed any power increase.
SG
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Heh Steve - I bet this is old news to you and many others on here -- local dealer told me:
- don't do a headers change on a Milwaukee 8
- EPA is causing "dealerships" problems for the modifications.
I'm trying to learn more - in the meantime - are you hearing anything. A pal at work tried to get an FLHTK with the new VH Power Duals and dealer would not install. Thnx, Jim
There is a lot of information on this site and elsewhere on this subject. The US Environmental Protection Agency busted Harley-Davidson for tampering with emission systems and selling emission system defeat devices, namely the SERT and SEPST "Race" tuners. The short version is that Harley had to pay a fine, agreed to stop selling the illegal devices, and warned all it's dealers that they would no longer tolerate illegal modifications. In other words, the same kind of thing the automotive industry has been living with since the 1970's. If you modify the emission system, including the catalytic converter, or make other changes that cause the bike to no longer be in compliance with the EPA standards, you risk losing any powertrain warranty under the agreement Harley signed. Dealers who continue to perform illegal modifications are subject to enforcement actions by the EPA, including fines large enough to put many of them out of business if fully enforced. Thus the statements from many dealers these days that they will not perform such mods. I'd suggest you consider making any such illegal modifications carefully before pulling the trigger, or at least be aware you may find yourself paying for any and all powertrain repairs. Unless you live in a state that either checks motorcycle emissions, or plans to start such a program, you can pretty much do whatever you want to your bike. What changes is the willingness of the dealers and Harley itself to look the other way if you bring your modified and thus illegal bike in for warranty repairs. If warranty isn't a big deal to you, no problem.
Jerry
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Heh Steve - I bet this is old news to you and many others on here -- local dealer told me:
- don't do a headers change on a Milwaukee 8
- EPA is causing "dealerships" problems for the modifications.
I'm trying to learn more - in the meantime - are you hearing anything. A pal at work tried to get an FLHTK with the new VH Power Duals and dealer would not install. Thnx, Jim
Old laws and old news. Guys who wish to modify their exhaust and ECM calibrations should be prepared to return the bike to stock before attempting to make a warranty claim. If your using TTS Mastertune it takes about 10 minutes to remove the left saddle bag, access the data port and flash it the ECM back to stock. Switching the headpipe back takes 1-2 hours depending on your skills. If you want warranty coverage, its always been recomended to bring in a stock bike unless you have a special relationship with your dealer. What's new is The EPAs efforts to end those relationships.
SG
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Old laws and old news. Guys who wish to modify their exhaust and ECM calibrations should be prepared to return the bike to stock before attempting to make a warranty claim. If your using TTS Mastertune it takes about 10 minutes to remove the left saddle bag, access the data port and flash it the ECM back to stock. Switching the headpipe back takes 1-2 hours depending on your skills. If you want warranty coverage, its always been recomended to bring in a stock bike unless you have a special relationship with your dealer. What's new is The EPAs efforts to end those relationships.
SG
Is that the new head pipe you are working on for the 2017? Or is that just a picture of the factory one?
In spite of the new enforcement of the old law there are many who want a good head pipe for their 2017. How is progress coming on it?
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Is that the new head pipe you are working on for the 2017? Or is that just a picture of the factory one?
In spite of the new enforcement of the old law there are many who want a good head pipe for their 2017. How is progress coming on it?
Dave
That's the OEM header and crossover. Here's a peek at our new crossover. Progress is coming along very well. :2vrolijk_21:
Steve
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Yup - thnx Steve. I'm on my 9th HD - and I agree - if one thing is a constant especially here in the DC Area -- you really only get "protection" by staying with the dealer you bought from. I've seen others get warranty declined while I "push through" those first 2 years and get everything done where I bought the bike - never had an issue -- but I've had warranty work declined while travelling. BTW - chatted with "Doc" -- he too is recommending to wait for your headers! Thnx, Jim
Old laws and old news. Guys who wish to modify their exhaust and ECM calibrations should be prepared to return the bike to stock before attempting to make a warranty claim. If your using TTS Mastertune it takes about 10 minutes to remove the left saddle bag, access the data port and flash it the ECM back to stock. Switching the headpipe back takes 1-2 hours depending on your skills. If you want warranty coverage, its always been recomended to bring in a stock bike unless you have a special relationship with your dealer. What's new is The EPAs efforts to end those relationships.
SG
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Dave
That's the OEM header and crossover. Here's a peek at our new crossover. Progress is coming along very well. :2vrolijk_21:
Steve
That is looking nice Steve. I'm anxious for the finished product. I'm guessing it will be a bike wake up for these bikes, as slip on make little difference in sound. That tells me the cat is more restrictive than prior years.
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Steve, picked up bike on Thursday (thats another story) and those mufflers actually sound pretty da-- good even with the cat still in. The people at the dealership (Wildhorse in Bend OR) were all talking about how much better they sound then the Street Cannons.
Thanks again for "hooking me up" and looking forward to you finishing up that header where it won't just sound ok but unlock some of that motor which will be great considering how it runs now plugged up..
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True except the exhaust part since Steve didn't have the header ready to go yet. Im gonna talk you into taking a ride with me to Lake Havasu in a couple of months so Steve can do the exhaust and tune. We might even be able to talk "El Diablo" into getting the new bike he hopefully has by then into coming with us and doing same
Just caught this post. Be happy to ride to LH with you. Mike should have a CVO by then but he'll ride with us even if he's still got his Street Glide. He's always up for a ride.
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Steve, picked up bike on Thursday (thats another story) and those mufflers actually sound pretty da-- good even with the cat still in. The people at the dealership (Wildhorse in Bend OR) were all talking about how much better they sound then the Street Cannons.
Thanks again for "hooking me up" and looking forward to you finishing up that header where it won't just sound ok but unlock some of that motor which will be great considering how it runs now plugged up..
Glad your happy with the baffles and their tone!
Progress on the new 8 valve header is moving right along. This is one of several different collector configurations that will be hitting the dyno
bolted to a new 114 CVO. From there it's a process of trial and error to see what delivers the best TQ curve. Its very possible we may end up
with two headers again. One favoring the basic stage I builds and the other for the higher power levels that we know are coming with this new 8 valve motor.
Everyone on the Fullsac team is excited to be working on HDs latest effort to raise the bar. So far its looking like they have raised it substantially with this all new powerplant.
Steve@fullsac.com
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Steve,
We are anxious to see your results with the heads pipe or pipes for the 114 CVO's :coolblue:
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Steve,
Will you be making the "OEM HI FLOW MUFFLER KIT" for the 2017+ Milwaukee 8 107" bikes?
http://fullsac.com/product/oem-hi-flow-muffler-kit/ These kits are 2007-2016.
I was very happy with your Sleeper Kit for my 2011 CVO Ultra but today I have a 2017 Road King (non-CVO)
Thanks,
Bob~
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Steve,
Will you be making the "OEM HI FLOW MUFFLER KIT" for the 2017+ Milwaukee 8 107" bikes?
http://fullsac.com/product/oem-hi-flow-muffler-kit/ These kits are 2007-2016.
I was very happy with your Sleeper Kit for my 2011 CVO Ultra but today I have a 2017 Road King (non-CVO)
Thanks,
Bob~
Bob
Not sure yet if we will have a bolt on kit for the 2017 107 muffler. The internal packing is different and I need to cut a set open to see if it will come out. We are currently modifying the 107 muffler in house. We remove the stock baffle and replace it with our spiral louvered core. The new core is welded internally, no cosmetic change and cost is the same as the bolt on kit, but you have to send us your mufflers.
Thanks for your interest!
Steve@fullsac.com
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Thanks Steve.. I like the look of the end caps better than the stock look. Let me know if you want a set of OEM 107s to work on. I'll have then sent over directly ;)
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Are the stock 2017 CVO muffler cores open all the way through or is there a restriction or plug? I have Fullsac 2"cores in my 2011 CVO Mufflers and they sound GREAT !
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Are the stock 2017 CVO muffler cores open all the way through or is there a restriction or plug? I have Fullsac 2"cores in my 2011 CVO Mufflers and they sound GREAT !
Visually it is hard to tell the difference between th3 16 and early fullsac cores and the 17 cores. I have the 2.25 cores on both my 13 and 17. 17 is quieter due to cat in head pipe, cores look the same
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I bet they sound awesome ,By chance do you have a Sound Video with the 2017 Fullsac 2.25 cores? I found a set of take off CVO 17's from a forum member and I plan to do the Re-core.
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Steve, how is it you will not sell in California, but you do SDCVO's pipes who lives in California? Just asking because I had to ship my core to Colorado then to Cali.
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Steve, how is it you will not sell in California, but you do SDCVO's pipes who lives in California? Just asking because I had to ship my core to Colorado then to Cali.
My bike is licensed and registered in Oregon with a Oregon address..
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My bike is licensed and registered in Oregon with a Oregon address..
And titled
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And titled
Also bought bike in OR and dealer sent him mufflers which Steve sent back to that dealer.
Last post-promise
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Also bought bike in OR and dealer sent him mufflers which Steve sent back to that dealer.
Last post-promise
Just wondering, They offered me the baffles if I sent my pipes when I bought my bike. But I figured they wouldn't do it since I live in Cali w/ a Cali address so I waited and ordered them and shipped them to Colorado where my brother lives.
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I would also like to hear a sound clip of the 2017 CVO Mufflers with the New Baffles in them. I need to do something with mine during the off season.
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Glad your happy with the baffles and their tone!
Progress on the new 8 valve header is moving right along. This is one of several different collector configurations that will be hitting the dyno
bolted to a new 114 CVO. From there it's a process of trial and error to see what delivers the best TQ curve. Its very possible we may end up
with two headers again. One favoring the basic stage I builds and the other for the higher power levels that we know are coming with this new 8 valve motor.
Everyone on the Fullsac team is excited to be working on HDs latest effort to raise the bar. So far its looking like they have raised it substantially with this all new powerplant.
Steve@fullsac.com
Hey Steve, would you ever do a dino comparison between your new M8 head pipes and a de-catted stock header with your inserts in the slip ons. I know allot of folks will be removing the cat and running your baffles. So wondering what the actual diff is. A builder in Toronto Canada once told me that the de catted headers actually work very well. Said the engines like that open chamber that is created once the cat is removed. Thanx.
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Hey Steve, would you ever do a dino comparison between your new M8 head pipes and a de-catted stock header with your inserts in the slip ons. I know allot of folks will be removing the cat and running your baffles. So wondering what the actual diff is. A builder in Toronto Canada once told me that the de catted headers actually work very well. Said the engines like that open chamber that is created once the cat is removed. Thanx.
We haven't cut the cat out of a stocker yet. For us its kinda pointless as the demand is for a replacement header. Most will keep the stock header unmolested and stored on a shelf should it ever be needed to complete a warranty claim. But for those who have time to play, I'm sure there is a few HP bottled up in the stock headpipe. ::)
SG
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We haven't cut the cat out of a stocker yet. For us its kinda pointless as the demand is for a replacement header. Most will keep the stock header unmolested and stored on a shelf should it ever be needed to complete a warranty claim. But for those who have time to play, I'm sure there is a few HP bottled up in the stock headpipe. ::)
SG
How is work on the replacement header coming along? Have you settled on a design yet? When do you anticipate them going into production?
Thanks.
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How is work on the replacement header coming along? Have you settled on a design yet? When do you anticipate them going into production?
Thanks.
I finalized testing a few weeks ago. We just finished the CNC programs for the primary tubes, much more difficult on this header than the 2016. Tolerances are way tighter everywhere. Working on the new billit crossover mount while waiting on another vendor for the tapered transitions required for the 2.5 muffler inlet. Holidays haven't helped, everybody has been taking time off as they should. Right after the first everyone will get their brains back on work. I think we will have something available by end of January. Just in time to try the MX header with a new TTS cam. Cole has been sending me dyno charts, he has the SE 447 cam stomped from beginning to end!
Steve@fullsac.com
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Just in time to try the MX header with a new TTS cam. Cole has been sending me dyno charts, he has the SE 447 cam stomped from beginning to end!
Steve@fullsac.com
That's exciting news! Do any of the Dyno Charts have the TTS Cam with the 107 or is it all about the 114?
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That's exciting news! Do any of the Dyno Charts have the TTS Cam with the 107 or is it all about the 114?
Cole has a 107 that he's testing with. Like me he's too cheap to buy a 114. Lol..
The last dyno chart he sent was a 107, SE 447 VS TTS 100. The peak gains were 5 HP and 7 TQ.
At 2K rpm there was a 6 FT pound gain! Looking good. :2vrolijk_21:
SG
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That's Awesome! Will you will be marketing these cams with one of your package deals?
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That's Awesome! Will you will be marketing these cams with one of your package deals?
That's the plan. Big bore kits are in the works too. Harley made it way too easy to bolt on bigger barrels.
SG
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Cole has a 107 that he's testing with. Like me he's too cheap to buy a 114. Lol..
The last dyno chart he sent was a 107, SE 447 VS TTS 100. The peak gains were 5 HP and 7 TQ.
At 2K rpm there was a 6 FT pound gain! Looking good. :2vrolijk_21:
SG
How will that TTS 100 cam Steve Cole has for the 107 do in the 114? Saw one of his dyno runs posted on another site with it in the 107, looks real nice.
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How will that TTS 100 cam Steve Cole has for the 107 do in the 114? Saw one of his dyno runs posted on another site with it in the 107, looks real nice.
If its another dyno comparison of the 447 VS the TTS 100, I would think the gains would look similar. As far as I know the 107 and 114 are the same motors with the exception of bore and stroke. The 114 head may have a few more CC in the chamber to offset the compression gain, but I think the valve sizes and ports are the same. Hopefully they learned from the last CVO motor and are keeping it simple. :2vrolijk_21:
SG
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If its another dyno comparison of the 447 VS the TTS 100, I would think the gains would look similar. As far as I know the 107 and 114 are the same motors with the exception of bore and stroke. The 114 head may have a few more CC in the chamber to offset the compression gain, but I think the valve sizes and ports are the same. Hopefully they learned from the last CVO motor and are keeping it simple. :2vrolijk_21:
SG
Steve,
Any idea when your head pipe will be available for the M8? I'm really hoping soon. There are several other options out there but I am really trying to hold off for yours.
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Steve,
Any idea when your head pipe will be available for the M8? I'm really hoping soon. There are several other options out there but I am really trying to hold off for yours.
Dave
I really appreciate your patience. We have gone through several small changes to what I thought was our finalized design in an effort to make it buildable in a production mannor. Big difference between prototypes and production. Still making adjustments to get it just right. Getting lots of pressure from our dealers and customers to make it happen. It's not getting released until it fits perfectly. Complexity on this one was was much higher than it appeared and time has gotten away from us in a big way. The only fair thing to say to you and everyone waiting, "there is no release date at this time". If you have to shop elsewhere I totally understand and regret not being able to get our product to the market sooner.
I sincerly appreciate your loyalty and support.
steve@fullsac.com
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Dave
I really appreciate your patience. We have gone through several small changes to what I thought was our finalized design in an effort to make it buildable in a production mannor. Big difference between prototypes and production. Still making adjustments to get it just right. Getting lots of pressure from our dealers and customers to make it happen. It's not getting released until it fits perfectly. Complexity on this one was was much higher than it appeared and time has gotten away from us in a big way. The only fair thing to say to you and everyone waiting, "there is no release date at this time". If you have to shop elsewhere I totally understand and regret not being able to get our product to the market sooner.
I sincerly appreciate your loyalty and support.
steve@fullsac.com
I'll wait till a Fullsac pipe is available then I may get the bike.
May sound screwed up but that Fullsac is good chit and the customer service is the best.
SBB
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Dave
I really appreciate your patience. We have gone through several small changes to what I thought was our finalized design in an effort to make it buildable in a production mannor. Big difference between prototypes and production. Still making adjustments to get it just right. Getting lots of pressure from our dealers and customers to make it happen. It's not getting released until it fits perfectly. Complexity on this one was was much higher than it appeared and time has gotten away from us in a big way. The only fair thing to say to you and everyone waiting, "there is no release date at this time". If you have to shop elsewhere I totally understand and regret not being able to get our product to the market sooner.
I sincerely appreciate your loyalty and support.
steve@fullsac.com
That's a great looking pipe Steve!
As a good friend of mine says, "The tortoise beats the hare every time". ;D
Daren
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That's a great looking pipe Steve!
As a good friend of mine says, "The tortoise beats the hare every time". ;D
Daren
Thanks Daren!
I wish I could show more detailed pictures, not quite yet. I can say this, it will have a full round crossover that
sweeps smoothly from the X collector similar to our current DX. All 304 stainless too!
Steve@fullsac.com
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Dave
I really appreciate your patience. We have gone through several small changes to what I thought was our finalized design in an effort to make it buildable in a production mannor. Big difference between prototypes and production. Still making adjustments to get it just right. Getting lots of pressure from our dealers and customers to make it happen. It's not getting released until it fits perfectly. Complexity on this one was was much higher than it appeared and time has gotten away from us in a big way. The only fair thing to say to you and everyone waiting, "there is no release date at this time". If you have to shop elsewhere I totally understand and regret not being able to get our product to the market sooner.
I sincerly appreciate your loyalty and support.
steve@fullsac.com
I'm still going to hold out for your's for a little bit more. I have run your head pipe on my 09, 13, and 15, the 13 is the one thats 138 hp and 140 torque. I have also used your head pipe on the following bikes for my wife, 2011 Street glide, 13 Street glide and 15 Road Glide special.
I like your products and your customers service.